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Eu

Dragon

Cyburbian
Messages
750
Points
21
After reading this news article, I have a question for the Throbbing Brain.

What do you think about the EU? Good, bad, Indifferent? What, if any, affects do you think they will/do have on the World?
 

The One

Cyburbian
Messages
8,289
Points
30
Hmmmm.

A happy Europe is a Happy World!
Didn't the Germans say something similar to Poland just before invading in the late 30's?

I can't listen to that much Wagner. I start getting the urge to conquer Poland.
Woody Allen (1935 - )
 

mgk920

Cyburbian
Messages
4,202
Points
26
Dragon said:
After reading this news article, I have a question for the Throbbing Brain.

What do you think about the EU? Good, bad, Indifferent? What, if any, affects do you think they will/do have on the World?
I actually see a LOT of similarities between the Europe of today, with the _voluntary_ coalescing of the European Union, and the USA of about 220 years ago. The giving up of various pieces of sovereignty for the greater common good; the common currency (the Euro); the rapid, peacefull and voluntary expansion of the EU; the ongoing debate among the members regarding the scope and power of the central EU parlaiment; etc; all have parallels with the USA of the late 18th and early-mid 19th centuries.

We are also in the midst of one of the longest periods of European peace that we have ever seen in recorded history, so it cannot be all bad. ;-)

Mike
 

DecaturHawk

Cyburbian
Messages
880
Points
22
I guess I see a lot of potential problems. Europe has become more and more secularist, abandoning its historical Christian roots. One of the results is that in most European countries, population growth among natives has fallen below replacement levels, with growth (if any) resulting from in-migration. By far the largest group of migrants have come from Islamic countries, and the growth of Islam in Europe has been phenomenal. If, over time, radical European Islamist groups become dominant in culture and politics (and I'm not saying this WILL happen, but the potential is there, even if it takes 50-100 years or more), it would certainly be easier to dominate the EU than it would have been to dominate a host of smaller countries. The implications for the US are obvious.

Catholic commentator George Weigel makes an interesting argument along these lines in the February issue of First Things. If anyone is interested, the link to the article is here.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
Eurpoe has been in turmoil because of its parochial attitudes for centuries. I welcome the EU, although I think DecaturHawk has some intersting and potentially valid points (although I thing they are also stemming from parochial paradigms), but I doubt extremism in any one religious sect is going to take hold in this new greater europe.
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
923
Points
22
The EU has population and GDP similar to the U.S., so it could have an equivalent world influence as the U.S. -- if it truly develops freedom of currency and movement similar to the U.S.

I think that is good to have another major power. The U.S. needs a counterbalance. It's not good to have only one economic and military superpower. The leader of that one superpower might be tempted to use that power inappropriately and use some fake information to start a war.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
I think the EU is good for the world, not necessarily good for the US.

I read a book a couple of years ago called The End of the American Era by Charles Kupchan, and this guy argued that the biggest challenge to US world dominance (economically, culturally and militarily) will come from Europe, and that the US should welcome Europe's united appearance on the world stage rather than fight it. He compared it with the British Empire welcoming the US to the world stage in the late 19th century.

Kupchan had an interview in December 2002 on this.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,908
Points
57
From a purely selfish point-of-view:
The EU and the acceptance of the "federalized" euro currency has ruined one of the benefits of foreign travel in Europe. The strong Euro has messed up perfectly good exchange rates; especially in Italy. When I was in Italy in 1999 (when the Lira was still the national currency), my dollar went much further than it would now that Italy has the Euro which is currently stronger than the dollar. I'm being both sarcastic and serious here. :)

From a global peace point-of-view:
The EU is certainly a good thing, which hopefully, in the future, will prevent the massive destruction brought in Europe over the past two centuries.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
mendelman said:
From a purely selfish point-of-view:
The EU and the acceptance of the "federalized" euro currency has ruined one of the benefits of foreign travel in Europe. The strong Euro has messed up perfectly good exchange rates; especially in Italy. When I was in Italy in 1999 (when the Lira was still the national currency), my dollar went much further than it would now that Italy has the Euro which is currently stronger than the dollar. I'm being both sarcastic and serious here. :)

From a global peace point-of-view:
The EU is certainly a good thing, which hopefully, in the future, will prevent the massive destruction brought in Europe over the past two centuries.
From a US political/economic point-of-view:
The EU will emerge as a serious economic competitor to us, and as they grow in economic stature they will challenge us more politically. The rift between the US and the EU nations at the outset of the Iraq War is just the start of a new relationship with Europe; they won't be enemies, but definitely competitors, and our nation's economic status may slip a bit as a result.
 
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