Fraternities v Secret Societies and influence in communities.

[michaelskis]

I was just watching 60 minutes, and they said that both George W. (And his dad), along with John Kerry, JFK, and several other government officials are in a Secret Society known as Skull and Bones. They went on to talk about all the things that these members have done, and it made me wonder about other groups of people. Do you think that these groups help, do you think that Fraternities are becoming the same thing, and do any of these groups have any influence in your community? Also, what groups (such as the Masions or JC’s) do you feel have the largest impact on a community? (Doing things such as getting people elected.

Overall, I think that it is mostly about networking, and we are doing that now.

 

[el Guapo]

JMHO - The College Greek System is the New Aryan Breeding progam without all the Jack Boots and Leather of the Early 40's.

 

[Dan]

We must never discuss Skull and Bones again.

Num igenso quae simullo inobis porrepi Illuminatus careapo. Fuisse nonforu iniquan, antum que tullaec grataru. Otum quam aliquen narguum rost postmortem.

 

[AubieTurtle]

. Fnord!

 

[freewaytincan]

JMHO - The College Greek System is the New Aryan Breeding progam without all the Jack Boots and Leather of the Early 40's.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

 

[JNA]

Fnord!

fnord n. [from the "Illuminatus Trilogy"] 1. A word used in email and news postings to tag utterances as surrealist mind-play or humor, esp. in connection with Discordianism and elaborate conspiracy theories. ;-)
found at http://info.astrian.net/jargon/terms/f/fnord.html

 

[Gedunker]

Facilis decensus averni:
Noctes atque dies patet atri ianua Ditis;
Sed revocare gradum superasque evadere ad auras;
Hoc opus, hic labor est.

 

[Zoning Goddess]

Those societies seem to be getting a lot more attention because of The Da Vinci Code.

 

[michaelskis]

We must never discuss Skull and Bones again.

Ok, then we can talk about every one other than Skull and Bones again. (although I find it funny that they are a secret society and we know many there members...)

It is like the mob, but instead of 3 to 5 in a prison, it is 4 to 8 in the White House.

 

[mendelman]

My experience with frat-boys and sorostiutes is clouded by the fact that they are usually very exclusive and way too homogenous. Even if the skin color of the members are varied, they all tend to become the same personality eventually.


They all start looking like this guy:

 

[el Guapo]

Which fraternity would Unfrozen Caveman Plebe pledge if he could pledge?

 

[JNA]

Facilis decensus averni:
Noctes atque dies patet atri ianua Ditis;
Sed revocare gradum superasque evadere ad auras;
Hoc opus, hic labor est.

Translation of Virgil's The Aeneid

Easy is the way down to the Underworld:
by night and by day dark Hades' door stands open;
but to retrace one's steps and to make a way out to the upper air,
that's the task, that is the labour.
Book 6, Line 126

Taken from http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~idmon/zmyth13a.htm

 

[Gedunker]

Translation of Virgil's The Aeneid

Easy is the way down to the Underworld:
by night and by day dark Hades' door stands open;
but to retrace one's steps and to make a way out to the upper air,
that's the task, that is the labour.
Book 6, Line 126

Taken from http://www.users.totalise.co.uk/~idmon/zmyth13a.htm

My Jersey friend is surely a sharpster: I'm sure he will be able to source this Virgil derivative:

Long is the way
and hard,
That out of hell leads up to light

 

[mendelman]

Which fraternity would Unfrozen Caveman Plebe pledge if he could pledge?

The Fraternal Order of Cyburbis.

 

[Maister]

This is usually a topic of lively debate in the local university press. I will refrain from kneejerk reactions but should disclose from the onset that I personally have never felt drawn to join a fraternity (although there were a few sororities I wouldn't have minded joining). Two questions come to mind on the issue and one's anwer to them pretty much tells which side of the fence you fall on:
Number one, do fraternities really promote homogeneity and if so, is this necessarily a 'bad' thing, particularly with regards to a social organization?
Number two, do fraternaties really maintain policies of substantial exclusivity and is this, again, a 'bad' thing?

 

[JNA]

FIRST
To answer Gedunker John Milton Paradise Lost
Both quotes were found together on http://www.scholarisland.org/hell.htm


SECOND
As Inspired by Mendelman

Association of
International
Cyburbia
Participants
;-) :-\

 

[michaelskis]

I was in a Frat for a short time in College. I was never a full member because the one that I joined was on probation, and no new members could be "official" until a particular number of new members would allow for us to be fully re-instituted. (We lost our charter before that happened) So, I did not pay anything! But I did see how much fun it was, and how much community service happened. Also the networking that happened was amazing. True some Frats are about parties, but I think that that is just a side thing. That is what is different about Secret Societies and Frats is the concept of the party culture.

Personally, I wish that there was still a frat or organization that I could get into (unlike the AICP) where something gets done, has networking capabilities for multiple professions.

I also think that Churches almost have a Fraternal feel to them.

 

[H]

JMHO - The College Greek System is the New Aryan Breeding progam without all the Jack Boots and Leather of the Early 40's.

As (South Park) Michael Jackson would say, “that’s ignorant, that’s just ignorant”.

 

[mendelman]

SECOND
As Inspired by Mendelman

Association of
International
Cyburbia
Participants
;-) :-\

Very Nice! :-D

 

[PlannerGirl]

I joined a sorority in college, it was a sort of dare to myself (i was never the popular kid) Wow I got in! It was not at all what I would have guessed, most of us worked our way through college, we had all sizes shapes and majors. It was a LOT of work to get all the "stuff" done to keep the sorority running and our philenthropic (sp?) goals met. I enjoyed it. I was never a drinker or slut.

Today I am still active as an alumna, we do charity things, have a book club, travel together and help new sisters moving into the area learn their way around and provide a support system.

Seems the frats were about parties but the sororites or the ones I knew were more academic though we did have our fun ;-)

 

[boiker]

I also think that Churches almost have a Fraternal feel to them.

Catholic religions might demonstrate it well.

Weird initation rights.. like Baptism, Confirmation, etc.
A strong community sense and social commitment.

The big difference would be the church is not selective in who can join.

 

[Seabishop]

I've never understood the whole "fraternities are about doing good deeds" argument. If they are the university's community service organizations why are all the members binge drinking, handsome, elite party boys? Like all the most popular guys on campus really need this "support network of friends to help with the college experience." |-) Why can't a nerdy college student join to help the community? Drinking is not a good deed.

As far as secret societies its funny how the super rich and the super-poor (gangs) feel the need for them.

 

[otterpop]

In my freshman year of college, some of my friends and I started the Royal Order of the Gutter Rats. No dues. Mostly we sat in the storm water gutter behind my friend's apartment, drank beer and plotted.

Since then we have move on to various occupations. Oh, you probably haven't heard of us, but our effective machinations have long ago shaped American society. Do you think it is an accident that such a no talent as Jenny McCarthy has a career? Or a former Austrian body-builder is governor of the most populous state in the USA?

You all are just our pawns. The Royal Order of the Gutter Rats says jump, and the nation says how high and where should we land? HA HA HA HA (<-- manicial laughter). You fools, you are but puppets! Dance, puppets. Dance.

 

[boiker]

In my freshman year of college, some of my friends and I started the Royal Order of the Gutter Rats. No dues. Mostly we sat in the storm water gutter behind my friend's apartment, drank beer and plotted.

Sounds like my buddies and I. We formed an answer to frat life and called it Beta Alpha Sigma... or Balls and Shaft. Our gig was open parties. not that exclusive, frat boy party crap. We had a dump house that we threw our extravaganza's in. Anyone was invited that liked a good time, cold beer, and general "assy-ness"

Our plots? to slowly bring it all down from the inside. We're all doing are part :-D ;-)

 

[GeogPlanner]

I've never understood the whole "fraternities are about doing good deeds" argument. ...Drinking is not a good deed.

No, it's the environmentalist in them...returning empties on Sunday before football.

 

[SGB]

JMHO - The College Greek System is the New Aryan Breeding progam without all the Jack Boots and Leather of the Early 40's.

As with all generalizations, there are exceptions to the rule.

My fraternity chapter had a stong history of ethnic and religious diversity. african- americans, wasps, jews, hispanics, muslims, etc.

Of course, this diversity didn't necessarily alleviate the in-bred culture of immature behavior and occasional substance abuse.

Despite this, some of use have gone on to lead what could be called semi-productive lives.

Just my $.02 worth (adjusted for inflation, of course).

:-\

 

[Michele Zone]

As with all generalizations, there are exceptions to the rule.

My fraternity chapter had a stong history of ethnic and religious diversity. african- americans, wasps, jews, hispanics, muslims, etc.

You know, I kind of agree with eG but not really because of the "white boy" thing. They are similar in that they produce an extreme loyalty, similar to the nationalism that sparked WWII: Fascism, Nazi-ism, etc.

A lot of folks downplay their ethnicity. Even in a diverse group, it can appear to be fairly homogenous. Many "white" famous people were really Hispanic or Jewish or something else. I am part Cherokee Indian and my mom has olive skin. But I got daddy's pale, pale Irish skin in a big way. I look so very white. Culturally, I don't feel so very white.

I once spoke of how bigotted and hypocritical my dad is - - that he is fairly racist yet does not see my olive-skinned, foreign mom as "not white". But she has a similar coloring to many light-skinned African Americans (and the gene pool for African Americans is something like 70% white -- they would be seen as "white" in some countries). A friend of mine who is ethnically German and married an African American man wrote me privately to say, "yeah, my daughter is similar in color to some of my olive-skinned German relatives yet they are all weird about her being "black", sigh". So skin color alone does not necessarily "betray" the fact that you are ethnic. Whether you are a status-y shade of olive skin with a rich person's tan or, instead, "ethnic" can be hard to clearly determine just from looking at you. :-D (Hypocrisy is rampant.)

 

[Zoning Goddess]

I attended a progressive women's college that did not have sororities. My sister in law (bless her stupid soul) went to a little college in N Carolina and belonged to a sorority, and as near as I can tell, they were all total twits.

I'd like to hear from a Cyburbian who's actually belonged to one of these secret Ivy-league societies?

 

[Cardinal]

I'd like to hear from a Cyburbian who's actually belonged to one of these secret Ivy-league societies?

Well, I am not a member, but I did see a documentary on the Stonecutters once.
The Stonecutters are a 1500 year old secret organisation who, since ancient times, have split the rocks of ignorance that obscure the light of knowledge and truth." The aim of the society is for the members to get drunk, play ping-pong and find the Chosen One who has the Stonecutters symbol for a birthmark. Their song is:

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do! We do!
Who leaves Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the martians under wraps?
We do! We do!
Who holds back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do! We do!
Who robs the cave fish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscars night?
We do! We do!

 

[Zoning Goddess]

Well, I am not a member, but I did see a documentary on the Stonecutters once.
The Stonecutters are a 1500 year old secret organisation who, since ancient times, have split the rocks of ignorance that obscure the light of knowledge and truth." The aim of the society is for the members to get drunk, play ping-pong and find the Chosen One who has the Stonecutters symbol for a birthmark.

Hmmm..sounds somewhat like the Royal Order of Goddesses, but we have more fun...ping-pong? we bowl! ;-)

 

[JNA]

To follow up on Cardinal

There are 5 rituals one must go through in order to join the elite of the Stonecutters
Ritual #1 - All StoneCutters must take a Leap of Faith. If you survive this five-story plunge, your character will be proven.
Ritual #2 - The Crossing of the Desert.
Ritual #3 - The Unblinking Eye.
Ritual #4 - Wreck of the Hesperus.
Ritual #5 - The Paddling of the Swollen Ass, with paddles


Oath -
And by the sacred parchment,
I swear that if I reveal the secrets of the Stonecutters,
may my stomach become bloated
and my head be plucked of all but three hairs --

 

[DecaturHawk]

I was in a Frat for a short time in College. I was never a full member because the one that I joined was on probation...

Was it DOUBLE SECRET probation?

 

[annie]

Societies

Since I hear so much ridiculousness about what people thinks goes on in Skull and Bones I will dispel a myth or two.

About 10% of Yale's senior class is in a society. The societies range from groups with Tombs and long legacies of members to recently founded groups (female or male only) which function mainly to drink and meet in various people's apartments.

People are "tapped" into societies by members in the class above them. In Skull and Bones, there is a Conservative Party tap, but also a tap that gets passed down through the men's crew team. Thus, each society is extremely diverse (this explains how both Bush and Kerry are Bonesmen..note #2, it's now coed). Membership in the same socieity does not translate into homogenous ideologies.

As to what goes on inside. Each society has its own set of specific rituals, but all societies require each member to give a "bio" - basically his/her life story. Other activities include debates, speakers, dinners, and a lot of drinking.

And, the larger societies throw one AWESOME party a year...that's when it pays off to have friends who are members!

 

[The Irish One]

Was it DOUBLE SECRET probation?

LOL, always good for a laugh :-D

 

[JNA]

Delta's are the best fraternity at Faber College. ;-) B-) :-0

 

[Wannaplan?]

We must never discuss Skull and Bones again.

I don't want to die.

 

[michaelskis]

I don't want to die.

I don't think that you have anything to worry about.

 

[Floridays]

I joined a sorority my freshman year, did the whole rush thing, mainly to meet new & different people. The sorority that I joined seemed to be a good mix of gals...problem was, I actually had a LIFE outside of the Greek system! For example, I had a job to pay for 1/2 of my classes/books and I had other non-Greek friends that I hung out with. The biggest crock is the fact that they "fined" any members who missed Chapter or formal meal. So if I missed due to work hours, they fined me. Basically, I told them that they would never see the money, and they never did. For years I received mail but I don't think they can find me anymore...

The Greek system as a whole can be a good thing, but the frat parties and hazing and crap like that is really out of control. I've seen more than a few cases of alcohol poisoning following a frat "function." My alma mater is trying to nip (no pun intended) that in the bud:

The University of Oklahoma at Norman has decided to ban the use of alcohol. The ban went into effect on January eighteenth. It affects all 22,000 students at the University. American education officials have been concerned for years about how students use alcohol. Some of it has had deadly results. For example, a student at the University of Oklahoma died in September following a fraternity party. His blood alcohol level was five times the legal limit.

Such extreme use of alcohol is known as “binge drinking.” It means having four to five drinks in less than one hour. Studies have found a link between binge drinking and parties at college fraternity houses. Reports say the deaths of one thousand four hundred college students in the United States last year were linked to alcohol use.

Parents of students will be told if their child is found with any kind of alcohol. The students also will take part in an alcohol education program. A second violation of the rule will result in punishment. The student will be suspended from school after three violations.

All new students will be required to complete an alcohol education program. And the University of Oklahoma will cooperate with the local police force to stop parties where binge drinking takes place.

 

[BKM]

You know, I kind of agree with eG but not really because of the "white boy" thing. They are similar in that they produce an extreme loyalty, similar to the nationalism that sparked WWII: Fascism, Nazi-ism, etc.

A lot of folks downplay their ethnicity. Even in a diverse group, it can appear to be fairly homogenous. Many "white" famous people were really Hispanic or Jewish or something else. I am part Cherokee Indian and my mom has olive skin. But I got daddy's pale, pale Irish skin in a big way. I look so very white. Culturally, I don't feel so very white.

I once spoke of how . . . hypocritical my dad is - (Hypocrisy is rampant.)

My sister enjoys fulminating about immigrants from India stealing technology jobs (her H1B visa rant). The ironic thing: Her husband's birth name is "Waleed Sidiqui" and he was a non-citizen Pakistani/Croatian working in the technology field. :-D He is now a citizen (Wally Finley, the anglicized version of his mother's Croatian maiden name )

All around nice guy, but I just find her rants amusing for this very reason.

 

[Wannaplan?]

I don't think that you have anything to worry about.

I know a thing or two about S&B because I was a bulldog employee at one time and I worked alongside a blabbering undergraduate volunteer.

 

[BKM]

You want a really scary conspiracy theory/secret society (church)

What about the Reverend Moon? BILLIONS of dollars, and deep ties to prominent conservative leaders and evangelical "Christian" preachers.

Did you know that Reverend Moon was crowned "Savior of the World" in a cermeony in the United States Capital last year, with a U.S. Congressman actually holding and presenting the Crown to the "Messiah"? Prominent members of the "Christian" Republican Party (as well as Democrats) attended, despite their pious fraud protestations to the contrary.

That the Unification Church has funelled tens of millions of dollars to Jerry Fallwell's Liberty Baptist (basically paying off their debt). Amazing how Jerry no longer complains about the Moonies, does he?

For a full dose of interesting conspiracy theory, check this out: http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/

Lots and lots of interesting coincidences and linkages, no?

 

[michaelskis]

I know a thing or two about S&B because I was a bulldog employee at one time and I worked alongside a blabbering undergraduate volunteer.

What's a bulldog employee and is the volunteer sleeping with the fishes?

 

[abrowne]

Frats are few and far between in Canada.

 

[CCMNUT39]

Yes, yes, yes...I was a Frat boy.

Fraternities have their good sides and their even uglier ones. Unfortunately, you have stupidity no matter where you go. Anytime you involve young males, a stressfull atmoshphere (college) and cheap alcohol, you're bound to see some things (usually stupid) happen. Most of the fraternities tend to be elititest, I would agree, though there are some "good" ones out there. I was/am a brother in Pi Lambda Phi. Now keep in mind, on the east coast, the Pi Lams are usually a Jewish Fraternity, we were located in Eastern Washington. I think we were good culture shock to those lads. It was a good time, some of my best times in College, sober even.

 

[Wannaplan?]

What's a bulldog employee...

If you have to ask, then you have no business engaging in a discussion about secret societies of the upper echelon. :-c :-{

 

[Wannaplan?]

For a full dose of interesting conspiracy theory, check this out: http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/

Lots and lots of interesting coincidences and linkages, no?

Oh. My. Gosh.

That is positively frigging hilarious!

 

[mendelman]

If you have to ask, then you have no business engaging in a discussion about secret societies of the upper echelon. :-c :-{

I know, I know......but I will refrain from typing an answer for fear of having my fingers cut off.

 

[Wannaplan?]

I know, I know......but I will refrain from typing an answer for fear of having my fingers cut off.

I know you know. We best be keeping our mouths shut!

 

[michaelskis]

I know you know. We best be keeping our mouths shut!

I know that you're afraid to answer a question. ;-)

 

[BKM]

Oh. My. Gosh.

That is positively frigging hilarious!

Now you Repugs know what we were afraid to tell you: Your candidate is promoting the...





Wait for it.....








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