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Land use: general Existing Wal-Mart and mall to be torn down for streetfront retail

OfficialPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
930
Points
23
Currently, a large mall with a Wal-Mart surrounded by a parking lot. Located in the outter fringe of Toronto.


Images thanks to UrbanToronto.ca

Proposed
Thanks to friendly zoning, the developer plans to redevelop the entire block. The existing mall will be demolished and replaced with streetfront retail. A Wal-Mart is not included in the new plans.

 

Hceux

Cyburbian
Messages
1,028
Points
22
What corner is this site? Morningside and Sheppard? or is it Morningside and Kingston Road?
 

Hceux

Cyburbian
Messages
1,028
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22
Oops. Gosh, I gotta read more carefully. I didn't realize that the answer to my own question is already there. It's Morningside and Kingston.

Sorry.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
Just goes to show you that wal~marts do have one good use, holding land until a real / productive / profitable use can be found.
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,388
Points
26
Call me a skeptic, but do you have URLs for news articles about this proposal?
 

OfficialPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
930
Points
23
SGB said:
Call me a skeptic, but do you have URLs for news articles about this proposal?
Not really, it's not big news. These types of developments in Toronto are a dime a dozen. Just not too many people expected to see it in this area.

The image was taken from a Community Association website @

http://www.highlandcreekvillager.org/plans_for_the_morningside_mall.htm

A quote from user AginLio @ UrbanToronto
As most of you are awared that the Toronto Plan has taken a promise to better use our avenues so that they might one day resemble the shopping streets in many walkerable cities. This development is happening on Kingston Rd., at a stretch that the city planning dept is initiating its revitalisation proposal on this well used but under appreciated arterial connection of Southeast Scarborough and Pickering. The initial proposal calls for demolition of a disused indoor shopping centre and converted into an outdoor power centre. Fortunately, the Toronto Plan and the local residents have decided otherwise. The new proposal will call for street front retails with parking spaces at back, what's more is that the public library will be built as the focal point --a far cry from relocating it to some off corner public land.

The project holds great promise as it will provide a centre for the Highland Creek neighbourhood and a gateway piece for commuters arriving from the eastern suburbs.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
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30
I did some searching and it was included in someone who ran for council platform and has been discussed at the library board as it effects their lease. Not much else.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
I don't think this has gone to Community Council yet for approval. It is a "real" project, SGB. It's not in my area though so I don't have any details. I have seen a few newspaper articles in my community paper...
 

ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
donk said:
Just goes to show you that wal~marts do have one good use, holding land until a real / productive / profitable use can be found.
Depends on your point of view. As I recall WM remains extremely profitable by selling Chinese goods.

Looks like a nice redevelopment project. Surprised no residential component was included, but then not all details are available.
 

OfficialPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
930
Points
23
ludes98 said:
Depends on your point of view. As I recall WM remains extremely profitable by selling Chinese goods.

Looks like a nice redevelopment project. Surprised no residential component was included, but then not all details are available.
I'm sure some residential will be included. Anyway

I was able to find some quotes from the local NIMBY councillor

Gay Cowbourne
http://www.forward44.org/full-issue.php?issue=8

Economic growth and prosperity within Ward 44
Ward 44 is predominantly a residential community, the population of which works outside of the area. However, residents do spend money in stores and restaurants and Ward 44 should be trying to create attractive shopping/dining areas that provide goods and services that people need - perhaps along Kingston Road, or in Highland Creek Village, and in the unoccupied stores within the area.

Presently there is a plan to demolish Morningside Mall, and replace it with a strip plaza. Many people are very upset about this, particularly the local senior population, who want a covered mall where they can shop in comfort all year around. So I have to ask why the developer is contemplating building stores that the immediate community has made very clear that it doesn't want? During the proposed rebuilding phase there is little consideration for the local residents who rely on the Dominion store and the banks in the Mall. To allow such a project would be very poor local planning and would result in residents going out of Ward 44 to shop - not a sound economic principle.
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
Messages
18,311
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44
hehehe...funny name (sorry people with funny names).

Gay Cowbourne
 

AubieTurtle

Cyburbian
Messages
894
Points
21
Originally posted by OfficialPlanner though the words are from a woman with a funny name

Presently there is a plan to demolish Morningside Mall, and replace it with a strip plaza. Many people are very upset about this, particularly the local senior population, who want a covered mall where they can shop in comfort all year around.
Love the choice of words. Somehow I think if she was for this development, "strip plaza" would become "community shopping village".

To those from Toronto: does this area have a large senior population?
 

Quail64

Cyburbian
Messages
55
Points
4
Huzzah! Looks like a planning victory. Mourningside Mall appears to have become a sidewalk mall, nice for a stroll in the morning.
 

OfficialPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
930
Points
23
AubieTurtle said:
Love the choice of words. Somehow I think if she was for this development, "strip plaza" would become "community shopping village".

To those from Toronto: does this area have a large senior population?
Here are the stats, 24% of the population is between 10 to 20 years of age. Seniors make up only 8% of the area's population, far below the city average.

http://www.toronto.ca/wards2000/pdf/ward44_population.pdf

Thankfully, this councillor has just been elected. Whatever NIMBY concerns she may raise will quickly be flushed away by the other 44 votes on council.
 

H

Cyburbian
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2,850
Points
24
He he. Gay’s photo looks like a real estate agent’s glamour shot business card.

But seriously, is this new building stucco or cement? Do they (can they) use stucco up north?
 

Hceux

Cyburbian
Messages
1,028
Points
22
H said:
But seriously, is this new building stucco or cement? Do they (can they) use stucco up north?
Yes, stucco can be use in Canada. There are numerous stucco-ed homes. So, I expect that the same can be used for larger buildings like Wal-marts.

Beside, Toronto isn't all that "far north." Many American and Canadian cities that are located farther north than Toronto. These cities include: Portland, OR, Seattle, WA, Twin Cities, Green Bay, WI, as well as Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg. The thing is that not all areas of Canada is freezing cold - although there is a cold spell in southern Ontario right now. It's been wavering between -30 and -40 with windchill...yikes! *sigh, only a short while ago it was sweltering hot plus 40C...well, it seems it was only recently, but I guess not.*
 

H

Cyburbian
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2,850
Points
24
Hceux said:
Yes, stucco can be use in Canada. There are numerous stucco-ed homes. So, I expect that the same can be used for larger buildings like Wal-marts.
Can you use synthetic stucco?

I apologize if this seems lika a dumb question, I just am really curious. I know nothing about building materials north of the Mason-Dixon line or much west of the Mississippi. :-S
 

donk

Cyburbian
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6,970
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30
H said:
Can you use synthetic stucco?
Yes, I'll have the digital camera this weekend and try to get a picture of a "lovely" synthetic stucco house in -40C/F weather (with wind chill).

Actually, I would expect most stucco around here is synthetic.
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
Question about Toronto winters

That makes me wonder. How do you keep the glacers from moving in and smashing stuff? I assume the dogs pulling everyone's sleds through the streets can be retasked to pull them around the city , but can they really pull hard enough to make a difference?

Are there many incidents of seasonal affective disorder due to the long months of darkness in the Canadian winter?

Also, how many bodies are discovered when the snow melts in a typical spring?
 

donk

Cyburbian
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6,970
Points
30
Re: Question about Toronto winters

jordanb said:
That makes me wonder. How do you keep the glacers from moving in and smashing stuff?
They call in the army. (Seriously)
 

Hceux

Cyburbian
Messages
1,028
Points
22
Re: Question about Toronto winters

jordanb said:
That makes me wonder. How do you keep the glaciers from moving in and smashing stuff? I assume the dogs pulling everyone's sleds through the streets can be retasked to pull them around the city , but can they really pull hard enough to make a difference?

Are there many incidents of seasonal affective disorder due to the long months of darkness in the Canadian winter?

Also, how many bodies are discovered when the snow melts in a typical spring?
I'm sure that there's just as much glacial movements in the Toronto area as there is in Chicago. :p *blowing raspberries*

SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) does exist. It is said that February is the worst month because the skies are so gray, the snow is so white and expansive, and the sun has hibernated on us. I'm not sure how common is it, but it does exist.

I'm not sure about discovering bodies when the snow melts in a typical spring, but I can tell you that you can find some money on the street, on the sidewalk, and on the ground. So the great accumulation of snow does bring us - the lucky watchful ones - with some fortunes! ;)
 

OfficialPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
930
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23
FWIW... An update, nearly 7-years later.

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=Morningside+Mall&safe=strict&ie=UTF8&hq=Morningside+Mall&hnear=&radius=15000&ll=43.770799,-79.186782&spn=0,0.007424&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=43.770718,-79.186861&panoid=kh-m10ZS0COMOqoaGS7tFg&cbp=12,121.81,,0,3.95

Currently, a large mall with a Wal-Mart surrounded by a parking lot. Located in the outter fringe of Toronto.


Images thanks to UrbanToronto.ca

Proposed
Thanks to friendly zoning, the developer plans to redevelop the entire block. The existing mall will be demolished and replaced with streetfront retail. A Wal-Mart is not included in the new plans.

 

Howl

Cyburbian
Messages
223
Points
9
What surprises me about this development is they replaced the mall with approximately the same thing, just in a different format. The only reason I can think of for doing that is the mall was so run down and structurally unsound it had to be replaced, but retail uses were still the most profitable use for that location. That makes me wonder why the mall got so run-down in the first place if the location is so profitable for retail.

I would have expected in order to make the demolition and reconstruction financially viable a much more intense use or a different use would have replaced the mall. For example the Warden Woods mall was replaced with a transit-oriented housing development a few years ago because the mall was in a poor location and was losing money, so redeveloping it as a residential neighbourhood made financial sense.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,326
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49
Maybe the change from enclosed to strip (which this is what appears to have happened) was viable because the demographics had changed or the cost (ie profit) structure was better with the new because they didn't have to pay for common interior things anymore, such as bathrooms, HVAC, etc.
 
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