• Ongoing coronavirus / COVID-19 discussion: how is the pandemic affecting your community, workplace, and wellness? 🦠

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Coronavirus and other pandemics

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,195
Points
50
Singapore is an incredibly dense city-country and somehow they managed to keep this in check - why? Because they PLANNED FOR IT and stuck to the Plan! Scream it from the rooftops, folks! PLANNING WORKS! PLANNING SAVES LIVES!

No more arguments against density from this - that's crazy talk

Maine is the 13th in having the most cases PER CAPITA in the country so less dense means nothing - $%^& travels fast if you are not prepared
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,596
Points
49
During a news conference Trump calls for economy to re-open by Easter.

Please note, if anyone had any idea otherwise, Trump only cares about the economy. He clearly is not interested in the health or safety of our country and its people.

If you lose your job, but keep your life is that better or worse than keeping your job and losing your life?
 

TOFB

Cyburbian
Messages
2,426
Points
29
At home, within the last half hour, approved a sign permit for a cookie shop and and urban chicken permit. work work work work work


 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,818
Points
51
I just heard (but not independently confirmed) that Mecklenburg County (NC) went to 'shelter-in-place' - all nonessential workers stay home.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,980
Points
36
I just heard (but not independently confirmed) that Mecklenburg County (NC) went to 'shelter-in-place' - all nonessential workers stay home.
Heard that too. Apparently the mandate came from the "county manager" which I don't feel is correct. I assume it's from their commissioners? Typical Mecklenburg, do what they want.
 

terraplnr

Cyburbian
Messages
2,352
Points
27
My daughter's 4th grade class has started using Zoom to hold "morning meetings". Today is their first one. I'm working at the counter in the kitchen while she's in the den a few rooms away. It's nice to hear those voices coming over the computer. All the kids seem to be having a lot of fun with the technology.

Yesterday I got a kick out of watching the 3-year-old girl across the street riding around their driveway in a Power Wheels golf cart.

I like to sit by the window in the kitchen to work and I've also noticed more teenagers out on walks with their parents than I ever have seen before.
My kids are officially on spring break this week but my 6th grader's teacher did a Zoom test run with the class last Friday, and it really cheered up my son to see his classmates' faces. I'm kinda looking forward to "spring break" being over so they'll have a bit more school-related structure like that.
 
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michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
Well, this is frustrating as hell. My oldest was outside for an hour having a Nerf Gun war with two other boys in the neighborhood in our cul-de-sac and other parents flipped the hell out, especially given my wife works at the hospital.

At times like this, kids still need to be kids and they didn’t come within 10-feet if each other. One person who I really respected until today pointed out that if their kids were young they would not let them play with other kids, and definitely would not let them play with kids who’s parents work with COVID 19 patients.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,596
Points
49
Well, this is frustrating as hell. My oldest was outside for an hour having a Nerf Gun war with two other boys in the neighborhood in our cul-de-sac and other parents flipped the hell out, especially given my wife works at the hospital.

At times like this, kids still need to be kids and they didn’t come within 10-feet if each other. One person who I really respected until today pointed out that if their kids were young they would not let them play with other kids, and definitely would not let them play with kids who’s parents work with COVID 19 patients.
I agree that normalcy is important.... but there are inherent risks in doing anything. Those parents are cautioning on the side of being VERY careful. I would certainly agree that if you were never near each other that would be one thing, but nerf wars usually involve getting close, yelling, using the same bullets, etc. I can understand why they may be concerned, not validating their concern, but understanding why they may have it.

Each of us are going to deal with this differently. It is important to realize that although you may not have the same concerns or the level of concern others have, we are all just trying to get by with our families safe. I certainly hope you wouldn't lose respect for someone who was voicing their personal concern, albeit maybe directly aimed at you.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,521
Points
69
Every planner has some demography geek within them.

As of today, the little county of San Marino has 182 confirmed cases. (162 active, 21 deaths, 4 recovered.) With a population of 33,400, that's one confirmed case for every 183 people, and one death for every 1,590 people. (The math geek notes that the umber of cases in San Marino is close to the square root of its population.)

Faroe Islands: population 49,290, confirmed cases 132. 1 : 373.

Andorra: population 76,965, confirmed cases 164. 1 : 469.

Liechtenstein: population 38,557, confirmed cases 51. 1 : 756.

The John Hopkins map is displaying county-level data for the US again. I really think that at least for the US, there's a correlation between how interconnected a community is with the outside world, and the number of cases it has. Consider this:

Tompkins County, New York (Ithaca): population 104,802, confirmed cases 18.
Broome County, New York (Binghamton): population 193,639, confirmed cases 9.
Chemung County, New York (Elmira): population 85,557, confirmed cases 3.
Chautauqua County, New York (Jamestown): population 129,046, confirmed cases 2.
 
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michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
I agree that normalcy is important.... but there are inherent risks in doing anything. Those parents are cautioning on the side of being VERY careful. I would certainly agree that if you were never near each other that would be one thing, but nerf wars usually involve getting close, yelling, using the same bullets, etc. I can understand why they may be concerned, not validating their concern, but understanding why they may have it.

Each of us are going to deal with this differently. It is important to realize that although you may not have the same concerns or the level of concern others have, we are all just trying to get by with our families safe. I certainly hope you wouldn't lose respect for someone who was voicing their personal concern, albeit maybe directly aimed at you.
I have no issue with them being concerned and I understand their position... but they are telling me that my child is not permitted to play with other kids.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,317
Points
33
I have no issue with them being concerned and I understand their position... but they are telling me that my child is not permitted to play with other kids.
There are a lot of people doing that around the world. COVID 19 is highly contagious and asymptomatic people can transmit it relatively easily. And they're only telling you that your child is not permitted to play with THEIR kids. So if you understood their position as you stated then you shouldn't be upset. I'm really not trying to sound like a jerk just trying to say that people have different ways they deal with their concerns. Don't take it personally.
 
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Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,818
Points
51
VERY GOOD RESOURCE OF INFO/DATA:

 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,980
Points
36
Still no word of a state wide shutdown here. Starting to become frustrating. They need to do something. Simply closing restaurants and other areas of possible public gathering isn't getting the point across that this is incredibly serious. Various municipalities here have taken on the initiative themselves since the Governor seems to be too much of a coward to do it. Durham went on lock down yesterday evening.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,596
Points
49
I have no issue with them being concerned and I understand their position... but they are telling me that my child is not permitted to play with other kids.
And I would argue many parents would agree with that assessment. It is a very reasonable risk assessment at this point. Kids are being shown as at a minimum carriers or transfer stations for the virus.

You personally don't mind if another kid plays with your kid, but those parents may not feel the same way. My point is that we cannot be touchy, or take offense to people who want to error on the side of safety. They are scared, and in many cases, may be concerned for themselves or someone they love who is in at risk population.
 
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luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
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Messages
12,195
Points
50
My oldest daughter is arriving to Maine from Florida tomorrow or Friday. We are quarantining her and her roommate for 2 weeks at my MIL's house. (MIL lives with us so her house is empty.)

So yeah, I am even quarantining my own kid!
 

Hawkeye66

Cyburbian
Messages
612
Points
21
Singapore is an incredibly dense city-country and somehow they managed to keep this in check - why? Because they PLANNED FOR IT and stuck to the Plan! Scream it from the rooftops, folks! PLANNING WORKS! PLANNING SAVES LIVES!

No more arguments against density from this - that's crazy talk

Maine is the 13th in having the most cases PER CAPITA in the country so less dense means nothing - $%^& travels fast if you are not prepared
It works because the Eastern societies also have a strong sense of civic duty (and often more authoritarian governments). The West has no such traditions. You are right, its not density in and of itself. Its density combined with the Western ethos...for better or worse.
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,195
Points
50
It works because the Eastern societies also have a strong sense of civic duty (and often more authoritarian governments). The West has no such traditions. You are right, its not density in and of itself. Its density combined with the Western ethos...for better or worse.
Also, the post Cold War psyche in America - I listened to this guy on Fresh Air this morning and it was fascinating - highly recommend for everyone to give a listen
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
6,317
Points
36
I have no issue with them being concerned and I understand their position... but they are telling me that my child is not permitted to play with other kids.
I hope you can forgive this. They’re doing what they think is best for their kids.

Your son’s feelings are hurt, and yours are, too. It’s hard to explain to him why this happened, but I know you’ll do your best.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
There are a lot of people doing that around the world. COVID 19 is highly contagious and asymptomatic people can transmit it relatively easily. And they're only telling you that your child is not permitted to play with THEIR kids. So if you understood their position as you stated then you shouldn't be upset. I'm really not trying to sound like a jerk just trying to say that people have different ways they deal with their concerns. Don't take it personally.
And I would argue many parents would agree with that assessment. It is a very reasonable risk assessment at this point. Kids are being shown as at a minimum carriers or transfer stations for the virus.

You personally don't mind if another kid plays with your kid, but those parents may not feel the same way. My point is that we cannot be touchy, or take offense to people who want to error on the side of safety. They are scared, and in many cases, may be concerned for themselves or someone they love who is in at risk population.
I guess it would help if there was additional context. My oldest (5th grade) and two of his neighborhood buddies (both in 5th grade as well) were playing in the cul-de-sac. My neighbor's daughter (2nd grade) flipped out because she was not able to go out with them. My 2nd grader and my Kindergartner also stayed in side and were not able to go out. She posted on the neighborhood facebook page that my kids are not permitted to play with any other kids, because it makes her kid angry because she will not let her kid join in. I posted the recommendations from the CDC regarding the topic and it made her angry and told her that it is ok for her to keep her kids away from mine if she chose, however for my kids, I will follow the CDC recommendations.

I hope you can forgive this. They’re doing what they think is best for their kids.

Your son’s feelings are hurt, and yours are, too. It’s hard to explain to him why this happened, but I know you’ll do your best.
My son's feelings are not hurt and frankly, if people don't want their kids playing with my kids and I am not going to tell them how to raise their kids. But I am not going to let them change how I raise mine. I will continue to follow the recommendations of the experts at the CDC... not the "desperate housewives" of my neighborhood.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,350
Points
43
Singapore is an incredibly dense city-country and somehow they managed to keep this in check - why? Because they PLANNED FOR IT and stuck to the Plan! Scream it from the rooftops, folks! PLANNING WORKS! PLANNING SAVES LIVES!

No more arguments against density from this - that's crazy talk

Maine is the 13th in having the most cases PER CAPITA in the country so less dense means nothing - $%^& travels fast if you are not prepared
It works because the Eastern societies also have a strong sense of civic duty (and often more authoritarian governments). The West has no such traditions. You are right, its not density in and of itself. Its density combined with the Western ethos...for better or worse.

My neighbor is an epidemiologist and MD with a bunch of letters after his name and specialties in immunizations and community spread. He works for a local health system and teaches at my alma mater. Yesterday he gave a Zoom for the people in the neighborhood taking questions. He spent a few years in Korea and addressed how things are in Korea and Singapore specifically when that came up. He'd probably say that @Hawkeye66 is 100% correct - in places like Korea and Singapore, there is a very high level of trust in the government and the technical/scientific community and when they tell their populations to do something, they jump to it and do it with gusto. and sort of shun those that don't. Korea has the added benefit of having literally 0 barrier to seeing a doctor. If you walk into a hospital or clinic anytime of day, with or without an appointment and want to see a doctor, you can.

I found his Zoom talk to be very informative and level-headed and while he didn't really have any good news (he's actually still working on some CDC task forces dealing with this), it was still sort of reassuring. He's trying to figure out how to post up the link to the recording and once he figures that out, I'll share it. He's actually been doing a series of these Zoom presentations for different audiences over the past couple weeks. If he does another one, I'll see if I can share that link. Here's his bio. I always take it as a good sign when I see that he still makes time to get outside for a run or to do some yard work and isn't totally hunkering down in his basement.
 

Whose Yur Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
11,250
Points
38
A very, quiet, subdued day. They mayor of the largest city put in another series of restrictions. This may have something to do with it.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,240
Points
71
You know what helps prevent disease? Peanut butter filled pretzels. Don't believe me? I'm eating them now and I'm not sick.
You know what else helps? Drinking Old Style brand beer. see, I'm not sick...
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,521
Points
69
You know what else helps? Drinking Old Style brand beer. see, I'm not sick.
I'm trying to practice good work-at-home habits. Get dressed, have a dedicated work area in a separate room, no TV, keep in touch with other co-workers, and so on. Since I can't drink at work, I'd feel really guilty if I was downing a Kolsch during timesheet hours.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
You know what else helps? Drinking Old Style brand beer. see, I'm not sick...
Ahhh... that might be a sign that you are.

Sounds like several counties in my state will be issuing stay at home orders this week, including mine. I am not sure how things will change for my office moving forward. For other states that have stay at home orders, has this also put a stop to construction activities (either home, commercial, or infrastructure...)
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,818
Points
51
^^^3 examples in this town


A building be renovated for a Taproom - (bad timing I know) he has had a few of his subs close down, but still working. This guy using a Charlotte based GC

Taco Bell rebuild - everybody's working, trying to finish up. My associate in the office told me the County Bldg. Insp. deemed this an essential business.

Utility replacement / Streetscape project downtown - Charlotte based GC, still working on normal schedule.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,980
Points
36
Governor won't commit to a state wide stay at home order. He said there's "more orders to come" but stopped short at saying it'll be a complete state wide mandate. Playing the Trump card. Forcing localities to make the decision he doesn't want to make.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,350
Points
43
Sounds like several counties in my state will be issuing stay at home orders this week, including mine. I am not sure how things will change for my office moving forward. For other states that have stay at home orders, has this also put a stop to construction activities (either home, commercial, or infrastructure...)
There is a lot of residential construction going on in my neighborhood and I've noticed that those crews have sort of disappeared since Monday. Some of them seem to have one or two people still working, but other than that it's pretty quiet on that front. The road/sidewalk/sewer project on one side of our neighborhood and in our downtown has stopped. The two big downtown commercial/residential projects appear to have stopped completely. The only thing around here that appears to be ongoing is the crew from the power company trimming trees. They've been working six days a week since about the start of February it seems. I imagine they are defined as "critical infrastructure" per the governor's order.
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
6,317
Points
36
Ahhh... that might be a sign that you are.

Sounds like several counties in my state will be issuing stay at home orders this week, including mine. I am not sure how things will change for my office moving forward. For other states that have stay at home orders, has this also put a stop to construction activities (either home, commercial, or infrastructure...)
I really don’t know because I’m sheltering and working at home. One contractor told me that they followed orders, closed their physical office but are still going to job sites. Another told me that local officials are shutting them down and sending them home. They can’t get supplies they need because suppliers shut down.
 

Salmissra

Cyburbian
Messages
5,938
Points
30
I am getting confusing info from my department head.

Go with the directive in the county you reside in. OK, so stay at home until April 3rd.

The County order for where I work is similar but goes to April 7th. Agency says all of us are essential, but the owners of our building have locked up. I can get a letter saying I'm essential if I want or need to go to the office. OK, so stay at home until April 7th unless I really need to go in.

I have no need or desire to go to the office.

However, Big Boss thinks a project that was put on hold should be activated. It requires at least two people be in the office, for a while if not a couple of days. Rather than send out an email with basic info, she would rather have people in the office billing time to a project that is already close to broke. So I have a call with my boss to clarify, state my objections, and then get told to do it anyway.

I want hazard pay for this.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,818
Points
51
Governor won't commit to a state wide stay at home order. He said there's "more orders to come" but stopped short at saying it'll be a complete state wide mandate. Playing the Trump card. Forcing localities to make the decision he doesn't want to make.

He's probably a little gun-shy right now after he closed bars & restaurants, & then Lt. Gov. whined about it (to make it an election issue) last week.

He closed down barber, salons, sweepstakes and more this week (effective tonight), so maybe he has a plan to shut things down in steps.

He'll probably shut everything else down next week. Several locals are already dong it so its just a matter of time.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,317
Points
33
The builders here are still going pretty strong. Our inspectors are still working but wearing gloves and not going into houses if there are others in there. They will wait for them to exit. In talking with local real estate folks, both commercial and residential they aren't seeing much slowdown at all and don't even expect prices to dip much unless this goes on for an extended period of time. Contracts are still being written which is good news in my opinion.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,980
Points
36
Had to move plat reviews to mail in only. Not having anyone come in this office to drop off a single thing. Too bad.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,521
Points
69
The builders here are still going pretty strong. Our inspectors are still working but wearing gloves and not going into houses if there are others in there. They will wait for them to exit. In talking with local real estate folks, both commercial and residential they aren't seeing much slowdown at all and don't even expect prices to dip much unless this goes on for an extended period of time. Contracts are still being written which is good news in my opinion.
Same thing here. Building code enforcement is considered "essential" in NYS, but all the inspectors are now working from home. The closest thing I can see to planners being essential -- and this is a stretch -- is:

9. Construction including
  • skilled trades such as electricians, plumbers
  • other related construction firms and professionals for essential infrastructure or for emergency repair and safety purposes
The Indian message board spammers haven't stopped, though. Had one register early this morning, but their post got caught in the spam filter -- "WHAT DO WOMEN REALLY WANT FROM MEN". Sri Lanka, actually, but close enough. Banhammer and reported to Stop Forum Spam.
 

Hawkeye66

Cyburbian
Messages
612
Points
21
I have turned my attention to considering the city's finances going forward. Sales tax receipts will fall way down. I also expect Road Use Tax (Gas tax) to go down. Its hard to quantify both at this point and we will have to wait for the state to give us some indication. Finally, property tax payment due date was pushed back 3 months. In Iowa that is the core source of local government funding. That will really hit us if it goes down long. I had the departments stop all non essential purchases for now.

As mentioned above, if we go to a stay at home we will have to look at who is "essential" and who is not as defined by our state. If it goes on long we may have to furlough the "non essential" so they can collect unemployment. We will sure get outside pressure to not pay them as well.
 

ChairmanMeow

Cyburbian
Messages
205
Points
7
My oldest daughter is arriving to Maine from Florida tomorrow or Friday. We are quarantining her and her roommate for 2 weeks at my MIL's house. (MIL lives with us so her house is empty.)

So yeah, I am even quarantining my own kid!
I have relatives who recently did that when their 20 y.o. arrived after driving back from school in New Orleans. He's been relegated to the basement. In all fairness, it's a pretty nice basement so I don't feel too bad for him.
 
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