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De Noc

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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9,323
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31
Sports Team Mascots

JNA said:
What are the UDN (University of De Noc) and Michigan Shores State University mascots ?

Great question, JNA.....

University of De Noc Tigers
Michigan Shores State University Golden Eagles

Pro sports mascots.....

De Noc Superiors (Football, NFL)
De Noc Laughing Whitefish (Hockey, NHL)
De Noc Bobcats (Basketball, NBA)
De Noc Thunder Bears (Baseball, MLB)

Minor league in metro.....

Fairhaven Zephers (Hockey)
Wildwood Reds (Baseball)

Note: If you are ever in the central north Upper Peninsula of Michigan, there is a real Laughing Whitefish River and a Laughing Whitefish Falls. There used to be a tavern called The Laughing Whitefish, with a great logo sign out front that my mind sees as the logo for De Noc's hockey club. That bar is closed, to the best of my knowledge.

Bear

Bear
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
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18,300
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Bear Up North said:
...De Noc.....my in-home attempt to present a fake large metropolitan area ....
De Noc is fake??? I was hoping to visit this fall after tourist season was over. Dang it. Another fantasy shot to smitherines. Guess I'll go out to California and see mom instead.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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Urban Renewal

In the late 1960's and early 1970's, De Noc moved forward (some would now say "backward") on urban renewal.....that planner-famous catch phrase that was going to transform urban vistas into beautiful boulevarded plazas, with spledid high-rise living, and a sense of community thought "not there" in the old neighborhoods that the towers replaced.

We all know that most urban renewal projects of that time period did not work. These areas became the new "projects".....high crime areas with a sea of broken windows and shattered dreams. The quaint neighborhood market, a great place to pick-up your Easter sausage, made way for the bars-in-the-windows carry-out.

I am telling you things you already know about urban America's larger cities.

De Noc went on that same ill-fated adventure. Over a period of about seven (7) years I developed ten (10) different urban renewal areas. At the same time that I was tearing-up the old and drawing-in the new, I was a believer of high-rise living via a local housing authority (De Noc Metropolitan Housing Authority). Naturally, expressways criss-crossed these areas. (It never occured to me that the eventual inhabitants would not have cars. I was clueless.)

The largest project was the Southern City Renewal District. This included much of the area just south of downtown De Noc, and today is a "no man's" land of crime, drugs, and the poor. The district's boundaries stretched all the way south to inner-ring suburbs Orangewood, Elwood, and Indian Springs.

The Northern City Renewal District fared somewhat better. Part of this area included the now-gone suburb of Oak Falls (annexed by De Noc). Many of the homes in the old Oak Falls remain, although a swath of housing was taken when the new State Capitol complex was built. The area does have some high-rise DNMHA units, but they have stayed in better condition, perhaps due to the strengths of the government offices that dot the area.

The Lexington Renewal District was, in all reality, just an annexation. The old inner-ring suburb of Lexington, including the nicer old homes lining the shore of Cloud Lake, was annexed by De Noc. There was some neighborhood "re-development" (aka wrecking ball blues), but not a lot.

The Villa Renewal District was a smaller version of the Lexington land grab. Orange Village ceased to exist as the De Noc city father's marched their corporate limit express northward.

Three (3) projects just east of downtown De Noc (North Renewal District, Brooklyn Heights Renewal District, Inner-City Renewal District) were all experiments in urban planning, circa 1960's. These areas are filled with low-rise DNMHA units. I did pencil-in a large park area at that time, seeing that I had a lot of housing with little to no green space.

Two (2) smaller districts (Northern Hills Renewal District and Clear River Renewal District) were also developed. The Northern Hills district was, in all reality, a land grab by local manufacturing companies. Clear River helped pave the way for the De Noc Memorial Coliseum complex, home of the NBA De Noc Bobcats.

The Central City Renewal District covered a large area west of downtown De Noc, and stretched as far as inner-ring suburb Des Plaines. Some good things came out of these developments, including additional campus land for Michigan Shores State University, luxury high-rise buildings along the south shore of Devils Lake, and the metro's first real gambling district.

In a future post I will tell you a little bit about the De Noc Metropolitan Housing Authority (DNMHA), such as number of complexes, units, etc.

Bear
 

illinoisplanner

Cyburbian
Messages
5,334
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I was reading this thread even before you posted it recently. That is some crazy stuff. And I thought I was crazy?...who am I kidding? 40 years...that is incredible. You need to go to somewhere and tape your place together...you might set a world record...the largest planned out fictional city ever! I also love the in-depth statistics you keep on everything. I do the occasional business lists and school information, but the amount of time and effort you put into your city is truly amazing. You are now my hero. I intend to continue growing my city and make a new one that's even better, more realistic, and actually to scale. But I don't think I'll ever top De Noc.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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The Cleveland Plain Dealer (newspaper) has been doing a series for more than a year, on regional government and all of those "things" that often overlap in larger metropolitan areas. Things like fire protection, school districts, park districts, etc.
The articles are focused on the monies that could be saved if there was more of a consolidation effort with a lot of these services.

De Noc is experiencing those same pains.

De Noc is the big central city. But there are more than seventy (70) cities and or township governments in the contiguous metropolitan area. Over the years of drawing De Noc I have been converting townships and villages to cities, as their physical and population growth continued upward. Every suburb has their own school district, fire station(s), municipal building(s), maintenance service center facilities, etc.

Like so many other USA metros, in the De Noc metro you can find two (2) fire stations within a half-mile of each other, in two (2) separate communities, serving two very separate areas. (The Toledo suburb of Ottawa Hills has their village offices, including police, in a building that is just a few feet from the Toledo corporate limit boundaries. Years ago, a serious assault took place within earshot of the Ottawa Hills police station but they did not respond.....the Toledo police had to. extreme example, maybe, but illustrative of the problem.)

There is some regional cooperation. The suburban school districts have a joint purchasing group and share the benefits of this policy with the De Noc Public School District. The public library system is a county-wide venture, supported by county-wide tax dollars. The De Noc Metropolitan Park Board is also funded from the county's coffers.....and that includes every park, forest preserve, and playground in the entire metro.

The bottom-line here is that I have been using the template provided by The Plain Dealer's articles to explore regional government and how it might be applied to metro De Noc. School district consolidation comes to mind first, because the potential dollar savings are too high to ignore.

Also considering fire station district consolidation. But before I tackle that one (1) I have to get a handle on the actual stations I have now.....location, area served, etc.

Actual regional government.....probably won't happen.

Bear Not In Jacksonville, Louisville, Indianapolis

In other De Noc posts, I have mentioned that over the years I probably built too dang many expressways. Couple reasons for an Amish Sim City guy to do this, including I just didn't know any better and it took me a while to really get in the habit of looking at "the big picture".....so expressways were not located too close to each other. I was all about moving people on divided highways.

Just finished a project where I determined exactly how many miles of expressway that De Noc has, how many lane miles, etc. This detailed spreadsheet lists every expressway and every feeder. (Note: My "feeders" are limited-access highways that feed neighborhoods or main roads, usually extending from an exit on an expressway.)

The De Noc metro has eighteen (18) separate expressways and seven (7) feeders. Of the expressways, three (3) are very short, just serving as routes between the more major expressways.

Of the fifteen (15) major expressways, four (4) are the "outerbelt", known as Metropolitan Parkway - North, South, East, and West. The northeastern portion of the Parkway is I-98. The outerbelt on the northwest and the west is I-498. On the east and southeast the Metropolitan Parkway is I-298. I-98 is the designation for the southwestern portion of the Parkway. (I-98 cuts-through central De Noc, as part of the Northern Michigan Expressway.)

Metropolitan De Noc has 164 constructed (drawn) miles of expressway. This includes the feeders, the short expressways, the longer expressways, and the outerbelt. The total built (drawn) lane miles are 952.5. (The metro I most often compare De Noc to is the Twin Cities. They have 1227 lane miles.)

Metro De Noc has 2.60 lanes per / square mile. Portland (2.09) and Atlanta (1.75) are shown here for comparison.

My numbers for De Noc do not include future growth. My numbers only show the actual built (drawn) miles, so the actual metro total would be much higher, because the outerbelt would be "finished". If it makes you feel any better about a non-planner who builds too many expressways, most of the plats that I have drawn in the last few years have had limited expressways. I now do a much better job of aligning the fantasy of my city with the reality of the built world.

Bear
 
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DetroitPlanner

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Hah, Bear you could have got all of this information from the DeNoc MPO. I remember something about rairoads. Do you have buslines too?
 

Bear Up North

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DetroitPlanner said:
Hah, Bear you could have got all of this information from the DeNoc MPO. I remember something about rairoads. Do you have buslines too?

I had to do a google for MPO. Sorry, this Bear is not an official planner so sometimes the jargon is out of my reach.

After doing the googling, I would have to assume that this Bear IS the De Noc MPO. :)

Railroads.....The metro is served by the North Central Railroad (with corporate headquarters for this large midwestern company in suburban Bailey Creek).....a couple local belt line roads, The De Noc Trunk Line Railroad and The De Noc Belt Line Railroad.....and some roads that "still exist" in the fantasy world of De Noc: Soo Line (pre-merger with Wisconsin Central), and Chicago & Northwestern. Milwwaukee Road traffic is about fifty (50) miles west of the metro, accessible via interchanging with westbound North Central units.

Traffic tie-ups at some grade crossings are an issue in the metro, especially in the western and southwestern 'burbs. De Noc has a major iron ore loading facility on Big Bay De Noc and the through routes to the port are mostly grade crossings. Also, De Noc Edison's coal-fired plants require unit trains and have been known to raise the temper of a waiting SUV driver.

A very successful industrial story is in the southwestern suburb of Alaska House. Trinity Corporation has a huge plant that builds the small ore cars so visible in the Lake Superior region and new-generation flat cars, for modal transportation needs.

Awhile back on this thread, I indicated that De Noc's passenger station (downtown) was closed because there was no Amtrak service. Some readers responded that the metro's size and influence would have led to Amtrak service. I may have to change my mind on that one (1).

Bus Service.....There are two (2) bus lines serving De Noc, Greyhound and Short Way.

Taxis.....The metro area has five (5) different cab companies that compete for fares. Three (3) of those are located near downtown De Noc.

Bear (MPO)
 

JNA

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Continuing the transportation discussion; cargo/freight container movement;

Is the harbor deep enough to handle a container ship ?
and then there is gantry for handling the containers.

Has the railyard expanded to handle the inter-modal tranfer ?
 

Bear Up North

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JNA Is Keeping This Bear On His Toes

JNA said:
Continuing the transportation discussion; cargo/freight container movement;

Is the harbor deep enough to handle a container ship ?
and then there is gantry for handling the containers.

Has the railyard expanded to handle the inter-modal tranfer ?

JNA....here are some answers and comments.....

The harbor is deep enough to handle lake boats ("lakers") and ocean freighters ("salties"). Lakers that are inbound to the port are primarily bringing in coal, from Toledo or Ashtabula, for electrical generating plants (De Noc Edison Company). Outbound lakers are usually filled with iron ore pellets, from the two (2) large ore mines west of Marquette, MI. Ore traffic is heavier in colder months, when the Marquette ore docks are not in use because of Lake Superior conditions and the closing of the Sault Locks.

Salties are usually bringing in some specialty products from Europe and/or northern Quebec. A big export on salties are snowmobiles, manufactured in the metro by a couple different companies. Other exports are automobile parts for Germany, industrial kitchen equipment, school bus bodies, and De Noc Lager Beer, for all of Europe's discriminating imbibers.

There is a large gantry crane, but it is not for containers. De Noc.....and the Great Lakes.....are not container-ready. Too few containers can go on a saltie, because the salties that cruise the lakes have to fit through a Welland Canal and St. Lawrence Seaway that were built for ships of another era.

Concerning inter-modal transfer.....

Already have a small transfer site, built about twenty (20) years ago, in the suburb of Valleyview. That site is somewhat outdated and I have on my to-do list a project that would place a new and large transfer site in a western suburb. Have not decided on the exact location. Probably West Fairhaven or Skybear.

So many projects.....so little time.....

Bear
 

DetroitPlanner

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Sorry for the use of Jargon Bear, Toledo's MP) is TMACOG. You may need to update your buslines. Michigan Does not support Greyhound up there, I believe its Indian Trails only (I know only a geek would know this stuff so I'm guilty as charged).

In terms of buses however I was not thinking intercity (Greyhound) but intracity (TARTA)
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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Let's take a drive, from downtown De Noc, south to West Warwick Hills Boulevard, and then motor west. To give you a feel for De Noc.....

We just pulled our car out of the underground parking garage, onto southbound Long Lake Boulevard, Northern Michigan Route 99. We are still in the land of the skyscrapers, as we cruise past four (4) major buildings that are each over 30-stories tall. But we see daylight ahead.....we are approaching the area known as The Convention Center District.

The De Noc Memorial Convention Center is on our right, as we drive under the People Mover line. A number of hotels and casinos surround the center. We continue southbound, with Long Lake Boulevard still an 8-lane street. :-c

Tightly-packed older homes are now the norm, many in bad condition. Just after New Engand Junior High School we turn right, onto 2-lane West Warwick Hills Boulevard. Within a couple of city blocks we motor past the De Noc Metropolitan Housing Authority's (DNMHA) New England Apartments complex (24 each 6-story buildings). Across the street from the public housing project is the Blue Line - Orange Line Transfer Station, of the De Noc Transit System (DNTS). That heavily-used monorail station backs-up against the Lakeside Expressway.

The street crosses the South Expressway (interchange here) and curves south, past a huge plastics factory. There is a grade-crossing railroad track here, that feeds the plastics factory. Next to Festy's Tavern the road turns right and becomes a true boulevard, moving westbound. The terrain is noticeably hilly, and the homes along the boulevard are bigger and well-kept. Most of these homes were built around the turn of the century. Warwick Hills Country Club comes into view on our right, as do the towers of KXMM Radio. The boulevard goes over a small bridge (Clear River....actually just a creek at this point) and continues west.

West Warwick Hills Boulevard continues through the wooded areas of Western Park (150 acres). A small shopping area just past the park includes a Bunky's Burgers joint. Boy those little things are every bit as good as White Castle's "sliders". :p

The boulevard then turns south and goes over (with an interchange) the Southbelt Expressway. Another small bridge takes WWHB over, again, the Clear River. Just past that bridge the boulevard again curves west. Off to the left you can see the 4-story Michigan Plastics Company Administration Building. Behind that you can see some of Michigan Plastics' industrial plants.

The terrain levels-out a bit as we approach the junction with Ohio Boulevard. Continuing west we see the big Southwood Tubing plant. At the next major intersection (Indiana Boulevard) there is a new Wal-Mart, across the street from an older shopping center, Huntington Village. As we continue west, then southwest, we motor past the old (and now closed) Huntington Heights Drive-In Theater. Nearby is an access road to take vehicles to the Southbelt Expressway. The area becomes noticeably more wooded and the homes along the boulevard are very-well kept (circa 1920's).

We notice the Fidelity Kitchen Machine plan on our left, at the intersection with Detroit Avenue. Again we interchange with the Southbelt Expressway, because WWHB and The Southbelt parallel each other through much of the southwest metro. The boulevard enters the corporate limits of Lakewood, as we pass the Strawberry Creek Golf Course. We can see the smallish Strawberry Lake on our left. Strawberry Lake is also a busy lake for boaters, because it has an outflow canal, dug through a swampy area, that connects some major inland lakes in the area.

As we continue west we actually cross a set of bridges going to and from a small island in Neverland Lake. That island has about a dozen larger lakefront homes and a small country club golf course (Strawberry Island Country Club). This area also some boat canals, with homes built along the canals. The next major intersection is with Cleveland Avenue.

We leave Lakewood and re-enter De Noc's corporate limits, in a neighborhood known as Woodbridge. There is an interchange here with The Sportsway, an expressway in the west metro that is adjacent to a number of major sports venues.

Just past that junction we enter the city of Winterwood. Impressive Packer Hill looms on the left in this area of homes built in the 1990's and 2000's. On the right we can see, peeking through side yards of these large lakeside homes, Western Highlands Lake. Concord Avenue junctions from the left and just past that we cross over the Metropolitan Parkway - West (I-98 / US 2). There is a major interchange here, with the usual spat of hotels, motels, restaurants, and retail.

West Warwick Hills Boulevard has now become a 4-lane road. The road takes us through downtown Winterwoods. The downtown area is relatively new, and it includes an office park, a number of small businesses, a small strip shopping center, some churches, and some apartment complexes. On the western edge of Winterwoods the road intersects with Skybear Highway, just before the City Of Winterwoods Transit Station (DNTS), on the Red Line.

West Warwick Hills Boulevard turns into a 2-lane road and crosses the Sturgeon River (not much wider than a creek). The road enters the Rapid River National Forest and becomes Forest Highway U.

Our trip took us on surface streets, for a distance of about sixteen (16) miles. We went from a vibrant and busy downtown (De Noc), through some older and tougher public-housing neighborhoods, into gently-rolling turn-of-the-century areas, past some industry, through an inner-ring suburb (Lakewood) and through an outer-ring suburb (Winterwoods).

Hope you enjoyed your drive. Let's park the car at the Winterwoods Transit Station and take The Red Line back into downtown De Noc.

Bear

This Bear has been drawing a new suburb for the De Noc Metropolitan Area. Of course, there is an assumption that this place has been growing all along, over the years. It is just now being recognized......because I am physically creating it.....as a city (and not just suburban township growth).

The city is Bailey Creek, Northern Michigan. I have worked on it for two (2) consecutive Sundays, relaxing in the AC while the humid weather wipes everybody out. Gave it about six (6) hours each day. Still not done.

Preparation
I make sure that I have enough pre-cut to my specific requirements sized drawing paper (22.5" x 17.5"). I need six (6) sheets for Bailey Creek. When finished, the city will be two (2) miles wide (east-west) and 2.25 miles deep (north-south). That is 2 plats wide and 3 plats deep = total 6 plats.

A whole stack of sharpened number 2's. Yard stick, circle templates, protractor, straight edge, calculator, iced tea, old movie in the VCR/DVD/Cable Box.

Then, the files and the other reference maps. Multi-page documents and lists and printed hard copy spread sheets that detail the businesses, organizations, industries that I need in this particular area of the metro. (As if I was in a retail development location planning office, etc.) Reference maps include the railroad routes (and future proposed routes), the main roads (with logical patterns, directions).

Amish Mapping. Release 4.5
For a six-plat city like Bailey Creek the first thing I do is draw the connections to the map plats that are already done and constitute the "neighbors". To the north of Bailey Creek is Alaska House. To the east (adjoining 2 plats) is Katie Shores. The plat in the lower right hand corner abuts Lake Michigan, so I have some shoreline to play with.

Those connections included Bailey Creek Road, Rico Road, Northern Lights Avenue, Columbus Avenue (Northern Michigan Route 102), and I-98/US-2. Other connections include the neighborhood streets, railroad tracks, and the shoreline of Bailey Creek (which has its' mouth at Lake Michigan.)

On a sheet of scratch paper I will draw a couple different road plans, attempting again to be as logical as possible. Because it is a suburban community, I will draw a downtown area. During this process I am continually refering back to my lists and maps to draw-in all that needs to be here. In the case of Bailey Creek, my connection to the real world is I-98 and US 2, both coming into the metro from the west (specifically Escanaba). So, when US 2 splits from I-98 in Bailey Creek the road becomes The Escanaba Highway. I-98 shrinks from 8-lanes to 6-lanes as it leaves the metro.....and I am quite sure that a few miles farther west it shrinks again, to 4-lanes.

Because I want to include some major railroad-related industries in this area I continually reference the railroad map, thinking as I draw, if I was an engineer yanking a train of pulp cars through this area, what tracks would I need to stage and sort inbounds and outbounds. (I did create a "wye" in the northwestern part of the new city. For non-railroaders, a "wye" is a place that the track is layed-out in such a manner that it allows you to turn a train engine.....motive power.....around. Wyes are not very popular anymore, because today's diesel-electrics can operate freely in any direction they face.)

Nearing Completion
The next time I plop in front of the old movie player and work on the metro, I will finish Bailey Creek. Upon completion I will slide once again though my lists, making sure that I didn't miss something important. "Hey, Bear. Are all the kids in Bailey Creek smart or something? You didn't build an elementary school."

Then I will lay-out the completed plats, and adjacent plats, next to each other. I need a large room for this. This gives me an overview and, quite frankly, a lot of pride. My favorite part. :)

Then I go through each plat and compile all of the numbers that have to be added to all of the collected statistics for my metro. Population, expressway lane mileage, interchange descriptions, points-of-interest (for the Chamber of Commerce), tall buildings (stories, name), industries (type, square-footage, primary product), parks and beaches (all the info for standards meeting).

At a later date I will jump into the computer files, add all of the data, update metro population, etc.

The birth of a hand-drawn city.....Bailey Creek.

Bear
 
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Bear Up North

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Alaska House

For those of you that follow the De Noc thread AND gazed at the pictures from the recent Michigan Stanfest in Kalamazoo......here's some info.....

The photo with some plats from metro De Noc that were placed on the ground did not photograph well. You can see, though, that there are fourteen (14) sheets of paper. If you could get close this is what you would see:

Alaska House and Bailey Creek are two (2) southwest metro suburbs.
_____

Alaska House
I named Alaska House after a tavern I was in, in Ironwood, MI (Upper Peninsula), many years ago. I thought....cool name....so I saved it for a suburb.

Alaska House is the 10th largest suburb of De Noc, with a city population of 27,067. The city is comprised of eight (8) square miles, situated on gently rolling hills, with the Sturgeon River meandering through a portion of the community.

Downtown Alaska House is centered at the corner of Bailey Creek Road and Southwestern Hi-Way. The relatively-new downtown business district has the usual strip centers, restaurants, grocery store (Food City), and some smaller businesses. The famed Alaska House tavern is now located here, too. :)

There are some low-rise apartment buildings and there is a 26-story high-rise apartment building, Chimney Hill Apartments. Helping to create a mini-skyline in the downtown area are a couple State of Northern Michigan Office Buildings, the Public Utilities Commission Building and the Department Of Mental Health Building (both 10-stories tall). Across Southwestern Hi-Way are three (3) more skyscrapers, located in the large Timberstone Office Park.

The area just east orf downtown Alaska House has some significant hills (Three Suns Hill, Chimney Hill), another tall apartment building, and some more smaller businesses. West of downtown you will find the city's High School and Junior High School, Rico Park (80 acres), and a large area of motels and restaurants that are at the junction of Southwestern Hi-Way and The Southbelt Expressway (I-98 / US-2).

Sprinkled between all of the above-mentioned development are hundreds of newer homes, most built in the last ten (10) to fifteen (15) years, and many apartment complexes. The northern portions of the city include some industry and significant single-family housing tracts. The northern boundary borders the city of De Noc and Porcupine Lake.

The southern parts of Alaska House include the huge Trinity Industries manufacturing plant (iron ore and flatbed rail cars) and a number of cul-de-sac type subdivisions.

Three (3) miles of the Southbelt Expressway (I-98 / US-2) skirt the western edge of the city. Primary arterials include Bailey Creek Road, Alaska House Road, Rico Road, Clooney Avenue, and Southwestern Hi-Way. Traffic is heavy in the community because of the higher population (a lot of apartments!) and the proximity to I-98 / US-2.

About eight-hundred (800) acres of the Sturgeon River Greenbelt are located in the city. Within the greenbelt, which follows the Sturgeon River, you can enjoy portions of the Katie Shores Bike Trail and the Sturgeon River Bike Trail. After an autumn bike ride along the clear shores of the Sturgeon River you could catch a high school football game.....watching the Alaska House Pioneers competing in The Greenbelt Conference.

East of Alaska House is the suburb of Katie Shores. South of the city is Bailey Creek.....the OTHER city that was displayed on the grass at the Stanfest in Kalamazoo.

Next time: Bailey Creek.

Bear
 

Bear Up North

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Indian Springs National Guard Air Base

Last night (8-24-05) on the CBS Evening News, they did a blurb about the redevelopment of the Glenview Naval Air Station, north of Chicago. Today, relaxing on my first vacation day in forever, I worked on dismantling an old base (in my fake metro) and replacing it with.......stuff. :-D

Indian Springs National Guard Air Base is an old air field that has been closed for about ten (10) years. Problems at the base included buildings that were constructed (rather quickly and rather shabbily) during World War II, runways that are too short for effective NG practice, and landing patterns that are over suburbs "all over the place" that surround the base.

With the recent military base closures in the news, topped by viewing the CBS report on Glenview, this Bear dismantled the former base. After the runways and buildings were destroyed I re-routed Indian Boulevard (moving it about a quarter mile farther south, onto former base property). Developers were lined-up, because this area of the south metro has a demographic quality of middle-to-upper class incomes, most folks own their own homes, and the area has NOT seen much in the way of sprawl-attack.

A sizeable portion of the old base went to a manufacturer, Lake Shore Indsutries (not new to the area, just relocating in a larger and more modern structure). Stores and other fronts that moved onto the re-located Indian Boulevard included Lazy Boy Furniture Gallery, Home Depot, Polar Bear Ice Cream Store, Yooper Spa Health Club, Tractor Supply Company (TSC), Applebee's, a Honda dealer, and a Toyota dealer. A half-mile access road was placed in another portion of the old base, serving as the front for the new Old Base Business Park (6 different-size buildings).

The re-routing created a place where the following 4-lane roads come together: Indian Boulevard, South Indian Boulevard, and Long Lake Boulevard (Northern Michigan State Route 99). Thanx to my inspirational and knowledgeable Cyburbia friends I placed at this junction a ROTARY. :)

This military base closing was from a previous round of closures, but today's news became the real deal in suburban Indian Springs, Northern Michigan.

Bear
 

Bear Up North

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Metropolitan De Noc Suburb Names

Another thread has postings of city names that don't exactly flow off the tongue easily, and folks adding their thoughts to that thread threw in some of the "traditional" names of 'burbs in places like Chicagoland. Here's a sample list of some of De Noc's suburbs. I note if named after a real location in the Upper Peninsula or named after something from my sheltered life.

I Just Picked A Name For No Logical Reason
Orangewood
Elwood
West Elwood
Rockland
Cherry Heights
Valleyview
Sunset Beach
Fairhaven
Wildwood

Named After A Real Place Or Thing That May Or May Not Be In The U.P.
Indian Springs (lots of natural springs in this area)
Nahma Junction (real)
Billy Good Lake (real lake in this area)
Chicago Lake (real lake in this area)
Mahskeekee Lake (real lake in this area)
Rumble Lake (real lake in this area)
Des Plaines (yes, named after Chicagoland 'burb)
Southgate (yes, named after Detroit "downriver" 'burb)
Roxbury (I used to listen to WBZ in Boston all the time and loved the towne name)
Frying Pan Lake (real lake in this area)
Whitmer (my high school)

Named After Somebody In My Sheltered Life
Joland (Jo Ann.....ex GF)
Foxe Lake (Jennifer.....ex GF)
Katie Shores (Happy and smiling wife of this Bear :-D )
Cinderdale (ex-wife)
Winterwoods (ex-wife.....ironic, considering De Noc's location)
Angel Pointe (grand-daughter)
Luna (grand-daughter)

These are just a few of the suburbs.

Bear
 

JNA

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71
Bear Up North said:
Another thread has postings of city names that don't exactly flow off the tongue easily, and folks adding their thoughts to that thread threw in some of the "traditional" names of 'burbs in places like Chicagoland. Here's a sample list of some of De Noc's suburbs. I note if named after a real location in the Upper Peninsula or named after something from my sheltered life.

I Just Picked A Name For No Logical Reason

Elwood
West Elwood
There is a simple and logical reason for this name - you like :8: The Blues Brothers :8:
but where is Jake ?
 

Bear Up North

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JNA said:
There is a simple and logical reason for this name - you like :8: The Blues Brothers :8:
but where is Jake ?

JNA.....we are on the same wave-length.....scary, huh?.....

I thought about Jake and Elwood when I typed the list this morning. But Elwood and West Elwood were both drawn many years before the Blues Brothers' movies and music. So, that means they stole the name from me! Hey!

Bear In The Empty Mall In Chicago, Driving A Big Car With Fins
 

Bear Up North

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Stump The Bear: The De Noc Challenge

OK.....those of you who browse this thread probably have thought to yourself, between swigs of your favorite beverage, "Hey, I wonder if De Noc has a ____."

Go ahead, hit me with your best shot. Stump The Bear. Think of something that would be in an upper Great Lakes metropolitan area of 2,000,000. Stump The Bear.

Strips clubs? Got 'em.
Country clubs? Yep.
Boulevards? Certainly.
Poorly-designed or not well-thought-out road patterns? For sure.
Macy's? Yes.
WalMart? Certainly.....my citizen's demand this.
Republican Headquarters? Natch.
National chain paint stores? Of course.
Metro Park System? Sure thing.....there is the De Noc Metropolitan Park Board.
Rental halls? Lots of them, all over the area.
Canoe rentals? Yep.
Fire stations? Of course.
Small distribution centers selling restaurant supplies? Sure.
Office parks? A lot, especially in newer suburbs, along interstates.
Zoo? No, but I have one (1) on the drawing board.
Amusement (theme) parks? I have an older park that closed and plan on building a new large theme park.

Simple rules: Stump The Bear. Ask about anything that might be located in Metropolitan De Noc.

(Chances are real goode that I not only have what you are asking, I also have more of the same in a competitor's clothing.)

Stump The Bear
 

iamme

Cyburbian
Messages
484
Points
14
Bear Up North said:
Simple rules: Stump The Bear. Ask about anything that might be located in Metropolitan De Noc.

(Chances are real goode that I not only have what you are asking, I also have more of the same in a competitor's clothing.)

Stump The Bear

How about a Polish Falcons of America "Nest" ?

http://www.polishfalcons.org/
 

Bear Up North

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iamme said:
How about a Polish Falcons of America "Nest" ?

http://www.polishfalcons.org/

I can honestly say "YES - ON MY LIST". (Because I just added it to the spreadsheet list.)

I did NOT have Polish Falcons.

I do have Polish Army Veterans Halls (a couple.....north side and in suburb of Katie Shores). I also have a Polish Club in Katie Shores.

Note: A few years ago I realized I was lacking in clubs, fraternal organizations, etc. So, after some research, I developed a big spreadsheet that I use as I am working on my metro.

Thanx for catching me off guard. Yes, you did, indeed.....STUMP THE BEAR.

:)

Bearski
 

Bear Up North

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Microwave Transmission Towers & High Schools

Microwave Transmission Towers.....This Bear has a few questions that most of you planners can probably help me with.....

Who owns microwave transmission towers and other types of communication towers? Are they owned by the cellular companies......or, perhaps communication service companies that specialize in this type of thing?

Would a large metropolitan area have numerous types of towers, many with different owners?

A large metropolitan area (2,000,000) would have how many of these types of towers?

Help.
_____

High School Nicknames

As mentioned in a previous De Noc post, this Bear is so anal about developing a statistical base for De Noc, all of the high schools have nicknames for their sports' teams. A year-by-year scenario has been developed that shows what high school won what championship in what league for what year. State champions are identified, as well as the numerous sectional, district, and regional champions.

Boy's football, basketball, hockey and baseball is documented. Girl's basketball and volleyball is documented.
_____

The REAL Upper Peninsula of Michigan has two (2) of the Top Ten Unusual High School Sports Team Nicknames: Kingsford Flivvers and Watersmeet Nimrods.
Not to disappoint, this Bear has thrown in some unusual nicknames to some of the schools in Metropolitan De Noc:

(Fairhaven) Fairhaven Canals Speedos
(De Noc) Orange Lake Island Kings
(De Noc) Blue Ridge Academy Ridge Runners
(Skybear) Skybear Dancing Bears
(West Fairhaven) West Fairhaven Skeeters
(Little Bass Lake) Little Bass Lake Finns
_____

Just another touch of insane magic, helping to make a fake city seem more real every day. Go Skeeters!

Bear
 

mgk920

Cyburbian
Messages
4,201
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Bear Up North said:
Microwave Transmission Towers.....This Bear has a few questions that most of you planners can probably help me with.....

Who owns microwave transmission towers and other types of communication towers? Are they owned by the cellular companies......or, perhaps communication service companies that specialize in this type of thing?

Would a large metropolitan area have numerous types of towers, many with different owners?

A large metropolitan area (2,000,000) would have how many of these types of towers?

Help.
Cellphone repeaters are located all over the place, some well disguised, and are owned by the various providers. You could probably get away with a 'honeycomb' scattering of cell towers about 1-2 sections apart for each company, closer together in the CBD and in more congested suburban areas, farther apart in the less dense areas.

AT&T had an extensive network of microwave towers, mainly located on high points in rural areas and on the central phone switch building, but these may have gone obsolete with lightwave (fiberoptic) cables becoming ombiquitous.


What I would find to be more interesting is the grid of high-energy electric transmission lines that would be needed to power the metro area. I could see a loop of those reeeeeally big-ass 765 kV lines (the ones with the four-wire bundle conductors held up by 3-4 meter-long strings of insulators, like that one that crosses through northern Indiana with a branch heading northward into the far southwestern ElPee of Michigan) passing around the edge of the metro area, too, like an outer beltline, with lower voltage lines branching 'inward' from it and also heading in other directions that the 765 kV lines do not.

_____

Bear Up North said:
High School Nicknames

As mentioned in a previous De Noc post, this Bear is so anal about developing a statistical base for De Noc, all of the high schools have nicknames for their sports' teams. A year-by-year scenario has been developed that shows what high school won what championship in what league for what year. State champions are identified, as well as the numerous sectional, district, and regional champions.

Boy's football, basketball, hockey and baseball is documented. Girl's basketball and volleyball is documented.
_____

The REAL Upper Peninsula of Michigan has two (2) of the Top Ten Unusual High School Sports Team Nicknames: Kingsford Flivvers and Watersmeet Nimrods.
Not to disappoint, this Bear has thrown in some unusual nicknames to some of the schools in Metropolitan De Noc:

(Fairhaven) Fairhaven Canals Speedos
(De Noc) Orange Lake Island Kings
(De Noc) Blue Ridge Academy Ridge Runners
(Skybear) Skybear Dancing Bears
(West Fairhaven) West Fairhaven Skeeters
(Little Bass Lake) Little Bass Lake Finns
_____

Just another touch of insane magic, helping to make a fake city seem more real every day. Go Skeeters!

Bear
I would add 'Bucks', 'Blizzards', 'Lumberjacks', 'Miners', 'Coppers', 'Ironmen', 'Chippewas', 'Auroras', 'Yetis' and 'Ice'.

;-)

Mike
 

zman

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Stump the Bear, the All Mighty Mayor of De Noc?

You got it!

Hey Mr, Mayor? I have just moved into De Noc and lack anything social to do after my days of work.

Is there a Hungarian Club in De Noc? You know, someplace I can eat Paprikas, Pogacha, and Szerbo? Drink a shot of Unicum? Maybe meet a loud, hairy woman? How many Hungarians live in De Noc?

Just thought I'd ask...;-)
 

Bear Up North

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zmanPLAN said:
Stump the Bear, the All Mighty Mayor of De Noc?

You got it!

Hey Mr, Mayor? I have just moved into De Noc and lack anything social to do after my days of work.

Is there a Hungarian Club in De Noc? You know, someplace I can eat Paprikas, Pogacha, and Szerbo? Drink a shot of Unicum? Maybe meet a loud, hairy woman? How many Hungarians live in De Noc?

Just thought I'd ask...;-)

The east side of De Noc has a neighborhood of small homes, small Roman Catholic churches, and a couple of "social clubs". When I drew the plats for this area.....probably about 1966 or 1967.....I was basing the neighborhood on the east Toledo neighborhood that I had to drive through to get to my then-girl-friend's house.

I have never formally indicated on paper that the area is predominantely Hungarian, but I always assumed it. I have other 'hoods with the same thought process, including Russian, Polish, Italian, and Jewish.

This weekend I will get the plats out and see what the name of that club is, so your stay in De Noc won't be in vain.

Bear
 

bflo_la

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Messages
184
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7
[Mr. Mayor,

I'm considering buying some rental investment property in De Noc, and I was wondering how many ethnic street gangs are in town?

Also, do you have a large contigent of Guatemalan and Salvadoran illegals?
 

Bear Up North

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bflo_la said:
[Mr. Mayor,

I'm considering buying some rental investment property in De Noc, and I was wondering how many ethnic street gangs are in town?

Also, do you have a large contigent of Guatemalan and Salvadoran illegals?

Sorry, but never got to the detail level that would show gangs, gang demographics, illegals, etc.

In other posts on this thread, I have mentioned that my fake city has a rougher area of town, located just south of downtown De Noc. Like many typical USA large cities, you have highly-visible tourist-oriented commerce within a city block or so of tenements, run-down and not appropriate public housing towers, etc.

If you are a visitor, staying in a high-rise hotel on the south edge of downtown, across Long Lake Boulevard from the Convention Center (and connected to that center via underground and elevated passenger walks), you can look north and see the majestic skyline of De Noc. A great sight!

If you look south you see the older public housing towers, slums, the transit system, etc.

This neighborhood, known as New England, is De Noc's toughest.

Bear
 

Bear Up North

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Imagineering

This past week, when working on De Noc, I noticed (again) a trait that I exhibit. As I am drawing something (call it "engineering") I am thinking of how it would fit in with the surroundings. Here's an example of what I am talking about.....

I am working on plats in the southeast area of the metro, a few miles north of Lake Michigan. The plats I am working on are corporate De Noc squares, just east of the suburbs of Red Sand and Bywater. Specifically, I am building another major university.....a university with research-ties to the plastics business. Adjoining the university property is Superior Research Park, loosely based on North Carolina's Triangle Research Park.

Slicing through the new university is a De Noc Metropolitan Park Board Bike Path. This is one (1) of the newer Class I trails, the Dancing Bear Lake Bike Trail.
As the bike trail winds through the campus it comes very close to the backside of a string of fraternity and sorority houses (on the U's "Greek Village").

Would a planner place a bike trail so close to a frat house / sorority house? My thoughts were, as I was drawing it in, drunk and obnoxious "Greeks" are going to yell obscenities, throw beer bottles, whistle and hoot at young woman who are power-blading, etc.

But I drew it in, anyway. (Still wondering if that close proximity would reduce the number of "civvies" who would use the path.)

Bear Kappa Tau
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
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Bear Up North said:
...As the bike trail winds through the campus it comes very close to the backside of a string of fraternity and sorority houses (on the U's "Greek Village").

Would a planner place a bike trail so close to a frat house / sorority house? ...

Done it! Three years after it was completed, still no problem.
 

illinoisplanner

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Bear Up North said:
This past week, when working on De Noc, I noticed (again) a trait that I exhibit. As I am drawing something (call it "engineering") I am thinking of how it would fit in with the surroundings. Here's an example of what I am talking about.....

I am working on plats in the southeast area of the metro, a few miles north of Lake Michigan. The plats I am working on are corporate De Noc squares, just east of the suburbs of Red Sand and Bywater. Specifically, I am building another major university.....a university with research-ties to the plastics business. Adjoining the university property is Superior Research Park, loosely based on North Carolina's Triangle Research Park.

Slicing through the new university is a De Noc Metropolitan Park Board Bike Path. This is one (1) of the newer Class I trails, the Dancing Bear Lake Bike Trail.
As the bike trail winds through the campus it comes very close to the backside of a string of fraternity and sorority houses (on the U's "Greek Village").

Would a planner place a bike trail so close to a frat house / sorority house? My thoughts were, as I was drawing it in, drunk and obnoxious "Greeks" are going to yell obscenities, throw beer bottles, whistle and hoot at young woman who are power-blading, etc.

But I drew it in, anyway. (Still wondering if that close proximity would reduce the number of "civvies" who would use the path.)

Bear Kappa Tau

I know exactly what you're referring to...thinking how it would fit in. To tell you the truth, I do a lot more thinking, contemplating, and imagining than I actually draw these days. For instance, as I was planning the northern half of North Oak Creek...I knew that I would need a lot more retail (particularly upscale), and knew a river would run through the area. Thus, I constructed a bike path, that went along the river, and went past restaurants with lovely riverfront patios, several riverfront parks, a marina, and other plazas. However, it's first starting to occur to me that the back of some retail stores would bump up to the river. Hmm...maybe some lush landscaping to serve as a buffer to the loading zones might help.

I must say that the idea of a bike path running by Greek Village sounds very nice. I can picture it being used heavily during the day by civic uses, and at night as a safety zone for the drunks, so they don't get killed walking down the middle of the street. I would recommend that this section have daily maintenance though, and that it is well patrolled by campus and city police.
 

Bear Up North

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All The Other Stuff

In an attempt to present De Noc in as realistic manner as possible, this Bear has developed many lists, spreadsheets, document attachments, etc. These add-ons bring a certain "life" to my fake city, presenting data as if this giant metropolitan area was a real place. Here are just some examples:

Population statistics, for each census, for De Noc and for the metro.
Population counts for each separate plat (with each plat formally named).
School districts (with each high school as the center of a neighborhood district) identified.
Snapshots (charts) of where De Noc fits in with USA Urbanized Population stats.

Golf courses (Address, holes, Slope Rating, terrain descriptions).
Casinos (Address, whether or not attached to lodging).
Colleges and universities: Detailed descriptions of university colleges, schools, buildings, facilities.
De Noc Metropolitan Park Board: Detailed descriptions of all parks (and "park standards" comparisons).
De Noc Metropolitan Housing Authority: Details of all public housing.

Expressway lists: Details of all expressways, miles, lane miles, exits, etc.
De Noc Transit Authority: Details of all passenger stations.
Hospitals: Details include address, beds, affiliations, trauma rating, etc.

High school sports: Schools, nicknames, class (size), leagues, standings, trophies.
Newspapers, radio and TV stations.

State of Northern Michigan: All facilitites, buildings.

Lists of all shopping centers, strip centers, all stores, locational maps of same.
Skyscaper listing, with details of floors and height, and comparison to other cities.
Industries: Details of factories,warehouses, etc. including size, employees, parent company, product, etc.
Cemeteries: Details of acres, affiliations.
_____

My project list for De Noc currently has 108 items. Some of these projects will take months of weekend work.....some will take just an hour or so.

There is also a 20-plus page list of additions planned for future drawings.
_____

I need a secretary. ;-)

Bear
 

illinoisplanner

Cyburbian
Messages
5,334
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Wow...that is crazy. I've tried doing a business list, and I've done some other basic lists...but the amount of detail you put into categorizing all the information that could be created out of your city is amazing. I have a lot of work to do in that area.

Very impressive...
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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Foxe Lake Road

One (1) of Metropolitan De Noc's primary roads is Foxe Lake Road. First developed by this Bear back in the 1960's as part of the southern suburb of Foxe Lake, this road has blossomed both west and east. It is completed (drawn) all the way to the western boundaries of the metro but I am still drawing portions of it on the eastern side of the area. Let's take a tour, from west to east, of the eighteen (18) miles that have been developed:

Forest Highway O is just a 2-lane east-west road when it comes out of the Rapid River National Forest. At Forest Highway 12 (a north-south road), the highway's name changes to Foxe Lake Road. The Road widens here and cruises past newer homes in the westernmost portion of the municipal limits of De Noc. (Note: Not "boxed in" by suburbs!)

Foxe Lake Road crosses I-98 (there is no interchange here) and goes next to and through portions of the Sturgeon River Greenbelt. The road crosses the pretty Sturgeon River and enters an area of newer factories and warehouses. The huge Challenger Warehouse Corporation warehouse hugs both sides of the road, with an enclosed conveyor system going over it.

Foxe Lake Road junctions with Wilson Farm Road and Circle Air Parkway, just south of the huge Northern Lights International Airport complex. Runway 36 is visible from the road as we continue east. The road leaves the De Noc limits and enters the community of Porcupine Lake. Foxe Lake Road is the main street of downtown Porcupine Lake. Here the road veers slightly northeast and again crosses I-98. At this location there is a major interchange.

The road turns back southeast and as it does Porcupine Lake is on the left, with big new homes lining its' shore. This real estate is some of the most expensive in the metro area. Foxe Lake Road re-enters the De Noc limits and uses a short bridge to cross Nahma Creek. Near here a very visible 22-story apartment tower that is just off to the south.

The housing stock in this area is primarily from the 1950's, with not a lot of retail development along the road. Foxe Lake Road crosses Sunshine Parkway and continues east, using a bridge to cross over a number of De Noc Beltway Railroad tracks. At this point the road enters the suburb of Valleyview. The road meanders past more high-rise apartments, gives the traveler a nice view of South Lake, and goes past the famous South Lake Arts theater. Foxe Lake Road crosses over Sandy Bottom Creek and turns to the northeast.

Foxe Lake Road now enters its' namesake city, Foxe Lake. It is the main avenue through town, crossing the Industrial Expressway and numerous factories as it continues east. Downtown Foxe Lake, located on the lake of the same name, is a classic 1950's suburb, with a healthy mixture of the old and the new. There is a small beach area, just behind the K-Mart Store. As the road moves away from downtown it crosses the creek-like Huntington River.

Foxe Lake Road continues east, going through an industrial area in the suburb of Coon Rapids. The road also junctions with the South Suburbs Bike Trail, the De Noc Trunk Line Railroad (at-grade crossing), and the Wayside Lake "feeder" expressway. At this point, the road enters the suburb of Red Sand.

The intersection of Foxe Lake Road and Elwood Boulevard is a very busy place. There are a significant number of small factories, businesses, and services in this area, including the large Rochell, Inc. steel scrap yard. A mile east is the junction with Long Lake Boulevard (NM 99) and an area with many big box stores, apartment complexes, and cul-de-sac sub-divisions. The road interchanges with the Northern Michigan Expressway (I-98) as it enters the city of Bywater. This area has a small skyline, with three (3) high-rise apartment buildings and a 22-story office tower.

As Foxe Lake Road continues east, it goes past more sub-divisions, more apartment complexes, and curves along the north side of Dancing Bear Lake. This area has a lot of parkland, bike trails, forest cover, and includes a large beach area on Dancing Bear Lake (no motors allowed). There is no development on Dancing Bear Lake.....it is surrounded by public land and access.

The road re-enters (again) the corporate limits of De Noc. Just north of the interchange of Foxe Lake Road and George Gipp Road is the sprawling campus of Patrick Stanley University (24,000 students). The road continues east.....
_____

That is as far east as I have drawn. Foxe Lake Road will continue its' eastward trek through St. Jaques, Angel Pointe, and Porcupine Pointe.....as soon as it is drawn. Other than limited-access highways, this road is the main east-west highway slicing through the southern portions of the metro.

Bear
 

Bear Up North

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The Suburbs

Metropolitan De Noc is filled with many suburban communities. Like most other large American cities, De Noc is surrounded by cities and villages that range from very-well-to-do to older housing stock 'burbs that were developed almost one-hundred (100) years ago. Here is the list, with comments on how I arrived at the name:

Western Suburbs
Des Plaines (Named after the famous Chicago suburb) (I pronounce it "Day Plains") :-D
Lakewood (Like its' neighbor Des Plaines, Lakewood is an older 'burb. It is on a lake.)
Rockland (Named after a quarry in the Toledo area that I have swam at.)
Elwood (Not named after a Blue Brother. Sorry. My younger brother suggested this name, circa 1966.)
West Elwood (It is located west of Elwood....duhhhh....)
Indian Springs (I saw the name on a Nevada map and grabbed it.)
Orangewood (It is on the shores of Orange Lake.)
Foxe Lake (Named after a great girlfriend from the 1960's. :) )
Coon Rapids (Name stolen from a Minneapolis area suburb.)
Valleyview (This suburb is in a river valley. It sounded goode.)
Cherry Heights (I honestly cannot remember why I chose this name.)
Porcupine Lake (I saw this name on a map and stole it.)
Hiawatha (Obvious North Woods and Native American reasoning.)
Winterwoods (Two reasons: Last name of an ex-wife and sounds like a northern place.)
Fairhaven (Largest suburb in square miles and population. Can't recall the reasoning.)
West Fairhaven (Duhh, again.....)
Skybear (My basketball ability. ;-) )
St. Vital (Real location name in this area in the Upper Peninsula.)
Rainy Lake (Suburb name of International Falls, MN....I hae been there and liked the name.)
Wolf Creek (Road name from Alpena, MI, area.)
Billy Good Lake (Real lake in U.P.)
Chicago Lake (Real lake in U.P.)
Mahskeekee Lake (Real lake in U.P.)
Highland Forest (Real place in U.P.)
Plum City (Real place in U.P.)
Little Marquette (My version of my fave U.P. big city.)
Alaska house (Cool tavern name in Ironwood, MI, in U.P.)
Katie Shores (Named after my wife.) :-D
Bailey Creek (Named after a basketball buddy.)

Eastern Suburbs
Southgate (Named after Detroit's downriver suburb.)
St. Jaques (Real place in U.P.)
Luna (My younger grand-daughter.)
Angel Pointe (My teenage grand-daughter.)
Germaine Spring (Real place in U.P.)
Porcupine Point (Real point of land in U.P.)
Swan Center (Real place in U.P.)
Little Fishdam (Real river in U.P.)
Jack Pine (Tavern north of real Manistique, U.P.)
Tee (My brother's first initial.)
Isabella (Real place in U.P.)
Norse Mountain (Stolen from a couple maps.)
City Of Industry (Obvious theft.)
Joland (Name of ex-GF that I lived with for a year.)
Mohawk Park (Cannot remember. One of my oldest suburbs.)
Kingstown (Used to see King Auto Sales commercials on Detroit TV.)
Moss Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Eastland (I had just come from going to Detroit's Westland Mall, about 1970.)
Cinderdale (First wife's name was Cindy.)
Royal Orchard (Slight change of Detroit's suburb of Royal Oak.)

Northern Suburbs
Wildwood (Sounded cool. One of the very first 'burbs.)
Slater (Cannot remember why.)
Brookley (Slight change to the name Brooklyn.)
Flowing Well (Real U.P. place.)
Rumble Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Slowfoot Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Little Bass Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Thunder Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Camp Seven (Real place in the U.P.)
Whitmer (My high school.)
Francis (My middle name.....but don't tell anybody. :-c ;-) :-D :) )
Frying Pan Lake (Real lake in the U.P.)
Roxbury (When I was in high school I always listened to Boston's WBZ and they always mentioned Roxbury.)

Southern Suburbs
Bywater (From "The Lord Of The Rings".)
Whitefish (The fish that made the U.P. famous.....great smoked!)
Stony Pointe (Real U.P. point of land, less the famous and irritating "e".)
Poplar Pointe (Ditto.)
Lakeview (It is located on Lake Michigan.)
Sunset Beach (The name of a beach on a real U.P. lake.)
Nahma Junction (A real U.P. place.)
Red Sand (Sounded cool. No other reason.)
_____

Based on seeing all of these suburbs....each with it's own school system, each with its' own services (fire, police, etc.).....do you think regional government would work? Be acceptable to a metro that is as NIMBY-fied as any real place?

Dang, my metro is TOO realistic.

Bear Counting Suburbs
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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Did Not Gerrymand

This week I have been working on the school district project in De Noc. Determining boundaries, general population within those boundaries, and number of students per/high school (to clarify sports team classes). To assist with that project I took my Excel Spreadsheet colorful plat map and deleted all of the suburbs.

I had never done that before. I was amazed at the result.

If you look at the boundaries of just the city of De Noc it looks like a congressional district map that was plotted in some Republican or Democratic office. The bulk of the city, about 120 square miles, is a relatively "square" geographic area. The balance of the 644-acre plats (another 100) are in "tentacle-like" areas that stick out from the main body.

Each of these long, skinny De Noc corporate areas are surrounded by suburbs. The "tentacle" area that works it way to the southwest is nearly nine (9) miles long but only a mile or two (2) wide. A slightly-wider and shorter "tentacle" extends due south from the main square area in the central core of De Noc, an attempt to have De Noc corporate limits hug the Lake Michigan shoreline.

First of all.....this was not intended. I always viewed my creation as a whole (as a marketing person would).

Second of all.....it spurred me to wonder if there are other central cities that would look like a "blob creature with arms and legs" if you only viewed the corporate limits.

And.....It also spurred me to think that I had NOT completely surrounded any suburb with De Noc boundaries.

Bear (Secret Strategist)
 

DetroitPlanner

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
6,238
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27
Bear Up North said:
....it spurred me to wonder if there are other central cities that would look like a "blob creature with arms and legs" if you only viewed the corporate limits.

This is actually a relatively normal development pattern for something. Take a look at Monroe Michigan's urbanized area. It appears to be a splatted frog, with extensions along US-24, M-50, and hugging the shores of Lake Erie. Transportation and desire has a lot to do with screwing up all location theory / central places models. It takes a very long time to fill in the arms and legs pieces of development. There are still surprisingly large voids in the suburban Detroit area where development should have happened if everything grew concentricly (moved out together from the center).
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,323
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31
De Noc SkyTube - "Get Over...Get Under"

On my day off this week one (1) of the items (from my long list) that I worked on was further development (and clarification) of the system of skywalks and tunnels that connect many of the major buildings in downtown De Noc. I feel comfortable that a metro of 2,000,000 could have a large system like I developed because there are good examples in Minneapolis, St. Paul, Des Moines, and Calgary.

My system has been christened SKYTUBE. With a friendly little directional philosophy of "Get over...get under", this system is a combination of elevated skywalks (skyways) and tunnels under the streets. Most major buildings are either connected directly to SKYTUBE or are connected to buildings that are connected to SKYTUBE.

There are twenty-one (21) elevated skywalks and forty-eight (48) pedestrian tunnels. Generally speaking, if you are walking through the maze of downtown buildings, as long as you stay in the direction you started, your steps will stay in either a skywalk or a tunnel. If you make a turn and head in a different direction, you will probably be using an escalator to change your mode.

Even though the system was hand-drawn on my downtown plat, I wanted to get a more-detailed feel for SKYTUBE. To accomplish this, I used my best friend, Excel Spreadsheet. I am very satisfied with the result, as it looks as good or better than similar maps and charts that are available on the internet (for all of those competing cities).

I also wanted to give each separate concourse (skywalk or tunnel) an identifying number (as they do in the "real" places). The downtown area was divided into four (4) areas....NW, NE, SW, SE. A skywalk in the northwest part of the central business district (the department store district) will have an identifier such as NW03S. That indicates it is in the northwest area, it is number three (3) on the list for this area, and it is a Skywalk (elevated pedestrian walkway), connecting major buildings. In this example NW03S is connecting The Tiger Department Store with The Shops On Washington. The glass-enclosed walkway crosses over Washington Street.

Another example would be SW15T. This is a "tube" (tunnel) in the southwest part of the CBD, connecting The Centurion Hotel with The De Noc Convention Center. This tunnel is underneath Service Avenue.

My original design concept for DNTS (De Noc Transit System) monorail trains was for a single station in the downtown area and a station next to the Convention Center. After spending a couple years reading the Cyburbia posts (transit) and following Cyburbia-inspired links, I have added a couple more stations. I plan on adding more, to realistically handle a large office daytime office population in a very vibrant downtown district. The stations I do have are connected via SKYTUBE to the main grid, so commuters can get in to the CBD and never step out in the cold Northern Michigan weather. SKYTUBE also connects to the five (5) People-Mover Stations that are located downtown. (You can also take a spur from the People-Mover out to the baseball stadium and basketball/hockey arena, located a mile west of downtown.)

Because I was designing all of this AFTER the 911 events, I limited the SKYTUBE access to any government buildings.....funneling pedestrians to single tubes that are more secure. What that would mean to the average government office worker is this: To use SKYTUBE, they would always be coming and going from a single entrance, sometimes creating a long walk around. That's OK, too.....there are many nice weather days in this corner of the world and they could use the normal sidewalks.

Further development of this project will be identifying the "retail" corridors in the concourses and charting all of that retail. I do have a feel for these types of pedestrian systems, because I have spent considerable time in Toronto's PATH system, and some limited time in the Minneapolis and Cincinnati systems.

De Noc SkyTube - "Get over...get under."

Bear
 

DetroitPlanner

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
6,238
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27
Get ready for the blast. You have defliled Whilliam's Whyte's work. Watch for the planner's wrath refarding your new SKYTUBE system. Especially from those that do not deal with the extreme cold! ;-)
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
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DetroitPlanner said:
Get ready for the blast. You have defliled Whilliam's Whyte's work. Watch for the planner's wrath refarding your new SKYTUBE system. Especially from those that do not deal with the extreme cold! ;-)

The few things this non-planner (by trade) knows about Whyte and his group is that they are proponents of urban parks, sidewalk cafes :p , etc. Yes, I have read some studies about the demise of streetside retail when you have a system such as SKYTUBE.

OTOH.....the system appears to be quite successful in the places I have mentioned, including Minneapolis and Calgary (both places similar in size and climate to my mythical De Noc).

Bear
 

DetroitPlanner

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
6,238
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Bear Up North said:
The few things this non-planner (by trade) knows about Whyte and his group is that they are proponents of urban parks, sidewalk cafes :p , etc. Yes, I have read some studies about the demise of streetside retail when you have a system such as SKYTUBE.

OTOH.....the system appears to be quite successful in the places I have mentioned, including Minneapolis and Calgary (both places similar in size and climate to my mythical De Noc).

Bear


I'm impressed! I've visited both cities. Toronto does much the same thiing, but its underground.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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De Noc Gallery Now Open

This Bear just created a De Noc picture gallery, here in the halls of Cyburbia. The first three (3) photos turned out lousy. I am just learning how to use the silly camera. Oh, for the days with my Pentax K-1000 with zoom. :-$

Blurry, not bright enough. Kind of like the photographer.

Oh, well.....I am trying.

Bear With Fujifilm S3000 And Ten (10) Thumbs
 
Messages
146
Points
6
Your digital camera might have a "document" mode that might get better shots.
Interesting thread, it would be interesting to see what you'd make in Sim City (the non-Amish one). But it sounds like you get a lot of enjoyment out of it this way.


Bear Up North said:
This Bear just created a De Noc picture gallery, here in the halls of Cyburbia. The first three (3) photos turned out lousy. I am just learning how to use the silly camera. Oh, for the days with my Pentax K-1000 with zoom. :-$

Blurry, not bright enough. Kind of like the photographer.

Oh, well.....I am trying.

Bear With Fujifilm S3000 And Ten (10) Thumbs
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,837
Points
26
mentarman said:
Your digital camera might have a "document" mode that might get better shots.
Interesting thread, it would be interesting to see what you'd make in Sim City (the non-Amish one). But it sounds like you get a lot of enjoyment out of it this way.
I don't think taking photos of the maps is the best way to get a better view, it's the quickest way, but I bet it'd look way better scanned, although it'd be one pain in the behinds to do so...:p But still, at least with the photos you can make an idea.. and it's quite cool.

Now for regular sim city it'd be difficult because the game comes with it's own set of rigid rules and limitations. For example, you can't make mixed uses, you can't make things smaller that 1 cell, etc...
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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More On Street Names

Another thread (in the more "serious" forums) discusses the ways in which we name our streets. Here are some of the major street and road names I have used in my fake city, De Noc (and suburbs):

Downtown Grid.....My north-south streets in the downtown area are named after U.S. presidents, including Washington, Van Buren, Adams, etc. The east-west streets are named after western U.S. states, including California, Nevada, New Mexico, etc.

Downtown De Noc's main artery is Grand River Boulevard (U.S. 2), running east-west. The main north-south downtown artery is Long Lake Boulevard (Northern Michigan 99).

Fairhaven.....The largest suburb, Fairhaven (104,550), has main arteries that include St. Thomas, St. Louis, St. Francis, etc., so you could say that the community street names have a sort of "theme".

Southwest Areas.....There is a theme of sorts in the southwestern area of De Noc and the southwestern suburbs. That theme is naming major streets and roads after U.S. cities. These include Columbus Avenue (Northern Michigan 102), Detroit Avenue, Cleveland Avenue, etc.

Others.....Here are some other major streets and roads in the metro:

Northern Lights Avenue
Alaska House Road
Nahma Circle Boulevard
Foxe Lake Road
Canada Drive
West Warwick Hills Boulevard
Western Avenue
Bywater Pike
Skybear Highway
Franklin Avenue
Indian Boulevard
Dearborn Avenue
Gulf Avenue (Northern Michigan 109)
Devonshire Boulevard
Cold Cactus Boulevard
Oakland Boulevard
Blue Ridge Parkway (Northern Michigan 99)
Richland Boulevard
Capitol Parkway
Lexington Boulevard
Alpha Boulevard
Roxbury Trail
Wildwood Avenue
George Gipp Avenue
East Harbor Trail
Wixey Hills Trail
Yankee Avenue

The Old Standards
Northeastern Boulevard
Northwestern Avenue
Southwestern Highway
_____

It is very important that you know this. There will be test later. ;)

Bear
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
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What? No streets named after influential Cyburbians? Like Dan Expressway, Rumpy Place, etc... :p

Oh and what can I do to go live in De Noc? Are there any houses available? :D You know that might be fun... letting Cyburbians inhabit your city ;)
 

Bear Up North

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SkeLeton said:
What? No streets named after influential Cyburbians? Like Dan Expressway, Rumpy Place, etc... :p

Oh and what can I do to go live in De Noc? Are there any houses available? :D You know that might be fun... letting Cyburbians inhabit your city ;)

Actually, in the last year or so, I have named some places after the screen names we all know and love here in sunny Cyburbia. :-D
_____

It would be uncomfortable.....but interesting.....if Cyburbians were to live or even visit Metropolitan De Noc. I have always said that I am not a planner and my fake city is not an attempt to create a well-planned community. Rather, I have treated it as if it was a real place, growing with many similarities to other larger USA metros.

Cyburbian planner types would tear apart some of the things that I have "allowed" to happen, including the usual big city sprawl (big boxes hugging crowded and wide expressways), historical neighborhoods wrecking balled so tall public housing could be plopped-in (Soviet-style...:-c ), large inland lakes surrounded by McMansions (cutting off good public access), and seemingly non-existent zoning.

Cyburbian planner types would appreciate the heavily-funded monorail system, the growing system of rails-to-trails development, and the emphasis on meeting and exceeding park and recreation standards.

Bear
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,789
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Hey Bear Could you address DeNoc's potential position on
the Urban/Wildland Fire Interface Issue;
either AIB the recent grass fires in Texas/Oklahoma or somthing measuring on the historic Peshtigo level ?
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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JNA said:
Hey Bear Could you address DeNoc's potential position on
the Urban/Wildland Fire Interface Issue;
either AIB the recent grass fires in Texas/Oklahoma or somthing measuring on the historic Peshtigo level ?

As always, great question from Cyburbia's resident JNA.

Because of the metros location, surrounded on three (3) sides by heavily-forested state and national acreage, a good fire plan should be developed. I have none, so you have giving me something else to do some research on. Thank the lucky stars for the internet.....I couldn't afford to drive to the library every time I had a question or had to do some "logical" research. :-D

In the real Upper Peninsula the last major fire was in the 1980's. This large fire was in the peat that is below the surface. In the late 1800's the town of Ontonagon had a fire that destroyed just about everything.

Bear On Back Of Pumper
 
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146
Points
6
You talked a bit about this, but I'd be interested to know more about the news media in De Noc. Newspapers (you've talked about a bit), television stations, radio, magazines. In addition to local media, I'm sure the Associated Press has a bureau and other national news organizations have at least a small presence since it's a large metro, the state capitol, and has such exhuberantly named sports teams.

Also, have you seen this site for comparing cities? www.city-data.com
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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mentarman said:
You talked a bit about this, but I'd be interested to know more about the news media in De Noc. Newspapers (you've talked about a bit), television stations, radio, magazines. In addition to local media, I'm sure the Associated Press has a bureau and other national news organizations have at least a small presence since it's a large metro, the state capitol, and has such exhuberantly named sports teams.

Also, have you seen this site for comparing cities? www.city-data.com

I did mention newspapers in another post, in this thread. Yes, De Noc has a significant number of radio stations and television stations. (They also have a cable service.)

Years ago, my younger brother was a "DX'er".....a geek who listens to the radio and attempts to pick up broadcasts from a very long distance away. DX'ers would send the broadcast details to the station and get a small card back that indicated you heard their signal. My bro also had a huge book of radio station call letters, so I developed my plan.....and that was back in the 1960's.

Over the years I have added both radio stations and television stations, as the metro has grown. Using data from web sites such as city-data.com I have always steered-clear of call letters that were already used. Because I thought that call letters starting with a "K" were cool, my metro is a mix of "W" and "K" call letter first letters.

There are a couple "K" stations east of the Mississippi. :-D

I never actually identified De Noc has having an office of the AP or any other group. I may be a real geek but I don't have the time to name EVERY single business in every single building. I do name every single building. :-c

I also developed what was a "fourth" major TV network and placed its' world headquarters and studios in De Noc. It is based on a local Toledo legend, D.H. Overmyer, who WAS attempting to establish a fourth network, way back in the day. My network.....OTN.

Of course, that was all drawn before the day of WB and Fox and the huge influence of cable networks.

Bear Doing The News
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
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New Project List

Cyburbia received a bit of a break from The Bear this past week. I was spending a considerable amount of "billing hours" ;) re-working my massive De Noc Project List. The original list was in WORD, and was date sequential. To my logical mind (a real pain most of the time :-c ) some massive re-numbering, priority sequencing, and project enhancement was necessary.

I moved every single project to an EXCEL spreadsheet. The projects were re-grouped into categories, enabling me to get a quick take on the overall status of any major group of projects. Every project was given a new number, improved details of the project goal(s), status and last-worked-on date of the project, and references to research or other projects that are/were deemed necessary for success.

An example would be Waterfront Development. Metropolitan De Noc has prime waterfront on Lake Michigan's Big Bay De Noc and prime waterfront on many inland lakes. Over the years, the communities grew much the same as other major metros.....primo land on the water is gobbled-up by deep-pocket developers or land-hungry industries.

In the new spreadsheet I have a number of projects grouped in to the Waterfront Development category. Included are projects to identify private versus public waterfront property, extent of present development, ownership of property, and public access to waterfront. My goal on the main project is to develop a formal MASTER PLAN and follow that plan as I continue to work on the communities.

The EXCEL advantage also gives me quick access to estimated hours required for each project.....something that I am still cleaning up. EXCEL also gives me the ability to create some charts and graphs so all of my fellow office employees (2 dogs and 3 cats) can share in the completion stats. ;) EXCEL also makes it easy for me to Gantt Chart the projects, a project I completed on Saturday night. (Big party evening for me, obviously. :r: )

I have twenty (20) major groups of projects. Nine-three (93) separate projects are included in these major groups. The grand total of all separate projects is one-hundred-forty-eight (148). Some of these projects may only require an hour or two (2) of time (perhaps at the drawing table). But many involve some detailed research, via the internet, etc., with time requirements of hundreds of hours.

BTW.....my new listings include references to different Cyburbia threads and posts that inspired or involve some of the projects. Thank you for your help. (Bill me. ;) )

First thing I will do this morning is run a SAVE DISC. :-c :-D :)

Bear
 
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