flea/open-air markets

[Tom R]

Does anyone have good regulations on flea/open-air markets?

 

[Chet]

Yes. They are prohibited.

 

[H]

Yes. They are prohibited.

Why? I think they are great.

But I have no regs to share. But Miami Beach has a nice one on Espanola Way, maybe you can contact them.

South Miami has a Saturday market that is nice, so maybe contact them as well.

 

[jresta]

that's a flaming barrel of used produce crates

so, in a word . . . no

 

[H]

that's a flaming barrel of used produce crates

so, in a word . . . no

like someone couldnt burn something in Wally World?

 

[donk]

I think there is a big difference between a "flea market" and an open air market. In my mind a "flea market" has connotations of items that are usually cheap mass produced crap, items being sold by shady looking characters, used items with little value or a place to fence things that fell of the back of a truck.

flea market

To me open air markets on the other hand has a connotation of locally produced/grown high quality items for sale.

Our "local" open air market

http://www.boycefarmersmarket.com/pottery.jpg

The open air / farmers market is a growing trend here.

If you are looking to promote and develop farmers markets here is a

link to an ontario site.

 

[jresta]

We have an interesting situation with a Flea Market
The Pennsauken Mart - or PennMart
is slated for demo because the County Freeholders ("council" to the rest of you - but hey, at least we're honest about our origins) decided they wan't to build a new hockey arena for the county boss. The boss sold the team to an associate to avoid a "conflict of interest" - no more conflict, he already made his dough.

http://www.southjerseynews.com/issues/april/m040503f.htm

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/4839757.htm

interesting to note in the Inqy article - Camden doesn't have a "first" grocery store.

 

[Vlaude]

Great thread, I was just asked about this very thing, and thought I'd double check the board... Under our current ordinances its not addressed, but I think its time to make an addition. I am interested in control standards to keep it from growing into a monster junk sale... Does anyone have any experience in that area? Aesthetics of a flea or open are market? And any other limitations that you might suggest???

 

[Tom R]

fleas

Great thread, I was just asked about this very thing, and thought I'd double check the board... Under our current ordinances its not addressed, but I think its time to make an addition. I am interested in control standards to keep it from growing into a monster junk sale... Does anyone have any experience in that area? Aesthetics of a flea or open are market? And any other limitations that you might suggest???

Exactly what I'm looking for.

 

[Cardinal]

My first thought would be to work with the distinctions donk mentioned. Everything possible should be done to enable and encourage downtown and neighborhood merchants to conduct daily 'sidewalk sales,' given that the design of the district makes this feasible. Designate an outdoor display or dining area on the sidewalk. Don't require a permit, or if you do, make it an annual one. At the same time, I would look at ways to restrict the Wal-Mart parking lot from becoming a big flea market. Some ideas are to limit outdoor selling to specific locations and even enclose these in decorative fencing, to prohibit or restrict outdoor displays of merchandise like hte big trampolines hung on the front of the building, and to require that 'flea markets' be held in specific locations, such as a a fairgrounds or park.

 

[donk]

I think think the only way you can do it is to make it a special or conditional use. If you have retail/use licensing in your area you could tie the operation permit to the number and type of vendors and their wares.

The one in fredericton works so well, because of the image they want to project and the customers that are attracted.

Cardinal posted his as I was writing mine.

With respect to street sales of goods, toronto has a few neighbourhoods (china town, kensington market, Bloor west) where on street displays of merchandise is the norm. Maybe their by-law has a good section to massaage to meet your needs.

 

[Nemesis]

We have quite a few weekly open air farmers markets in Maryland. I realize this is a little off topic but Baltimore has some excellent examples of enclosed markets functioning. I was so amazed when I moved here to see the lexington market as well as Cross street Market.

http://www.pps.org

search Lexington market or Cross Street Market.

www.lexingtonmarket.com

If anyone has seen HBO"S the corner, Baltimore has it's share of open air markets(drugs), not the ones you want in your city.

 

[BKM]

I personally think even "flea markets" are OK-if limited to areas where parking can be provided and the organization sponsoring the event is responsible for cleanup, private security, and other issues that need to be addressed. That's the kind of thing that should be addressed by regulations-maybe through a use permit requirement.

Even junk vendors who can keep their act clean should be allowed to sell-they may have more customers than vendors of fancy organic produce, as nice and unpscale as the latter vendors are.

We need to be careful about imposing our (often class-based) ideas on communities. What is "junk" to you or I is someone else's found treasure. For example, I like to buy used books-and I saw a book vendor in the photograph of the "horrible" flea market.

 

[Cardinal]

For example, I like to buy used books-and I saw a book vendor in the photograph of the "horrible" flea market.

Is that what was burning in the barrel?

I would agree on not addressing the items sold. Leave that up to the sponsoring organization - which is itself something to require. My biggest problem is with the location. These always seem to end up in the oversized parking lot of a big box store. Our local farmer's market is held at Wal-Mart instead of in the downtown, where it could work to bolster our redevelopment efforts.

 

[BKM]

One could argue, though, that the huge, often way underutilized Wal Mart parking lots need to be "civilized" or "urbanized." If anything, this kind of ramshackle market is an antidote to the enforced orderliness and cheerfulness of Walmart and its creepy corporate greeters and homogenization. Plus, the demographics match as well, if one is being snobby

I LIKE markets. Anywhere, anytime. Regulate their health and safety impacts, otherwise, let 'em rip.

 

[H]

One could argue, though, that the huge, often way underutilized Wal Mart parking lots need to be "civilized" or "urbanized."

You deserve points for thinking of the paradigm. (sort of an inside joke between me and probably no one on this board, but anyway...)

BKM, I think you actually have something here. It would bring any large parking lot back down to a human scale.