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Grounds to Impeach ?

Should the Bush administration be investigated for deceptions leading to war?

  • NO! The intelligence was flawed but we did it for the children.

    Votes: 6 13.3%
  • NO! The intelligence was flawed but remember 911!

    Votes: 6 13.3%
  • NO, the intelligence was flawed but damn we kicked butt, Whats the problem?.

    Votes: 2 4.4%
  • NO! Think of the kittens, the Bush twins are bout to start their SO tour of Bagdad

    Votes: 3 6.7%
  • NO! He should resign and let Cheney handle America's biggest PR fiasco.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • YES! The Bush Admin knowingly used flawed and fabricated intelligence to justify the war on Iraq

    Votes: 22 48.9%
  • YES! If Daddy Bush is out of the white house then the Bush twins can go back to being bad girls

    Votes: 6 13.3%

  • Total voters
    45
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Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
Hey we're a rich nation, have lots of resources to pursue a costly lawsuit against the President. Nixon was impeached for an illegal campaign stunt, CLinton for sullying the oval office with a naked coed planner ;) ;)

Why not the dubious dubya for outright half truths lies and innuendoes, regarding WMD's and Iran's so called nuclear program. at least congress ought to be allowed to create an independent commission to investigate!

But the war is over and peace reigns in Iraq. Are the soldiers still happy to be there? Do they feel like they are making a difference. Well, they are there for the long haul now, and more will be sent and some ain't ever coming back! Who is gonna clean up what may be remembered as America's worst blunder ever?
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
They got a long overdue ass kicking. Wa... See my previous position on this issue.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
Messages
688
Points
20
EG said:
They got a long overdue ass kicking. Wa... See my previous position on this issue.
I must agree with EG...Iraq is a boil on the ass of society.

Besides, it's not like Dubya went to war to deflect attention from yet another scandal...unlike Slick Willie
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
prudence said:
Besides, it's not like Dubya went to war to deflect attention from yet another scandal...unlike Slick Willie
ummmm.... what about the economy?

Otherwise, I agree with you. But George Tenent should take the fall. Off with his head! (note to our Dept of Justice lurker - that is rhetorical and in no way a threat)
 

MitchBaby

Cyburbian
Messages
198
Points
7
Unjust war without reason - another vietnam

The Gulf War was an unjust war, though the removal of Saddam was desirable, who is the US to be the world's police force? If it was found that Bush went to war based on lies and information that he knew to be false, that's an indictable offense. A guy spends 4 billion dollars a month on a war based on half truths, and the previous president gets "blown" by an intern, and people still slam Clinton.

We'll see what happens when the next election comes around - because, as Dear old dad discovered, its the economy, stupid...
 

gkmo62u

Cyburbian
Messages
1,046
Points
24
Stop the madness Jen. There are no lies or half truths.

Congress is allowed to create an "indepent commission." No one is holding them back.

The soldiers are there to the job. Their happiness is of no concern.

I am surprised you left out "quagmire" and "another vietnam"...you must not have that page highlighted in the Liberal Playbook.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,901
Points
38
*sigh* another war thread? Haven't we beat this horse to death before?

I'm about a liberal as they come, but come on now, impeachment? Not likely, and a waste of time and money.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
They would never get the votes necessary to impeach. Plus, its a waste of time and money, just like the Ken Starr investigation. The reason Tenent is taking the fall is because he is a Clinton appointee. My prediction is that Bush will ask for his resignation and replace him with his own guy and the whole "scandal" will go away. My advice to those who want to see Bush gone, wait one more year and vote him out of office. That is my plan.
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
Even though I am by no means a "Bushie," I think that any attempt for impeachment by congressional dems would be misguided and ultimately hypocritical. After all, these are the same people who (unconstitutionally) handed Bush the power to wage war as he saw fit.
 

martini

Cyburbian
Messages
679
Points
19
while Saddam was/is a despot leader that certainly deserved to be removed, the actions taken by our 'president elect' to remove him are certainly suspect. Lying to the general public whether knowingly or unknowingly is jsut plain wrong. He's the president and has the staffing to do the proper research to be sure that what he is stating is true. He quite obviously didn't use his resources. This war, and the war over Afganistant were wrong, but posed as right to get rid of the 'evil islamic' rulers(they also provided convenient cover for the flailing economy). WTF? I maintian that the real reason for these wars is OIL pure and simple. Gotta keep America fat and happy you know!
 

prudence

Cyburbian
Messages
688
Points
20
Chet said:
ummmm.... what about the economy?
The economy flourished because of two reasons:

1. The first breakthough to a service oriented economy occurred...the US is not the producer nation it once was. The economy is not dominated by service industries, not producer industries. Once the techno-weenie (dot.com) revolution subsided the economy has stabillized (menaing not radical gains based upon speculation).

2. Alan Greenspan and the fulfillment of the Reagan-era economics...specifically tax-cuts and the availability of $$$. Reagan lowered the top bracket to 28% (from an earlier 94% after WWII until JFK dropped it to 70% where it remained until 1982). The era ended with the 1990 "budget deal" that increased the top rate back above 30%. Alan Greenspan has stabilized interest rates...remember when they were 18+% in the mid-80s??

Clinton got a free ride for a few years. The economy was going to do what it did regardless who was in office.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
prudence said:
Clinton got a free ride for a few years. The economy was going to do what it did regardless who was in office.
While that may be the case, a lot of voters will hear the question from the Dems "Are you better off than you were 4 years ago" and a lot of people will say "no" and vote based on that. A lot of people tend to vote on emotion rather than logic.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
I'd vote for a monkey if they would and could reduce my income tax level to 30%, last year I paid nearly 40% in income tax.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
donk said:
I'd vote for a monkey if they would and could reduce my income tax level to 30%, last year I paid nearly 40% in income tax.
I think Liverpool, UK is the place you want to be...didn't they actually have some guy in a gorilla suit running for mayor? I don't know what his position on taxes was...
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
He did waht he should of done and the majority of America backed his decision.

NO impeaching here.


Edit: Although I dislike him for other reasons.
 

Greenescapist

Cyburbian
Messages
1,169
Points
24
I think that while it is way too early to say "impeach" (I'm much more reasonable than Congressional Republicans were during the Clinton years) there should be a thorough investigation to figure out when the Bush administration knew they were spewing falsehoods. Bush undertook a big PR effort to get Americans on-board for an Iraq invasion. Voters should be entitled to know if what he was telling them was a truth or if he knew they were outright lies. There is no excuse for the horrible communications going on between Bush, his speechwriters, the Defense dept and the CIA. It looks like Bush would say anything just to get the poll numbers up enough so that they were comfortable launching the invasion.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
I think Liverpool, UK is the place you want to be...didn't they actually have some guy in a gorilla suit running for mayor?


It was Hartlepool and some did it in New Orleans too(1969, 1973, 1977, and 1982 - no wins)
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
Thanks for the link - that was an awesome article. My fav bit:

"Then The Sun's gorilla emerged, clutching his bananas, trying to tempt Mr Drummond into something silly - the same Mr Drummond, now Hartlepool's leading citizen, who once when drunk in H'Angus' suit cavorted onto the pitch with a blow-up doll."
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
What should we impeach him for? Lying? Isn't that the bread and butter of a politician. In my opinion, Dubya knew the intelligence was suspect and used it to drum up a case for war.

Impeachment seems to be the first thing people call for when the president does something wrong or is poltically unpopular. Andrew Johnson escaped impeachment by a single vote and impeachment was a tool used by the Radical Republicans to try to get a "Lincolnite" out of the presidency. Nixon probably would have been impeached and should have been. The Clinton impeachment was a farce (who wouldn't lie to his wife and everyone else when faced with confessing to receiving oral sex from an intern). Clinton's impeachment was a witchhunt from the beginning, and Ken Starr is a lying, hypocritical little prude. I thoroughly enjoyed the fact that Clinton was like the Tar Baby. The more they attacked him, the dirtier his attackers got and the more trouble they got themselves into. It was sweet when self-righteous Bob Livingston got outed by pornagrapher Larry Flynnt.

I would love to see George W out of office. He is bad news for the country in my opinion. Gving Halliburton a fat contract to put out Iraqi oil fires (when Halliburton has zero experience doing so), was clearly a little payback for their support and to help former CEO Dick Cheney. Using the war on terrorism to justify drilling in the Arctic Wildlife Refuge is reprehensible. Did he talk about conservation? Of course not. Conservation measures would be good for the country but not good for Bush and his cronies. As governor, he rubberstamped every death warrant without any review. I have no doubt innocent men were executed as a result. George Bush has a history of not letting his decisions be too muddied up by thinking.

I don't mean to get off on a rant here, as Dennis Miller used to say, but as much as I hate Bush and think he is an awful president, I do not think we should sully our constitution by trying to impeach everyone.

I only hope George Bush Jr. gets his comeuppance in the next election.

Mod. Note - Again, please hit reply instead of new post when replying to a post.
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,713
Points
24
martini said:
and the war over Afganistant were wrong, but posed as right to get rid of the 'evil islamic' rulers(they also provided convenient cover for the flailing economy). WTF? I maintian that the real reason for these wars is OIL pure and simple. Gotta keep America fat and happy you know!
And what threat would be enough for you.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
Ugh...

I knew this thread was coming. I'll be succinct.

Impeach Dubya? No way.

War under false pretenses? Maybe.

Difficult road ahead in Iraq? Definitely.

Was it the right thing to do? Probably not.

Glad to see a horrible regime ousted? No doubt.

Does the nation have the resolve to see this through?

That's the question that will ultimately determine whether Bush stays in office.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
I've got this nagging feeling that Saddam is going to resurface publicly right around the time of the Republican National Covention next year.

I'm not a Bush supporter and I didn't support the war, but I'd HATE to see that happen.
 

Greenescapist

Cyburbian
Messages
1,169
Points
24
pete-rock said:
I've got this nagging feeling that Saddam is going to resurface publicly right around the time of the Republican National Covention next year.

I'm not a Bush supporter and I didn't support the war, but I'd HATE to see that happen.
Yeah that and if they found bin Laden, too, Bush would be untouchable. *shudder*
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Getting OT:

CNN just confirmed that Saddam's sons were killed today. That's one...err two.. point for dubya
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
Saddam's 2 sons reported dead in a shootout with US troops.

Now those are two people I'm happy to see go to a "better" place. :b


Edit: Chet . . . always ahead of the competition with late breaking news!
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,551
Points
24
Greenescapist said:
Yeah that and if they found bin Laden, too, Bush would be untouchable. *shudder*
No, I don't mean that our troops will find him. I've got this feeling Saddam will come out from hiding in August or September next year, shaking hands and talking about a "return to glory", how the Americans "made things worse for Iraqis".

Bush is toast if that happens. And as much as I'd like to see Bush out of office, I'd rather have the nation save face by getting Saddam.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Seabishop said:
Saddam's 2 sons reported dead in a shootout with US troops.

Now those are two people I'm happy to see go to a "better" place. :b


Edit: Chet . . . always ahead of the competition with late breaking news!
Put their god damned heads on pikes on the front lawn of the White House with a sign underneath that says "A Tyrant's Fate". Of course that is how I would do it. :)
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
EG said:
Put their god damned heads on pikes on the front lawn of the White House with a sign underneath that says "A Tyrant's Fate". Of course that is how I would do it. ;)
I was watching CNN at lunch, and they were saying there isn't much left of them, they were cooked up pretty good. Daddy can't be far away, we need to get his a$$ soon.
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
Messages
18,309
Points
44
didn't vote for him, won't vote for him, can't stand the little weasel, but this is not grounds for impeachment.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
gkmo62u said:
Stop the madness Jen. There are no lies or half truths.

Congress is allowed to create an "indepent commission." No one is holding them back.

The soldiers are there to the job. Their happiness is of no concern.

I am surprised you left out "quagmire" and "another vietnam"...you must not have that page highlighted in the Liberal Playbook.
gkmo62u pretty much sums up my feelings on this. Frankly the idea of an impeachment is a little goofy. Judging by the lack of support in the responses it seems like the poll results are being manipulated too.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
pete-rock said:
I've got this nagging feeling that Saddam is going to resurface publicly
Mine is a confident feeling that Saddam will turn up just like his sons did today…
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Re: Ugh...

pete-rock said:
I knew this thread was coming. I'll be succinct.

Impeach Dubya? No way.

War under false pretenses? Maybe.

Difficult road ahead in Iraq? Definitely.

Was it the right thing to do? Probably not.

Glad to see a horrible regime ousted? No doubt.

Does the nation have the resolve to see this through?

That's the question that will ultimately determine whether Bush stays in office.
Pete -

I've noticed how often we tend to think alike. You must be an incredibly intelligent person. ;)
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
Iran's so called nuclear program
Iran is going nuclear, N. Korea is Nuclear and we will tolerate it.
So too, will China, S. Korea, Russia, Japan tolerate it. Who's next?? Some organization with out a state like Al Qaida.

Scary ass world.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Runner said:
Mine is a confident feeling that Saddam will turn up just like his sons did today…
Yup, nice and crispy. They are supposed to release the photos of the biys to the Iraqis today to prove they are dead. i hope CNN has them!
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
a couple dead a-holes a couple more to go! Good job to the SF and other guys that did this (now can some of these guys rotate back home for a few months?)

I hate Bush no doubt about it, no I want to rephrase that-I hate the folks he has telling him what to do. Im not so sure hes able to make choices on his own (this might or might not be a good thing) the hawks he has feeding him information make me sick.

impeach no but damn I do want an investigation.

I did not vote for the daddys boy and i wont the next time-I pray to god the Dems get someone with a flip out there and start geting some other points of view out there to the public.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,901
Points
38
Runner said:
Judging by the lack of support in the responses it seems like the poll results are being manipulated too.
The polls are NOT being manipulated. Many are voting but not replying to the thread.
 

Belle

Cyburbian
Messages
142
Points
6
NHPlanner said:
The polls are NOT being manipulated. Many are voting but not replying to the thread.
I agree with many people here--no impeachment, but definitely an investigation, but I also agree with the line "The Bush Admin knowingly used flawed and fabricated intelligence to justify the war on Iraq". This may be why the numbers seem high...?

I definitely think Bush and his advisors knew the info was questionable when they used it. I was anti-war at the beginning, but I fell for the rhetoric when Bush started trotting out the "evidence" in the State of the Union. I think there were enough other compelling reasons to go into Iraq (the terror campaign the administration was waging against its own people, the numbers of children dying each month of starvation) that he really didn't need to trump up the charges with unconfirmed, and admitedly shaky, intelligence. Let's find out what was known, when, before we call for his head.

As was said before, that is my opinion, but I could be wrong.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I don't think the United States has ever before been involved in a war based on trumped-up evidence. Certainly not the Mexican-American War, the Spanish-American War, the Phillipine War,....
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
There should be a poll option for "NO: He violated the public trust by using fabricated evidence and it should be investigated so we know exactly what went on but he appearently did not break the law which is the only circumstance by which he can legitimately be impeached."
 

Nero

Member
Messages
246
Points
10
Just because you do not like the outcome of the polls does not mean that there is a undercover manipulation going on. There are a lot of Bad Leasders in the world ... does that mean we have to remove them all?... I mean Oh My Gosh their ... their ... unamerican... and if they don't think like us flag waving WASPs then we must do something like overthrow the leader..and of course we are always right because we're Americans.... kiddy up cowboy
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Planificador Urbano said:
I mean Oh My Gosh their ... their ... unamerican... and if they don't think like us flag waving WASPs then we must do something like overthrow the leader..and of course we are always right because we're Americans.... kiddy up cowboy
You're right, a government run on the guise of murder and torure is unAmerican, but who are we to force our lilly white beliefs on?

Where do we dig these people up?
 

Nero

Member
Messages
246
Points
10
Look at Venezuela today should we overthrow their Government? And the dozens of very bad government outhere? Nice comment about digging people up.. I thought it was an open chat.... maybe I'm not in the cyburbia club.
 
Messages
20
Points
2
Perhaps another poll category could be:

NO, Bush and his staff knew exactly what they were doing. They knew the information was questionable. If they didn’t use this piece of data to justify the war, they would have found another.

This is the way our country is run, folks.
 

Nero

Member
Messages
246
Points
10
You're right, a government run on the guise of murder and torure is unAmerican

Texas just executes them... no torture there!

Thanks to a fellow planner for that one!
 
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