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Gay Civil Unions

Gay Civil Unions?

  • Let's do this thing America.

    Votes: 28 63.6%
  • I'm not sure, but I think it is the right thing to do.

    Votes: 11 25.0%
  • I'm not sure, but I think it may lead to disaster, dogs and cats living together...

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • No Way. Back in the closet you, you, you...homos.

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • GOD: Revelation 6:12 - And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great ea

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Its legal where I live. (Hawaii and Holland Answer)

    Votes: 1 2.3%
  • I just don't have clue.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    44
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el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,993
Points
30
Currently a hotly debated topic in our nation, please give us your opinion.
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
I say hell yes, If gay people want to have all the bennies and penalties of being in union then they should.
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,432
Points
33
The Irish one said:
I say hell yes, If gay people want to have all the bennies and penalties of being in union then they should.

Interesting you mentioned penalties. I feel couples in committed relationships should get all the benifits heteros get. In thinking about the issue though, the cynic I am, the possibility came to mind of roomamates or such teaming up for familiy health insurance and other benefits. Are the penalities of civil unions enough to prevent this?
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
It could lead to disaster?

I have the same concerns Giff, already we have a problem with illegal aliens marrying US citizens soley to gain entry into the country. I knew a gal in Miami who did that. She was a lesbian and she married a guy from SOuth AMerica and she got cash and never saw him again.

I really don't think this would improve the state of marriage at all, it will add many more problems. Do we really want to invite Uncle Sam into OUr bedrooms so he can monitor the marriages to make sure they're on the up and up I think that's what will have to happen!
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
Of course Uncle Sam needs to stay out of the bedroom and oh man don't get me started with all the gimmicks and scams illegal aliens/ resident aliens/citizens pull off to bring more family and friends into this country -and don't get me started on the POOH POOH PC attitude people have about illegal immigration. This civil union thing is going to be far from perfect and there are going to be all kinds of scams going on. Nevertheless, it's going to happen.
 

Greenescapist

Cyburbian
Messages
1,169
Points
24
I think civil unions may be an acceptable compromise, but I think the just way to go would be to follow Canada's lead and let gays marry. If two people - whichever sex may the be, want to enter into a legal committment with each other - they should be allowed that opportunity. It would be real interesting to see if gays, once committed, actually have stronger and more successful (ie lower divorce, spousal abuse rates) "marriages" than heterosexuals. Let's give them the opportunity.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
Heck, there are a lot of married folks who pretty much just function as "roommates" because they've grown apart/lost interest, whatever. If two people, whoever they are, are in love and want to be married, I say let 'em! Then, if necessary, they can go thru divorce hell just like the rest of us.
 

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
I believe that two people that care about each other should be able to share all the rights and responsibilities that being married allows.
If you are going to live in the same house with another living soul day in and day out you should be able to assist in their affairs should they need assistance.
Isn't that what marriage is about, telling another soul that you care about them and trust them enough that you want them in every aspect of your life.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
they can go thru divorce hell just like the rest of us.
This is one of the funny things in canada right now, and especially Ontario. Gays can marry, but the accompanying legislation still needs to be changed to allow them to divorce.

My only concern is that with teh way our social safety net is (canada) it is going to end up costing me as a taxpayer and insurance payer way more cash (ie survivor benefits, spousal benefits)

Will they get a year off on EI when their "punt dogs" (i.e. minature poodles) have puppies?icon12.gif
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
Im all for folks of whatever orientation having the right to live their lives as one unit, having kids etc etc. After all more Joy/love whatever is a "Good Thing" (tm)
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
The government has to get it's nose our of people's bedrooms, and the Catholic Church has to get it's nose out of the independant goverments of the world.

If people are free, they should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't restrict the liberties of others. And a homosexual civil union, IMHO doesn't restrict anybodies liberties.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,081
Points
34
SkeLeton said:
If people are free, they should be able to do whatever they want to do, as long as they don't restrict the liberties of others. And a homosexual civil union, IMHO doesn't restrict anybodies liberties.
Well said.
 

tsc

Cyburbian
Messages
1,905
Points
23
donk said:
This is one of the funny things in canada right now, and especially Ontario. Gays can marry, but the accompanying legislation still needs to be changed to allow them to divorce.

that will be the kicker... you can't get divorced......kinda like catholicism....

Equality for all is a good thing.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,915
Points
40
It should be a state issue, not a federal one. Each state makes it's own marraige laws, why should civil unions be different?
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
I am all for it. My ony question is: If these Civil Unions are passed on a state by state basis, would they be recognized in states that do not allow them? I think they should apply the same rule that applies to marriage; if you are married in one state, then every other state must recognize the marriage. The same should happen with Civil Unions.
 

Greenescapist

Cyburbian
Messages
1,169
Points
24
Repo Man said:
I am all for it. My ony question is: If these Civil Unions are passed on a state by state basis, would they be recognized in states that do not allow them? I think they should apply the same rule that applies to marriage; if you are married in one state, then every other state must recognize the marriage. The same should happen with Civil Unions.
Repo - you're right, this is a problem. Vermont (not Hawaii, the poll is incorrect) is the only state with civil unions and has had them for three years now, but they are not recognized in any other state. I have a feeling that as additional states pass civil union laws (or legalize gay marriage as Massachusetts might), more conservative states will immediately create legislation to make sure that the union is not valid in their state. I think there was already a test case for this in CT, where a gay couple who had been in a VT civil union tried to file for divorce in CT, but the court said they the state did not recognize the couple's relationship.

NHPlanner made a good point that Bush and everyone is forgetting... marriage laws (and by extension civil union ones) are exclusively state issues. I don't think that the federal government can influence it in any way, other than symbolically like they did with the Defense of Marriage Act that was signed by Clinton in the late 90s.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
I don't care what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. But, I'm strongly against gay adoptions. I just don't think it is fair to the child. They are going to take serious abuse growing up.
 

martini

Cyburbian
Messages
679
Points
19
I'm all for it. As someone else pointed out, it'll be interesting to see the divorce rates and how they measure up to Hetero marriages. This could possibly be one of the things that the conservatives are so afraid of, being shown up at their own 'game'. In my eyes, so long as two people love eachother enough to put thier committment together like this, they deserve to have that r-ship consumated officially. The family is changing, there's no way around that anylonger. It's just a matter of society and religion catching up. I'm eagerly awaiting the Episcopal Bishops vote today regarding the Gay Bishop they may affirm. This would be, I think even better news.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
I say go for it. I don’t really understand why someone would oppose this, even if you don’t like it, it doesn’t hurt you.
 

tsc

Cyburbian
Messages
1,905
Points
23
Mike D. said:
I don't care what you do, as long as it doesn't negatively affect others. But, I'm strongly against gay adoptions. I just don't think it is fair to the child. They are going to take serious abuse growing up.
I would disagree... a social worker will probably scrutinize the couple even more so than if it were a straight couple. Children that come from homes with lots of love and caring will have the self-confidence to overcome whatever cruelty kids... and "adults" dish out at them. And,,, what could be worse than living in an orphanage? Every child wants to be part of a family...and I know children of gay parents.. and they are well adjusted great kids.

Kids will pick on kids for having fat parents, mixed race parents, single parents, old parents, poor parents,,,, and no parents....
 

moose

Member
Messages
109
Points
6
thank you TS -- I was going to go along that line too. If you outlaw gay adoption, you'll also have to outlaw naming your kid anything that sounds even remotely out of the mainstream. I have a friend who just named his daughter Ursula. Something tells me she's going to get a bit of ribbing when she gets to the third grade.

Civil Unions are second class marriages, if you ask me. I realize that people are going to argue it to the bitter end, but I just don't see how allowing gays and lesbians to marry will destroy or erode the sanctity of marriage in any way shape or form. Of course, I am not a religious person, so I understand that I have a very different view of marriage than most (god was pointedly not mentioned at my civil ceremony). I just know that I will be just as married today and I will love my husband just as much as the day that gays and lesbians are allowed to marry (fingers crossed). I loathe how the religious right is treating marriage as some snotty club that only they're allowed into. By their standards, I (a heterosexual female) probably shouldn't be married either.
 
Messages
20
Points
2
aren't there some federal benefits?

Aren't there some federal benefits you straight people get when getting married? Like taxes? Estate stuff?

I think there should be civil unions for everyone, straight or gay - the benefits and penalties of which should be bestowed by the state. Marriage should be an option for anyone who wished to consumate their union with a religious ceremony.

I don't think it's right for the state to strong-arm religious institutions into marrying people whose lifestyle runs counter to their doctrine.

I betcha 10 bucks when it happens, you'll start seeing across the board drops in domestic abuse in homosexual couples and lower std transmission rates.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Re: aren't there some federal benefits?

madhi said:
Aren't there some federal benefits you straight people get when getting married? Like taxes? Estate stuff?
There is still a tax penalty for being married.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
I really don't have a problem with some form of "civil union"; just don't call it a marriage.

One issue that may or may not matter: Marriages are already prone enough to failure. My understanding is that there is a high incidence of domestic violence among gay couples (as opposed to lesbian couples). Are these unions "workable" over the long run, or should we even care?
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
Re: aren't there some federal benefits?

madhi said:
I betcha 10 bucks when it happens, you'll start seeing across the board drops in domestic abuse in homosexual couples and lower std transmission rates.
The cure for a man prone to domestic violence is NOT to marry/civil union them. You CANNOT cure an abuser; the only solution is to leave as fast as possible!!!!

Domestic violence continues, domestic violence escalates!

Any other belief just perpetuates and facilitates the violence!
 

tsc

Cyburbian
Messages
1,905
Points
23
Re: aren't there some federal benefits?

madhi said:


I betcha 10 bucks when it happens, you'll start seeing across the board drops in domestic abuse in homosexual couples and lower std transmission rates.
Marriage doesn't stop the abuse....

I betcha double that you will see drops in domestic abuse for "married/civil union couples" if you combine the stats of heteros and gays.... since the rate for abuse in lesbian couples is so much lower than the rest of the lot.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
Madi i agree with the everyone has a union and its only a "marriage" if you are doing some religous thing.

Im all for having a "partner" in my life not some narrow role definded by a book i dont belive.
 
Messages
20
Points
2
oh crap

Doh I said domestic abuse, when I meant pomiscuous sex.

You're right. Domestic abuse wouldn't be helped by marriage.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
Re: oh crap

madhi said:
Doh I said domestic abuse, when I meant pomiscuous sex.

You're right. Domestic abuse wouldn't be helped by marriage.
I find that mix up funny for some reason.. some like it rough, but not that rough!!
 
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