How High is Too High? (aib Gas Prices)

[Gedunker]

A story on ABC's website showed gas prices in San Rafael, Cal from $2.19 to $2.39 (US per gallon) and it made me think, at what figure would gas prices alter the way you live -- e.g., use public transit; walk; cancel a vacation trip; buy a Segway; or, what have you? (Obviously the ripple effect would impact the entire economy, but let's keep it how it would effect your mobility).

I'm pretty fortunate to put very few miles on my vehicle every week, so I think I could stomach prices in the $3.00/gallon range (unhappily, of course). And Mrs. Gedunker and I have already booked a vacation in Orange Beach, AL which we would not cancel, even at $3.00/gallon (although there'd be a lot less dicretionary money on hand, sorry kids).

Your thoughts?

 

[Planderella]

I'll just have to suck it up and pay for the gas, regardless of the price. I live way too far away from my job to even consider public transit (which sucks anyway and would almost cost as much as filling up the tank) and need my car for meetings and such.

 

[Tranplanner]

I don't drive enough for gas prices to make a serious dent in my budget. And I don't think I'd put off the occasional long-distance trip we make just because of gas prices. I'm hoping to start using a new or re-conditioned bike this spring to cut down on auto trips, regardless of gas prices.

They are talking about gas prices in the 85 cent/litre (Cdn.) range for this summer (it's hovering around 72 right now). I say bring it on - just hope that the fed/provincial governments follow through on their promise to dedicate a portion of the gas-tax to municipalities!

 

[NHPlanner]

I'm at the mercy of the prices as well...having a 30 mile commute...fortunately, there are a couple of places I can still get gas for around $1.59/gal.

My next car is gonna be a Civic hybrid.....I want 50 mpg!

 

[Chet]

I'll just have to suck it up and pay for the gas, regardless of the price. I live way too far away from my job to even consider public transit (which sucks anyway and would almost cost as much as filling up the tank) and need my car for meetings and such.

I'm in the same line of thinking. Yesterday I paid $1.98 for premium and drove 235 miles at 15 miles to the gallon. Basically $31.00 in gas + wear and tear and $88.00 in employer reimbursement, so no need to complain.

 

[Trail Nazi]

These gas prices are killing me. Yesterday, I paid $1.79 for the cheap stuff. I have a 24-mile round trip commute, so it is not like I am going too terribly far. It is amazing how city driving can take a toll on the mpg. I can't wait for a larger hybrid car to come out in 2005.

 

[boiker]

right now it's getting to me 1.77 a gal and about 130 miles round trip commute.

add that up. At least it's only temporary. By Mid-April my round trip will be 4 miles.

 

[SGB]

I'll just have to suck it up and pay for the gas, regardless of the price. I live way too far away from my job to even consider public transit (which sucks anyway and would almost cost as much as filling up the tank) and need my car for meetings and such.

I'm in the same situation as Planderella. I drive +110 miles daily for my commute, and there is no public transit that can get me to and fro.

When I cash in on all the European internet lottery winning announcement I receive in my email, however, I'm gonna get a Hummer H2 outfillted with a hydrogen engine, just like the Governator.

 

[ludes98]

Put me down as sucking it up. We will be over $2 for the cheap stuff at most gas stations soon. I use about 20-30 gallons a week. 8-! If it gets really high I could ride my bike the 9 miles to work but I need the vehicle for work related activities, plus riding in 115 degree weather would suck.

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

I ride the loser cruser. Maybe I'll drive every few weeks or so, but the truck has been collecting dust and squirrels up until recently. Once its time to do signal timings, I'll have to steal it back from the significant other.

 

[H]

It will not be high enough until rail becomes economically feasible to move our people and goods again. Then maybe we can start to eliminate some of those sprawling parking lots and make communities walkable again. This might even help our country's obesity problem. But it probably wont. It just seems to be too much fun driving over to Greasy Burger World in new shiny new suburban tanks then going home and watch people do things on TV.

So, come on everyone, tell me why this is bad again....I have forgotten since the last go around.

 

[Gedunker]

I ride the loser cruser, but the truck has been collecting dust and squirrels up until recently.

[OT]RT: I was secretly laughing at my neighbor who recently plunked down $1000 for damage squirrels did to wiring in his truck then I tried to make a phone call Sunday and the phone was dead. Come to find out, the d@mn squirrels ate through my phone line. He who laughs last, laughs best, eh? Of course, the neighbor has dispatched a number of critters over the last few days, so maybe that problem is done.[/OT]

H I don't think that high gas prices are necessarily a bad thing (if people actually do things to change), I'm just curious as to what Cyburbia's market will bear.

 

[H]

H I don't think that high gas prices are necessarily a bad thing (if people actually do things to change), I'm just curious as to what Cyburbia's market will bear.

Ah... they wont effect me. If they went to 0$ or 10$ a gallon I will still avoid driving at all costs, but drive when I have to, and unfortunately I live in an environment where I often have to and I HATE to drive!

 

[michaelskis]

I think that if it hits $2.00 for basic unleaded in the Mid West… the world will stop, people will riot, and citizens will demand something be done. I will smile and wave as I ride by bike, and inform them that I will not dive to work unless it is raining out.

I would not mind seeing it get a bit higher… I think that lot of people need a slap in the face when it comes to their cars.

 

[Wulf9]

If you drive a 20 mpg car now and buy a 40 mpg hybrid, the relative cost for gas will drop from $2 per gallon to $1 per gallon.

That's one of the reasons our highways don't get repaired. Gas taxes are per gallon or per dollar spent. When they were passed, average mpg was in the 10-12 mpg range. Gas mileage doubled. Taxes didn't. So mileage driven has doubled in relationship to dollars available for roadways. And there hasn't been an adjustment for inflation either.

 

[Super Amputee Cat]

Actually, as I stated before, the average price of gas over the past few years has still been among the lowest over the last 60 years. 2003 was ranked 18th cheapest in prices since at least 1945.

The 10 cheapest years (Adjusted for Inflation = In 2003 dollars).

1998 = $1.19
1999 = $1.27
2002 = $1.37
1994 = $1.37
1995 = $1.38
1997 = $1.41
1993 = $1.41
1996 = $1.43
1986 = $1.45
1988 = $1.47

The 10 costliest years (Adjusted for Inflation = in 2003 Dollars)

1981 = $2.69
1980 = $2.66
1982 = $2.39
1983 = $2.25
1979 = $2.15
1984 = $2.15
1945 = $2.09
1946 = $2.07
1947 = $2.06
1948 = $2.05

At $1.58, 2003 was the 18th lowest of all. 2004 is shaping up to be a little higher at about $1.60 through the end of February, but that's still cheaper than all of the 1940s, 1950s, 1960s and most of the 1970s and 1980s.

People buying gas in 1980-1981 really had something to bitch about. I should know, that's when I first started to drive!

*Keep in mind that this is the average U. S. price for gas, after taxes, over the course of each year. Of course, some markets will be much higher and some will be much lower, and prices can fluctuate greatly within any one year. Just look at 2001. Who knew that we'd be paying less than 80 cents a gallon in some markets less than two months after the terrorist attacks.

 

[BKM]

Hello, my name is Brian, and I am a driveaholic.

"Help me, oh higher power, to realize that I don't have to drive to the Bay Area every weekend day."

I'll suck it up, myself. Luckily, my commute is only 8 miles-and I could uncomfortably do it via bicycle.

Interesting little doom and gloom tale: http://www.newcolonist.com/dim_ages.html

 

[Zoning Goddess]

I won't cut back (I don't drive much anyway - most of the year) and higher prices won't be a consideration for a couple months, which is when we'll be wanting to hit the beach every weekend.

 

[biscuit]

Being that I either walk to work or ride the "Loser Cruiser," and my new ride gets around 30mpg, $2.00+/gallon doesn't matter that that much to me. Although, it may curtail a few of the weekend roadtrips I like to take. That's a shame too because I love taking roadtrips. :-D

The problem is with my fiancee who commutes over 50 miles roundtrip at least 5 days a week. Her vehicle only gets 15mpg and is currently costing her a fortune to keep gassed up. I'd switch rides with her but she's not fully insured on my car yet. Hopefully all that will change when we get married and she she finds herself a new job a good bit closer.

 

[Cardinal]

Liesure travel will suffer. (You hear that, Wisconsin Dells?) The travel and tourism industry is already suffering, so they are in for another hard year.

 

[martini]

I'm forced to commute roughly 25 miles each way, so I'll have to suck it up for sure. The car I'm driving certainly doesn't help the fuel matters either. I don't mind the driving, in fact, I'd love to grab a Mini or something like that that is fun to drive and gets good milage.

 

[Downtown]

We have an 8 mile round trip commute (but we also come home for lunch). The only way gas prices would really affect our lifestyle is in our next vehicle choice. We'll have to get a larger vehicle to fit three carseats in a couple years, and our choice would be affected by gas prices, if they got above, say $3.

 

[Super Amputee Cat]

Liesure travel will suffer. (You hear that, Wisconsin Dells?) The travel and tourism industry is already suffering, so they are in for another hard year.

This is not necessarily a bad thing. I'd happily pay $2.00/gallon knowing the highways won't be clogged with SUVs and we may be able to get a motel room somewhere without paying yuppie prices.

 

[Big Easy King]

Despite the high prices across the board, we're still fortunate to buy regular unleaded at some gas stations in the Big Easy for $1.86 per gallon.

When is this madness going to end?

 

[giff57]

I live here, nuff said

 

[SGB]

I'm at the mercy of the prices as well...having a 30 mile commute...fortunately, there are a couple of places I can still get gas for around $1.59/gal.

My next car is gonna be a Civic hybrid.....I want 50 mpg!

I laugh at your puny 30 mile commute! Mine is 52 miles - each way. Not a chance of any public transit, so I'm at the mercy of the prices.

[ot]Anyone else seem to remember a time when a Civic got >45mpg, and it wasn't a hybrid? Sometime in the '80s, perhaps. Or am I dreaming?[/ot]

 

[Duke Of Dystopia]

......So, come on everyone, tell me why this is bad again....I have forgotten since the last go around.

To see my youngest son, in another state, now costs me close to $60 a weekend, just to get there. I don't find the thaught of my son not seeing me because other people say it is good for me/us appealing.

I understand what you are getting at, but it is inflexible among other things. I will spare the nasty coments, but try to remember that every time that price on gas goes up, people at the bottom suffer more by many times, than that person you take aim at that can afford an SUV.

 

[ludes98]

[ot]Anyone else seem to remember a time when a Civic got >45mpg, and it wasn't a hybrid? Sometime in the '80s, perhaps. Or am I dreaming?[/ot]

Yes they did. It was the little CRX and they made an HF model that had a forty something mileage rating.

 

[giff57]

Yes they did. It was the little CRX and they made an HF model that had a forty something mileage rating.

Just try to buy a cheap CRX nowdays, cripes they have them all hot rodded up and they are not cheap.

My neice had one of those and it pushed 50mpg highway

 

[Dragon]

Just try to buy a cheap CRX nowdays, cripes they have them all hot rodded up and they are not cheap.

My brother bought one for that reason. After a few years, and a few wrecks he has finally given it up though.

I think the gas prices are pretty high now, too high would be around $3.00 per gallon in my opinion. My car gets about 32 mpg in the city, though I only do about 6 miles round trip.

I have been thinking about getting a bike, and riding to work. The gas hike is making me think even more about it. I just don’t want to bike to work in the heat & humidity of the south, and end up at work sweaty and smelly. Plus the city area I live in isn’t very biker friendly.

 

[Rumpy Tunanator]

Seeing how I haven't bought gas in over 3 months, I'll find out the horror next week.:-c

 

[Miles Ignatius]

Threshold of Pain

I've got a 25 mile roundtrip commute on a fairly efficent vehicle - a 97' Camry with the 4 cylinder. I suppose the limit for me would be in the $5 range but regardless of gas prices, when Denver's Light Rail is built out along my route (2005-06), the car's in the garage, for good!

I'd be doing the bus now but because of the funky routes, I have to make several time consuming transfers..

 

[BKM]

I live here, nuff said

Well, to me that says" Horse and Buggy Days are back!"

 

[iamme]

I understand what you are getting at, but it is inflexible among other things. I will spare the nasty coments, but try to remember that every time that price on gas goes up, people at the bottom suffer more by many times, than that person you take aim at that can afford an SUV.

I would just like to ask your opinion of the effects of gas prices on those that cannot afford a car. I would also wonder what you think the effect on public transit is when people give up using their car, even just part of the time? Would increased public transit services benefit any one group that uses those service generally at a higher rate then the rest of the populace in general? Just food for thought.

 

[Planderella]

I would just like to ask your opinion of the effects of gas prices on those that cannot afford a car. I would also wonder what you think the effect on public transit is when people give up using their car, even just part of the time? Would increased public transit services benefit any one group that uses those service generally at a higher rate then the rest of the populace in general? Just food for thought.

Wouldn't the cost of public transit eventually rise as well? I don't think buses are that much more fuel-efficient than gas-guzzling SUVs. If more people take the bus, more buses will be needed, thus increasing operation and maintainence costs. Am I over-simplifying this?

 

[jresta]

Wouldn't the cost of public transit eventually rise as well? I don't think buses are that much more fuel-efficient than gas-guzzling SUVs. If more people take the bus, more buses will be needed, thus increasing operation and maintainence costs. Am I over-simplifying this?

Transit agencies don't use regular unleaded, they don't pay retail prices, the gas mileage isn't as bad as you'd think, and the cost is spread out over thousands of trips per day. We have a big bus fleet here but half of daily trips in the region are carried on electric subways, trains, and trolleys. When the cost of diesel gets to a certain point we'll see our abandoned trolley lines make a comeback.
This doesn't mean they're not feeling a slight pinch but it's nowhere near what Jane SUV is feeling. I think healthcare costs remain a much bigger concern.

***
I should be shocked that only one person mentioned moving closer to work or working closer to home as a solution . . . this is after all a planner's board . . . but somehow i'm not surprised at all. Mother Nature isn't making anymore oil. That means gas prices are not only never coming down but also that they'll continue to outstrip inflation at an ever accelerating rate*. Millions of americans should be preparing to kiss their faux-rural/i'll work anywhere i want in a 100 mile radius lifestyles goodbye . . . or bite the bullet and pay the proper cost of it.

*disclaimer - we could always go to war with China and devastate as much of their economy as possible or we could consolidate our control over the Persian Gulf and knock out Chavez and have it piped straight to our shores. this might stabilize the price of oil for a decade or so.

 

[boiker]

I should be shocked that only one person mentioned moving closer to work or working closer to home as a solution . . . this is after all a planner's board . . . but somehow i'm not surprised at all. Mother Nature isn't making anymore oil. That means gas prices are not only never coming down but also that they'll continue to outstrip inflation at an ever accelerating rate*. Millions of americans should be preparing to kiss their faux-rural/i'll work anywhere i want in a 100 mile radius lifestyles goodbye . . . or bite the bullet and pay the proper cost of it.

I've kinda looked at it that way. I bought a house a comfortable bike ride from work(downtown), a long walk from work, and a very short drive. There is a bus stop 3 blocks from my house that stops about 3 blocks from work. Monthly unlimited pass is $25. I probably spend more than that on insurance for my second car.

I figure as prices of fuel inch upward, the location value of my house in my neighborhood will continue to increase. I don't know how this will counter balance with rising intrest rates and a potential increased economic distress.

Either way, I have redundancy in my transportation system. For many, there is no redundancy and that is where the price increases will cause the most problems.

 

[Duke Of Dystopia]

I would just like to ask your opinion of the effects of gas prices on those that cannot afford a car. I would also wonder what you think the effect on public transit is when people give up using their car, even just part of the time? Would increased public transit services benefit any one group that uses those service generally at a higher rate then the rest of the populace in general? Just food for thought.

Thats assuming that the increse in tax money would go toward mass transit systems.

Assuming that in a 24 hour society in which we live, that municipalites will extend buss services to all parts of the munipality at all times, even when that service will remain unprofitable.

I think both of those assumptions will remain unfullfiled. But the discussion of higher taxes on gas is not a mass transportation issue discussion. It is a punitive penalty discussion on how to control people you don't agree with. That I disagree with.

I also like to temper the "ethical" approach of the greatest good for the greatest number.

 

[Planderella]

I should be shocked that only one person mentioned moving closer to work or working closer to home as a solution . . . this is after all a planner's board . . . but somehow i'm not surprised at all. Mother Nature isn't making anymore oil. That means gas prices are not only never coming down but also that they'll continue to outstrip inflation at an ever accelerating rate*. Millions of americans should be preparing to kiss their faux-rural/i'll work anywhere i want in a 100 mile radius lifestyles goodbye . . . or bite the bullet and pay the proper cost of it.

BEK and I attended a homebuying seminar a few weeks ago where one of the group exercises was to select particular qualities that you would seek out when purchasing a home. NO ONE selected the "work close to home" option. The argument there was "out of sight, out of mind" or the general feeling that these people did not want to be anywhere near their jobs during their off-hours, which I think is understandable because I don't want to be around my co-workers either.

I think moving closer to work or maybe vice versa is an option only if you see some long-term value in that. I don't see myself staying at my present job for any more than five years and I certainly don't want to invest in this locale by moving here for a seemingly short period of time. Until I get another job that will put me back downtown closer to my home, public transit and better amenities, I'll have to pay the costs of commuting.

 

[biscuit]

***
I should be shocked that only one person mentioned moving closer to work or working closer to home as a solution . . . this is after all a planner's board . . . but somehow i'm not surprised at all. Mother Nature isn't making anymore oil. That means gas prices are not only never coming down but also that they'll continue to outstrip inflation at an ever accelerating rate*. Millions of americans should be preparing to kiss their faux-rural/i'll work anywhere i want in a 100 mile radius lifestyles goodbye . . . or bite the bullet and pay the proper cost of it.

Living close to work has always been a big deal to me. The move I’m making this weekend will be to the first apartment I’ve ever had that wasn’t within walking distance to the office, but it is on a bus line and within biking distance should I choose to do that. Having grown up in the country, where it was a thirty minute drive to get anywhere, I know what a major pain it is spending all your time in the car. I also saw what a waste of resources and money it is when every person in the family had to have their own vehicles. The fiancee is currently working in West Virginia but will soon be quitting that job. Yes, we’ll be starting out on one income until she finds other emplyment here, but we both decided that a 160 mile (257km) daily round trip just wasn’t worth it.

 

[boiker]

..........NO ONE selected the "work close to home" option. The argument there was "out of sight, out of mind" or the general feeling that these people did not want to be anywhere near their jobs during their off-hours, which I think is understandable because I don't want to be around my co-workers either.

I agree with Biscut when I say that living close to work is a bigger bonus than any bonus that out of sight, out of mind could bring.

I do not have to spend more than 8 minutes in my car to get to work or back. That gives me more time for myself at my house, with my family, or doing recrational things. I can cook a creative dinner dinner and eat before 6pm.

I think both of those assumptions will remain unfullfiled. But the discussion of higher taxes on gas is not a mass transportation issue discussion. It is a punitive penalty discussion on how to control people you don't agree with. That I disagree with.

I think it's more important to level the playing field of transportation options rather than penalize one over another. We shouldn't force people to not drive.. but we shouldn't be creating scenerios where driving is the only option.

 

[BKM]

*disclaimer - we could always go to war with China and devastate as much of their economy as possible or we could consolidate our control over the Persian Gulf and knock out Chavez and have it piped straight to our shores. this might stabilize the price of oil for a decade or so.

Hey, are you channelling the current NeoCon Project for an American Century? (Or whatever bs their thinktanks are peddling!)

One of the reasons for staying at my current job is just that-I don't want to be dependent on a long commute. I drive far too much for recreation, but...I don't have to.

 

[mendelman]

...a 160 mile (257km) daily round trip just wasn’t worth it.

I think we found the winner for longest commute on cyburbia.

I thought my commute was long - 60 miles round trip.

 

[jordanb]

Too high for me is when stagflation sets in, and not a penny less.

I've looked at the CTA's budget once. Fuel is a pretty small part of it. They'll feel a bit of a pinch but it won't affect their finances, and will likely be more than offset by the increase in ridership.

 

[biscuit]

I think we found the winner for longest commute on cyburbia.

I thought my commute was long - 60 miles round trip.

She'll be thrilled to learn that she won something.

Yep, that would be a doozy for her. Even now she has a roundtrip of 58 miles (the reason she’s taken over my Honda, sticking me with her gas hog Jeep), but 160 miles, well that’s just ridiculous. She said that she’d go nuts if she had to drive that five days a week and I really don’t want her to be doing it either, [just kidding] especially when she should spend that time at the house cleaning, doing laundry and cooking my dinner all while wearing sexy lingerie ;-) [/just kidding]

 

[Seabishop]

...I think moving closer to work or maybe vice versa is an option only if you see some long-term value in that. I don't see myself staying at my present job for any more than five years and I certainly don't want to invest in this locale by moving here for a seemingly short period of time. Until I get another job that will put me back downtown closer to my home, public transit and better amenities, I'll have to pay the costs of commuting.

Exactly, you can blame it on a sense of entitltment or whatever you want, but I (and many others on here) are not at the stage of my career where I know I'll be in the same place for long. I'm staying in the same general area but I've been looking within a large radius. If a job really works out, then the closer house can follow. Staying near the urban area of course can usually minimize commuting time but then again jobs are everywhere - a lot of planning jobs are for the small towns recently besieged by new development.

In 2 income families you're split in different directions - a problem you didn't have years ago. Another factor is the attractiveness of "in between" areas - where you can access 2 major cities at once (Jersey suburbs, Maryland, etc).

 

[salomondesignboarder]

just a sidenote...one thing that has always amazed me is how far people will commute to their jobs...while the lack of public transit is always a big issue and I could go on all day about the terrible lack of funding our government puts into mass transit, I still can not believe someone will spend more then 30 minutes traveling to work each way.

I'm in the same situation as Planderella. I drive +110 miles daily for my commute, and there is no public transit that can get me to and fro.

When I cash in on all the European internet lottery winning announcement I receive in my email, however, I'm gonna get a Hummer H2 outfillted with a hydrogen engine, just like the Governator.

I vorgot zu mentiun zat se Hum-vee should ve blown zu smiztherines!

 

[spatialmongrel]

Quick philosophical rant against cars

Ah... they wont effect me. If they went to 0$ or 10$ a gallon I will still avoid driving at all costs, but drive when I have to, and unfortunately I live in an environment where I often have to and I HATE to drive!

One of the primary underlying causes to this incredible reliance on the automobile is our mindset on how we get around. Listen. The primary mode of transportation is not the car, it is your legs. Walking is how you get around, and your legs (and arms for wheelchairs) are how you operate machinery that zips you around faster. All of these additional optional elements are alternatives to walking. Bicycles are an alternative mode of transportation. Cars are an alternative mode of ransportation. Walking is how you move around, and it is the primary way you do it. If we think the primary mode of transport is the car, then the primary design consideration will be for the car. Hello, slave to high gas prices.

I'm firmly convinced that a small change in priorities can and will have a big impact on how much gas we use, how we design our neighbourhoods, and how we go about our daily lives. It will probably get us in better shape, too. If high gas prices cause even one person to stop using their Hummer to commute to work or go to the video store and instead use their god-given legs for something other than pushing the gas pedal, it will have been worth every penny.

 

[Richmond Jake]

Boy did I pick a crappy time to drive across country (starting next week). Currently $2.19/gallon here.

 

[metroboi]

As noted above inflation adjusted gasoline still has not reached the levels it did in the late 70s/early 80s when at times you could not buy the stuff no matter what the price. In those days there were waiting lists on 4 cyl, 5 speed small cars that would get 45mpg on the highway. And there were a lot of alternative plans to end our reliance on foreign oil. Anyone remember gas-a-hol?

Unfortuately gasoline got cheap again in the 80s, we went back to buying large cars, and the alternative fuel programs disappeared. Its the 70s all over again and our foreign policy is all designed at keeping the Saudi Royal family happy.

Hopefully this time around we will do something more permanent about it. At least now people are talking about mass transit and stopping sprawling development which, as we all know is the biggest reason we have his problem. In the 70s they did not have this mindset yet.