• Ongoing coronavirus / COVID-19 discussion: how is the pandemic affecting your community, workplace, and wellness? 🦠

    Working from home? So are we. Come join us! Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, planning adjacent topics, and whatever else comes to mind. No ads, no spam, no social distancing.

More prison images from Iraq dribble out

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,699
Points
69
from ABC News:

May 19, 2004— ABCNEWS has obtained two new photos taken at the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq showing Spc. Charles Graner and Spc. Sabrina Harman posing over the body of a detainee who was allegedly beaten to death by CIA or civilian interrogators in the prison's showers. The detainee's name was Manadel al-Jamadi.

According to testimony from Spc. Jason Kenner, obtained by ABCNEWS, the man was brought to the prison by U.S. Navy SEALs in good health. Kenner said he saw extensive bruising on the detainee's body when he was brought out of the showers, dead.

Kenner says the body was packed in ice during a "battle" between CIA and military interrogators over who should dispose of the body.


Great. A few new images every week.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
grrrrrr no respect for the dead or themselves I see.

Im truly ashamed of actions by my own nations military. My father, my fathers father, my mothers father, their fathers all served in the military. Mostly as Warrent officers (meaning they EARNED IT not got it with a degree) I have a high respect for our nations military but this...this is truly painful.

Im down right ashamed
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,713
Points
24
Get all of the damn pictures out and let it be done for christs sake. Defeat by 3 pictures a week is freaking stupid! |-)
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Duke Of Dystopia said:
Get all of the damn pictures out and let it be done for christs sake. Defeat by 3 pictures a week is freaking stupid! |-)
I hear that. Just get them all out there. I think its a conspiracy by the media or whoever has these photos to keep showing them ever so often in order to keep tarnishing our military's image over there.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
Rumpy Tunanator said:
I hear that. Just get them all out there. I think its a conspiracy by the media or whoever has these photos to keep showing them ever so often in order to keep tarnishing our military's image over there.
I don't think you can blame the media. I'm betting they're releasing the pics as soon as they get them and vet them.

The media is so competitive, they fight with each other to get the story out, without much thought on the implications of getting it out. ABC News execs aren't losing any sleep wondering if our military's image is being tarnished; their opinion is that they put out the info and the public draws their own conclusions. But they do lose sleep if NBC or CBS gets those pics out before they do, and their ratings drop as a result.
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,713
Points
24
I think people are forgetting that the behavior of our military is a reflection of us as a whole. While the abusive bahavior can't be condoned or allowed, it must also be understood that our desire to lash out, and "DO" something has an effect. We put our soldiers into the line of fire and now that things have gone wrong, we want to "DO" something again.

With each passing firefight, our soldiers loose a bit more of thier humanity. You can't simulteaneously ask a soldier to be capable of killing repeatedly and then at the same time tell him he has to be kind and compassionate. The two separate needs are directly in opposition to the needs of the other. This is the problem with an ill defined objective.

If these "7 bad soldiers" had been supervised correctly, none of this would have happened. PFC's & Specialists DON'T have the power to do this on thier own, but they are the only ones going to pay the real price. Makes me sick. Numerous is the occasion when I have heard mr. average say that torture should be used if it suits us. Now they are the ones saying fry those soldiers. We can't have it both ways, but we seem to want it exactly like that.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
Duke Of Dystopia said:
I think people are forgetting that the behavior of our military is a reflection of us as a whole.
Exactly. Especially when we are purportedly exporting democracy to the region, our behavior is under close review.

Again, I expected this kind of behavior by our troops. Not because I believe we're bad guys, but because it happens to everybody on all sides of all wars, all the time. Trust me, I'm no soldier and no expert on conflict. But it seems to me that you can't effectively fight an enemy unless you dehumanize them in some way.

I'd be the first to say that if I captured an enemy and thought they were responsible for the deaths of friends and compatriots, my gut reaction would not include being humane to that person.
 

Wulf9

Member
Messages
923
Points
22
Duke Of Dystopia said:
Get all of the damn pictures out and let it be done for christs sake. Defeat by 3 pictures a week is freaking stupid! |-)
If the media were independent and professional, this would have been caught early on, exposed, and stopped before thousands of images were produced. There were enough ignored hints (like the Red Cross) that an investigative media should have followed up. leading to an early halt. Instead, our media has become fair and balanced.

Of course, if we had an open and investigative press, we might not have started the war that led to these images.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
pete-rock said:
I don't think you can blame the media. I'm betting they're releasing the pics as soon as they get them and vet them.

The media is so competitive, they fight with each other to get the story out, without much thought on the implications of getting it out. ABC News execs aren't losing any sleep wondering if our military's image is being tarnished; their opinion is that they put out the info and the public draws their own conclusions. But they do lose sleep if NBC or CBS gets those pics out before they do, and their ratings drop as a result.

I think it's called "sweeps". Most major sitcoms are ending seasons or series right now, they're leaking the pictures out because viewers aren't able to get their doses or "singing" contests or other reality t.v. crap.
 

Plannerbabs

Cyburbian
Messages
1,037
Points
23
pete-rock said:
I don't think you can blame the media. I'm betting they're releasing the pics as soon as they get them and vet them.

The media is so competitive, they fight with each other to get the story out, without much thought on the implications of getting it out. ABC News execs aren't losing any sleep wondering if our military's image is being tarnished; their opinion is that they put out the info and the public draws their own conclusions. But they do lose sleep if NBC or CBS gets those pics out before they do, and their ratings drop as a result.

I'm not so worried about the miliary's image being tarnished. I'm a bit more concerned about the men over there whose lives are now even more in danger because some news exec decided that showing the photos and video would sell more commercial airspace. It's truely pathetic when selling crap takes precedence over human life of any nationality. What the hell ever happened to "Loose lips sink ships"? |-)
 

Plannerbabs

Cyburbian
Messages
1,037
Points
23
After re-reading this, I wanted to apologize in case it sounded as though I was making personal attacks. Wasn't the intention--one of my best friends is over there and it worries me to think that he may be in danger more now because of this. that's all. Switching to decaf now.
 

tsc

Cyburbian
Messages
1,905
Points
23
WTF.... who in their right mind would pose for that picture??? getting that close to a dead guy? Really? This picture leads me to the conclusions that higher ups really were involved... and thus should be exposed. The big smile and thumbs up looks so fake and posed...and using women too. :-\
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
Has anyone ever considered that the pics themselves are part of the interrogation/abuse? That maybe they're originally intended for the prisoners to see?

You show the prisoner pics to the guys you just brought in last night, or the most uncooperative prisoners. Then you tell them, "this is what happens here in this prison. This is how much we enjoy doing it. And this is what happens when you don't talk to us."
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
Has anyone seen Buffalo Soldiers? That movie is seeming more and more realistic all the time.
 
Top