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Health 🏥 Coronavirus and other pandemics

JNA

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flat,750x,075,f-pad,750x1000,f8f8f8.jpg
 

Hink

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Just so we are all on the same page... other countries aren't scared to approved the vaccines even for kids... the FDA needs to move along. Kids under 12 that are being forced to go to school without masks are going to be a HUGE problem quickly. Add a late RSV season due to the masks we used to be okay wearing, and kids are in really ugly shape this fall. I am worried.



The European Medicines Agency, the European Union’s main drug regulator, on Friday authorized the use of Moderna’s Covid vaccine for children age 12 and older, clearing the way for final approval by the bloc.

The agency approved the vaccine for those older than age 18 in January. The vaccine is also licensed for those 18 and older in the United States, Canada and Britain.

The protocol for children will be the same as for adults — two shots four weeks apart — the regulator said. Sore arms, headache and fatigue were the side effects most commonly reported among teenagers receiving the vaccine, it said, similarly to adults.

The agency’s recommendation will go to the European Commission, the bloc’s administrative arm, for a final approval. Deciding if and when to begin using the vaccine on children is up to the E.U.’s 27 national governments.

Until now, the only vaccine approved for those 12- to 17-years-old in Europe and North America has been the one from Pfizer-BioNTech. The bloc’s drug regulator recommended it for children in late May, and the European Commission swiftly approved it. More than a dozen E.U. countries have since begun vaccinating children.
 

jsk1983

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Just so we are all on the same page... other countries aren't scared to approved the vaccines even for kids... the FDA needs to move along. Kids under 12 that are being forced to go to school without masks are going to be a HUGE problem quickly. Add a late RSV season due to the masks we used to be okay wearing, and kids are in really ugly shape this fall. I am worried.


Is it approved for under 12s anywhere? This just seems to say its been recently approved for over 12s... Also I am curious as to why its taking so long to be approved for children.
 

Hink

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Is it approved for under 12s anywhere? This just seems to say its been recently approved for over 12s... Also I am curious as to why its taking so long to be approved for children.
It isn't yet. The FDA though hasn't officially approved it for adults, let alone kids. My point is that other countries are now officially approving it for children.

People continue to the use the false logic that since the FDA hasn't approved it yet, we shouldn't trust it. We should trust it, and we should be requiring it, so we are all protected, especially our children. The data shows pretty clear evidence that the mRna vaccines are some of the most effective and safest vaccines ever made.

Can you imagine our country with polio, if the greatest generation were as selfish as our current society is?
 

Whose Yur Planner

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It isn't yet. The FDA though hasn't officially approved it for adults, let alone kids. My point is that other countries are now officially approving it for children.

People continue to the use the false logic that since the FDA hasn't approved it yet, we shouldn't trust it. We should trust it, and we should be requiring it, so we are all protected, especially our children. The data shows pretty clear evidence that the mRna vaccines are some of the most effective and safest vaccines ever made.

Can you imagine our country with polio, if the greatest generation were as selfish as our current society is?
That issue hits close to home for me. My birth mother had polio when she was a kid. She got over it but it came back to haunt her when she got older.

In the same vein, my dad had scarlet fever when he was a kid. It's a disease we rarely hear of know because they developed a vaccine for it.
 

Hink

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It's a disease we rarely hear of know because they developed a vaccine for it.
I'll finish that sentence for you... "and people got it in mass to protect the country from the virus and its negative impact".

What is amazing to me is that in just a couple generations we can't get over 50% of our country to do something because they are too politicized, too stupid, or too selfish to do what is objectively the right thing.

My uncle has polio. He was one of the last people to get it in late 1940's. He walks with a cane and walker. He will be the first to tell you the impacts that disease has had on him for his entire life.

We may think COVID is easy to get over, but we don't know the long-term impacts of it. I certainly don't want my kids living with a disease that they don't have to, because some people are so worried about their freedom being lost by having to wear a mask in public spaces. :mad::cursing:
 

WSU MUP Student

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I saw rampant polio when I was in Ethiopia years ago. It's a horrible thing and made me appreciate vaccines so much more.
 

Whose Yur Planner

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I'll finish that sentence for you... "and people got it in mass to protect the country from the virus and its negative impact".

What is amazing to me is that in just a couple generations we can't get over 50% of our country to do something because they are too politicized, too stupid, or too selfish to do what is objectively the right thing.

My uncle has polio. He was one of the last people to get it in late 1940's. He walks with a cane and walker. He will be the first to tell you the impacts that disease has had on him for his entire life.

We may think COVID is easy to get over, but we don't know the long-term impacts of it. I certainly don't want my kids living with a disease that they don't have to, because some people are so worried about their freedom being lost by having to wear a mask in public spaces. :mad::cursing:
My birth mom developed post polio syndrome. She had to have a trachea tube inserted into her throat. She had it for the rest of her life, 30 + years.
 

michaelskis

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My question is why hasn't the FDA given full approval for the vaccines yet? And now they are looking to get additional emergency authorization for the booster shot?

There is talk locally about mandates, incentives, or regular testing for those who are not vaccinated. I can't bring myself to support a mandate until the FDA gives full approval.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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My question is why hasn't the FDA given full approval for the vaccines yet? And now they are looking to get additional emergency authorization for the booster shot?

There is talk locally about mandates, incentives, or regular testing for those who are not vaccinated. I can't bring myself to support a mandate until the FDA gives full approval.
FDA giving full approval means nothing at this point. It really doesn't.

With that said I will quote my wife:

"We are so concerned about FDA approval for the vaccine, but not one person has asked if any of the treatments for COVID are FDA approved, or any other other life saving treatments we do everyday that save people's lives are FDA approved or not".

I think it is a strawman argument at this point. FDA approval should have happened already, but there is a lot of red tape with that. They already gave the EUA for the booster. I would like to see them just move ahead with the 5-12 already, so we can get the group that needs the vaccine the most at this point. The group we are sending back to school without protection, and regulating school's ability to protect them from themselves. Because parent's think they know better than medical professionals....

Once we get FDA approval, we should all expect to have a mandate to get the vaccine or have to be tested, etc. for the foreseeable future. We as a country cannot be trusted sadly to do the right thing anymore. Our country is incapable of understanding or believing facts... which makes a lot of this much harder. We like to pretend there are two sides to facts... and that isn't how facts work.
 

michaelskis

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FDA giving full approval means nothing at this point. It really doesn't.

With that said I will quote my wife:

"We are so concerned about FDA approval for the vaccine, but not one person has asked if any of the treatments for COVID are FDA approved, or any other other life saving treatments we do everyday that save people's lives are FDA approved or not".

I think it is a strawman argument at this point. FDA approval should have happened already, but there is a lot of red tape with that. They already gave the EUA for the booster. I would like to see them just move ahead with the 5-12 already, so we can get the group that needs the vaccine the most at this point. The group we are sending back to school without protection, and regulating school's ability to protect them from themselves. Because parent's think they know better than medical professionals....

Once we get FDA approval, we should all expect to have a mandate to get the vaccine or have to be tested, etc. for the foreseeable future. We as a country cannot be trusted sadly to do the right thing anymore. Our country is incapable of understanding or believing facts... which makes a lot of this much harder. We like to pretend there are two sides to facts... and that isn't how facts work.
Pardon my brashness, but that is a load of crap and you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You want the facts, here you go:

The short of it, the federal government and pharmaceutical companies have additional legal protections from lawsuits brought about by those who do experience symptoms for treatments that are under Emergency Use Authorizations. Those protections go away with full FDA approval. So for those people who died because of the blood clot situation from the Moderna vaccine to those who developed other symptoms, (such as the Bells Palsy that my wife is still dealing with and the doctors are now telling her that she will be lucky if she gets 90% movement back and the effects should be considered permanent and often breaks down in tears, won't participate in family photos, and refuses to smile in public), they have ZERO legal recourse. We have checked with 3 lawyers about this, in an attempt to recoup some of the costs associated with the attempted treatments and testing. Everyone told us the same thing. EUA prevents responsibility for unintended side effects.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Pardon my brashness, but that is a load of crap and you don't know what the hell you are talking about.

You want the facts, here you go:

The short of it, the federal government and pharmaceutical companies have additional legal protections from lawsuits brought about by those who do experience symptoms for treatments that are under Emergency Use Authorizations. Those protections go away with full FDA approval. So for those people who died because of the blood clot situation from the Moderna vaccine to those who developed other symptoms, (such as the Bells Palsy that my wife is still dealing with and the doctors are now telling her that she will be lucky if she gets 90% movement back and the effects should be considered permanent and often breaks down in tears, won't participate in family photos, and refuses to smile in public), they have ZERO legal recourse. We have checked with 3 lawyers about this, in an attempt to recoup some of the costs associated with the attempted treatments and testing. Everyone told us the same thing. EUA prevents responsibility for unintended side effects.
I appreciate your anger, but unfortunately I do know A LOT about what I am talking about. At least in terms of the actual virus, vaccine, and how people are treated. I also may know someone who probably knows more than most people on earth about it too. And she talks to me when I am good.

EUA protects the makers from legal action prematurely, and does so because people like to sue in this country. Tort reform is real and protects legal challenges at that level. Being able to sue, and being able to show any actual relationships between issue are two different things. FDA approval won't change that.

But I will leave it here, as you certainly have a right to believe what you wish and clearly have reasons for your beliefs since your wife has been impacted negatively and you wish to pursue legal action against moderna. I certainly wish you and your wife nothing but the best and I am very sorry you are having to deal with that situation.
 

luckless pedestrian

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Our son's school gratefully is masking this fall K-12th grade - he's fully vaccinated as we are but the breakthrough cases in Maine are going up daily

Our director asked us to mask at work as she has little kids and others do in this building that obviously are not vaccinated. It is likely Maine will go back to masking indoors.

We do have unvaccinated staff members which is mind boggling.

Portland just did a requirement for employees to be vaccinated and I wish we would do it too.
 

WSU MUP Student

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Last night our district announced that all students K-8 will be masked during all indoor activities to start the year until further notice. Students grades 9-12 will be masked as long as the county is in "Substantial" or "High" transmission level (the same goes for staff in those particular schools). It sounds like they are planning to keep the kids in K-8 masked regardless of transmission levels at least until vaccines are available for younger children.

I imagine more of the public schools in the area will announce similar policies over the course of the next couple weeks as most start the school year the week of the 30th or the next week after that.

FWIW, I saw a girl in a uniform from one of the local private schools getting into a car while I was out on a run this morning (I didn't even know any of them had already started back up yet). This time last year the newspapers had stories detailing which private schools were doing what but I haven't seen anything this time around. I'd be curious to know what the policy is at the large local private schools.
 

michaelskis

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I appreciate your anger, but unfortunately I do know A LOT about what I am talking about. At least in terms of the actual virus, vaccine, and how people are treated. I also may know someone who probably knows more than most people on earth about it too. And she talks to me when I am good.

EUA protects the makers from legal action prematurely, and does so because people like to sue in this country. Tort reform is real and protects legal challenges at that level. Being able to sue, and being able to show any actual relationships between issue are two different things. FDA approval won't change that.

But I will leave it here, as you certainly have a right to believe what you wish and clearly have reasons for your beliefs since your wife has been impacted negatively and you wish to pursue legal action against moderna. I certainly wish you and your wife nothing but the best and I am very sorry you are having to deal with that situation.
I took time to respond as my first responses would have gotten me ban from the site. Hey, if you know A LOT about the actual virus, that's awesome. Here is your trophy. :trophy:

Few points of clarification, she got the Pizer version and there is increasing documentation that there is correlation and causation. Some studies are showing that the cases of hospitalizations in January and February due do facial paralysis were 5 times greater than the same time period last year, and those patients were COVID negative. However I think everyone agrees that it is an extremely rare side effect, but it still matters to those who experience it and their loved ones.

I am not a lawyer, and that is why I spoke with one, then got a second, and a third opinion. They all said the same thing... we are screwed because of the EUA protections.

I am not against people getting the vaccine if they choose do to so. I got one despite what happened to my wife and she strongly encouraged me getting one. The same with my oldest who we gave the choice to. But that was because we felt that the risk of side effects was low enough. But I can't support mandating something that people have zero protections against. But hey, if you want to mandate something that "may" have caused the death of 6,789 and countless others having long lasting side effects without any legal recourse... that is on you.

(but I am sure you won't click on the links because you know A LOT.)
 

Hink

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I took time to respond as my first responses would have gotten me ban from the site. Hey, if you know A LOT about the actual virus, that's awesome. Here is your trophy. :trophy:

Few points of clarification, she got the Pizer version and there is increasing documentation that there is correlation and causation. Some studies are showing that the cases of hospitalizations in January and February due do facial paralysis were 5 times greater than the same time period last year, and those patients were COVID negative. However I think everyone agrees that it is an extremely rare side effect, but it still matters to those who experience it and their loved ones.

I am not a lawyer, and that is why I spoke with one, then got a second, and a third opinion. They all said the same thing... we are screwed because of the EUA protections.

I am not against people getting the vaccine if they choose do to so. I got one despite what happened to my wife and she strongly encouraged me getting one. The same with my oldest who we gave the choice to. But that was because we felt that the risk of side effects was low enough. But I can't support mandating something that people have zero protections against. But hey, if you want to mandate something that "may" have caused the death of 6,789 and countless others having long lasting side effects without any legal recourse... that is on you.

(but I am sure you won't click on the links because you know A LOT.)
I think we will just move on, as you and I likely will not see eye to eye on this. I appreciate your measured response, as I am sure it is not easy in your situation.
 

Super Amputee Cat

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It looks like July 5th was the last day of decline in the 7-Day average before it started spiking again. The 7-day moving average was just 10,608 on that day. (In fact, it was the lowest number since the very early days of the pandemic). Of course, the Delta Variant was already swirling around in many parts of the country but the overall 7-Day average had been steadily declining since a mini-spike in mid-April.

But the "party" wouldn't last long. By July 16th the average had more than tripled and now it's averaging 140,000 cases per day. Unfortunately, it's well on it's way to being the highest levels ever.


New Cases Graph 2021-08-16.png
 
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Hink

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Can you imagine our country shutting down again... let alone for one case? It is amazing to me how serious other countries take this virus.

 

kjel

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I took time to respond as my first responses would have gotten me ban from the site. Hey, if you know A LOT about the actual virus, that's awesome. Here is your trophy. :trophy:

Few points of clarification, she got the Pizer version and there is increasing documentation that there is correlation and causation. Some studies are showing that the cases of hospitalizations in January and February due do facial paralysis were 5 times greater than the same time period last year, and those patients were COVID negative. However I think everyone agrees that it is an extremely rare side effect, but it still matters to those who experience it and their loved ones.

I am not a lawyer, and that is why I spoke with one, then got a second, and a third opinion. They all said the same thing... we are screwed because of the EUA protections.

I am not against people getting the vaccine if they choose do to so. I got one despite what happened to my wife and she strongly encouraged me getting one. The same with my oldest who we gave the choice to. But that was because we felt that the risk of side effects was low enough. But I can't support mandating something that people have zero protections against. But hey, if you want to mandate something that "may" have caused the death of 6,789 and countless others having long lasting side effects without any legal recourse... that is on you.

(but I am sure you won't click on the links because you know A LOT.)
VAERS allows for self reporting and is unverified data.
 

michaelskis

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VAERS allows for self reporting and is unverified data.
We have coordinated with the neurologist and her information was entered into the system. He also said that he had two other cases with the exact same thing. Someone followed up on the VARES case with a big list of additional questions about 3 weeks after it was entered.
 

kjel

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We have coordinated with the neurologist and her information was entered into the system. He also said that he had two other cases with the exact same thing. Someone followed up on the VARES case with a big list of additional questions about 3 weeks after it was entered.
I am not being dismissive of your wife and her experience. It is valid and should absolutely been reported and warrants follow up. The key thing here is that her physician is required by law to report in to VAERS and received follow up questions. The follow up information the physician provides is not included in VAERS data.

The VAERS website is pretty clear about what it is and isn't:

"VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to the system. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. In large part, reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind."
 

luckless pedestrian

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Back to masking at city hall on Monday and zoom meetings - though boards and committees still meet in person but will be masked.

I am glad as we have a lot of employees with little kids who are not obviously vaccinated

I often have those symptoms of the mild COVID that people get when they are fully vaccinated on a regular day - congestion etc so I feel better masking up around my co workers with kids
 

Maister

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We're back to mandatory masks at city hall. Curiously, our school district seems to be bucking the prevailing trend by NOT having a mask mandate. I confess the notion of leadership at any level failing to adopt this simple preventive measure that demonstrably improves public health defies my understanding. What virtue is greater to a community than looking out for one another? There really is no such thing as a 'community' without it.
 

Gedunker

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It hasn't been mandated, but everybody on our floor is back to wearing masks all day in the office. Both of my staff have young kids, so I'm cool with it.

I really do think the concept of community is being sabotaged by some selfish folks.
 

Salmissra

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6,376
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No change to our building masking - required in public spaces, but not in your individual offices. We are in an office complex with 4 buildings, and the rules are the same in all buildings.

Signs on the lobby doors say masks are required. However, I don't know who is enforcing it.
 

Planit

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Looks like our 3:00 meeting today will be talking about closing city hall to the public and/or mask mandates. Film @ 11:00.


Here's a little tidbit too:
1629480985481.png
 

Planit

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...and DeSatan's Board of Education has now sent orders to Broward (Ft. Lauderdale) & Alachua (Gainesville) counties to lift their mask mandates or start being fined.

 

MD Planner

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That graphic is interesting but I'm not sure of its accuracy. I mean take South Carolina for example. Yes, the state voted R in the presidential election but we don't even claim a party when we register to vote. And a lot of the COVID cases and deaths here are among the non-vaccinated minority communities who I would imagine vote D most of the time. Maybe it's just the title of the graphic that is a little misleading.
 

Planit

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Mask mandate in all public buildings (except alone in your own office or vehicle) starting Monday. Reevaluate next week and if necessary we'll go to 'our' phase 2 which will be if you have been vaccinated and get COVID, you'll get up to 2 weeks paid leave; if you haven't been vaccinated then you have to use your accrued sick time.
 

Maister

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We're back to mandatory masks at city hall. Curiously, our school district seems to be bucking the prevailing trend by NOT having a mask mandate. I confess the notion of leadership at any level failing to adopt this simple preventive measure that demonstrably improves public health defies my understanding. What virtue is greater to a community than looking out for one another? There really is no such thing as a 'community' without it.
The School Superintendent made an announcement this afternoon they'd be requiring ALL students to wear masks. I note his announcement lifted at least one passage verbatim taken directly from the email Mrs. Maister and I sent to the school board imploring them to institute the mandate.
 

michaelskis

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We have mask mandates for the entire county and all the local schools are requiring them. There is also testing requirements that are being discussed for City Staff that is not vaccinated. I found out about a City staff member that is vaccinated, and has underling health conditions, and he gets tested every day on his way into work. He is terrified of a break through case. The unfortunate thing is his position does not really let him work remotely.

But the break through cases makes me wonder if we will get to a point where everyone will be tested.


The other question is in regards to those who are vaccinated, if places will also require they get the booster shot as well.
 

Super Amputee Cat

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Looks like our 3:00 meeting today will be talking about closing city hall to the public and/or mask mandates. Film @ 11:00.


Here's a little tidbit too:
View attachment 54919
I'm surprised the number aren't even more stark actually. Because unvaccinated people in red states are spreading the virus into the blue states like wildfire. I'm sure a lot of breakthrough infections are being caused by antivax Superpreaders.
 

JNA

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Just one local hospital's numbers posted yesterday

46 COVID patients are in the ICU
44 of those are not vaccinated
27 of those are on ventilators
 

Hink

OH....IO
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All hospitals near us are completely full. No admits are being taken within a 25 minute drive.

We are going to soon see management of beds, meaning no more elective surgeries again. Which means a large group those who work in a hospital are going to not be able to make money, because of the selfishness of those who won't get vaccinated. This isn't just shooting yourself in the foot, it is refusing care and hobbling around. We are just making it worse.... again....

98% so far at the hospitals around us of those who are coming in with COVID. The breakthrough cases, which so many are focusing on, are really quite minimal when you look at the large sample size of people who have received at least one shot.

My booster will be scheduled the second I can (around 8 months from my last would be Oct). My wife will get it the first day it is available as the Israeli studies are showing more like 5 months...
 

michaelskis

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All hospitals near us are completely full. No admits are being taken within a 25 minute drive.

We are going to soon see management of beds, meaning no more elective surgeries again. Which means a large group those who work in a hospital are going to not be able to make money, because of the selfishness of those who won't get vaccinated. This isn't just shooting yourself in the foot, it is refusing care and hobbling around. We are just making it worse.... again....

98% so far at the hospitals around us of those who are coming in with COVID. The breakthrough cases, which so many are focusing on, are really quite minimal when you look at the large sample size of people who have received at least one shot.

My booster will be scheduled the second I can (around 8 months from my last would be Oct). My wife will get it the first day it is available as the Israeli studies are showing more like 5 months...
Talking with the wife over the weekend, and she said the same thing about our local hospitals. She is going to have to start circulating onto "The Floor" because they are dropping elective surgeries to open up beds for COVID patients. She also said that there is an increase in the number of hospitalizations that are break-through cases here.

It also sounds like the FDA will grant full approval for Pfizer today. It would be great if they can also authorize it for younger kids. I have two that started in-person school (with masks) this morning.
 

michaelskis

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It's about time! There are a couple staff members that have indicated that this is the reason that they have not gotten it. I am going to give them a heads up in hopes that they will.


CNN said:
The US Food and Drug Administration on Monday granted full approval to the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older. This is the first coronavirus vaccine approved by the FDA, and is expected to open the door to more vaccine mandates.

The Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine has been authorized for emergency use in the United States since mid-December for people age 16 and older. In May, the authorization was extended to those 12 and older.

Out of more than 170 million people in the United States fully vaccinated against Covid-19, more than 92 million have received the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.


FOX News said:
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) on Monday granted full approval to Pfizer's COVID-19 vaccine for individuals 16 years and older.

"The FDA’s approval of this vaccine is a milestone as we continue to battle the COVID-19 pandemic," Acting FDA Commissioner Janet Woodcock said in a statement issued Monday. "While this and other vaccines have met the FDA’s rigorous, scientific standards for emergency use authorization, as the first FDA-approved COVID-19 vaccine, the public can be very confident that this vaccine meets the high standards for safety, effectiveness, and manufacturing quality the FDA requires of an approved product."

COVID-19 vaccines developed by Pfizer, Moderna and Johnson & Johnson have all previously been granted emergency use authorization (EUA) after meeting the FDA's safety and efficacy requirements. The full licensure announced Monday stems from a so-called biologics license application, building on previously-submitted pre-clinical and clinical data, information relating to the manufacturing process, vaccine quality data and site inspections.

I do wonder however why it is not 12 and older as the Emergency Use Authorization indicated...
 

MD Planner

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Maybe I'm too cynical, but I always think stuff like that would make a fantastic campaign billboard for the opposition (photoshopped or not).
I get what you're saying but those are real dead bodies there. At least I'm assuming they are. I know you can't tell who they are but using images like that for any sort of political purpose just rubs me the wrong way.
 

Big Owl

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My county's vaccination rate is around 45%. I was told that the vaccination rate of the staff at one of the two regional hospital facility located in my county is less than 40%. I find that fascinating but not surprising as our public safety employees here have a lower vaccination rate than the other departments.
 

Doohickie

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I get what you're saying but those are real dead bodies there. At least I'm assuming they are. I know you can't tell who they are but using images like that for any sort of political purpose just rubs me the wrong way.
As a Texas resident, these dead bodies lie, to a large extent, on the decisions made by Abbott. He's treated this as an economic situation and not a health crisis from the onset. It's not like early on in NYC when the pandemic first swelled in the U.S. and officials were caught off guard. Excess deaths in Texas are due to not only inaction at the state level, but by the governor actively banning local authorities from taking appropriate measures to limit the spread of the virus. School districts and government bodies are banned from mandating masks, for instance.

On a moral level, the course taken by Abbott is reprehensible and I firmly believe he will land in a special ring of hell for what he's done during the pandemic.
 
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