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jordanb - marked man? discuss
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Planderella
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OT:
At least Muggie and APM were intelligent.......
At least Muggie and APM were intelligent.......
donk
Cyburbian
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[OT]
As the person who originally threw out the idea of troll, here is my response.
It is not so much that you questioned a By-law, I know I do every day at least once, it is the manner in which you questioned it.
Most of here are professionals (not that should make too much of a difference) who look at this place as a place to discuss, critique ideas and ask for help in a polite manner. If I wanted to be attacked for the stuff I administer I have a half dozen messages sitting on my desk to return.
It would be similar to as if after reading "silicone snake oil" I started posting to IT groups and espousing the ideals of a single critic as if they where a universal truth. I doubt I'd be welcome there very long.
As for baiting people about religion and such, that is against one of the rules of the group.
Hope that clears things up, at least you know my point of view.
[/OT]
As the person who originally threw out the idea of troll, here is my response.
It is not so much that you questioned a By-law, I know I do every day at least once, it is the manner in which you questioned it.
Most of here are professionals (not that should make too much of a difference) who look at this place as a place to discuss, critique ideas and ask for help in a polite manner. If I wanted to be attacked for the stuff I administer I have a half dozen messages sitting on my desk to return.
It would be similar to as if after reading "silicone snake oil" I started posting to IT groups and espousing the ideals of a single critic as if they where a universal truth. I doubt I'd be welcome there very long.
As for baiting people about religion and such, that is against one of the rules of the group.
Hope that clears things up, at least you know my point of view.
[/OT]
Chet
Cyburbian Emeritus
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And to add to donk's insight as to your status, jordanb:
We love spirited debate. Run back thoughn the last few months since GW2 was imminent. EG and Skeleton had great ongoing discussions. Often, I didnt agree with either of them, but guess what, the users ofthis forum respect both of them for intelligently supporting their positions. You haven't done that. Every time someone challenges one of your statements, you back off in an Alicia Silverstone "what EVER" manner. So, an 18 year old south american with a yearn for our common passion can better an twenty-something UIC grunt. Now do you get it, or does Habenero have to rub your nose in poop again?
Toodles,
Chet
We love spirited debate. Run back thoughn the last few months since GW2 was imminent. EG and Skeleton had great ongoing discussions. Often, I didnt agree with either of them, but guess what, the users ofthis forum respect both of them for intelligently supporting their positions. You haven't done that. Every time someone challenges one of your statements, you back off in an Alicia Silverstone "what EVER" manner. So, an 18 year old south american with a yearn for our common passion can better an twenty-something UIC grunt. Now do you get it, or does Habenero have to rub your nose in poop again?
Toodles,
Chet
Repo Man
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It seems like most of this stems from the "Define "primary" vs "accessory" in your city" thread. I am willing to give JordanB the benefit of the doubt on that one. It seems from his introduction, he doesn't have much experience with municipal planning. A lot of people may say "sure, what is the big deal about a daycare in a residential" or "seperating land uses is silly" but anyone who has spent 1 week working for a city would probably see it differently. When people invest $200-300,000 in a home in a district that is strictly residential, they have every right to be pissed off that some lady is skirting zoning laws to run a business in that district. They bought the home with the assumption that it was all residential. If people wanted to live in a mixed use area, they wouold buy a house or a condo in an area that permits mixed use.
My preference by far is mixed use, thus I chose to live 1 block from a grocery store, about 10 restaurants, and a bunch of stores. Jordanb seems to have been brainwashed by Jane Jacobs and the new urbanist movement ( a movement plagued by the "I know what's best for you" crowd). While I personally like mixed use areas as a municipal planner, I also realize that for a large segment of the population, the thought of living next to a bagel shop or a day care is unfathomable. Those people pay taxes (and my salary) too, so as a public employee, planners have to acommodate them too.
...with that being said, I say we give him another chance. He has contributed in non-trolling ways to several threads. Although I will admit that I have had 4 Guinness and a shot of Jamesons this evening, and I am friends with the aformentioned APM, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
A bit of advice jordanb: when you disagree with something, like Euclidian Zoning for example, don't attack the person who is supporting it or other posters, attack the problems you see stemming from euclidian zoning, offer solutions, etc. Don't snap back with things like "So now all of you planners who can't see past one use pods despite everything you were taught in planning school are up in arms because she's "flaunting" your precious zoning laws."
My preference by far is mixed use, thus I chose to live 1 block from a grocery store, about 10 restaurants, and a bunch of stores. Jordanb seems to have been brainwashed by Jane Jacobs and the new urbanist movement ( a movement plagued by the "I know what's best for you" crowd). While I personally like mixed use areas as a municipal planner, I also realize that for a large segment of the population, the thought of living next to a bagel shop or a day care is unfathomable. Those people pay taxes (and my salary) too, so as a public employee, planners have to acommodate them too.
...with that being said, I say we give him another chance. He has contributed in non-trolling ways to several threads. Although I will admit that I have had 4 Guinness and a shot of Jamesons this evening, and I am friends with the aformentioned APM, so take my comments with a grain of salt.
A bit of advice jordanb: when you disagree with something, like Euclidian Zoning for example, don't attack the person who is supporting it or other posters, attack the problems you see stemming from euclidian zoning, offer solutions, etc. Don't snap back with things like "So now all of you planners who can't see past one use pods despite everything you were taught in planning school are up in arms because she's "flaunting" your precious zoning laws."
PlannerGirl
Cyburbian Plus
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Word to the wise, any line that starts off with "you all..." or "you people..." is going to get folks hackles up.
If you have a point to make fantastic but think about how you word it, there is not a thing wrong with bucking trends or ideas, or being the rep for a minority thought (G*d knows I am a GREAT deal) but realize your not going to get any friends on this list or brownie points with the mods for getting folks all in a huff.
*takes off her mod hat and puts back on the leather top hat*
If you have a point to make fantastic but think about how you word it, there is not a thing wrong with bucking trends or ideas, or being the rep for a minority thought (G*d knows I am a GREAT deal) but realize your not going to get any friends on this list or brownie points with the mods for getting folks all in a huff.
*takes off her mod hat and puts back on the leather top hat*
Greenescapist
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I agree with Repo Man. If he wants to participate in discussions here, he should not be a pariah. This could be just another example of how people don't quite understand how they can come across in writing. Sometimes it's so hard to tell. I've definitely offended a few people over the years with poorly nuanced emails and I'm not a bad guy.
Greenescapist
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OK, I think I just changed my mind after reading the "deathmatch" thread. Jordanb just doesn't get it and doesn't seem to be able to be courteous. I hope Habanero opens up a fresh can on him. 
jordanb
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It seems people are angry that I ended my involvement in the thread, "slinking away" was the phrase used, I think. I've been around the internet enough to be completly sick of never-ending flamewars. People make their point in the first few posts and it then becomes a game of prairie dogs.
I'm on a newsgroup at the moment that has a thread (flamewar) started over a month ago on it that's about to top 500 messages. The participents are like two prize fighters in the hundredth round leaning against eachother for support. Of course, since about the twentieth post it's just been a rehash of the same argument over and over again. I've therefore found it prudent to make my point and then end my involvement. If the other person wants the last word, that's great, they can have it, but a flamewar takes two and I don't like to be one of them.
It goes without saying that I am horribly sick of this whole buisness and I don't think I have anything else to say about it.
I'm on a newsgroup at the moment that has a thread (flamewar) started over a month ago on it that's about to top 500 messages. The participents are like two prize fighters in the hundredth round leaning against eachother for support. Of course, since about the twentieth post it's just been a rehash of the same argument over and over again. I've therefore found it prudent to make my point and then end my involvement. If the other person wants the last word, that's great, they can have it, but a flamewar takes two and I don't like to be one of them.
It goes without saying that I am horribly sick of this whole buisness and I don't think I have anything else to say about it.
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jordanb,
Your "the internet" link is misguided, ignorant, and hurtful. Don't ever put up anything like that again.
Administrators Edit: I removed the link. Jordanb, thats over the line and a quick way to get banned.
Chet
Your "the internet" link is misguided, ignorant, and hurtful. Don't ever put up anything like that again.
Administrators Edit: I removed the link. Jordanb, thats over the line and a quick way to get banned.
Chet
Tranplanner
maudit anglais
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Okay folks, move along...nothing to see here...move along...
Thread closed.
Thread closed.
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