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Left, right or ...

Generally, are you a liberal or conservative?

  • Radical progressive ("Everything America does is wrong!")

    Votes: 5 9.3%
  • Staunch liberal ("Michael Moore for President!")

    Votes: 6 11.1%
  • Good Democrat ("I support my local NPR station!")

    Votes: 15 27.8%
  • Left leaning ("I like the idea of national health care, but ...")

    Votes: 11 20.4%
  • MIddle of the road, like those yellow lines.

    Votes: 4 7.4%
  • Right leaning ("I've been watching a lot of Fox News Channel lately. E.D. Donahey -- hubba hubba!")

    Votes: 2 3.7%
  • Good Republican ("I voted for Dub, but I don't think liberals are evil.")

    Votes: 5 9.3%
  • Staunch conservative ("Dittos! Dittos! Whatever you say, Rush!")

    Votes: 5 9.3%
  • Arch-conservative ("Colorado Springs is a town filled with commies!")

    Votes: 1 1.9%

  • Total voters
    54
  • Poll closed .

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
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... as Dan, just out of sheer curiosity, attempts to figure out which way the board as a whole leans -- Rush or NPR?
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
there must be a label for me somewhere

Im middle of the road with a propensity to veer hard left or right. I guess that is part of my oppositional nature.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
Re: there must be a label for me somewhere

Jen wrote:
Im middle of the road with a propensity to veer hard left or right. I guess that is part of my oppositional nature.
Pragmatist. That's how I classify myself -- typically liberal, maybe even bleeding heart, but occasionally finding myself saying "you know, they've got a point" with Rush Limbaugh and the like. William F. Buckley might be a good role model ...
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
5,902
Points
31
I'd say good Republican with a tendency towards the middle of the road. I worked a lot with people from our state environmental department, and they, too, were pretty conservative. Many kept Rush on the radio. I would secretly smile whenever the rest of my conservative family classified us "environmentalists" as a bunch of liberals!
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Tough Question

Most people that know me would say I was near Attila the Hun on the political spectrum. But yet, I am supping coffee right now from my Smoky Hills Public Television mug that was given to me in return for my support of PBS. Which I support even though I know that the majority of the programs and staff there hold people like me in distain. I support it because it is often the only intelligent material on television. On the other hand I don’t believe the government should support them. They are already running commercials. Let them go private and thrive or die.

I guess when you get down to it I hold a variety of views most are way to the right. Some would scare our liberal friends away, so I’ll keep those to myself.
 
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I went with Good Democrat although I am a huge Michael Moore fan. In my Economic Geography class in undergrad our prof had us do a paper on Roger and Me, so I have easily seen that movie at least 15 times. And does anyone remember TV nation? For Valentine's day he did a special where he took the Michigan Militia to a county fair to ride the attractions in the spirit of peace, love and understanding. the Militia guys were really good sports about it, and it made for great television. Man, I loved that show.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
As a Canadian, I think I automatically start off on the left. Universal health-care makes sense to me - especially after seeing something like "John Q".

A lot of my other ideas though tend to be on the right side of the spectrum though - which is why I put "middle of the road".
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
My favorite Simpsons line

[ the scene is a board meeting ] "We need something that says we're Republican and Gay"

[ in floats Maggie Simpon's pink elephant balloon ]

"well that's a bit obvious..."
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,406
Points
32
I guess I lean to the left to varying degrees, but don't even try to take away my guns!
 
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Who lives in a pineapple under the sea?

Tex - as - Plan - ner!

(Sorry, I was out sick last week and watched WAY too much SpongeBob)
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
But 'saurus.... Americans can do no wrong!

And what about the internet? It was invented by an American Vice President no less!

What about the aqueducts? Americans invented this ingeneous technology.

And what about the "American Dream" ? More people own Ford Escorts than any other car on the planet!

:)
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
Why is it that Canada is getting mentioned around here so much? A lot of our advantages come from being located so close to the U.S. (physically and ideologically). You give us protection, economic growth, etc. We give you Mike Myers and Jim Carrey. You can thank us later.

Hey - I drive a Ford Escort! ('96 LX 2-door Hatchback - a poor planner's sports car).
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
Ford Escorts-

Yeah, well my Ford Escort.. the beat up '93.. was a hand-me-down from my Director of Planning Mom.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,890
Points
26
Re: My favorite Simpsons line

bturk wrote:
[ the scene is a board meeting ] "We need something that says we're Republican and Gay"

[ in floats Maggie Simpon's pink elephant balloon ]

"well that's a bit obvious..."
" a little on the nose don't you think?"

A gay president in 2084?

we're realistic.
 

planasaurus

Cyburbian
Messages
215
Points
9
Re: Saurus

El Guapo wrote:
Really?
Well, perhaps I was overreacting a little. I like America, but I do not agree with most of our foreign policy, and I feel like we have been at war, either overtly or covertly, since WWII; and I feel like American greed is to blame for much of the trouble in the world.

So, I should change my last statement to say "mostly everything that America does in regards to foreign policy is wrong, but most other things are OK."
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
Passing over a double yellow lI

El Guapo wrote:
My Ford Escort was made in MEXICO! NAFTA rules!
My 2001VW Beetle was made in Mexico!

Planasaurus wrote:
and I feel like we have been at war, either overtly or covertly, since WWII; and I feel like American greed is to blame for much of the trouble in the world.
This is largely true,and while overall our intentions have been good. I think the future of America is out of the hands of ordinary americans...

I really really hope that America does not open fire on Iraq. We will be in a heap o lot of shit right here at home.

And I dont believe that the only footprint caused by drilling in the ArticNationalWildlifeRefuge would be less than 2000 acres, that area would have to be so secure as to lead into all sorts of potential twists and turns..

Im so sick of the abortion industry, and the porno industry. IMO both are a complete waste of 'life energy" and should be scaled way back.
 
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el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Dittos

Jen,
I agree with you. We are wasting so much on so little of consequence. Is anyone else out there tired of having to pretend that the person speaking to you is not feeding you a line of crap? It is now no big deal to be caught in a lie. It is now almost bad manners to demand people tell you the truth. Thanks Bill and Hill and Enron and others. They are not totally responsible, but they will be remembered as the catalyst. When things jumped the shark as one poster puts it.

I'm so tired of being lied too and marketed too. If they could legally tattoo Pepsi to the inside of my eyeballs they would. The NEA and School Board want my child’s school to have sponsors for everything. English Composition as presented by Office Depot. Stores assume all their customers are criminals while they are buying congressmen. My government expects me to trust them, but they will screw you in heartbeat. There are no limits anymore.

I guess this is old fashioned rant, but Jen you moved me with your statement.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,890
Points
26
Re: Dittos

El Guapo wrote:
Jen,
I agree with you. We are wasting so much on so little of consequence. Is anyone else out there tired of having to pretend that the person speaking to you is not feeding you a line of crap? It is now no big deal to be caught in a lie. It is now almost bad manners to demand people tell you the truth. Thanks Bill and Hill and Enron and others. They are not totally responsible, but they will be remembered as the catalyst. When things jumped the shark as one poster puts it.

I'm so tired of being lied too and marketed too. If they could legally tattoo Pepsi to the inside of my eyeballs they would. The NEA and School Board want my child’s school to have sponsors for everything. English Composition as presented by Office Depot. Stores assume all their customers are criminals while they are buying congressmen. My government expects me to trust them, but they will screw you in heartbeat. There are no limits anymore.

I guess this is old fashioned rant, but Jen you moved me with your statement.
I was having a discussion along these lines with my cousin. the problem is capitalism. All of societies problems are rooted in greed. All of it. Not enough people work for everyone, and too many people work for themselves. The ultimate solution to most of society's problems is education. fair, equal education for all income brackets, races, etc. THEN, in about 20 years, you start to the results. The gov, needs to get honest and actually work for what benefits everyone, not just the vocal (and/or powerful) minority.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
I disagree...

Its not capitalism that is the problem. The anything goes: I can't be judgmental or people won't like me paradigm - there is the root problem. The corporate world is smart. They grabbed on to that paradigm also. They learned from the freaks and hippies of the 60's that pushing the envelope is something you can get away with and good business if you are marketing to the unwashed masses. I call it Madonna Marketing.

I believe in the market more than I do the ravings of Marx or Engles. It is self control, a sense of responsibility and an agreed upon set of manners that are missing from society. I know this is a wild idea, but I believe you can have capitalism AND good manners.

Wishing capitalism away is like wishing physics away.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,890
Points
26
Re: I disagree...

El Guapo wrote:
I believe in the market more than I do the ravings of Marx or Engles. It is self control, a sense of responsibility and an agreed upon set of manners that are missing from society. I know this is a wild idea, but I believe you can have capitalism AND good manners.

Wishing capitalism away is like wishing physics away.
I'm not saying that Marx was completly correct. I'm saying almost exactly what you are. If people would get the attitude change, treat people fairly, then our problems disappear. And yes, the way capitalism in this country is structured, it doesn't respect anyone. It tramples small business, it doesn't pay it's low-skill employees fairly, etc. The attitude change needs to happen everywhere. And one place it needs to change is the way the country looks at the school system. You don't know who jealous I was of studnets from the 'rich districts' when i went to college. My school didn't have the internet, they did, we had about 15 computers for 1000 students. We had 2 AP classes, they had multi-tudes. They tons of sports and clubs, we had almost all of ours cut because of budget cuts. I could go on. I was a smart student and felt cheated from a better education because i lived in a poorer district. I could have learned so much more and placed myself into higher classes at college and not have to go through all the basic crap again.

On the entrance exam, i tested out of them, BUT because my school didn't offer the particualr class as an AP class, i didn't have the pre-requisite to take the higher class.
 

Mary

Member
Messages
127
Points
6
I agree that many problems are based on attitude and greed. I had one boss who assured me that if I made enough money I'd love the job. *Huh????* I just don't get it. I also had another boss who before a meeting, knowing that the person we were meeting with had recommended me to him for the job, proceeded to tell me how he planned to work the meeting so that he'd get commissioned to do extra work and then once the firm had the job we'd charge for it latter.

These attitudes are way too common but the other thing that causes problems is that there is so much to deal with that people as a whole frequently ignore anything that doesn't negatively effect their own lives. So privacy, civil liberties, and 100 other valuable things are being left behind because no one can keep track of it all and most people would rather ignore unpleasant things.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
El Guapo's comments remind me of Allan Bloom's book published about 1990: "The Closing of the American Mind." In it, Bloom makes the very salient argument that the teachings of the left have led to an intolerance of thought and corruption of any basic moral code. To fit it into a nutshell:
1. The prevailing doctrine of the left is "moral/cultural relativity," where what is right for one is not necessarily right for another.
2. The only truth is that there is no truth.
3. The left, in promoting this doctrine, has eroded the basic moral code which has eveolved over thousands of years of human progress.
4. Because we can't say one idea is better than another, what is right or what is wrong, we must treat all opinion equally.
5. The problem? In the absence of good or evil (Nietsche, anyone?), Mother Theresa and Hitler must be viewed as moral equals.

My summary has several omissions, but the basic idea is that right and wrong are not simply legal concepts, but do exist independent of the law, with a philosophical or religious founding. I've got to agree that as a society, we are no longer brought up to believe this, but instead that right and wrong is relative to each individual.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,890
Points
26
this is still cyburbia?

what a turn this thread is taking.

Call it instinct? Every sane human being has some sort of idea what is right and wrong. What you want to believe is right and wrong is where philosphy comes into play.

maybe it's the fact that in the past, it seems, religion played a larger role in peoples lives. If you screwed up here, you had to answer to God. Now, religion hardley plays a role. It's live for today, anything goes. You can do what you want, there are no long term consequences. Which is why you can lie, cheat, steal, kill, destroy you morals, step on others to your advantage, and you'll be fine.

maybe i vaguely remember something for catholic school, but satan (greater evil) wants you to do it for yourself. God (greater good) wants you to do it for others.

I apply this as a parent. Do i buy myself a new stereo, or do i buy my son a power wheels. I'd rather him have the power wheels.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
"What you want to believe is right and wrong is where philosphy comes into play. " -- That is precisely the problem. Right or wrong is not what any individual may want it to be. Whether in religion or philosophy, the constant has been a belief in "the Truth." It was an old idea when Socrates discussed it. It is present in the Persian and Assyrian religious beliefs that are the basis of Jewish, Christian and Islamic faiths. It is found in the United State's founder's belief in "Nature and Naure's God." As Fox Moulder would say, "The truth is out there."

Only now, many peple would prefer to believe that it is not. With this justification, is anything they do truly wrong? And if it isn't wrong, so then why not do it. I'll grant, of course, that in the past the idea of a Universal Truth did not keep people from doing wrong. Perhaps it made them feel guilty.
 

Linden Smith

Cyburbian
Messages
141
Points
6
I come to Cyburbia pretty much daily, and while I don't post as much as I used to, I still think it is the best site for interactive discussion on current planning issues.

That said, viewing the discussion boards is getting to be like turning on AM radio, I'm left wondering where all these freaks came from. If you were a TRUE ditto head, you'd be in real estate and mailing death threats to people like us.

Some of these subjects need to be under planning polemics, or Perry's Corner, or some recess of lucianne.com. Clinton bashing, bush bashing, and abortion debate are not current planning issues.

Dan, time to bring Mike Morin back.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
Linden Smith wrote:
Some of these subjects need to be under planning polemics, or Perry's Corner, or some recess of lucianne.com. Clinton bashing, bush bashing, and abortion debate are not current planning issues.
Linden! I was wondering what happened to ya'? Thanks for the kind words, and ... hey, want to moderate a forum?

The political discussions ... well, this is the FAC, which is "general chatter, great thoughts, mindless rambling, and frank exchanges of views on less-than-cosmic topics." This is Cyburbia's water cooler, coffee machine area, bar around the corner from City Hall ... you get the idea. Topics here don't have to be planning-related.

Planning Polemic .... nobody was using it, unfortunately, so I moved the messages, and deleted that forum. Polemic was intended to be a more serious "Planning Peeves," but polemic could also be appropriate in other forums. "Planning Peeves" should be for planning-specific peeves, and not general debate about Republicans v Democrats, Ford v Chevy, and so on.

Although I'm a left-leaning liberal, I consider myself true to the definition of the word -- open-minded to considering and studying other points of view, whether they come from the left or the right. Right-leaning planners are in the minority, but their presence shouldn't be seen as offensive.

Dan, time to bring Mike Morin back.
Okay ... for a one-time appearance ...
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Oh my lack of god! You don't think I'm a ditto-head, do you? I mean, I voted for Nader!
 
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Go greens! Also voted Nader. I would love to see stats on how many of Ralph's votes were from planners.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Surprise - I voted for W.

I wanted to vote for McCain, but the primary system is a harsh mistress. The sticker is still on my car. I gave money to his campaign - now I can't get off the damn mailing/calling lists. Death to Telemarketers! - Even ones working for conservatives!

Dan, Please check your records to see if that is Cyburbia's first death/terroristic threat.

And, my eternal thanks to you Naderites. You gave it to W. Well, you and an enlightened judiciary.
 
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Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
I wanna be a campaign worker!

In the primary i was a Bush spoiler, I voted for Mccain!

Then I tried to trade votes via internet to show support to the Greens, but knew only Gore could defeat the bushies.

Some elderly friends we know in Broward and Palm Beach in FLa did get screwed by ballot - pinheads!
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Someone explain the logic behind this to me...

...let's say I'm a minority voter in a democratically controlled (election officers included) district in Florida and I screw up my ballot and it is not counted because of the rules in effect at the time.

How is that Bush's fault and why is it a racist act as has been alledged?

(I don't cringe every time someone screams racism anymore. Sometimes it just seems that it is an argument of the weak-minded. (Required Disclaimer - I know racism exists. I'm not discounting its existence. Jesse, Maxine, Pat and Cynthia prove it every day.))

Just curious?
 
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The only reason I voted for Ralph is that I knew my state was going to go to Al anyway. If I had thought that he would be in trouble, I would have had to vote dem.

However, I did vote for McCain in the Republican primary, which was held when we still lived in South Carolina. He was the more tolerable of the two repubs, if we had to have a repub pres.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Seems we think the same. I voted McCain, but then faced a choice between two really undesirable candidates. If they were all I had to choose from, I probably would have gone for Bush. I would certainly regret that now.

Nader is an interesting guy. I may not agree with all of his views, but he is honest - probably the only honest politician I can think of right now. I heard him lie once, when asked if he thought he could win. He figited and squeaked out a 'yes,' but you could tell he didn't. A typical politician can tell you any lie, regardless how difficult. To Ralph, it was a new experience.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
Messages
688
Points
20
My eyes and ears are bleeding...

Can we go back to the reference about porn??

Moving on, I guess...I can remember who I voted for. That's sometimes a problem when you vote often.

Why does the truth need to be sugar coated in today's society? If someone has an ugly kid, why can't we just tell them? After the last White House administration, what is the truth?

As for Nader...he's akin to Perot. Perot gave two elections to the Democrats by dividing the Republican vote. Nader did it to the Dems in the last election. Everybody screws everybody. God Bless America.

The real question about policitics is: Do you believe in more government or less government? That will help you truly decide what side of the fence you are on.

Can anyone tell me who I voted for? The ballot confused me...
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Oh Prudence....

At least *most* of us can say we voted in the community we lived in at the time of the election... How 'bout you?
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
"Do you believe in more government or less government? "

Right now, maybe the question is: "Do you believe in government?"
 
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3,690
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27
More and Less

More government to protect we the common folk from corporations who want to pollute our environment, engage in unfair business practices, etc etc.

Less government involved in things that happen below women's belly buttons (not talking about orthoscopic knee surgery), and what gender other people are sleeping with.
 

gkmo62u

Cyburbian
Messages
1,046
Points
24
First time here. You guys are remarkable. I am amazed that 7 or 19 consider themselves conservative. I have been in the profession 7 years now and can count on one hand collegues who are republican or conservative.

I believe in the free market, that capitalism works, that a rising tide lifts all boats, that America is usually right; I pick cops over protesters, property rights over smart growth.

That we are the world leader because of our pioneer, manifest destiny roots. We're smart, smarter than most.

i voted for bush, bush, clinton bush (i did not think Bob Dole was a real option. I usually vote with my checkbook.

Oh, and I am in real estate and do not send threatening letters, because, above all, I am a planner who believes in the process.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Diitos

Welcome gkmo62u,
Glad to have you aboard. Spread some more of that cheerful conservative rhetoric!
El Guapo


Dan, has Cyburbia morphed in to a refuge for conservative planners, or is it the case that when one comes out of the closet that lets the others know they are not alone?
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
Re: Diitos

El Guapo wrote:
Dan, has Cyburbia morphed in to a refuge for conservative planners, or is it the case that when one comes out of the closet that lets the others know they are not alone?
I'll say it's the latter. I don't know of any e-mail lists that are circulating that read "psst ... if you're a conservative planner, you can meet here," but rather that the righties are outing themselves. I find that conservatives tend to be more vocal about their politics than liberals, so it's easy to perceive that conservative thought is dominant in a certain marketplace of ideas, even if it's not the majority viewpoint.

I know this might recall an earlier thread, but I think that certain political ideologies dominate in different specialties of the planning profession. In grad school, for instance, the economic development geeks were mostly conservative; the urban community development students were largely liberal, if not leftist progressive. Current and comp planners generally lean towards the left; transportation planners generally to the right.

I'm good friends with a ... get this ... a libertarian planner.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
The spectrum

A liberatarian is just a conservative who trusts his fellow man way too much! He'll get screwed eventually and want to hire the cops back.
 
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