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SW MI Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,195
Points
26
Florida Muslim Woman Challenges Driver License Photo Requirement
VOA News
27 May 2003, 18:59 UTC

A Muslim woman is to appear in a Florida court this week to argue she should be allowed to wear a veil that covers most of her face in a driver's license photo. The state revoked the license of Sultaana Freeman after she refused to have a replacement photograph taken with her face uncovered. Only her eyes are visible in the old license, which local reports say was revoked in a security review months after the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. The state says the full-face photograph requirement is for public safety.

Mrs. Freeman's lawyer says his client believes allowing a photo to be taken of her face uncovered would violate the Koran, the Muslim holy book. The attorney, hired by the American Civil Liberties Union, says the state is violating her freedom of religion by demanding the new photo.

Another article and picture is here. What do you think?
 
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5,353
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Why not let Klansmen take their photos with their sheets on? Or cat burglars with ski masks on?

I think there are many Muslim women who follow the Koran but don't wear veils over their faces.

If all of us have to endure horrible drivers license pictures, then she should too. Take it off!!
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,387
Points
25
I'm not sure all laws should be changed to fit all religious requirements.

In this case, I say no veil, or no driver's license.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
If she is really that devout of a muslim, why is her husband/father letting her drive a car?

Seriously though, this seems to just be a media ploy by a religious zealot.
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
Bottom line is that driving is a privilege, not a right. And ditto what donk said. Besides, the veil could be seen as a safety issue since it has the potential to obscure her vision, not to mention what sane person wears a head to toe black shroud in central Florida in the summer?!
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
She's a hottie!

I believe the persons religious freedoms come second to the State's - and our - right to be able to identify some one. Would American Airlines let her board a plane with that photo ID? I think not.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
If she refuses to unveil, they should not issue a drivers license. A license is a privelege, not a right. There is nowhere in the constitution that says you have a right to a driver's license. There is a legitimate governmental interest in forcing her to unveil. The lawyers are making the case that prior to 9-11 she could wear the veil, well prior to 9-11 people didn't fly planes into buildings either, so in the post 9-11 era all Americans have a responsibility to have adequate identification. If she did get to wear the veil for the driver's license, what happens when she goes to the airport to board a plane and they deny her because they are unsure if it is really her? Will she sue then too?
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
The Orlando Sentinel has a photo shown in court yesterday; the woman's mug shot from 1998. So she's been photo'd for other government reasons. BTW, she is a "converted" Muslim who began wearing the veil in 1997.
 
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donk said:
If she is really that devout of a muslim, why is her husband/father letting her drive a car?

Seriously though, this seems to just be a media ploy by a religious zealot.
agreed. i'm sorry, but what is the point of having the drivers license photo then.

on a separate note, i'd love to be the underaged girl who got passed that i.d. out of the bar! :)
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
donk said:
If she is really that devout of a muslim, why is her husband/father letting her drive a car?
Agreed. If she wants to wear the veil, let her also have the same repressed lifestyle of women in other countries who wear it. They don't drive.
 

Trail Nazi

Cyburbian
Messages
2,779
Points
24
No photo, no driver's license. We all have the right to have our religious freedoms, but not when public safety overrides. Come on, what do the people who believe that a photograph of themselves will steal their souls do? They probably grin and bear it and get the license. Religious zealots are truly evil beings.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
donk said:
If she is really that devout of a muslim, why is her husband/father letting her drive a car?

Seriously though, this seems to just be a media ploy by a religious zealot.

Quaa-pshhhhh to the first statement- totally what I was thinking. I don't feel for her in any sense, driving is a privledge. What about peripheral vision, is that affected?
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,465
Points
44
I know a guy who had is front window tinted because his eyes where sensitive to light. The cop gave him a ticket, and said then he should not be driving.

I think that she should not have a licence if she is going to do that. Can she get on a plane if she had a veil on? And how would that be a picture ID? I don't think so.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
In addition to not being able to board a plane she would not be permitted into most other countries without photo ID.

Looks like someone will be taking the bus.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Veil = No license. The intent of the photo is to allow people (such as police or other authorities, to identify the license-holder. The veil would not permit this to happen. The license (hers or others like it) could be used by others for illigitimate purposes. The license is a government document which a person may elect to, but is not madated to get. A condition of getting it is that your photo is taken. If you do not want your photo to be taken, do not get a license.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
donk said:
In addition to not being able to board a plane she would not be permitted into most other countries without photo ID.

Looks like someone will be taking the bus.
Wonder if she would be able to get a US passport without the photo? I can't see that happening, either.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
BKM said:
Boy, not very sympathetic, are we? :)
I can imagine the scene now...

Al (The DMV Employee): C'mon now, erm... [looks down at the paperwork] ...Mahirisha, lift up that ol' veil for Uncle Al and give me a big smile.

Mahirisha: [In broken English] You are... first man... see this woman face... except husband.

Al: WHOA! Holy smokes! Hold on a sec...

Mahirisha: But...

Al: [Grabbing co-worker] Man, you have GOT to see this...

Joe: Yeeeeeeeeeeeee... Now THAT is ugly! I mean, a face that could back a mule away from an oat bin...

Al: No joke, eh? And even a nasty tan line across the bridge of the nose, no less!

Joe: Think we can change our mind and let her use the veil?

Al: Sure... Hey, erm, [looks down at the paperwork] ...Mahirisha, go 'head and use that thing, eh? Freedom of religion and all.

[Fade to black]




Or was that just plain mean?
 
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Jessie-J

Cyburbian
Messages
386
Points
12
please touch the screen

she'll have to wait to get her license in the US until the government moves to instant finger-printing identification....which will probably not be anytime soon....
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
Maybe she can get the ID with the veil on -- provided she always wears the same color veil. For ID purposes, of course.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
You would have thought 9-11 would have ended all this nonsense. If she wins her fight surely we will be witnessing the death of common sense.
 

Floridays

Cyburbian
Messages
769
Points
21
Based on an article in today's Sun Sentinal, I don't think she's going to "win" this one. As written:
Khaled Abou El Fadl, a law professor at the University of California-Los Angeles who specializes in Islam, the Middle East and human rights, said he believes Sultaana Freemancould uncover her face for a drivers license photograph because it serves a specific, limited purpose.

article can be found at:
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/orl-locveil29052903may29,0,6103061.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
Consider this tidbit from CNN.

Driver’s identification rules in Muslim nations:
Saudi Arabia: Women aren't allowed to drive
Iran: Women wear a traditional chador, which does not cover the face.
Egypt: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
United Arab Emirates: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Oman: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Kuwait: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Qatar: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Bahrain: Women do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
Jordan: Women can drive if their faces are covered but do not cover their face in I.D. pictures
 

prudence

Cyburbian
Messages
688
Points
20
The Smoking Gun

It seems our mystery woman has a face...and a criminal record.

Beating a foster child...she has just qualified to be the hood ornament on the bus to hell...
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
I wonder what this thread would of looked liked pre-911?

Regardless,

I agree, with the masses here, it is sort of ridiculous to be soooooooo religious you cant take a photo, but her man lets her drive!? I mean come on!? There is no argument here.


No foto = no ID
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
The thread would look the same- you have to have your face uncovered to get an i.d.
 
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