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Mr Berg's beheading

Should we look

  • Yes we would like to see

    Votes: 5 17.9%
  • Never

    Votes: 23 82.1%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .

Glasshouse

Cyburbian
Messages
120
Points
6
I couldn't figure out where to put this thread so here it lay,

I just saw pics of Mr Berg's beheading and they are pretty gross to say the least. I was already PO'ed just hearing about it.

But I thought about it and I think every adult American should see the pics so as the poor fella didn't die in vain, or at least we all realize what we are up against and do somthing about it.

I'll attach a poll to see if you people agree to see them and with permission I'll attach.

Bob

Mod Edit: If it ain't planning related, the FAC is the best spot. Thread moved.
 
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Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,816
Points
69
If they're attached, let's give fair warning so others can avoid them if they so desire. I haven't seen the images, and I assume they are very disturbing; not in a Goatse or Tubgirl way, but in a horror-of-war context. It wasn't a clean Saudi-style Chop-Chop Square beheading, which makes it even more graphic.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
Dan Id rather say dont attach them here but if folks want provide a link to them somewhere else. Its a horrible horrible thing but let the mans family and the man himself have some dignity in death-I find showing such things horribly disrespectful of the dead. But I freely admit my religious views are not the mainstream.

Just my .02
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,922
Points
37
Personally, I don't think Cyburbia is an appropriate place to display these pictures. We've had issues in the past with "not-safe-for-work" posts/images and the general consensus seemed to be that people did not want Cyburbia to become a place where those images are available.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,816
Points
69
Agreed. Provide a link to where the images can be seen off-site.
 

Glasshouse

Cyburbian
Messages
120
Points
6
It wasn't a quick easy chop Dan.

To top it all off the killers were screaming God is great while the poor fella pleaded for rationalism.

I tell ya, it's rather haunting.

Bob

Ok here's the link.

http://freedomfiles.proboards23.com/index.cgi

Then go to current affairs.

Then you will see the thread.

Bob
 
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PlannerByDay

Cyburbian
Messages
1,827
Points
24
I didn't vote but I looked.

At first it wasn't to bad then it sank in. I wished I had not looked. Quite distrubing.

EDIT:

The more I think about this the more I think this link should be removed and not made available on this forum. In my opinion if you want to see them, i'd suggest having the individual PM Glasshouse and get the link directly from him.

Just my now disturbed $0.02
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
I'm not looking.

Frankly, I saw enough when the tape was originally shown on the news, minus the "event". When I heard it was a beheading, and I saw the killer pull out a rather short sword/knife, I knew immediately it was a very messy, long and thoroughly horrific murder. I've heard it's more of a sawing than a clean cut.

When I heard of Nicholas Berg's story, I thought he was naive to believe that he could really contribute in Iraq as a civilian contractor without real government/military ties and backing. However, he still deserves to maintain his dignity, even in death. And more importantly, his family deserves to maintain their dignity during this awful time. Would we want the whole world to witness the murder of a loved one? Every time someone sees the killing, in the family's mind, it happens all over again.

Furthermore...

What these maniacal idiots want us to do is see this video and cower in despair, knowing that they "mean business". I will not be manipulated by fanatics. Hello, this is war. I fully expected to hear of more murders like this, and fully expect that more will occur. I don't have to see someone die to remind me of the job at hand in Iraq. I'm sure there are Iraqi soldiers, insurgents and civilians who have died in some very gruesome ways, and many more will die before it's all over. Again, this is war -- winning is the goal, but killing is the objective.

I've never fought in a war, but I know that someone said "war is hell" for a reason.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
I looked at the pics. Video will have to wait till I get home. I don't know why these pictures are not published in the papers, people should have a chance to see them.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
I don't understand why people are clamoring for this footage to be fully shown in the media. Horrific things happen all the time that are not fully shown and we understand their consequences. People are viciously murdered, raped and victimized every day and we're not shown the most graphic photos of their mutilated corpses just to "understand" the consequences of violence. Its not censorship just because you don't see every last drop of blood.
 
Messages
5,352
Points
31
I don't need to see the pictures to know that Nicholas Berg did not die in vain. Human beings (and I use that term very loosely) are capable of committing very atrocious acts in the name of their beliefs, whether its religion, nationality, whatever. Similar heinous acts have been committed right here in this country. Last week as everyone was hearing the news about the beheading and additional Iraqi prisoner abuse photos, the Justice Dept reopened the murder case of Emmitt Till. The pictures of him at the time of his death were incredibly disturbing. I've only seen them once, as a child, and they have left an indelible mark on me. Also last week, there were reports that James Byrd Jr.'s (the man that was dragged to death in Jasper, TX) grave had been desecrated. There are countless hate crimes that I could go into, but I've strayed off-topic enough.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
26
I voted no, i don't wanta see the horror in living color. My head is not buried in the sand,oblivious to the War on Terror. As I go about my life of comfort and safety I pray fervently everyday for peace. I don't need to see Berg's murder to snap me back to reality. Just as I don't need to see the Passion of Christ to know about Jesus' suffering.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
Jen said:
Just as I don't need to see the Passion of Christ to know about Jesus' suffering.

You know, without getting overly religious and way off-topic, I thought the very same thing. For Christian believers, Jesus suffered, died and rose again. I've never equated a focus on his suffering with an increase in my belief. In fact, a focus on his suffering, IMHO, may have spawned the hatred (namely, anti-Semitism) that has stigmatized Christianity for the last 2000+ years.

But I digress.
 

ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
I vacillated all morning and finally looked. The pics are not great quality thankfully. When I heard beheading on the news I was in disbelief. What a horrible way to die/kill, but I know that was the point. Disturbing.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,233
Points
52
I just looked at the pic's and the video (since I am home now)

I am not sure exactly what to think of this. I think that it is far, far beyond what any thing that I could have even imagined. We see things like a guillotine in a museum, but that seems unbelievably humane compared to this video. For anyone who says that there are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, I think that everyone has overlooked every terrorist who resides there. The physical act may be on only one person, but the emotional and psychological effects touch everyone. We need to end terrorism immediately, and I will admit, even I am a bit disappointed that our government has not done more to find the terrorists and bring them to the justice that they deserve and end this war.

I personally don't think that this is in response to the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners, I think that this is a directed attack on the US culture.
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,889
Points
26
Their culture sees the beheading as a equal and justified response to the prisoner abuse.

It's war.. it's difficult to accept.. but it's war.
 

Big Easy King

Cyburbian
Messages
1,361
Points
23
pete-rock said:
What these maniacal idiots want us to do is see this video and cower in despair, knowing that they "mean business". I will not be manipulated by fanatics. Hello, this is war. I fully expected to hear of more murders like this, and fully expect that more will occur. I don't have to see someone die to remind me of the job at hand in Iraq. I'm sure there are Iraqi soldiers, insurgents and civilians who have died in some very gruesome ways, and many more will die before it's all over. Again, this is war -- winning is the goal, but killing is the objective.

I completely agree.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
michaelskis said:
We need to end terrorism immediately, and I will admit, even I am a bit disappointed that our government has not done more to find the terrorists and bring them to the justice that they deserve and end this war.
Ok - here is what I don't understand about the war - the 9/11 terrorists aren't in Iraq. And PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but they still have not yet been able to prove that there has been a link from Iraq, or Saddam, to Al Qaeda, right? Even after our last soldier is out of Iraq, we still have not brought to justice the people that perpetrated WTC and the Pentagon.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
Yup your right no connection has been made. Al Quida wanted no part of Iraq or Saddam becouse they felt he was too secular.

No WMD, no Al Quida and we dont seem to be getting their oil so now what?
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
I saw the video, well, I got through part of it and just the knowledge of what was going to happen made me turn it off. It was awful, enough to make me physically ill, and I never got to the bad part.
 

Miles Ignatius

Cyburbian
Messages
368
Points
12
No Thanks

I'll pass. The poor man died a horrific death and the least we can do is extend him some degree of dignity by not viewing or circulating the video. By doing so, it seems that we're playing the cards for the SOB's that did it.

And I don't need yet another reminder that the world's a nefarious place....
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,557
Points
42
Those that have argued that not having the opportunity to view this horrific act sanitizes the current difficulties in Iraq and immunizes us from the reality of what is happening there. I disagree. The terrorists want us to witness these images -- to plant fear in us. The World Trade Centers weren't targeted so much for their strategic value, but because the world would see the horror of buildings burning and falling (although I am surprised at the number of video images that caught the planes striking the buildings). The terror war is as much a psychological war as a shooting war.

I stand with Miles Ignatius. I do not need to see it to know the horror of it.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,816
Points
69
Okay ... I saw a brief part of the video.

Extremely disturbing, and unquestionably brutal and inhumane.

The worst part was that during the cutting. you heard jubilant ululating (that "lalalalalala" sound) and shouts of "Allah! Allah!"

I don't hear any apologies from any mullahs or any representatives of the Islamic community.
 

Bear Up North

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
9,329
Points
31
This Bear is not going to view the pictures or video. I have no objection to others looking.

It is war. Horrible things happen in war. Doesn't matter whether or not the war is justified.....horrible things happen.

Try reading about the Russian Civil War, 1917-1922 (aprox). The Reds were doing horrible things to the Whites. The Whites in turn did horrible things to the Reds. Didn't seem to matter who's side you were on....Bolsheviks, Communists, the Czar's regime.....

Bear
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,713
Points
24
Gedunker said:
......The terrorists want us to witness these images -- to plant fear in us. The World Trade Centers weren't targeted so much for their strategic value, but because the world would see the horror of buildings burning and falling (although I am surprised at the number of video images that caught the planes striking the buildings). The terror war is as much a psychological war as a shooting war.

I stand with Miles Ignatius. I do not need to see it to know the horror of it.

I agree with what the what you are saying the terrorists tried to acomplish. But to any human being with a brain and a spine, such an act should only stiffen your resolve to not let them win.

I have been in many a fight in my life. I have faught even when I KNEW I was going to loose. I have faught when I knew it was going to be exceedingly painful. I fault burhg for not fighting back. I fault him for not being bruised, and bloddy, and resisting while on camera. I fault him for acting cowerdly when he should have been trying to bite them. At least to scream something to interupt thier ignorant message to the rest of the world.

If resisting these bastards means being a monster, so be it, better to go down in flames as the worst monster to have ever walked the planet than to go down in whimpers. No mullahs are saying sorry or acting as if they care. The muslim world does not understand why we chastise our own and agonize of Abu Grab-ass. What they need to find out more than anything, is that such behavior brings a response that means something they don't want. How to achieve that is the hard part. Given the choice between fear on my part and a wrathful response, I choose wrath. Thier is nothing noble or good about it, but you can be sure you have thier ear.

Think we are in a six of one, half dozen of the other situation. Yeah, we helped create the mess were in :-\ Time has a way of working these things out, one way or the other.
 

Hipockethipy

Member
Messages
13
Points
1
I saw the video of that poor man, and it sickened me to the core!! I wish I hadn't.

michaelskis said:
I personally don't think that this is in response to the abuse of the Iraqi prisoners, I think that this is a directed attack on the US culture.

I think it is more a reaction (albeit an over the top one) to the long history of gung-ho self interested US foreign policy, more than an attack on US "culture". Just look at the US's involvement in the Mid-east, Saddam was "our boy" until not that long ago. Who do you think gave him the WMDs in the first place? Rumsfeld was the US emissery to Iraq for Regan during the Iran-Iraq war, so I suppose he really did know they had them!

Certainly the terrorists are zeolots that don't know that "two wrongs don't make a right" but correct me if i'm wrong isn't "an eye for an eye..." from the old testiment? The muslims lived side by side with Christians and Jews for ages until the Crusades (and who started that one), and then after many hundreds of years managed to forgive and forget, until they were lobbed with the State of Isreal, after no one knew what to do with ship loads of Jews after WWII.

All this is not helped by GW refering to the whole situation as a "crusade" against terrorism. Now that should calm the situation down!

I no way condone or agree with the terrorists or their dispicable acts but I recognise that for some the justification cames in the form of "desperate times call for desperate measures". I doubt anyone here would say they wouldn't mind living in Ramala at the moment. And I doubt they can be disuaded - generations will pass in the same way unless someone changes track.

I think this is a job for the UN!! Unfortunately I think the window of opportunity may be well and truly closed.

It's only going to get uglier from here.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,233
Points
52
Downtown said:
Ok - here is what I don't understand about the war - the 9/11 terrorists aren't in Iraq. And PLEASE correct me if I'm wrong, but they still have not yet been able to prove that there has been a link from Iraq, or Saddam, to Al Qaeda, right? Even after our last soldier is out of Iraq, we still have not brought to justice the people that perpetrated WTC and the Pentagon.

I don't think that Jeffery Dalmer had any connection to Charles Mansion. Does that make Dalmer any less evil? Just because there is not a direct connection In order to prevent terrorism it is necessary to be proactive as opposed to reactive. Iraq control was a threat to the safety US, therefore, we needed to eliminate the threat. Nuclear weapons do not need to be the only WMD, look at the brutality imposed on Mr. Berg. It was not because they were or were not Muslim, it is because they were terrorist. I have a few friends that are Muslim, and they agree with me that this is in fact a just war.

Hipockethipy said:
...The muslims lived side by side with Christians and Jews for ages until the Crusades (and who started that one), and then after many hundreds of years managed to forgive and forget, until they were lobbed with the State of Isreal, after no one knew what to do with ship loads of Jews after WWII.

I fully believe that this is NOT because of religion. Every Muslim I know has far different way of thinking than the terrorists that killed Mr. Berg. They may worship the same god, but their beliefs are way different. The members of the KKK were Christian. Does that make all Christians bad? No, only the ones who repress, torture, or harm others.
 

Hipockethipy

Member
Messages
13
Points
1
michaelskis said:
I fully believe that this is NOT because of religion. Every Muslim I know has far different way of thinking than the terrorists that killed Mr. Berg. They may worship the same god, but their beliefs are way different. The members of the KKK were Christian. Does that make all Christians bad? No, only the ones who repress, torture, or harm others.

I agree that it is not religous, but my point is that they have their reasons too, in fact if you substitute
"american imperialism" for "terrorism"
"american domination" for "iraq control", and
"Islam" for "US"
in your quote below, it could be an fundamentalist muslim's justifcation for the 9-11 attacks, no?


michaelskis said:
...Just because there is not a direct connection In order to prevent terrorism it is necessary to be proactive as opposed to reactive. Iraq control was a threat to the safety US, therefore, we needed to eliminate the threat.QUOTE]

And whether you agree or not, they do have thier reasons. The US support for Israel would have to top the list. They other stuff I mentioned is just further bad blood. And while they have their reasons, and the US has their reasons, it will go on, unless you figure on killing all the potential terrorists, which would have to include every muslim man, woman and child in iraq, afganistan.....

The solution is not in the box.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
michaelskis said:
I don't think that Jeffery Dalmer had any connection to Charles Mansion. Does that make Dalmer any less evil? Just because there is not a direct connection In order to prevent terrorism it is necessary to be proactive as opposed to reactive. Iraq control was a threat to the safety US, therefore, we needed to eliminate the threat. Nuclear weapons do not need to be the only WMD, look at the brutality imposed on Mr. Berg. It was not because they were or were not Muslim, it is because they were terrorist. I have a few friends that are Muslim, and they agree with me that this is in fact a just war.

1) The FBI and local police never used Charles Manson as a justification for going after potentially sexually frustrated cannibals, and my guess is they never would.

2) There has always been a far greater connection between al Qaeda and Saudi militants. That's always been the connection that needs further investigation.

3) Terrorism cannot be prevented. It can be contained, deterred, and diminished, but it cannot be prevented.

4) Everyone knows that when the Administration was talking about WMDs, they weren't talking about zealous maniacs with big knives -- they were talking about nuclear programs and chemical weapons. I actually think there were WMDs in Iraq, that weren't targeted to the US, and they were either destroyed or moved to Syria, Pakistan, or other places. But to shift the emphasis from thousands of tons of weapons to hundreds of demented individual actors, simply because we haven't found or can't find them, is an affront to the American public's intelligence.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,233
Points
52
pete-rock said:
3) Terrorism cannot be prevented. It can be contained, deterred, and diminished, but it cannot be prevented.

Then what is the reasoning behind the liberal led 9-11 commission. They are trying to see if it could have been prevented.

9-11 and Al Quida was just the starting catalyst for further ending of further terrorism against the US. In war or not, if an Iraqi is walking down a street in the US, we are not going to cut his head off... It was an unjustifiable act of terrorism on Mr. Berg. Al Quida attacked New York for religious beliefs (to kill the infidels... the terrorists kept saying Akbar Allah, both cases where targeting civilians, both cases where highly broadcast, both cases where brutal. We may live in a different world than our parents, but when an innocent person is brutally murdered, not just hit by a stray bullet or missing a target, then something needs to be done. If you are comfortable with living in a world like that, then you have all right. But that is not a world that I would want my children (if I ever get married and have any) growing up in.

Overall, I think that you feel one way about this war, and I feel another way, and that is what is great about America, is it is ok to not agree. :) Iraq on the other hand... we would end up dead.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
michaelskis said:
Then what is the reasoning behind the liberal led 9-11 commission. They are trying to see if it could have been prevented.

9-11 and Al Quida was just the starting catalyst for further ending of further terrorism against the US. In war or not, if an Iraqi is walking down a street in the US, we are not going to cut his head off... It was an unjustifiable act of terrorism on Mr. Berg. Al Quida attacked New York for religious beliefs (to kill the infidels... the terrorists kept saying Akbar Allah, both cases where targeting civilians, both cases where highly broadcast, both cases where brutal. We may live in a different world than our parents, but when an innocent person is brutally murdered, not just hit by a stray bullet or missing a target, then something needs to be done. If you are comfortable with living in a world like that, then you have all right. But that is not a world that I would want my children (if I ever get married and have any) growing up in.

Overall, I think that you feel one way about this war, and I feel another way, and that is what is great about America, is it is ok to not agree. :) Iraq on the other hand... we would end up dead.

Michaelskis - the point I'm trying to make is that you can NOT connect the terrorist acts that occurred in our country with the war in Iraq. No one is arguing that the people that perpetrating the events of 9/11 SHOULDN'T be brought to justice. But that isn't why we're in Iraq.

AND, we do live in a world where innocent people (Americans) are horribly and brutally murdered every day - in their own country, in their own towns. Nick Berg, and every single American in Iraq, was/are aware that there is a war going on there and they are in a dangerous situation. Does it excuse what happened? Absolutely not. Should Nick Berg's killers be brought to justice? Undoubtably. But I'm very, and happily, surprised that we haven't seen more of this.
 

pete-rock

Cyburbian
Messages
1,550
Points
24
michaelskis said:
Then what is the reasoning behind the liberal led 9-11 commission. They are trying to see if it could have been prevented.

9-11 and Al Quida was just the starting catalyst for further ending of further terrorism against the US. In war or not, if an Iraqi is walking down a street in the US, we are not going to cut his head off... It was an unjustifiable act of terrorism on Mr. Berg. Al Quida attacked New York for religious beliefs (to kill the infidels... the terrorists kept saying Akbar Allah, both cases where targeting civilians, both cases where highly broadcast, both cases where brutal. We may live in a different world than our parents, but when an innocent person is brutally murdered, not just hit by a stray bullet or missing a target, then something needs to be done. If you are comfortable with living in a world like that, then you have all right. But that is not a world that I would want my children (if I ever get married and have any) growing up in.

Overall, I think that you feel one way about this war, and I feel another way, and that is what is great about America, is it is ok to not agree. :) Iraq on the other hand... we would end up dead.

1) The 9/11 Commission is not "liberal-led". I believe all the commission members were appointed by President Bush.

2) I don't think the commission's goal is to determine whether 9/11 could've been prevented. It is to determine whether our level of preparedness in the face of terrorism was appropriate at the time, and how prepared we should be in the future. All the testimony that I've heard so far suggests that our top officials believe a terrorist event, 9/11 or otherwise, cannot be 100% prevented.

3) We didn't go to war because Nicholas Berg got his head cut off. We didn't go to war because Daniel Pearl got his head cut off. We didn't go to war in the '80s during the Lebanese civil war, for example, when Islamic militants tried to provoke us with the kidnapping and execution of dozens of Americans (BTW, when they suicide-bombed our Marine camp and killed 200+ Marines in 1983, we got outta there like a bat outta hell). We went to war because of WMDs, or because Saddam was an evil dictator, or to shift the balance of power in the Middle East, or to export freedom and democracy...

4) Nicholas Berg's murder is a despicable act that, unfortunately, is a by-product of war. 9/11 was a despicable act that gave us moral and legal justification for war against the people who did it -- al Qaeda, the Taliban and the militants who support them.

5) The "world we live in" is no different today than pre-9/11; only our exposure to the events of the world has changed. Gruesome retribution killings have happened since time immemorial, and they will happen again. I do have children, and I don't want them to grow up in a violent world, but the world is what it is, and what it always has been.

6) Yes, we have different opinions on the war, and what is great about America is that we can have this discussion. God bless us (no sarcasm here, I mean it). And true, dissent in Iraq under Saddam or any other country like it would target us for death. I just wish others could see as clearly as I do the path we're on.
 
Messages
2
Points
0
berg, phot op propagand, spies, PBS propagand

I saw some where on a thread that a doctor who looked at the film said it was partially faked in that Berg was dead when he was decapitated. Otherwise there would have been arterial blood spurting every where. It seems to me the whole thing was a sick photo op ment to recruit from the sickest Islamic Jihadist. It sounds to me like the docotor was right. Why take a chance on what the prisoner might do during the beheading that would s---w up your photo op. You only get one shot at it. As the military analyst say when the violence starts "the enemy gets a vote" on how your plans turn out. Hope that makes some of you feel better.
It is interesting that CBS reported Berg had befriended Moussaui, the "20th 9/11 hijacker." When the FBI interviewed the Berg family in 2002 about why Nick had allowed Mossaui to use his PC Bergs father said the two had met on a bus to classes in Oklahoma. There was speculation Nick Berg was an Isralie agent for ideological reasons. That fact he had a Isralie stamp on his passport didn't help. Apparently while he was in Iraq in the coustody of the US/Iraqi police (heavily infiltrated by Iraqi resistance) word got out to the terrorist about his possible connectrions to Israeli intelligence. It is a safe bet the terrorist picked him up the minute the Iraqi "police" released him.
As to other propaganda the Emmitt Till case has been used and abused too. The American Experience story "The Murder of Emmitt Till" said in part.
"In 1940, Mamie married soldier Louis Till, and one year latear, their son Emmitt, was born. IN 1945, Mamie got word that Private Till had died in Europe. All she received of his possessions was a signet ring---"
This made me think the older Till had died fighting for America. Later I found out on cofcc.org that Louis Till was hanged in July 1945 after a military courtmartial. Louis was convicted of raping two Italian women and murdering a third.
In Jan 2003 "Jet" reporter Malcolm R. West wrote: "Ironically, 10 years before Emmett's murder, his father, and Army private, was hanged for allegedly raping and murdring an Italian woman overseas."
As they say, don't believe every thing your government institutions, in this case PBS, implies.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
partizanyaphil said:
It is interesting that CBS reported Berg had befriended Moussaui, the "20th 9/11 hijacker." When the FBI interviewed the Berg family in 2002 about why Nick had allowed Mossaui to use his PC Bergs father said the two had met on a bus to classes in Oklahoma. There was speculation Nick Berg was an Isralie agent for ideological reasons. That fact he had a Isralie stamp on his passport didn't help. Apparently while he was in Iraq in the coustody of the US/Iraqi police (heavily infiltrated by Iraqi resistance) word got out to the terrorist about his possible connectrions to Israeli intelligence. It is a safe bet the terrorist picked him up the minute the Iraqi "police" released him.

As they say, don't believe every thing your government institutions, in this case PBS, implies.

Somebody get Scully and Mulder on this;)


There's stories behind every story B-)
 
Messages
2
Points
0
Rumpy:

I'm not familiar with that movie. However "don't have any attachment you can't walk out on" probably works both ways.
In war it is all about having attachments. At least once the new replacements became veterans. You have to have some one who is attached to you in combat. For a lone wolf spy it may be different.
PS. Maybe some day I'll treat you to "The Parable of the Red Necks". That should really get your guts in a knot.
 

Duke Of Dystopia

Cyburbian
Messages
2,713
Points
24
People are forgeting, terror is the weapon used when you can't stand toe to toe with the enemy and punch him in the nose. The real question is do we have the guts to run the little bastards to ground and do what it takes to exterminate them.

@ Michaelski

Your post Iraqi intervention rationalizations on how the war was justified are as laughable as listening to the current administration try to insist the gohst weapons of mass destruction not only use to exist but are still there and might be found. It's only what they mutter to prevent gw from being impeached.

I would agree that had we actually found the WMD's we would have had world support and been lagitimate, but then, that would have meant the administration didn't lie to us either, and they would still have some credibility.

The 4 billion dollars a month the Iraqi occupation is costing could go a long way toward penetrating every last organization that would do us harm. Instead, we spin our wheels and are getting nowhere because of piss poor leadership from the president on down.
 
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You know, I have read very little of this thread (today, at least). But I would like to make the point that while the incident is disturbing, at least some Middle Eastern countries (like Saudi Arabia, when my husband was stationed there a few years ago) still have public beheadings when a criminal is sentenced to death. So I think that it doesn't have quite the same meaning for the people who did it as it does for us here in America, where such an act seems unimaginable and seems to be the actions of insane people. They aren't likely to find it quite so horrifying or extremist and probably think we are wusses for being so incredibly disturbed. To us, it seems bizarrely brutal. For them, it may have a very different meaning. Given that it is a state-sanctioned form of execution in some places, in their minds, it might imply Justice and it might seem 'proper' in some manner.

As for Dan's comments about the chantings of "Allah" in the background, it is tradition in this country to give sacraments, allow confessions, etc, to honor the soul of someone whom we have sentenced to death. Unless you are fluent in Arabic, how do you know that they weren't practicing some similar tradition? And would you expect a Catholic priest to apologize for offering prayers for someone's soul?
 
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Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
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partizanyaphil said:
Rumpy:

I'm not familiar with that movie. However "don't have any attachment you can't walk out on" probably works both ways.
In war it is all about having attachments. At least once the new replacements became veterans. You have to have some one who is attached to you in combat. For a lone wolf spy it may be different.
PS. Maybe some day I'll treat you to "The Parable of the Red Necks". That should really get your guts in a knot.

The quote on my signature is from the movie "Heat" and has nothing to do with my response of Scully and Mulder (the truth is out there!;)).

As for the comment there is a story behind ever story, it doesn't surprise me if Mr. Berg was in fact a friend of Moussaui, the "20th 9/11 hijacker". It seems that everthing going on now and the people involved have some sort of connection.

But then again, it didn't surprise me that Michael Jackson paid his way out of going to jail again either.











;-)
 
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