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Curiosity?

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,699
Points
24
Budgie said:
Keep in mind that an improvement to one is a deterioration to another.

Understood, but if things are broken, like our new digital voting machines, an attempt must be made to try and make improvements :)
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,463
Points
25
You want an abortion, fine its your body, do what you want.

Death penalty, you killed some innocent person, and have no regrets, fine give 'em the chair or get out the firing squad.

What about drugs? Legalize them and stop wasting money on the so called "war on drugs"

Church and state, keep them seperate.

"Pulling the plug", hey if they want to die, then let them. They would have died naturally if you didn't have them hooked up to that machine.

Rainbow marriages, who cares, charge them the marriage license fee.

1st and 2nd ammendment, quit f-ing with them.

Constitution, quit f-ing with it.

Government, stay out of my business. :eek:|
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
30,632
Points
74
Budgie said:
Which "fiscally conservatives beliefs" are you alluding to?
For my own rep I'd best not elaborate... :-0
 

ebeech121

Cyburbian
Messages
83
Points
4
Duke Of Dystopia said:
Are most of the people who post here liberal/Democrat/left-wing/left-of-the-moderates?

There, I reread it!


1) Why would you ask the question if you don't care?

You still misread it. You said that I missed the point or whatever. I mentioned 4 leanings plus ONE party. I don't care what PARTY someone belongs to. I only mentioned it for those who identify with it.

I really don't want to read the rest of your postings since you have missed the point in my first reponse.

This thread has gotten way off topic- which was just a general curiosity sparked by several posts with very left-wing opinions. As I do not consider myself very left-wing, I wanted to know who did, so I wouldn't offend him or her and to know if I would be offended by something someone said.

That's all.
 

ebeech121

Cyburbian
Messages
83
Points
4
Duke Of Dystopia said:
Are most of the people who post here liberal/Democrat/left-wing/left-of-the-moderates?

There, I reread it!


1) Why would you ask the question if you don't care?
2) You asked people to self identify, more or less. My proof is everybody answered that way. I only stated that I found that irelevent, as those of us who have been around a while, know where others lean. My point is that self identification up front obfuscates the real point of issues rather than helping.
3) Its ok that you didn't serve. The pledge is a good start, I even agree, "one nation, under Gods". But to take things further, I will now ask you a new question.

Since you didn't serve you feel the need to turn a blind eye to the enemies of this nation if they are white WASPS from the south and can speak at least 4 words of nearly unbroken english? Huh. What constitutes an enemy, internal OR external? Even if this administration is NOT trying to ruin the experiment, once he increases his authority to act, and reduces civil liberites for all, what is to stop the next meathead down the line from acting in a more malicious manner? People with power do not willingly give it up once they have it.

Clinton got hammered here too. Everybody gets hammered here. Pithy responses and disagreement are the norm. Nobody ever answeres these questions. Either they are to tough, or they just don't care. Hell, it could be me asking stupid questions. I bet Tillman was stupid to, for caring.

200 plus years and your going to quible over the ( + ) ? Your going to be fun on these boards :)

Alot of that is really offensive to me. You're assuming things about me. And as a matter of damn fact, I'm a southern white WASP. That does not mean I belong to the Klu Klux Klan or participate in racist thoughts, feelings or statements. But of course, you'll turn that around, too.

What do you exactly mean by "Your going to be fun on these boards"? I hope you are not going to antagonize me. I did not mean to start a "war" by asking a simple question, which I might add, just about everyone responded respectfully to.
 

Planderella

Cyburbian
Messages
5,344
Points
31
[Mod Hat On]

ebeech121 and Duke of Dystopia - please try to stay on topic and respect each other's views, otherwise, I (or one of the other mods) may feel inclined to close this thread. Thanks.

[Mod Hat Off]
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
ebeech121 said:
I wanted to know who did, so I wouldn't offend him or her and to know if I would be offended by something someone said.

While this isn't a written rule of cyburbia, I think the old timers know not to take offense and generally don't. I'm sure I've offended some folks (in fact I'll bet on it). While this forum may not be completely consequence free (good and bad consequences alike), the expression of an opinion is always welcome. The folks on this forum tend to be very intelligent and often times love tough debate, which sometimes gets twisted around into mean spiritedness (is that a word?).

Bottom line, don't take offense and don't worry about offending others. Just speak your mind. If you go over the top, the MODs will clean up your mess. Hang in there.
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,699
Points
24
Planderella said:
[Mod Hat On]

ebeech121 and Duke of Dystopia - please try to stay on topic and respect each other's views, otherwise, I (or one of the other mods) may feel inclined to close this thread. Thanks.

[Mod Hat Off]

Sorry for the misunderstanding,

I don't believe I was off topic, to be honest. I asked a relevent question, which was, why does affiliation matter? And what good does affiliation provide.

There was also a discussion of altruism, this also is relevent to the discussion of any politically tinted discussion.

I have disagreed stridently with Budgie before, yet I agreed with him. I answered a question posed to me by Gedunker, which I answered, hopefully logically, and I eagerly await his reply. Hopefully, this time I will be wrong. :)

these questions do bear thought as to how they affect affiliation. Please notice I did not list mine for a reason, because I think it gets in the way more than it helps. It adversly sets a conversation in stone before it can really start and thus creates a barrier to communication.

Ebeech121 has also made as many assumptions as I have been acused of making. It is OK, I did not take offense and I meant none. I only posed some questions in a different way. A simple search would find my leanings, and I am sure Ebeech121 might find them surprising.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,589
Points
34
Budgie said:
Bottom line, don't take offense and don't worry about offending others. Just speak your mind. If you go over the top, the MODs will clean up your mess. Hang in there.

Well put my two-wheeled friend. Ad hominem attacks are not well received here, but a free spirited disagreement is always welcome.

Now Budgie, when are you going to relaize you wasted $3,000 cuz that chick magnet doesnt hold two and you can't "park" with it? 8-!
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,699
Points
24
ebeech121 said:
Alot of that is really offensive to me. You're assuming things about me. And as a matter of damn fact, I'm a southern white WASP. That does not mean I belong to the Klu Klux Klan or participate in racist thoughts, feelings or statements. But of course, you'll turn that around, too.

What do you exactly mean by "Your going to be fun on these boards"? I hope you are not going to antagonize me. I did not mean to start a "war" by asking a simple question, which I might add, just about everyone responded respectfully to.

Don't get so nervous or offend so easy. The wasp comment was not directed at you. There are MILLIONS that fit that description. :)

I also never accused you of being racist or a clan member. Don't get your hackles up so easily. No, I won't turn that around.

A suggestion though. If you didn't want to offend based on party affiliation, maybe you should have asked "Do people get offended by (insert political flavor here) people posting rather than asking for people to self identify. I don't self identify on purpose any more because it gets in the way or puts up barriers to communication.

I didn't intend to respond disrespectfully, I posed a question in the light of why does self affiliation matter so much. Governent and our system means a lot to me, its not perfect, pessimistically believe it won't get much better, but I believe in the experiment.

I would challenge you to read Robert Heinliens "Starship Troopers" and then challenge you to tell me what it is REALLY about. :) Hin't, its not about a space war. :) I would also add Farehiet 451 to that list as well. Others would add but you are in school :)

Hint for college included:

Take your textbooks to the bar with you. Read a page, take a sip, look at the scenery. Repeat til toasty! :) Makes studying fun. :-D
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,000
Points
52
Wow, let the G-ettes play on the 'puter for a while and look what happens while you are away8-!

DoD your response to my post was thoughtful, literate, and thought provoking. But I respectfully disagree. Andrew Carnegie gave millions of dollars to build libraries across America knowing that it would not benefit him in any way. That was altruistic, IMO. Alfred Nobel invented dynamite (Tri Nitro Toluene) and endowed the ongoing prizes that honor his name, including a peace prize perhaps recognizing the power he had unleashed. Nonetheless, the prize has inspired people to create. That was altruistic. People do small things for their fellow man without any expectation of reward -- look at eG risking his life to help people in need. That was altruistic.

What did Pat Tillman have to gain versus what he had to lose? You make certain suppositions about what he had to gain -- but he had much, much more to lose, IMO. And he gave it freely, of his own will. What he did was altruistic, and i feel that way especially as I watch my children play with caterpillars, and I take them to bed and kiss them "goodnight", unworried that I will see them again tomorrow. Many, many men and women have given that privilege to me by their sacrifice. It is a debt I can only acknowledge. I cannot repay it.

Fault me on semantics if I am guilty. But I think there is a noble purpose to our time here.

And I think that is the definition of altruism.
As to the other discussions, I would just say this -- none of us fit neatly into a box, we are at once one thing and another. The human experience is too glorious to be one thing and one thing only.
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,699
Points
24
Ok, I am going to answere these as I see them. I will agree that there is noble purpose in our time, but being noble does not equate with being altruistic. It is also true that none of us fit into a neatly defined box. That was my whole point to Ebeech121 and the concept of political affiliation. Please also remember this is a thaught excercise :)

Andrew Carnegie was not altruistic. He was trying to put a good spin on his legacy after building a steel empire on the bones of his rivals and the backs of his workers. Realizing he could not live forever, he wanted to achieve his imortality in the minds of other men. It was self serving, but does not lessen the impact of the good it did after he retired and gave up his fortune.

Alfred Nobel was not altruistic. He was ashamed of his creation and wanted to atempt to do something to rite a percieved wrong. He was trying to assuage his own guilt. This is not to lessen the impacts of the good that comes from the Nobel peace prize.

I can't comment on EG's event as I know nothing about it. As a stand in, I submit people help others with/without thinking realizing that the help could be needed or expected in a similar situation of thier own. Thus the altruism expressed is really reciprocity with/without thaught rather than altruism

Tilman was not altruistic. I reiterate my coments from above. I agree with you whole heartedly on his sacrafice. I am saying that taken from a perspective where he had a choice to do 2 things he cared about, play football or serve his country, his value system was such that a game was not worth more than serving the society in which he lived. It was noble, it was courageous, certainly much less selfish than I can point to anywhere recently. There is a deal implicit in serving, and that is that it benifits you or your family in some way. To say the difference in sallary proves altruism is to devalue the other choices that were open or available to him in the decision making process.

honor, courage, candor, nobility, and many other things like this do exist. But they are not altruism. :(

Audey Murphey crawled up onto the back of burning Sherman tank, opened up on an advancing german infantry company with a .50 cal machine gun. He killed many and held them off until the men in his unit who had fled (not retreated) returned to help him. He got the medal of honor. Was that altruism? What about throwing yourself on a grenade?
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
922
Points
22
One of the reasons this is such a tough question is the degree to which the liberals, conservatives, greens, libertarians, etc. have moved off topic to become bought and paid for by special interests.

Cases in point. A tax bill designed to solve a $5 billion export subsidy which was illegal under global trade rules was "augmented" by $170 billion in tax breaks. (It hasn't passed yet and is so gross it probably won't). This fully Republican administration and congress has been profligate spenders - not fiscal conservatives. California Democrats who would normally want to help rehabilitate prisoners have become trapped into massive and long incarceration in order to support prison unions - one of the most powerful lobbying groups. Campaign cash outweighs the idea of liberal compassion.

It's sad that these are the rule, not the exception.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,843
Points
40
I guess it is good to be politicially shallow. So far I figure:

Bush is a weasel whose brother is the village-idiot governor of my state. Hmmm..

Kerry has, what, $30 m. worth of homes and needs a haircut, badly...

There's a reason I ignore most election stories in the paper.

;-)
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
922
Points
22
Zoning Goddess said:
Kerry ... needs a haircut, badly...

Sadly for Democrats, he also needs a platform. And a personality. It's hard to believe the Dems chose someone with less charisma than W -- twice.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
Points
31
This Bear.....

Never owned or shot a gun.....still believe in our right to own and carry. Believes the drug war is a waste of valuable resources. Related to drug law changes, supports the right of any business to refuse to hire a druggie. Free-market oriented.....for better or worse, the world is the new market and we have to deal with it. Supports a flat tax. Supports a woman's right to choose.

This Bear.....

Doesn't like "The Patriot Act" because of the infringement on personal liberties that it could lead to....or, maybe, this Bear just doesn't like John Ashcroft. Supports the war in Irag.....like it or not, we are the world's number one power and we have to act like it.....and that includes helping to establish a moderate democracy-oriented government in Irag, to help stabilize the region. Conversely, our support of Israel needs to be looked at.....they sometimes make decisions, that we support, that keeps the peace well-away from the middle east.

This Bear.....

Doesn't like "some" of the Bush II administration's environmental decisions. Mixed feelings on eminent domain.....never should be used for retail or industrial purposes, but can (sometimes) be used for transportation improvements ("working toward the better good").

This Bear.....

Votes. Last presidential election I was one (1) of only a dozen or so in my county to vote for the Libertarian candidate. As you can see. my views are all over the place.....I will NEVER get plugged-into saying that I'm anything other than an informed voter.

Bear
 
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