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In a rut (again)

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
arrgh.

For some reason, I can't seem to get myself motivated this week to get much work done. As much as I want to tackle the piles of files stacked in my office, I really really don't feel much motivated to do anything more than doodle and surf.

I think my problem is the lack of "gotta get it down by yesterday" projects currently on my plate. That was last week - had no problem staying focused then, but now it's a bit of different story.

I really like my job - working for the City has been the realization of a major goal for me. It's not a job satisfaction problem, more of a "me-being-a-lazy-bastard" problem.

How do other planners out there keep themselves motivated? Or are we all just sitting on are arses out there waiting for the next post to Cyburbia to appear?
 

Glomer

Member
Messages
207
Points
9
I hear ya!!!!

I have scheduled meetings with people all afternoon and haven't done my homework on a few of the issues. I just can't get myself motivated.

I too love my job and my lack of motivation has nothing to do with job disatisfaction. when you find a cure, send it my way, meanwhile I'll just wait for the next cyburbia post.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Moods...

Most times I can look at my list, realize what needs doing right away, and get it done. Of course, that means I can also tell at a glance what I can put off!

I'd say I try and get all the "right aways" done, and then put in some time on the long term stuff every day.

But... there are also those times when a mood hits that almost makes it impossible to function properly. I suppose I've had some that run a few days, and term that a "funk".

Having a citizen scream out that I'm a pinko commie just makes me chuckle inside. Having the City Council side with the citizen after they directed me to write the ordinance... would put me in a funk.

It's at that point that you want to throw up your hands and say, "FINE! Enjoy your little 'burg with cars up on blocks, billboards everywhere, no trees... sidewalks... parks... I am OUT of here." (I suppose that's almost what I did at my last job.)

I guess you just suck it up and grind it out, or find a new place or new job!

<End of rant>
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
YES!!!!

Tran, I'm with you. Again, love my job, and am so grateful to be here, but there are definitely days where I'm checking cyburbia every hour. I've always been a procrastinator, and a little on the manic depressive side. So when I'm slacking, I'm big time slacking. However, when I'm up, like today, I'm just a hotbed of productivity. My advice is on days when you are not feeling quite so fiery productive, set aside smaller goals, such as ok, i will file everything in this handfull here, and then i'll go make myself some coffee. Maybe we should start a support group, Procrastinating Planners Anonymos.
 

SW MI Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,195
Points
26
I too absolutely love my job, but lately I have been SO unproductive. I get done what I *need* to get done, but am finding it hard to get motivated for the rest. My daily planner (go figure) is covered in arrows pointing to the following days where I promise myself I will do items A, B, and C.

I'm in same boat, so if you figure it out....let me know!
 

mugbub

BANNED
Messages
67
Points
4
Are you fu**ing kidding me?

I'm sorry, but I cannot hold back my anger any longer. I know you're not the only one in this situation, but I'm not going to sympathize with you like the other liberals will.

God almighty! You wouldn't last 2 weeks in the private sector (real world). I admire your candor, but you really exposed yourself as a stereotypical lazy ass government worker. You've got a pile of shit to do, right? Well do it! And planners wonder why government workers are carry a stigma of laziness with them. You're living proof. The citizens of your town pay alot a fricking taxes for you to screw off all day.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
I wasn't asking for your sympathy dickhead - I was merely asking how other planners dealt with periods where they feel less than productive or motivated.

I have worked in the private sector, and the workers there aren't any more dedicated to their jobs than they are in the public sector - in fact most the work I see done by private consultants is a pile of crap that was likely put together at the last minute (and likely copied from other studies).

I didn't say I wasn't getting any work done, just that the lack of pressure of "deadline" projects is making it difficult for me to focus on the more mundane tasks. I don't have secretaries or admin staff like most private sector people do to do all that for me.

Excuse me for being human.
 

mike gurnee

Cyburbian
Messages
3,066
Points
30
Hey Tran,
Try creating your own arbitrary deadlines and goals. My problem is often the opposite of yours: when I don't feel like focusing on a major project, I work on the mundane (revising application forms is less stressful than fighting the city engineer over transportation plans). But eventually the transportation element has to get done--just not today. Today I will think about cleaning my desk...but I probably won't have time. It is Friday, you know: I came in late and intend to leave early. Oh, before the real world gets in a tizzie, I have had three evening meetings already this week and took work home every night.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
.

"I have worked in the private sector, and the workers there aren't any more dedicated to their jobs than they are in the public sector - in fact most the work I see done by private consultants is a pile of crap that was likely put together at the last minute (and likely copied from other studies). "

Amen! Tell me the difference between the stereotypical post office worker and the average clerk at Wal Mart. There may be more of a pasted on smile-but, real attitude, not in today's chain store hell! The only difference is that private contractors are subject to a little more "fear for their jobs," but frankly, I don't like to be chewed out by my supervisors, either. Many of the "slow periods" I do face come because the private consultants are taking forever to do THEIR jobs.

My problem is lack of focus. I have to admit the last couple weeks I do my work like this: Finish a page./ staff report-check out Cyburbia. Finish another page. Check out the Urbanphoto.org bulletin board. Finish another page. etc. And, when you are working counter and keep getting interrupted, the problem is even worse.

Admittedly, the projects I am working on now are not the most fascinating, but still.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Re: Are you fu**ing kidding me? No, I'm not...

mugbub wrote:
I'm sorry, but I cannot hold back my anger any longer. I know you're not the only one in this situation, but I'm not going to sympathize with you like the other liberals will.
Ah, I see... Only liberal minded folk can be sympathetic? And if you want to be angry, try a few of the lazy asses in federal positions... say, the I.R.S. Don't forget to leave your full name and social security number.

God almighty! You wouldn't last 2 weeks in the private sector (real world). I admire your candor, but you really exposed yourself as a stereotypical lazy ass government worker.
Beauty... I don't admire your choice of language, nor your absurd notion that only the "private sector" is the real world. I've worked both, and you know not of what you speak. And, for your edification, the "lazy ass" worker stigma often comes from "real world" nitwits who wait until the last moment to come to government agencies for things they needed weeks ago, and wonder why we can't wave a wand and have things done for them on the spot!

You've got a pile of shit to do, right? Well do it! And planners wonder why government workers are carry a stigma of laziness with them. You're living proof. The citizens of your town pay alot a fricking taxes for you to screw off all day.
No, I have TEN piles of excrement to do. And before I get those down, a half-dozen more will appear. I worked for a large engineering firm, fella, and you talk about goofing off... I know people who did nothing but shoot rubber bands around all damn day. As far as my job goes, I have to be self motivated. That takes more effort than having some boss chewing on you to get things done...

Oh, and by the way, I also have to answer the phone about a dozen times a day to answer incredibly dumb questions from the "real world" people, such as yourself, who do not posses the intelligence to open a book or webpage (not to mention the damned phone book) to find an answer for themselves.

When the fit hits the shan, I'm the guy who stays up half the night to make sure some important city business is accomplished... and hence, the people of my town who pay "alot [sic] a [sic] fricking taxes", get more than their money's worth.

But I wouldn't expect a member of the "confederacy" to understand.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
Hmm, Of course I would have JUST said to my husband this morning that one of the cool things about Cyburbia's message boards is that they are so friendly and supportive, and that even despite the inevitable diffences of opinion, people are really constructive. Thanks, Mugbub for proving me wrong.

I did my stint in consulting and hated it. The first 5 months they didn't have enough work for me to do, yet still expected me to be 98% billable. The following 7 months were miserable, as I was working on projects that had ALL gone over budget, and I had to do the crappiest half assed job to get it done quick.

I'm now extemely happy to be working for a public employer that prides itself on not making its workers miserable, paying a decent wage and allowing for family time to be a priority. In my experience Consulting is not the real world. It's hell. And if I choose to spend my day researching comp plans instead of attacking the pile of filing that needs doing for no other reason than I don't feel like filing today, so be it.

Blargh. Why did I let myself get cranky over this?
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,450
Points
54
Since the beginning of the year, I've felt as if I've been spinning my wheels. I'm getting some things out of the way, but ...

Right now, I'm about three weeks into a code enforcement sweep. (This is pretty much a "detox" for the town; get rid of EVERYTHING, and then, hopefully, preventative maintenance will be the norm.) I've been sending out about five to ten violation notices a day. Consider the amount of time it takes in the field to catalog a violation, type the letter, create a file, send out the violation via certified mail (a real PIA), and then deal with the angry property owner when they get the bad news. I've also got to go out and revisit the violations, and instruct the tow company to remove certain cars, or set up Code Enforcement Board meetings.

(I had to interrupt this message because I got two phone calls and a visitor)

Public contact -- try about 20 to 40 unscheduled incoming phone calls and visitiors a day as of late, msot scattered evenly throughout the day. Each pf those contacts lasts from about three to 15 minutes; much longer if it's an appraiser (at least two a day) or a potential property buyer performing due diligence. About a third of the calls result in an "assignment" of some sort -- someone wanting me to compile a list of something, and fax it thier way.

Meanwhile, every day, a few items get stacked on my "pile." Note the quotes. A notice about a meeting I have to attend later this month. Some assignment from the Town Manager. A file the Town Clerk found that might be relevant.

(Another resident call.)

(Town Manager wants network support.)

Right now, I'm about three days behind with returning phone calls - my voice mail box holds 40 messages, and it fills in two days, even with my retrieval of messages. I perform triage; in recent days I've had to blow off some messages. Bad customer service, I know, but I have no choice; if I responded to every call, I'd be here 60 or 80 hours a week, instead of the 50 I've been working recently. Of those 50 hours, I feel "productive" maybe 10% of the time. The rest of the time, I'm performing damage control. A lot of "productive" work is done at home, sadly, where I have solid blocks of time that will not be interrupted by calls from God-knows-who.

(Phone call -- builder wondering abot the status of their inspection. I failed 'em.)

In the 30 minutes I've been trying to get this one message out, I had four phone calls, one resident visitor, and one visit from Town staff, all wanting SOMETHING. I feel unproductive not because I'm not helping these folks out, but because long-term projects -- comprehensive plan, land development code, office organization -- are going by the wayside.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
Meanwhile, I'm feeling much better :) I got a new pile of work to get through (with some nasty deadlines attached).

Thanks to all who replied - even mugbub. If nothing else, he got me fired up a bit (and a few others too it seems).
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
28
Im having one of those blah days myself. If I have to look at this Post Office plan anymore Ill scream.

We all get the blahs from time to time, this week seems to be mine big time. Im disgusted with work, dating, laundry, parental units, the weather and lots of other stuff.

D
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,397
Points
32
PlannerGirl wrote:
Im having one of those blah days myself.
When I have those I go out and drive around looking or code violators to harass. Writing threatening letters does wonders for one's pent up aggression.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
28
Well I dont get to leave my little cube hell so Im going slowly crazy in here. Lol I know what mood Im in by my choice of music, today is Dead Can Dance :-(

D
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
29
Try preparing reports as you look out the window and see it snowing in May. Thats my day today. BLAH
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
Baby got Back!

I got to the point this week where I blocked Cyburbia at the Firewall so I could some serious work done. It worked. My citizens pay 1.3 cents per person per year to see me work. I really want to avoid the "Lazy Ass" label and I want to work my way back up to "Fat Assed" Government worker. I owe my citizens that much. Some day If I keep my sholder to the axel I'll be a "Punk Ass" Government worker - the highest level possible.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,450
Points
54
Re: Baby got Back!

El Guapo wrote:
My citizens pay 1.3 cents per person per year to see me work.
That's a bargain. Mine each pay about $30.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
The arbitrary deadline thing works, but real deadlines are better. I tend to be "too smart" to accept fake deadlines, but I found I can psyche myself up to that level of sheer panic in which most of my work gets done if I really concentrate.

I'm riding a bit of a high right now as my Toronto Maple Leafs have advanced to the next round of the NHL playoffs. YEE-HAW, bring on them 'Canes!!!!!!!!!!!!

My citizens each pay about 2 cents (Cdn.) a year for the privilege of having me oversee the planning of their transportation system.

Oh, I dream of being a "punk-ass" government worker...
 

Mary

Member
Messages
127
Points
6
I understand the frustration of interruption. There are days when I leave work wondering what if anything I got done because I spent all day on the phone, with drop ins or running people's quick please find me.... please get me.... can you send me a copy of... requests.

What I want to know is what you do when you Don't love your job. (I loved my last one but left it to follow my husband across the country) now I'd love to look for a new job but I don't know how long I'll be here so getting a new job may give me too many job changes on a resume that already has too many changes for my comfort level due to temp jobs before I landed the first real job.

My motivation tends to be the people I'm helping so when they get nasty it gets a lot harder to do the work.

By the way I've worked in the private sector too. It's it's own kind of hell and while I worked hard there as I do here I defiantely saw my share of people doing as little as possible. Looking busy as an art form. In this job I'm running out of time to even check cyburbia so I've not been able to read much of this stuff or visit of late and I fear the future looks no better. *Sigh*

Sorry bad day self pitty rant. *end of rant*
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,397
Points
32
Re: Re: Baby got Back!

Dan Tasman wrote:


That's a bargain. Mine each pay about $30.
Alas, I'm only worth $3.58 not including benefits....
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Tranplanner wrote:
My citizens each pay about 2 cents (Cdn.) a year for the privilege of having me oversee the planning of their transportation system.
That's aboot .01 cent U.S., isn't it?!

They pay over $13 each (plus bennies) for my services. Not because I'm the best money can buy, of course... It's just a small town!
 
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donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
29
Each of my "customers" pays approximately 84 cents CDN for my services.

Why is that the ones that consume all of youir time feel that this is way too much?

The other question that is coming out of this sidetrack is why are American employers/municipalities paying so much more per capita for planning services then Canadian employers?
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,078
Points
33
A few comments:

"liberals" - Perhaps you want to check out a few of the other posts. From what I've seen most planners are gun owning libertarians or conservatives.

private sector work - We use a dedicated and talented planning consultant that I hold in high regard. Still, I often catch things he/they have missed. None of us is perfect. At the same time, I have worked with other consultants that give me reason to be very critical of the industry. "Search and replace" is not the way to write a village master plan, yet it is really obvious that some consultants do this. I can point to a string of communities where the plans are nearly identical except for the maps and the community name. (Black Earth Creek runs through the Village of Black Earth. Mazomanie Creek does not run through the Village of Mazomanie, Black Earth Creek does.)

El Guapo - missed you!

Yeah, I've had a motivation problem for a while. I set out to accomplish a number of things when I first came here, and for the most part, I have done it. Now I am searching for new projects to sink my teeth into, but it takes energy, I have less time because of increased work loads, meetings fill up my days and too many evenings, and I'm beginning to feel like I need more of a social life than I've been getting lately.

$4.22 per person, not including benefits. Our whole organization costs $10.65 per person.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
donk wrote:
The other question that is coming out of this sidetrack is why are American employers/municipalities paying so much more per capita for planning services then Canadian employers?
I don't think it's a U.S. vs. Canada thing, I think it's more of a small town/large City thing. After all, El Guapo is the cheapest amongst us so far :), not taking into account the exchange rate.

I seem to remember seeing somewhere the overall per capita cost figures for City Planning in Toronto. It wasn't a whole heck of a lot. The Urban Development Services department as a whole actually makes money for the City through permit., licensing, and application fees.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,868
Points
38
I cost my Town roughly $1.67 per person/per year...lower than I thought I'd be.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
Costs

I'm cheap. 70 cents per year, not including benies (which are generous) :). Maybe 90 cents with benies.
 

mugbub

BANNED
Messages
67
Points
4
Better work ethic needed

So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.

Think of the person who shovels shit for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work. There's alot of bitching about "planner's salaries," but in reality you earn what you're worth.

Shut your whining mouths, turn off the internet for 8 hours and get something done. We need to try a blue collar work ethic- none of us are above that. No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time. Play on cyburbia on your own time because you are on 1 cent (or whatever you town is) of each citizen's time when you're at work.

There's a term in the real world called "time theft." If you play on the web all day then you are stealing the time your employer pays you to do work. I know many of you agree with all that I'm saying.
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,397
Points
32
Re: Better work ethic needed

mugbub wrote:
So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.
I don't really think anyone here has to justify anything. Who's time are you on when you post bub? Like someone pointed out before, if we counted night meetings and other extra stuff we would all be making about $6.00 an hour. I think that the cost per citizen shows what a great deal our people get. If it wasn't for us, they would have to hire some money grubbing consultant from the private sector to do it. (sorry BTurk) I wonder why cities do not privatize planning services? It is because, even a lazy as you think we are, we give our citizens the best deal.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
mugbub wrote:
So (trying to justify laziness) several of you did a calculation to see how much you cost per citizen. That's really not the point.
The actual point sailed over your head the first time, and hasn't really made a return trip for you to make a second attempt. Let me try and enlighten you. It was about SELF MOTIVATION.

mugbub wrote:
Think of the person who shovels **** for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work. There's alot of bitching about "planner's salaries," but in reality you earn what you're worth.
Thanks! I make a good salary for the area, and I am worth it! And here's another clue for you... a college education is only worth the person who was educated. I know PhD's who are so clueless they can't even hold a job.

mugbub wrote:
Shut your whining mouths, turn off the internet for 8 hours and get something done. We need to try a blue collar work ethic- none of us are above that.
Duck! Here comes clue #3! If I turn off the internet, I become much less productive, and cost the city a fortune in monies for trips, phone calls, and research that is *already done* and there for the taking. Oh, and if I just turn it off for 8 hours, can I still have it on for the other 2 hours of my normal 10 hour day?

mugbub wrote:
No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time. Play on cyburbia on your own time because you are on 1 cent (or whatever you town is) of each citizen's time when you're at work.
Oh yeah, we're all automatons... And, of course, no "blue collar" folks ever goof off at work... And, also, none of us ever go over and above our duty calls to get the job done... Add clue #4 to the bag, that being most of us don't work the 8 to 5 routine, and actually do more work than most of your "**** shovelers".

mugbub wrote:
There's a term in the real world called "time theft." If you play on the web all day then you are stealing the time your employer pays you to do work. I know many of you agree with all that I'm saying.
There is also a term called "salaried personnel". I'm paid to achieve particular goals using my knowledge and expertise. Do you know *why* I don't punch a clock, mullethead? Because if they timed my 100%, no playing around, no posting to the internet job, they would have weeks of paying me 20 or 30 hours of overtime.

I believe they'd prefer I post from time to time...

Here's a nice example for you!

I just got a phone call from a state agency informing me that the city had been approved for an $80 thousand dollar grant.

I wrote that grant the second week I was employed here, and found it under a stack of papers left on the desk by my predecessor. The due date was in seven days.... I spent over 80 hours (including the week-end), in addition to my "normal" work, making sure it was completed. Hell, I even drove the packet 75 miles to turn it in.

I guess the folks in my town got a pretty good deal for that week, huh?
 
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el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
Group Therapy

I detect self esteem issues, mudbug. Work through the pain. No one in the group is going to judge you. Well, I won't anyway.

Here is a big HUG ((((((((mudbug))))))))
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,078
Points
33
Re: Better work ethic needed

We need to try a blue collar work ethic - none of us are above that. No matter how bad it sucks, from the moment you get to work to the moment you leave, you should work 100% of the time.
I only wish I could come in at 8:00, take a fifteen minute break in the morning, a half hour lunch, and leave at 4:30. More often I am here before 8, work through lunch, stay until five and then return at 6 or 7 for a meeting that may go on until midnight. By the end of the day today (Wednesday) I had already put in 31 hours this week. If I stop three or four times a day to post, what does that mean, the citizens only get 50 hours of work for the forty I am paid for?

I know several planners without college degrees. I also know people with advanced degrees whose work involves physical labor. Don't try telling me we are prima donnas who think we are better than others or don't think we should have to work.

Like most of us, I worked physical labor and retail, and spent eight years in the Army to pay for my education and earn the job I now have. Guess what, the people in those jobs often complained about the work, griped about the pay, or sometimes got bored. What's more, they might stretch a fifteen minute break to twenty or occassionally put in a less productive day. It's normal. Deal.

It sounds like you have some ax to grind. Whatever your problem, think about it before you go off insulting people.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
WHEN I NEED GUIDANCE...

...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do? Try it mudbug, it will help you center and radiate good vibes to those darn government employees.
 

Bullwinkle

Cyburbian
Messages
176
Points
7
My citizens pay about $17.33 per person per year. The whole department (me, a building inspector, and a grant writer/asst. planner) costs about $73.43/person/year. But, we brought in over $580,000 in grants in the past year! A $400,000 CDBG award really bumps up the numbers.
 

mike gurnee

Cyburbian
Messages
3,066
Points
30
I am taking a vacation day, cleaning house for HS graduation. While shampooing, mopping, etc.--my mind wonders...to a particular problem I have at work. I have an afternoon meeting, but will still charge the day to vacation. Sure wish I had a job where I could put in 100% while at the office with a blue collar work ethic.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Re: WHEN I NEED GUIDANCE...

El Guapo wrote:
...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do?
So you won't be going out on any dates this week-end?

(Sorry Dan, it was a hanging curve left way up in the strike zone...)

K
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
El Guapo wrote:
...I ask myself, What Would Dan Tasman Do?
Must...not...make...kitten...killing...comment.

See what you started Mastiff?

mugbub wrote:
Think of the person who shovels **** for a living, cuts grass, or does any other related blue collar job. Just because you whiners went to college you are not entitled to screw around at work.
I don't know about you, but I find writing a Planning Report a much different task than mowing the grass. Instead of just turning on the lawn mower and cutting 'til the lawn is done, I have to analysis, think, and express thoughts in a (largely) coherent manner. Sometimes when I get stuck, the best thing to do is exercise my head a bit, and if that means surfing on over to Cyburbia for a few minutes, then so be it.

BTW - I'm union, so I get to combine blue-collar laziness with white-collar laziness. The best of both worlds!
 
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Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Re: Re: WHEN I NEED GUIDANCE...

Tranplanner wrote:
See what you started Mastiff?
Me?! How did I start it? It was the Mexican Madman, and you know it!

To tell you the truth, I think the "Guap" has quite a following these days. In fact, women in the planning field have been seen headed to, nay... rushing to... the local porn shops for the latest item fashioned after the Super Moderator!
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
Frito Bandito

I should know better - I just spewed coffee all over my meeting agenda for this morning. Thanks Mastiff. It was actually nice to start friday morning with a belly laugh.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
Anytime!

And it was probably well worth the $.19 my citizens paid for me to post it, eh? ;)
 
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