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Hi there! 👋 Greetings from Holland

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kickert

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Hi,

I was looking for a cool forum on Urban Design, and I sort of bumped into here. So here I am, a Bsc Urbanism student at the Delft Technical University in Holland (yes we have cable tv, so whe must have powerlines here, thank you). This is more like a design school (Urbanism is a sub-department at the Architecture deparment here). I am pretty interested in (studying) american New Urbanism, that was the main reason I found this site. You have some nice discussions going on about this matter, very interesting. I guess New Urbanism is more like European urbanism, high density, more based on a local tradition etc. but I am mainly interested in the way people in the US actually think about it. And I think most people who think about this sort of stuff is spending his/her time around here :).

So hello everybody!
 

PlannerGirl

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Welcome from the Washington DC area. Yes there are a bit of chatter about NU here-some of us like it some of us dont. Just dont ask about wal mart ;-)
 

biscuit

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Welcome from Pennsylvania. :b:

There are often discussions of New Urbanism and it would be great to have another international voice in the fray. So jump in and post often.
 

SGB

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Welcome from central New York State in the USA.

It's always great to get another international perspective here in the forums.
 

kickert

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Sorry for asking, but what's the problem whith Wal-mart? That they have ugly cardboard-box-like buildings all around America? This surely is a problem, that isn't really solved in Europe either. I guess you all know about inner-city shopping centers in Holland, but large grocery stores like Wal-mart are also present there, and I can tell you a big box-like structure is al lot uglier inside a historical city centre than at the sidewalk of a highway....

I hope I will be able to get into New Urbanism... I think I will post a question about it in the student lounge today.
 

NHPlanner

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welcome! :b:

And Sam's law in 6 posts for an introduce yourself post! :p
 

Budgie

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I thought it was Netherlands and that Holland referred strictly to the adjacent coastal region of the North Sea. Maybe I'm mistaken. Anyway, welcome !!!! I've been to the Netherlands on 4 separate occassions, mostly to Utrecht and Amsterdam.
 

nerudite

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Welcome to the boards. If you have an alefest or a 'coffee house fest' in Amsterdam, I'll be sure to try to make it. ;)
 

mendelman

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Welcome from Chicago!

I appreciate most of the theory behind NU, but most of the places with that moniker that have been built here have been diluted by the builders and marketers and the (supposed) demand of the buyers.
 

Trail Nazi

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Howdy from Northern Virginia. I bought my dog from a person in Holland, so he says hello too.
 

Cardinal

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Welcome to Cyburbia. I'm already intrigued by your observations on New Urbanism vs. European Urbanism, and Wal-Mart.

nerudite said:
Welcome to the boards. If you have an alefest or a 'coffee house fest' in Amsterdam, I'll be sure to try to make it. ;)
What is the "alefest" thing you speak of?
 

nerudite

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Cardinal said:
Welcome to Cyburbia. I'm already intrigued by your observations on New Urbanism vs. European Urbanism, and Wal-Mart.



What is the "alefest" thing you speak of?
I almost typed laefest, but thought it would be a bad idea in an introduction post (don't want to use an inside joke that s/he may not get. ;) )
 

JNL

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Welcome kickert from Cyburbia's Ambassador for New Zealand :) There are plenty of discussions on here about NU to keep you amused!
 

Gedunker

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Greetings from time-challendged Indiana.

My gripe with NU is that it is taking palce on greenfields for the most part. To do it right, you should go adjacent to the city center, tear down the mostly post-war crud, and redevelop with NU, but nobody appears to be doing it.

So we plug on with the plain traditional urbanist redevelopment model.

Welcome and enjoy the debate.
 

kickert

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It's nice to hear such enthousiastic replies :). It is true that most NU developments seem to have been built in a rural/suburban setting, it is one of the things I find truly strange. Why doesn't a compact design discipline take more of an inner-city challenge?

Anyway, Holland is indeed the part of the Netherlands by the sea, I live in South Holland to be exact. And in Holland we don't have coffee-house parties all day :). I'm glad to, this would then seriously damage my brain in the end :).
 

Doitnow

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Welkom :-D and utilise the vast resources of Cyburbia for intellectual growth and good fun.
 

Budgie

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kickert said:
And in Holland we don't have coffee-house parties all day :).
The last time my passport had a Netherlands stamp on it, I got strip searched in Atlanta. Go figure !!!
 

kickert

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Well Budgie, since you are talking in this forum right now, I'm sure security didn't find anything :). I hear stories from Dutch people, but if you just keep acting like a normal person, the chance of an extended search or a 2-hour interrogation is not that big. Well, just don't wear any strange hats or beards ;).
 

el Guapo

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Welcome - I had a wonderful time when I visited Holland during my time in the US Army in Germany. Your nation just overwhelmed us with kindness and hospitality. What a great place to live and visit. My fondest memory was hanging out in Amsterdam for a week. I also spend a few days in Hoek van Holland. It is a sea port for the North Sea fairy to Harwich England. I hope I spelled that right.

I did visit a coffee house and the red-light district of Amsterdam, but only as a tourist. I partook of neither flesh nor herb. I used to work on Nukes and they would give us a urinalysis almost monthly. So refffer is right out. Plus, whores and herb look bad on the resume.

I also loved your cops. They were so cool. You have to love a country where the police are “Polite.” At least I think that is how you spell it.

In my wallet I still carry the 5 Guilder note that was the sum total of all the cash I had when I left Holland for the drive back to German when the two weeks were over. I had that note, a tank of gas and two very drunk army buddies in my old Ford Taurus. We pulled into our kassern with the tank reading below "E."

So, welcome to Cyburbia, where we too rely on our dikes and pumps. ;)
 

kickert

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You've spelt everthing totally correctly :). I am sorry to say the 5 guilder note isn't worth anything anymore, we have changed our currency to Euro's.

Thank you for saying our cops are polite. I will tell one when I get caught for driving my bicycle without my lights on. The problem is that sometimes they seem to be too polite, because they are paid for catching criminals, not people with broken bicycle lights like me ;). Anyway, it is Politie with an i in the middle somewhere.

The Amsterdam Red Light district is mainly aimed at tourists. I think, you've really made the right choice to remain passive there. Well... the herb, if you work with nukes it's better to stay sober I guess :). Always nice to see people seem to identify the Netherlands as weed-capital of the world. I am sorry to confess you that Dutch people don't smoke grass all day. Too much really causes brain damage. Just tell me when I'm acting silly ;).

But what did you think of the cities in Holland? Did you like them? I always like to know what foreign people think of Holland :).
 

Budgie

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kickert said:
Well Budgie, since you are talking in this forum right now, I'm sure security didn't find anything :). I hear stories from Dutch people, but if you just keep acting like a normal person, the chance of an extended search or a 2-hour interrogation is not that big. Well, just don't wear any strange hats or beards ;).
I didn't exactly blend in at the time.

el Guapo said:
I also spend a few days in Hoek van Holland. It is a sea port for the North Sea fairy to Harwich England. I hope I spelled that right.
You spelled it correctly. I've been on the ferry from Harwich to the Hoek 4 round trips. The North Sea can be a real bitch. Go sea sick about half the time... of course it may have been the duty free liquor. It seems like it was a 7 hour boat ride. But if you go down the coast to Dover, England you can get to Calias (spelling), France by ferry (1 hour 40 minutes) or by hovercraft (30 minutes). I took the hovercraft. The channel tunnel was only on the drawing board at the time.

You might appreciate that my parents Volvo was delivered to us through the port at Harwich. We went down there to pick it up.
 
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JNA

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Gedunker said:
Greetings from time-challendged Indiana.
Welcome from a Non-Hoosier trapped in time and place.
Gedunker makes me think of
"Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?" by Chicago
 

kickert

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Well right now it barely pays off, when you take the ferry. Low-cost airlines take you anywhere you want for a really low fare. So ferries are mainly for people with cars. I am a student, I travel on the national public transport system for free, so I don't need a car. But those airlines like easyjet and ryanair are really cool. I always like to fly to Venice for 5 cents.... plus taxes (20 euros) ;). Maybe an idea for the next time you go to europe?
 

JNA

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kickert said:
But what did you think of the cities in Holland? Did you like them? I always like to know what foreign people think of Holland :).
I have a connection with Holland - back in the 50's my dad lived there when supervising the construction of an ocean going cargo ship from keel laying to owner's acceptance. He was a Chief Engineer.
Better yet - Mom and Dad got married there.
 

Budgie

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kickert said:
Well right now it barely pays off, when you take the ferry. Low-cost airlines take you anywhere you want for a really low fare. So ferries are mainly for people with cars. I am a student, I travel on the national public transport system for free, so I don't need a car. But those airlines like easyjet and ryanair are really cool. I always like to fly to Venice for 5 cents.... plus taxes (20 euros) ;). Maybe an idea for the next time you go to europe?
Sounds like Europe has it's **** together, it'd be nice if we could say the same for the US.
 

Rem

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Hello and welcome kickert.

I visited the Netherlands in 1986 and enjoyed the experience. You ask what people think of your cities? The only City I visited was Amsterdam and it was very impressive. Very walkable. I remember the bloomen (sorry Dutch spellers) stalls and the raw herrings with chopped onion. Milk from cafes was very popular and cheap - important for backpackers. I can remeber taking a walking tour from the youth hostel and the guide - an architecture student - telling us all to be careful walking around only looking up at the buildings because we needed to look down occasionally to avoid the dog poo on the footpath. He was right but I have heard from friends that public education has overcome that problem. As a city Amsterdam has many fine buildings, streets and plazas. The canals are a signature feature that add beauty, charm and character. I would love to get there again.

Coincidentally I had a grolsch last night. I like the beer but I mainly covet the swing top bottles for home brewing. Cheers :b: , hic.
 

boilerplater

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Welkom aan boord!

Hi kickert,

I've been to Holland many times, having relatives there. My tante (aunt) is in Rijswijk, on the edge of the Hague. I love to walk around older Dutch cities, and I am overdue for another visit. I also like a lot of the more progressive things that are going on in Dutch architecture and landscape architecture. I have several books about it, including Koolhaas overweight tome, S,M,L,XL. Ive been to some of the new towns on polder land, like Almere and Lelystad. Not many tourists go there, but its interesting to someone interested in planning. I envy the kind of control planners wield in the Netherlands. The country is a great lab of urban planning concepts.
 

kickert

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boilerplater said:
Hi kickert,

I've been to Holland many times, having relatives there. My tante (aunt) is in Rijswijk, on the edge of the Hague. I love to walk around older Dutch cities, and I am overdue for another visit. I also like a lot of the more progressive things that are going on in Dutch architecture and landscape architecture. I have several books about it, including Koolhaas overweight tome, S,M,L,XL. Ive been to some of the new towns on polder land, like Almere and Lelystad. Not many tourists go there, but its interesting to someone interested in planning. I envy the kind of control planners wield in the Netherlands. The country is a great lab of urban planning concepts.
Well it is true that a lot of innovative urban concepts are being developed in Holland. We indeed have a lot of modern, progressive architecture going on here... but I'm not sure I like it all that much. Rem Koolhaas, in my opinion, is the author of numerous books about numerous things, but most of his buildings aren't all that. Especially the user-oriented side of buildings like the Dance Theatre and new Dutch embassy in Berlin is highly underdeveloped. People are really complaining about his buildings. In his footsteps, a huge group of architect arise, building stuff without a social (and urban) context. His plan for the communist-propaganda-building in China seriously added to my thoughts about this architect.

I must really be honest, and tell you i have never been in Almere and Lelystad before. I can however tell you that the first city is now trying to grow to half a million inhabitants, while Lelystad has become a disaster, being largely abandoned. I guess for this city the urban planning concept just didn't work. But a lot of cities in the Netherlands are doing fine, mostly the cities with a historical centre.

I am very pleased to hear you like the Dutch architecture, the progressive side. If you want to see the latest-and-greatest in Dutch architecture, you must like the new 'Blob' architecture made by architects like Oosterhuis. At our department, most of the new research is being done in this field. The buildings look a bit strange, but the organic forms can make a very nice sight.
 

tsc

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Yes you have found the very kewlest site ...... Welcome from down state NY!
 

boilerplater

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So I hear...

Rem Koolhaas, in my opinion, is the author of numerous books about numerous things, but most of his buildings aren't all that. Especially the user-oriented side of buildings like the Dance Theatre and new Dutch embassy in Berlin is highly underdeveloped. People are really complaining about his buildings.
Yeah, I've heard Rem's work along with a lot of other Dutch architects, isn't very popular with the general public. And Rem doesn't help his cause with quotes like "No money, no details" when fending off criticism about his buildings coldness and lack of ornamentation. I've seen the Dance theater in The Hague and the Kunst Hal in Rotterdam, but didn't get inside either of them. I like the forms and the spatial experience around them. I also respect the fact that he has the balls to try to give something progressive to the profession. Some of the work may not be all that successful, but that is how we learn and grow as a culture.

So Lelystad has been a big bust huh? To far from anyplace interesting to be worth living in? My impression was that it appeared to be a very engineered environment. Long, laser-straight roads on laser-level land. For the residents who grew up in traditional Dutch towns, it must feel like they've been exiled to a space colony. How is the Bijlmer housing project in Amsterdam faring? That had been nearly vacated too, right?
 

Tranplanner

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This thread has gone way beyond an intro - if you want to discuss modern dutch architecture, maybe y'all should start a thread out in the forums.

thread closed
 
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