Do you know any good web design forums? (Rant about Internet Forums)

[Michele Zone]

[Rant]
I have referred to this in another thread: I posted to a forum for web designers and there was a pile -on of people telling me how to run my life, basically. So, at some point, I kind of said "this is all off topic and has nothing to do with the question of the original poster, please contact me privately or start a new thread if you have anything further to say". Well, that didn't end it, in fact the MODERATOR has written two LENGTHY posts telling me how ate up I am. Gee, thanks, as a newbie to the forum, I so appreciate that. Someone who is apparently not a moderator has finally said "can we please move on?"

A) If you happen to be a member of the human species and have any clue whatsoever, you should defend the new person from long-time members abusing their social position of power and walking all over them.

B) The actions of the list owner and moderator(s) are "seminal": the character of how they conduct themselves will deeply effect how others conduct themselves. Because the Internet is such a wild west kind of frontier, the only meaningful leadership is "lead by example": if the folks in charge act civilized and respectful, you will have a generally civilized and respectful climate. If they act like jerks, so will other people.

C) Blaming the newbie for not knowing the culture and publicly lecturing them is a great way to discourage lots of new people from bothering to join in and encourages existing members to be elitist and exclusionary and several other things that I can't think of the words for right now.

D) A lengthy lecture of ME when no one that I was arguing with had so much as 2 words said to them is blatant bias and where does this twit get off on saying crap like "I am sorry you feel you have been insulted.." in the midst of her adding insult to injury with her lengthy lecture of me???

E) God, it makes me so tempted to say something sweepingly judgmental like 'Are ALL web designers that deficient in social skills???" except I know other web designers and they aren't like that. It is something inherent to that particular forum and it obviously comes from the top down: the moderator has no social skills and no clue, so the forum has none and never will. It is no wonder traffic there is so incredibly low.

F) Thank god for decently run forums like Cyburbia and a few others that I hang out in. I am having an Elitist Snob day in which I think most folks are too freakin' stupid to bother to talk to and too freakin' stupid to figure out a few obvious basics about how to moderate and too freakin' stupid to be this upset over. :-D So, being able to come here means I will refrain from digging out my old turtle shell and ignoring the entire world.

Okay, time for me to remove that forum from my list of forums I occasionally surf. It isn't worth it.
[/rant]
Anyone know any good web design forums to surf/hang in???

 

[boiker]

I always use tek-tips.com for any techy related questions.. I've had wonderful response regarding VBA development for word and access and excel. I can't comment on the RSS, JAVA, HTML, XML help.

 

[Achernar]

Web design is a hobby of mine, but I'm no expert in it. I learn HTML the same way I learn planning from Cyburbia: by being extremely cautious and patient. I subscribe to the webdesign-L mailing list, and I've used the Usenet groups comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html and comp.infosystems.www.authoring.site-design. I have a much thinner skin than you do; I wouldn't think of posting a question to these unless I've prepped for a couple of hours and considered my problem from several different angles.

Now, I don't know about your specific situation, but I can make an educated guess as to what happened, as I've seen it dozens of times before. If I'm right, I need to say something you might not want to hear: the fact that the Elitist Snobs are right doesn't excuse their bad behavior. I know it feels like they're telling you how to run your life, but there really are good reasons for it that aren't immediately obvious. I myself try to be nice about it. When a web design newbie asks how to do something that's a bad idea, I try to explain how to do it and also explain why it shouldn't be done. It's unfortunate when they just want the answer and don't want to listen to anything else, just as it's unfortunate when people who answer questions don't bother to explain why the right way is better. The internet really could be a better place if proper design practices were accepted.

Anyway, if you can't get help anywhere else, I'll be happy to help personally if I can. I can't help with PHP/VBA/RSS, though. Just HTML/XML/CSS/Javascript.

 

[Michele Zone]

Archernar, I wasn't asking for advice at all in that forum. I have no real criticism of the technical advice that was so rudely crammed down my throat when I didn't ask for it, although I don't entirely agree with it.

In essence, someone who made it clear that they knew nothing about coding asked for feedback. They got a lot of technical mumbo jumbo about coding, even though they made it clear that they were using a template. I made some suggestions about LAYOUT, something I have training and experience with, and, again, everyone jumped down my throat about coding. The title of the forum indicates it is for Web DESIGNERS. I am considering applying for a web design job that explicitly states that you do not have to do the coding end of it -- they want the graphics, etc, DESIGNED. That is something I feel competent to do. The forum is incredibly biased and the moderator dismissed my comments about layout with the idea that the graphics end of it was basically just "pretty" and inconsequential and open to interpretation but the coding end of it had clear professional standards. That is utter BS. Layout and graphics work also has some clear standards that are teachable. Duh!

And I was not calling THEM "elitist snobs". I was humorously calling me an elitist snob, something I have been accused of on occasion. I do not think I really am an elitist snob. And the long explanation of that would surely make me sound like an Elitist Snob, so let's not go there. :-}

EDIT: I also meant to say thanks for the suggestions as to where to go...er, as to what forums you use. Sorry, my manners are slipping. I do not mean to take out my frustration on you. I was just trying to explain that, really, I do not think it is because I am thin-skinned or don't want to listen. I take critiques of my work reasonably well, I think.

 

[boiker]

...I made some suggestions about LAYOUT, something I have training and experience with, and, again, everyone jumped down my throat about coding.

Having hung out with plenty of programmers over the years, they can be some of the most high-strung, insulting, socially inept @ssholes you'll ever meet. A lot will not consider web design through a GUI as web design. They'll boast of how they hand-coded a 16 page tribute site to Winger complete with graphics tables, guestbooks and java that plays midi files. They'll denounce those who use frontpage, golive, or other page software whenever they get the chance.. They'll quip, "The only program I ever needed was notepad!" as they mumble an insult and pride themselves on their abilty to type HTML in their sleep.

Find the right forum. Luckily, there are programmers that understand there are different levels of experience. Asking for example code to accomplish what you intend is often a great way to learn.. Offer to drop in a "META" tag indicating courtesy or copyright acknowledgement....even if you alter the code.

PM me your request.. i might be able to steer you in the right direction...althought I haven't done HTML in forever.

 

[Achernar]

Okay, I'm sorry. I thought you did ask for help with something you couldn't get help on. My mistake. And with that, I don't really know how the discussion went down or what it was about, so I can't defend them any more. It does sound like they weren't listening to what you had to say, so what I said earlier applies, the other way around.

I should warn you that the phrase "web design" is generally a lot closer in meaning to "web development" than "graphical design for the web". I'm not telling you how to use it, and if your potential job uses it the other way, that's fine with me. I just want you to know what to expect when you see that phrase as the title of a message board or something.

 

[Michele Zone]

Having hung out with plenty of programmers over the years, they can be some of the most high-strung, insulting, socially inept @ssholes you'll ever meet.

Very OT tangent here:
Yeah, I know. That is actually a common issue in all kinds of gifted circles. And there are high rates of Asperger's traits in fields like programming. Sigh.

I know too much about how people end up like that to really hate them for it. I just don't want to waste my time on a forum that is run like that, where it doesn't matter how reasonable or forgiving I am, I am the proverbial Pink Monkey and will be torn to shreds for not acting like a herd animal and going along with the party line. And then I will be informed that my behavior is the problem and no one else has done anything wrong, etc.

I have a son who was probably autistic when he was little and would still certainly qualify for a diagnosis of Asperger's (but I have never had him formally diagnosed). I run a forum for kids with Aspie traits, and for their families who are trying to figure out a better way to cope. I am increasingly labeled "an expert" in twice exceptional issues and increasingly pressured to publish my understanding of the syndrome and of how to effectively raise kids who are like that and teach them to live well and get along. My son can be a "typical aspie" at times when he takes things too literally and his comments can sound twisted because of it. But he has been raised with fairly good social skills. Aspies can learn social skills, they just do not learn them "by osmosis" like "normal" people. And many of them never have such things adequately taught to them because most folks figure you are just supposed to "know" and if you do not, you are simply 'stupid'. It isn't true.

Oh, god. I should just Shut Up. The shorter version goes something like this:

I know how obnoxious and antisocial brilliant people can be. That was me in high school. I gave up a national merit scholarship and walked away from the identity of "I am so brilliant" to go fall on my face and look like an incompetent dolt, trying to clean house and raise kids for a few years. So I have tons of sympathy for obnoxious @ssholes. I was a card-carrying obnoxious @sshole for years. I know why they are like that. I just don't see any reason to act like a doormat and let them wipe their feet on me. :-D

EDIT: and, in a belated attempt to remove my foot from my mouth: I sincerely appreciate the emotional support. I do.