BKM said:And, you could carry your entire racing team and all of their equipment!
Budgie said:Someone acting in a vain way by purchasing an SUV is in fact meeting their need to find some sense of self satisfaction. Essentially, I buy an SUV and guzzle gas because I can. And not everyone can, so this makes me superior and I feel good about that. .... After all we do live in a "ME" society.
El Guapo said:Running rubber boats at whaleing boats is so 90's.
Budgie said:I think all this talk of the "market place" is useless without mentioning that we are not talking about unadulterated supply and demand forces. When gas prices start reflecting their true costs, then we will see how attractive SUV's are. Subsidies in various forms (often competing against each other) make the rise of wasteful consumerism possible. Would anyone like to fathom a guess at the amount of money spent on transportation infrastructure, gas price subsidies, policing and public safety related to automobile use, administrative overhead to maintain our glutonous oil policy. Our energy consumption will catch up with us both economically and politically. I have no idea why Britain still claims to be an ally, when the typical brit pays over 3 times as much for petrol.
Michael Stumpf said:I've got to add that the Hummer is an awful thing to drive. Admittedly, I have only driven the military model, but they are far from comfortable and have very poor visibility. At the same time, they are great for difficult terrain.
I think it is a bit much to talk of the demise of the SUV. They are always going to be around. The question is whether other vehicles may begin to be more appealing. It would be interesting to see a comeback of the station wagon. When so many automakers virtually eliminated them, people needing room for family or cargo had little choice but to go the SUV route. I also suspect that aging boomers will find cars more appealing, although these will not be Honda Civics. They will go for the big cars.
El Guapo said:
When you quit worrying about what your neighbors and frineds will think and accept that you are a SW man it gets easier.
Budgie said:El Guapo:
Who are the "you guys" you are referring to? You lost me here? Who is Tom Hayden? Maybe I don't watch enough sitcoms to know what this means.
Need I remind you that your very livelihood is based in part on regulating and subsidizing as is your salary. Let's just drop the "free market" and "democracy" references because they don't exist.
Budgie said:At what point is choice being threatened in my comments? Please enlighten me !!!!!
Making a choice implies that full knowledge of the options exists. Price is part of knowledge and if the price is not representative of the true costs, an educated choice can not be made. Freedom of choice is central to my argument and might I say of the entire economic thought of capitalism. Central to capitalism is "knowledge" reflected in price. Did those owning Enron Stock have full knowledge? NO !!!!!!!!!!! Are SUV and gas purchasers being given knowledge of the true costs? I don't think so. What would happen if tomorrow all farm subsidies were taken out of the "fair market"? You'd have to shift you resources from excessive automobiles to food, that's assuming you didn't get laid off due to the shock the economy would go through when the subsidies are yanked out from under you.
Rebuttal, please !!!
Budgie said:Making a choice implies that full knowledge of the options exists. Rebuttal, please !!!
Budgie said:My comments regarding Enron had nothing to do with Oil or Energy policy. They had everything to do with the fact that the stock price did not reflect the true nature of the investment people made in Enron. The same is true for food prices, gas prices and anything else that involves tinkering by the Federal government.
At what point is recognizing that excessive energy usage is going to have negative consequences, a apocolyptic doomsday forecast?
Shifting burdens !!! By your definition of socialist, that's exactly what the system the the USA is "socialist". And yes, the burden is shifted, in part because the negative externalities have to be dealt with. For example: farm subsidies (shifted burden) keep food cheap, so that American's can eat. I think this is a good thing. Why, because our country is stable because of it. Everyone benefits. Why does the NFL spread around the wealth? Because it benefits the whole. The NFL is socialist.
El Guapo, did someone kick your dog today? I'll let you rest.
Budgie said:The market place theoretically satisfies the buyers needs when the consumer acts in "rational self interest". Someone acting in a vain way by purchasing an SUV is in fact meeting their need to find some sense of self satisfaction. Essentially, I buy an SUV and guzzle gas because I can. And not everyone can, so this makes me superior and I feel good about that. In fact I am superior enough that I don't care if I kill you in an accident because I'm also paying for the false sense of security I get with such a massive vehicle. After all we do live in a "ME" society.
Obviously, there are many other reasons people buy SUV's, such as cargo room, although you'd be amazed at how much baby equipment and children will fit into a Ford Windstar.
Dan said:Where's the line between "gas hog" and "socially acceptable motor vehicle?
Dan said:Why do we hate SUVs, but not minivans with only slightly better gas mileage? Why aren't we cursing the Confederate crowd in west Orange County, Florida, with their love of obscenely huge pickups? It's okay to hate Buffy because she drives an Explorer, but not Bubba for his Ford F-350 crew cab duallie? (I ain't puttin' no g'damn sheetrock in there ... it'll scratch the g'damn bed!) Where's the line between "gas hog" and "socially acceptable motor vehicle?"
To me it just seems like very few people can justify getting the SUVs compared to other types of vehicles. Bubba really does need his pickup to haul his sheetrock and deer carcasses, and Aunt Carol needs the minivan for her 4 kids. "Josh from Accounting," on the other hand, doesn't need a rugged sport utility vehicle to get to the office park. He needs it to look like a successful MAN to his neighbors, his co-workers, other commuters, and THE LADIES. Very few people actually use them to drive up dirt mountain roads or whatever the hell they're really made for.
To me it just seems like very few people can justify getting the SUVs compared to other types of vehicles. Bubba really does need his pickup to haul his sheetrock and deer carcasses, and Aunt Carol needs the minivan for her 4 kids.
Michael Stumpf said:Do people really need a car that goes 140 mph?
Its funny, the Hispanic kids who blatantly will tell you they soup up their cars just for status and getting laid at least mostly drive fuel efficient Japanese cars. (yes, I am aware that not all Hispanic people do this)