• We're a fun, friendly, and diverse group of planners, placemakers, students, and other folks who found their people here. Create your FREE Cyburbia ID, and join us today! Use your email address, or register through your Reddit, Facebook, Google, Twitter, or Microsoft account.

Game of Thrones: who will sit on the Iron Throne? (possible spoilers)

Who's going to sit on the Iron Throne?

  • Cersei Lannister

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jamie Lannister

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Arya Stark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Bran Stark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Sansa Stark

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Euron Greyjoy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lyanna Mormont

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Missandei

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Gendry

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    12
  • Poll closed .

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,373
Points
29
I know it's been "obvious" for a while (back to Season 1 according to some people, like my fiance) but I was still angry and disappointed in Dany for her fiery decision. Guess it's good old Jon boy for King.

And a little disappointed in Jamie, but not surprised.

Cleganebowl 2019 was epic, though.
I don't think Dany's mental demise was foreshadowed at all in the books or the TV series (except maybe when she crucified the slave masters in Meereen). She has probably gone through more adversity in her life than any character in the series but always strived to be loved by the people and wanted to be the great "breaker of chains." Suddenly, over the past couple of episodes she falls into madness that quickly? I think it's just another example of sloppy writing by the folks at HBO. It is entirely possible that when GRRM gave D&D his outline of how the story ended, he may have said Dany eventually goes mad and he's going to play that out in more detail in the 2,000+ pages he's still planning to publish but HBO has just been trying to cram that into a few episodes.

Vary's death was another really stupid one. The man who has easily been one of the most cunning in the series and only wants good for the realm suddenly decides to start talking openly about supporting a coup with Jon Snow. :rolleyes:
 

Whose Yur Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
10,259
Points
31
Ok, so I tried to read the NPR recap the the most recent episode. I got about half way through the article and gave up. I've also tried to watch a couple of episodes in the past. I'm sorry y'all. I've never been able to get into the series.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,268
Points
52
I know it's been "obvious" for a while (back to Season 1 according to some people, like my fiance) but I was still angry and disappointed in Dany for her fiery decision.
There's a lot of historic precedent for Dany becoming a "mad queen". Genghis Khan was also a conqueror with a split personality. From Thought Company:
Genghis Khan sought a peace and trade agreement with the Khwarezmid shah; his message read:
"I am master of the lands of the rising sun, while you rule those of the setting sun. Let us conclude a treaty of friendship and peace."

Shah Muhammad accepted this treaty, but when a Mongol trade caravan arrived in the Khwarezmian city of Otrar in 1219, the Mongol traders were massacred, and their goods were stolen.

Alarmed and angry, Genghis Khan sent three diplomats to Shah Muhammad to demand restitution for the caravan and its drivers. Shah Muhammad responded by cutting off the Mongol diplomats' heads — a grave breach of Mongol law — and sending them back to the Great Khan. As it happened, this was one of the worst ideas in history. By 1221, Genghis and his Mongol armies had killed Shah Muhammad, chased his son into exile in India, and utterly destroyed the once-mighty Khwarezmid Empire.
There's some parallels with Dany and her relationship with King's Landing. If the Mountain didn't take a little off the top of Missandre, maybe Dany would have been a bit more restrained after the surrender bells tolled.

Also, Dany leads an army of Dothraki and Unsullied. They're not conscripts or vassals, but people who live, eat, and sleep war. From the previous link:
The second factor in Genghis Khan's success and that of his descendants was the need for spoils. As nomads, the Mongols had a relatively spare material culture — but they enjoyed the products of settled society, such as silk cloth, fine jewelry, etc. To retain the loyalty of his ever-growing army, as the Mongols conquered and absorbed neighboring nomadic armies, Genghis Khan and his sons had to continue to sack cities. His followers were rewarded for their valor with luxury goods, horses, and slaves seized from the cities they conquered.
The masses feared Genghis Khan, but despite his reign of terror ...
Reports of the Mongol attacks terrified Europe. The Mongols increased their empire using swift and decisive attacks with an armed and disciplined cavalry. They wiped out the populations of some entire towns that resisted—as was their usual policy—depopulating some regions and confiscating the crops and livestock from others. This type of total warfare spread panic even among Europeans not directly affected by the Mongol onslaught and sent refugees fleeing westward.
... his reign brought a lot of much-needed change during a time of medieval stasis.
Positive Effects on Europe

Although the Mongol invasion of Europe sparked terror and disease, in the long run, it had enormous positive impacts. The foremost was what historians call the Pax Mongolica—a century of peace (c. 1280–1360) among neighboring peoples who were all under Mongol rule. This peace allowed for the reopening of the Silk Road trading routes between China and Europe, increasing cultural exchange and wealth all along the trade paths.

Central Asia was a region that had always been important to overland trade between China and the West. As the region became stable under the Pax Mongolica, trade became less risky under the various empires, and as cross-cultural interactions became more and more intensive and extensive, more and more goods were traded.

Spread of Technology

Within the Pax Mongolica, the sharing of knowledge, information, and cultural identity was encouraged. Citizens could legally become followers of Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, or anything else as long as their practice didn't interfere with the political ambitions of the Khan. The Pax Mongolica also allowed monks, missionaries, traders, and explorers to travel along the trade routes. One famous example is the Venetian trader and explorer Marco Polo, who traveled to the court of Genghis Khan's grandson Kublai Khan (Quibilai) at Xanadu in China.

Some of the most fundamental ideas and technologies in the world—papermaking, printing, and gunpowder manufacturing, among many others—made their way across Asia via the Silk Road. Migrants, merchants, explorers, pilgrims, refugees, and soldiers brought along with them their disparate religious and cultural ideas, domesticated animals, plants, flowers, vegetables, and fruit as they joined this gigantic cross-continental exchange. As historian Ma Debin describes it, the Silk Road was the original melting pot, the lifeline of the Eurasian continent.

Cross-Cultural Interactions: Religion

Before the Mongol Empire, Europeans and Chinese were largely unaware of the other's existence. Trade established along the Silk Road in the first centuries BCE had become rare, dangerous, and unpredictable. Long-distance trade, human migration, and imperial expansion actively engaged people in different societies in significant cross-cultural interactions. Afterward, interactions between the two were not only possible but encouraged.

Diplomatic contacts and religious missions were established over vast distances. Islamic merchants helped gain a footing for their faith at the extreme ends of the Eastern Hemisphere, spreading from Southeast Asia and West Africa, and Northern India and Anatolia.

Alarmed, western Europeans and the Mongol rulers of China sought a diplomatic alliance with one another against the Muslims in Southwest Asia. Europeans sought to convert Mongols to Christianity and establish a Christian community in China; the Mongols saw the spread as a threat. Neither of these initiatives was successful, but the opening of political channels made a substantive difference.

Transfer of Scientific Knowledge

The entire overland route of the Silk Road witnessed a vigorous revival under the Pax Mongolica. Its rulers actively worked to ensure the safety of the trade routes, building effective post stations and rest stops, introducing the use of paper money and eliminating artificial trade barriers. By 1257, Chinese raw silk appeared in the silk-producing area of Italy, and in the 1330s, a single merchant sold thousands of pounds of silk in Genoa.

The Mongolians absorbed scientific knowledge from Persia, India, China, and Arabia. Medicine became one of the many areas of life and culture that flourished under Mongol rule; keeping an army healthy was vital, so they created hospitals and training centers to encourage the exchange and expansion of medical knowledge. As a result, China employed doctors from India and the Middle East, all of which was communicated to European centers. Kublai Khan founded an institution for the study of Western medicine; the Persian historian Rashid al-Din (1247–1318) published the first known book on Chinese medicine outside China in 1313.
tl;dr: Dany = Genghis Khan, with some Fidel Castro "for the people" revolutionary in the mix.

So, what's next? My fan theories:

1) Dany attempts to execute Jon and Tyrion for disloyalty of some kind. Either they don't burn from dragonflame, meaning they're both Targaryen, or Drogon refuses to burn them, period. (Remember, the dragons are tame around Jon and Tyrion.) Either Dany gets killed, or she peace-outs the hell away from Westeros. Tyrion takes the throne, which implies a future democracy, based on earlier conversations he had with Dany about a post-conquest agenda.

2) Robert's Rebellion: the sequel. Gendry takes the throne.

3) Something something something Azor Ahai. Jon kills Dany by stabbing her through the heart, and that somehow brings light to the world.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,268
Points
52
Suddenly, over the past couple of episodes she falls into madness that quickly?
Dany's journey across Essos grew darker the further she went. Let's see:
She sends her Unsullied, led by Grey Worm, to sneak into Meereen and start a slave revolt inside the city. The plan is successful, the slaves rise up against their masters, kill some of them and open the gates to Daenerys. She enters the city as a liberator and the freedmen of Meereen celebrate her arrival by shouting "Mhysa" and throwing their old slaves' collars at her feet. She then has 163 Great Masters killed similarly to how they had murdered the slave children on the road to Meereen, and despite Ser Barristan's council to answer their injustice with mercy, she claims she is "answering injustice with justice".
In the books, she's a lot more brutal. Regarding the Sack of Astapor:
Finally, Daenerys orders her forces to spare all children below the age of twelve, while the TV version shortens this to just have her say "harm no child" without specifying an age.
She freed slaves, but left a trail of destruction behind. Chaos reigned after she left the cities of Slaver's Bay.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,373
Points
29
^ I still don't buy it. She may have exorcised brutality in the past but she's always had morality on her side (even if it was just a speck) in that her brutality was enacted on punish tyrants and slave holders and traders and those who would bring treason.

In the books she's told over and over again how the people of Westeros will welcome her with open arms and be so grateful that she's bringing down the Lannisters and the "usurper" in King's Landing... and she believes it. There's no way she could ever believe that the Westerosi will welcome her now.



All that said, let's get down to the real most pressing question: What's going to happen to the Iron Throne's debt to the Iron Bank? Is Tycho Nestoris guy going to come and take everything over and be the ultimate person sitting on the throne since nobody will be able to pay things off amid all the destruction (and the probably infighting that's going to go on now between Dany and Jon and the Starks)?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan

terraplnr

Cyburbian
Messages
2,108
Points
23
All that said, let's get down to the real most pressing question: What's going to happen to the Iron Throne's debt to the Iron Bank? Is Tycho Nestoris guy going to come and take everything over and be the ultimate person sitting on the throne since nobody will be able to pay things off amid all the destruction (and the probably infighting that's going to go on now between Dany and Jon and the Starks)?
The ultimate unexpected GOT plot twist. . . the Seven Kingdoms are repossessed by the Iron Bank, we find out that Dave Ramsey is really hiding behind G.R.R. Martin's face, and the ultimate moral of the story is that debt is bad.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,373
Points
29
The ultimate unexpected GOT plot twist. . . the Seven Kingdoms are repossessed by the Iron Bank, we find out that Dave Ramsey is really hiding behind G.R.R. Martin's face, and the ultimate moral of the story is that debt is bad.
Another plot twist I wouldn't put past HBO at this point is that Illyrio Mopatis shows up in the final episode, having given some other exiled person 3 more dragon eggs and they take over things and he gets his wish to be Master of Coin.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Moderator
Messages
14,589
Points
37
Another plot twist I wouldn't put past HBO at this point is that Illyrio Mopatis shows up in the final episode, having given some other exiled person 3 more dragon eggs and they take over things and he gets his wish to be Master of Coin.
If it was Netflix, I would put that Marie Kondo comes and organizes Westros to spark joy. HBO is a tougher egg to crack.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
5,457
Points
20
This show just keeps getting worse. I finally found time to watch the last episode. What an uncharacteristic change for Dany. I mean she wasn't the best person in the world, but she certainly never rose to the level of torching innocent men, women, and children. I wouldn't say that everyone she burned prior to this episode deserved it, but they certainly were not innocent people.

Cleganebowl was fantastic and everything I'd hoped it would be. Their deaths were perfect. Sandor was really one of my favorite characters, and his redemption arc was so good. I wouldn't mind seeing a show about his life.

I'm disappointed in how Jamie's arc wrapped up. What a waste of a good character. I am glad he took out Euron, but I'm not happy with how lame Euron ended up being. In the books he's a badass dark wizard guy. That said, the scene with Tyrion and Jamie was absolutely fantastic. Peter Dinklage and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have really good on screen chemistry and are both superb actors. For as poorly as the last 2 seasons have been written, the cast has really kept it going.

As with Jamie, Varys' death was extraordinarily disappointing. That's it? Seriously? After all that, he dies without really accomplishing anything. That's so unlike him.

I still believe no one will end up on the throne. Either it was destroyed in the siege, or someone who claims it (Jon, Tyrion, etc.) destroys it themselves and establishes something else (council of the Seven Kingdoms or something like that).
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,373
Points
29
This show just keeps getting worse. I finally found time to watch the last episode. What an uncharacteristic change for Dany. I mean she wasn't the best person in the world, but she certainly never rose to the level of torching innocent men, women, and children. I wouldn't say that everyone she burned prior to this episode deserved it, but they certainly were not innocent people.

Cleganebowl was fantastic and everything I'd hoped it would be. Their deaths were perfect. Sandor was really one of my favorite characters, and his redemption arc was so good. I wouldn't mind seeing a show about his life.

I'm disappointed in how Jamie's arc wrapped up. What a waste of a good character. I am glad he took out Euron, but I'm not happy with how lame Euron ended up being. In the books he's a badass dark wizard guy. That said, the scene with Tyrion and Jamie was absolutely fantastic. Peter Dinklage and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau have really good on screen chemistry and are both superb actors. For as poorly as the last 2 seasons have been written, the cast has really kept it going.

As with Jamie, Varys' death was extraordinarily disappointing. That's it? Seriously? After all that, he dies without really accomplishing anything. That's so unlike him.

I still believe no one will end up on the throne. Either it was destroyed in the siege, or someone who claims it (Jon, Tyrion, etc.) destroys it themselves and establishes something else (council of the Seven Kingdoms or something like that).
I agree that The Hound had one of the best character arcs in the series (book or TV) but I was sort of disappointed with Cleganebowl. I think my big beef with it was how ridiculous The Mountain looked when his helmet came off. The makeup was sort of ridiculous and reminded me of something you'd see in the very worst of B-movies (maybe something out of a Tromaville movie). I was reading a review somewhere that made a good point that The Mountain was actually the winner of the fight since he was already "dead", his situation wasn't really changed, whereas The Hound died and wasn't coming back (who knows, maybe Qyburn's experiments on The Mountain mean he's still alive after all that!). Also, I know Sandor is supposed to be tall in the books but never realized how big he was in the show until they showed him finally facing off against his brother and there wasn't that much of a height difference - I just looked it up and learned Rory McCann is 6'6".

Regarding Euron - He was one definitely one of the best (or at least most interesting) characters from the books who they just turned into a total joke in the show. I never really thought of him as a wizard but more of like a fraudster who was willing to take people's beliefs in things like the Dragonbinder horn (how cool would it have been if he actually had the Dragonbinder horn in the show and they had Moqorro or some other Red Priest to blow it and that's what they used to get Dany's dragon instead of those stupid ballistas!) or the Drowned God or the Red Lord and exploit them to get the Iron Borne and others to follow him. The worst was his soliloquy after fighting Jaime and him saying, "I'm the man who killed Jaime Lannister!" to absolutely noone. :rolleyes: C'mon HBO, you're better than that!

Jaime might have had some moments where he had glimmers of morality but he really was a turd at heart and I actually thought it was fitting with his character when he left Winterfell to try to go back to Cersei. He was a better person than his sister but that's a pretty low bar to hurdle.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,373
Points
29
Well, the finale was a bit underwhelming but I think the ending made sense. There were definitely some cheesy moments that didn't really fit in with aesthetic of the preceding 8 seasons but I think the wrapped it up as best they could given what they did in the last few episodes and how much time they had left.

I'm currently going through the books for the 4th time (I just listened to Fire & Blood and am about 3/4th of the way through A Game of Thrones which I am listening to on my morning runs and drive into work) and I'm tempted to watch a few episodes of the show each week from the beginning to see if I can pinpoint where the show writing really went off the rails.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
5,457
Points
20
The Master of Coin better set aside serious bank to make the Red Keep ADA compliant.
He's just going to end up taking all of it for brothels. Bronn had no idea what a loan even was and had to ask Tyrion to explain it. Why in the world did anyone think he's a good fit to oversee the kingdom's finances? WHY does Bran need a Master of Whispers? He can literally be freaking birds. His first small council meeting had him leaving almost immediately to find a dragon for some reason.

What an incredibly disappointing ending. I love how all the Lords and Ladies of the other houses were keen to agree to King Bran the Broken, but no one said a damn word when Sansa just decided the North will remain independent. Dorne was independent far longer than the North ever was and Yara Greyjoy literally pledged her allegiance to Dany based on the fact that the Iron Islands would be an independent kingdom after her eventual win. But no, they are all fine with a Stark being king of the 6 kingdoms with the North just being on its own, also led by a Stark. I like that Sam Tarly was sitting in that meeting, even though House Tarly wasn't even a great house.

And why the hell did anyone care what Grey Worm had to say? Without Dany, he's nothing. And even more shocking, why would he take Jon prisoner and not just kill him outright? The Unsullied have no experience with political prisoners, they are a mindless machine that does what they are directed to do. No more, no less. And to top it all off, they just decide to leave to go to a place with killer flesh eating butterflies.

Arya is just on a boat. To whatever is "west of Westeros". Just because. No real reason given, she just wants to go. Somehow, through all of this, Jon ends up getting screwed the most. "Oh, well this army that is leaving to go get killed by butterflies wants you to go to the wall and rejoin the Nights Watch. Remember? That group that was established to protect the giant wall (which has a gaping hole in it) to defend the county against a threat which was easily defeated already? Yeah go up there again. Bye". But somehow, instead he just keeps going north with his bro Tormund to presumably take the position of King of the Wildlings.
 

dandy_warhol

Cyburbian
Messages
8,909
Points
28
He's just going to end up taking all of it for brothels. Bronn had no idea what a loan even was and had to ask Tyrion to explain it. Why in the world did anyone think he's a good fit to oversee the kingdom's finances? WHY does Bran need a Master of Whispers? He can literally be freaking birds. His first small council meeting had him leaving almost immediately to find a dragon for some reason.

What an incredibly disappointing ending. I love how all the Lords and Ladies of the other houses were keen to agree to King Bran the Broken, but no one said a damn word when Sansa just decided the North will remain independent. Dorne was independent far longer than the North ever was and Yara Greyjoy literally pledged her allegiance to Dany based on the fact that the Iron Islands would be an independent kingdom after her eventual win. But no, they are all fine with a Stark being king of the 6 kingdoms with the North just being on its own, also led by a Stark. I like that Sam Tarly was sitting in that meeting, even though House Tarly wasn't even a great house.

And why the hell did anyone care what Grey Worm had to say? Without Dany, he's nothing. And even more shocking, why would he take Jon prisoner and not just kill him outright? The Unsullied have no experience with political prisoners, they are a mindless machine that does what they are directed to do. No more, no less. And to top it all off, they just decide to leave to go to a place with killer flesh eating butterflies.

Arya is just on a boat. To whatever is "west of Westeros". Just because. No real reason given, she just wants to go. Somehow, through all of this, Jon ends up getting screwed the most. "Oh, well this army that is leaving to go get killed by butterflies wants you to go to the wall and rejoin the Nights Watch. Remember? That group that was established to protect the giant wall (which has a gaping hole in it) to defend the county against a threat which was easily defeated already? Yeah go up there again. Bye". But somehow, instead he just keeps going north with his bro Tormund to presumably take the position of King of the Wildlings.
It was really weak and disappointing. So many holes and stupid logic. What a waste.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,065
Points
41
I too found it lame and thought that it was funny that Sam's plug for democracy was shot down so quickly.

Other thoughts:
  • I cheered when Jon killed Danny
  • I am wondering how anyone knew it was John since the dragon carried the body away
  • Why does the north get to remain independent
  • Has Arya ever inquired about the west
  • Do you think that Jon will marry and have children in the wild?
  • Who the hell was the Night King? (I still think he was the mad king...)
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
5,457
Points
20
I too found it lame and thought that it was funny that Sam's plug for democracy was shot down so quickly.

Other thoughts:
  • I cheered when Jon killed Danny
  • I am wondering how anyone knew it was John since the dragon carried the body away
  • Why does the north get to remain independent
  • Has Arya ever inquired about the west
  • Do you think that Jon will marry and have children in the wild?
  • Who the hell was the Night King? (I still think he was the mad king...)
Jon told them of course. He's Jon Snow after all. I'm sure he let everyone know "oh yeah I killed our queen a few minutes ago...do what you must". Arya apparently mentioned "west of Westeros" at least once early on from what I've been reading so far. It sounds like it was very early on in the series, within the first few seasons.

And I too still want to know WTF was up with the entire Night King story line. It was such a huge deal for most of the show, and then suddenly he died, and it was over. Honestly, they had at least 2 more seasons out of this show. S8 should have been about the Night King and subsequent battle against "winter", S9 should have been about the battle for the throne.

It was just a stupid ending to a terrible season of an overall good TV show. S7 and 8 just need to be complete re-do's
 
Top