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Not just J-Lo hates sprawl.... Mettallica does too!

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On cnn.com:
Metallica singer gives land
SAN RAFAEL, California (AP) -- Metallica lead singer James Hetfield is officially a benefactor of Marin County's park system.

Marin County supervisors agreed to accept a 438.5-acre easement from Hetfield.

By giving property rights to the county's Department of Parks, Open Space & Cultural Development, Hetfield is guaranteed the land will be preserved and its care will be the responsibility of the county.

Hetfield and his wife, Francesca, plan to build a 14,000-square-foot house, swimming pool and another 6,000-square-foot building that would house a music studio, garage and caretaker's residence on part of the land they kept for development.

"I'm very excited about this easement and I consider it to be a generous offer on the part of the Hetfields," Supervisor Steve Kinsey said Tuesday. "It puts another nail in the coffin for suburban sprawl in Lucas Valley."
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
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While I think that is a very generous gesture, isn't it ironic how Marin County (one of the wealthiest counties in the nation) is given an easement, while other counties who suffer from lack of funding have to make due with whatever they acquire with what little funds they have available.

But again, a very generous gift. It is only an easement though, not an outright gift of land, and I don't think James is too strapped for cash that he needed to lot out that property to make ends meet.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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The scold replies

I am being a dour, severe (hypocritical) environmentalist,

BUT:

A gift of land does not cancel out the environmental impacts of a 20,000 square foot compound (for two adults and a couple of kids) and, I would guess as he is a MANLY metalhead, an entire fleet of large MANLY SUVs.

Sorry, what have I done for environment lately? Not much. :)
 

Jen

Cyburbian
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You are so right BKM

That does stand for butt kicking mode right?
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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I am being pretty judgemental, but the term "Limousine Liberal" comes to mind. I just don't understand how anyone could need a 20,000 square foot house. Oh well, if he can afford it from all those royalties. . .

But, since I drive everywhere (excessively), who am I to throw stones?

Alas, I am just a pudgy, approaching middle age government bureaucrat. "Butt Kicking" is not something I would claim for myself :)
 

prudence

Cyburbian
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Sometimes the posts make my head bleed...

Why must the bleeding heart liberals pass judgement on everything?

Who cares if someone wants/has a 20,000 SF compund? If you don't want one, then don't have one. But don't criticize another for wanting one.

Again, a benefactor provides 400+ acres for conservation and still you people aren't happy. When is it enough? Moreover, why do you care?

BUT THERE'S A BIGGER ISSUE AT HAND...THE MINDSET.

It's terribly easy to for people (Read: Democrats) to annouce to the world they are for something, yet propose no solutions to achieving it. That's why the Democrats appear gracious in all that they do. Impose more regulations and programs, increase government and bureaucracy, (which all look goog in the public eye) and increase taxes to fund it all.

Democrats oppose logging, mining, drilling, etc and are in bed with ALL the labor unions. Doesn't that strike anybody as a touch hypocritical?

Government and regulation is not the solution to everything.


Oh, I am going to catch hell for this one. EG, call the cavalry...
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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James Hetfield could care less about my opinion of him.

This is a DISCUSSION BOARD. Sometimes we have rants that are not always consistent or fully logical. Since Mr. Hetfield IS a member of the BLEEDING HEART LIBERAL chattering classes (read some Metallica lyrics before you jump to his defense), I just thought his donation rather ironic.

I'm not sure its really all that "Conservative" in the old fashioned sense of the world to say that gluttonous consumption is a positive value. Old fashioned conservatives (not the "let the market rip and damn the world school) would also look askance at this. Of course, when "conservative" is defined as the values of the Las Vegas-Enron culture of the moment in the United States, it falls upon us dour, no-fun bleeding heart liberals to ask some questions.

Do I really think the government should step in and say "no" to this, not really. (Although large SUVs should meet the same regulations as passenger cars). Nowhere in my post did I imply that "government and regulations" are the answer (I don't recall even asking any such broad questions, by the way)

I still have the right to make fun of it. Just as you have the right to read into a simple snide comment all kinds of nefarious bleeding heart liberal philosophies and conspiracies.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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And, I have no problem with his donation per se. Its great.
 
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Thanks, Prudence. I was feeling a little sluggish this morning, and now i'm feeling all fired up! :) however, the older I get, the more tired talking politics makes me. but we haven't had a really good hijack in awhile.

my two cents on the original topic is that I think Hetfield did a really cool thing, and although I wish it were otherwise, if I had that much money, you can bet your sweet a** that I'd probably be writing this from my own 20K sq.ft. compound.

as for the hijack, prudence, i think you're painting with a mighty wide brush there, hon. as a flaming liberal, i'm taking a bit of exception to your hijack, but definitely agree that a lot of government programs that are funded are extremely misguided and fail miserably. and i think it is very short sighted for anyone to think that government can fix any and all problems - look at how much money we throw at our public school system and see where that's got us.

anyway, am looking very forward to see where this thread goes.

kel
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
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Step away from Prudence and no one gets hurt!

It’s hard to criticize compound owners who drive gas guzzlers when more women have been sexually assaulted and or killed on their way to or from the Kennedy compound in fuel guzzling boats, planes and land yachts than at any Frat Ecstasy party. What is the square footage of Bill Moyer’s home? Why does Pat Ireland travel in a Suburban?

Judgmental EcoFolk; Every time you jet off to someplace to ride your bike down a mountain or swim in the sea for vacation you use my yearly fuel budget in Avgas. I have a catalytic converter on my efficient and well tuned old car, yet you don’t hear me whining about the eco weenies who drive new Hondas every three years. How much energy does it take to stay stylish and have a new car built for your vanity. How much energy went into making that $5000 Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike?

Who drives an electric car and lives in an efficiency apartment besides Ed Beagly Jr.?
A. Patricia Ireland
B. Teddy K.
C. Mobby
D. Joan Woodward
E. None of the above

Get my point? We can throw stones all day or we can live our life and set a silent example. Damn few live the life they want to impose on others.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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As usual, El Guapo, you do have a point. I would never deny that I was being snide or judgemental :)

Its just so much fun, sometimes, especially when critiquing the limousine liberal class. (I thought THAT was actually a conservative sport, by the way :) )

And, as I commute (less than ten miles-but still at least two cold starts per day), and I certainly drive way too many miles, I would never claim to be pure.

20,000 square feet, though? Why? I have trouble keeping up with the dust in my little townhouse!

I would rather have a small, ultrapolished townhouse in SF-which would cost more than a 20,000 square foot compound in much of the country!
 

BKM

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I would note that the energy in my new bike is still less than the embedded energy in your gun collection, E. G. :)

(As for the new car, again mea culpa, but I anticipate this being the last one for a LONGGGGGGG time).
 

el Guapo

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BKM said:
I would note that the energy in my new bike is still less than the embedded energy in your gun collection, E. G. :)

(As for the new car, again mea culpa, but I anticipate this being the last one for a LONGGGGGGG time).
The man has a point. ;) The potential energy in my ammo cache alone is measured in kilotons. Someone has to be the Arsenal of Democaray - Why not me?

Believe it or not EG tries to make decisions based on the stewardship of many resources. We conservatives are just not as good at working the lingo into our everyday speech. We also have many competing interests to balance in our lives. Your priority cause and mine may not be the same but I'll bet our lists are the same, just in different orders.

The new house we are buying is on a lot is about 15,000 ft2. ( I messed up that is the house size - not the lot size. Ouuuu that is big.) It is not that big folks. It is an average sized suburban lot. My view is this; If I felt my family would be safe living in the old part of town in an older house I'd be there in a flash. I like the old stuff. Clean up crime and you will get your uppified gentrification and rehab of former tenements. But who wants to have your family over for dinner and then have to inform them to drive thier clunkers and don't leave any valuables in the car while they are over for dinner becasue the junkie that lives across the street is going to go car diving?

If it takes living in the subs and having the wife drive a boat to increase the odds then that is my choice. Life is all about playing the odds. I'm not opposed to you doing it your way. The most dangerous thing I do is go to work downtown for night meetings. And I was in Bomb Disposal in the Army so I have a healthy knowledge of the danger spectrum.

Guapo loves all the people of the world and wishes them well, well except of course the Kennedys.
 

Repo Man

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BKM said:
20,000 square feet, though? Why? I have trouble keeping up with the dust in my little townhouse!

I would rather have a small, ultrapolished townhouse in SF-which would cost more than a 20,000 square foot compound in much of the country!
I am far from being conservative, but if someone wants a 20,000 square foot house, that is fine with me. If you have the money, you should be able to build as large of a house as the law allows. It is all about personal preference, and Mr Hetfield likes his music bland (at least since ..And Justice for All) and his house large.
 

BKM

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Again, I would never say that the "law" should prohibit 20,000 square foot houses.

Although, our City Council directed staff to write an FAR limit into the Zoning Ordinance-because a junior "doctor of color" dared propose an admittedly bulky house that was larger than that of the senior doctor at the medical firm next door.)

Just like the law allows me to make fun of him for self-righteous reasons. (While acknowledging hypocrisy. Hey, if we can't make fun of "celebrities", what's the world come to?
 

Jeff

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Re: Step away from Prudence and no one gets hurt!

El Guapo said:
. How much energy went into making that $5000 Carbon Fiber Mountain Bike?

You got it all wrong Guap...

The Mountain Bikes are made of aluminum or titanium. It's the Road bikes that are Carbon Fiber :)
 

el Guapo

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Those darn Doctors of Color

Being married to a "Doctor of Color" I can tell you they are quite a bit of fun. Have one over to dinner some time. They are madcap yet retain a bit of whimsey. They are a good thing.

I think we have all taken a collective sigh, both liberal and fascist, and we understand that we are smarter than Marin County and that they should let the combined members of Cyburbia run the world. (insert maniacal laughter)
 

Jen

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Today I picked up a book on hold from my library coop; A cyburbanite mentioned Eden F

Awww {{{{{El Guapo}}}}}}}}

Wow that is a big house, I bet you have a super large TV and humongo closets. And room for junior's lab and room for your stuff. I understand!

BUt. If I were to win the lotto or somehow scrimp save and earn enough I would never, unless there is a real state of emergency, barricade myself in a fortressed size house. I would have to share the living quarters with a anothr family or two in a house so big.

And on to the mega hoomes, how many really recoup the cost of building it, Are those properties holding their value? I wonder?

I do need more room but All we really need is to attach a pole barn to the house and we would really be set.

SO who designed the house? What are the features? Let me talk to your wife....



And prudence what exactly were you stewing about before you picked up BKM's post??? Local Party politics, and the like. Whatever, and by the way it is worth repeating my personal favorite of the Limerick contest:
Oh yeah?
Thus did start the great Cyburbia Limerick War...

>snip
There once was a planner named bturk
Who's said to possess one major quirk
He closes the door,
Drops his pants to the floor
And asks Prudence to give him a jerk
<unzip
 

el Guapo

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Re: Re: Step away from Prudence and no one gets hurt!

Mike DeVuono said:


You got it all wrong Guap...

The Mountain Bikes are made of aluminum or titanium. It's the Road bikes that are Carbon Fiber :)
Guap rides a $150 Schwinn. (bought from a dealer - not a big box)

It reminds me of a quote by Antonio in the old series Wings
He sees a very valuable exotic sports car in the hanger and states "That car is like a beautiful woman." The people standing by ask what he means. His reply "I'll never drive either one."

yep that sums it up
 

el Guapo

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Re: Today I picked up a book on hold from my library coop; A cyburbanite mentioned Eden F

Jen said:
Awww {{{{{El Guapo}}}}}}}}.

SO who designed the house? What are the features? Let me talk to your wife....


Guapo admits he *&%^%# up. He mis read the post . His new house to be is on a lot 3/4's the size of the Metalman's house. Its only 1750 ft2. with a two car garage and I promise to do a drainage study before any landscaping.

Jr. does want to build an electomangentic rail gun for the 8th grade science fair, however.

GUAPO begs to be let back in the house. He wags his tail and whines softly.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
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Re: Today I picked up a book on hold from my library coop; A cyburbanite mentioned Eden F

Jen said:
And prudence what exactly were you stewing about before you picked up BKM's post??? Local Party politics, and the like. Whatever, and by the way it is worth repeating my personal favorite of the Limerick contest:
Oh yeah?
Thus did start the great Cyburbia Limerick War...


[Steps onto soapbox...]

I have been sickened over the past few weeks by the demonstrations out west and the hypocrisy of society. This country was built on industry and entrenpreneurial spirit, be it trappers and traders, or oil, steel, and railroad magnates. Oregon residents became unglued during the Bush visit. They were outraged regarding logging decision, but forgot that is has been a backbone to their regions since the late 1700s...

For a start, this is what I want (mind you this is only a partial list...)

1. No tolerance for people sitting at home, jobless, procreating, and collecting a check from the government. I work, so should everybody else. No handouts. Do you realize we work until May of every year just to pay our taxes??

2. An end to political correctness, the "disenfranchised," and the like...sometimes the truth hurts. If we continue to tolerate mediocrity to ensure that nobody feels slighted, then we will soon be mediocre. We need ACCOUNTABILITY. THere are right and wrong answers, responses, morality, etc. I should not have to lower my standards to accommodate you. Whatever happened to social darwinism??

3. An end to public school choice. Schools will become infinitely better when they are the only option. If you want to go to a different school, then move. Some neighborhoods ARE worse than others (see #1) then will decisions be made to make them better.

4. Less meddling by my neighbors, my government, and every a**hole (read: Democrats) who thinks they know how to better spend my $$, raise my kids (if I had any), and run my life...NOTE: I did not call for the outright exclusion of these, just [i[less of it[/i].

5. An end to social security. It is NOT a retirement program. It was a program developed by FDR (the Great Oz of Democrats) as a mechanism to assist people in getting back on their feet during dire times... If you do not protect yourself, see my note on social darwinism.

6. A Constitutional amendment prohibiting slow traffic in the left lane. I think it's self-explanatory.

THere's more, but I don't have the time right now. I feel like Col. Jessup:

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have more responsibility here than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And that my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. I know deep down in places you dont talk about at parties, you don't want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it. I prefer you said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand to post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to!"

And please note that I had no involvement in the limerick thing. I was an innocent bystander. It just happens that bturk and I are in the same office...but it again proves it is far easier to spout nonsense then to speak the truth. The simpleminded are often mesmerized by the flash in the pan...

[Steps off soapbox...]
 

el Guapo

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Dude?

Off Topic

Mike D. What is with the Whore from the Future Avatar?

On Topic
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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3. An end to public school choice. Schools will become infinitely better when they are the only option. If you want to go to a different school, then move. Some neighborhoods ARE worse than others (see #1) then will decisions be made to make them better.

Prudence: This contradicts everything else you said. Why not just eliminate public schools entirely, leaving social darwinism to pick those whose parents suffer enough or are serious enough to educate their children? Public education is such a socialist concept, and the teachers' unions are one of the last powerful bastions of political correctness and mediocrity. Just eliminate it all!

Imagine the fortunes that can be made by those who are evolutionary superiors in developing wonderous private schools systems! No more political correctness! No more evil liberal teachers' unions! The market system is the only arbiter of what matters!

In the New World Order, we need a COMPLETELY uneducated underclass, (not that the products of inner city schools are all that educated) to, as the BORG put it "SERVE US."

And, we certainly need no public employees (planners). Liberate the land markets! Build what you want- it is MY PROPERTY! If the lumpenproletariate have to live in festering favellas, well, they deserve it! Social Darwinism is my new religion!
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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Can my Happy Place have a library with plentiful copies of Das Kapital and worshipful biographies of Teddy? :)
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
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Yep!

And Prudence can snuggle with Ann while he remotely shocks bTurk through his Collar of Death remote obediance system.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
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Confused...

I will NEVER inderstand the liberal mindset...I think my madness reslts from attempting to understand the thinking...

The lack of accountability, resolution, follow-through, do-as-I-say-not-as-I-do thinking is baffling.

[Returns to snuggling Rush's feet....]
 

BKM

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As I will never understand the internal contradictions and muddleheadedness of what we call "conservatism" today (which in its fetishization of the market would be disowned by traditional communitarian conservatism).

I think I'll go join a march (Just Kidding!!!! I think those folks are silly, too).
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
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Which one of you invitied Shirley McLane anyway?

BKM, are you channelling the spirit of MUGBUB today?? These rants sounds amazingly familiar....
 

BKM

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MUGWUB

Please don't call an Exorcist, bturk! Her spirit. . .is just so POWERFUL. I feel the draw of the DARK SIDE. I have a strange NEED to bujy an Ann Coulter book and listen to Rush. Save me!
 
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It never ceases to amaze me how conservatives can blame liberals for everything that is wrong in this world and vice versa yet neither party is willing to take responsibilty for their own actions.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
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I agree Planderella

Until there is a viable multi-party system similar to Great Braitian and Germany, nothing will bet done at the federal level. Reps and Dems just draw a line in the sand, there is no incentive, nor need, to cooperate to advance their agenda. You need a system where no single group has a clear majority...
 

el Guapo

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Re: I agree Planderella

prudence said:
You need a system where no single group has a clear majority...
Yeah Like Canada! Nobody is "in charge" up there. Its an autonomous collective which takes turns rotating the executive functions to each member in turn.

We can't leave our friendly neighbors to the North out of our cat fight!
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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This debate is taking an interesting (and calmer) turn.

I would point out that I am not that liberal (I am very, very square-except for weird music taste). By Bay Area standards I am very conservative, actually. (Heck, I'm not sure a dockworker whose union has refused any technological changes should be earning $40,000 per year, let alone $130,000 per year (the potential strike is the big news out here-and Jesse Jackson is out here stirring up trouble-them darn outside agitators). Heck, dislike of ostentation (20,000 square foot house) could be seen as a conservative trait, even :) But then, by world standards MY lifestyle is ostentatious, so there you go :)

And, I would certainly agree that there are inherent contradictions in any political position held too rigidly.

Back on topic: Not sure proportional representation is the answer. The Big Two muddle things down the middle, admittedly. But, given the inherent contradictions and competing interests in the United States, I don't know if Proportional Representation would work-or would just create chaos. Maybe it would force the coalition building more out in the open, but I would fear Italian-style paralysis.

I don't know the answer to this.
 

el Guapo

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Let's go way off track

As a NRA member I am willing to compromise on the issue of Gun Control and let the federal government have a list of all gun owners and their guns if they give us a list of all Democrats and Federal law enforcement officials and their home addresses. Fair?
 

prudence

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Re: Let's go way off track

El Guapo said:
As a NRA member I am willing to compromise on the issue of Gun Control and let the federal government have a list of all gun owners and their guns if they give us a list of all Democrats and Federal law enforcement officials and their home addresses. Fair?

That's what I LOVE about you EG, your ability to compromise.
 

Jeff

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Re: Dude?

El Guapo said:
Off Topic

Mike D. What is with the Whore from the Future Avatar?

On Topic
I dunno....

I heard on Stern this morning that Jenna and Britney Spears are getting kinda close now...

Ok back to the NRA ... (Life Member). I'm also all for creating a list of gun owners. It lets the bad guys know not to rob my house.
 

el Guapo

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Re: Re: Dude?

Mike DeVuono said:


I dunno....

I heard on Stern this morning that Jenna and Britney Spears are getting kinda close now...

Ok back to the NRA ... (Life Member). I'm also all for creating a list of gun owners. It lets the bad guys know not to rob my house.
No I mean YOUR Avatar. Is that supposed to be someone. I got to thinking after I posted that I sure hope that is not a family member or girlfriend. I may have stepped on it.
 

nerudite

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Re: Re: I agree Planderella

El Guapo said:


Yeah Like Canada! Nobody is "in charge" up there. Its an autonomous collective which takes turns rotating the executive functions to each member in turn.

We can't leave our friendly neighbors to the North out of our cat fight!
Oh god... don't even get me started on the politics up here. Not only are there a bjillion parties, but there isn't too much of a discernable difference between them. I read a book to try to understand them better, but it just got me even more confused. Try asking a Canadian? They don't know either (at least not the dozen or so I've tried to get info from). And if it's all too confusing and you really don't give a crap anymore? Just join the Marijuana Party. At least then you'll be happy (just bring your own munchies).
 

Journeymouse

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Re: I agree Planderella

prudence said:
Until there is a viable multi-party system similar to Great Braitian...
Well. I suppose it works after a fashion.

Short history and UK politics lesson:
Originally, there was a group of individuals called parliament. Then they started settling out into two camps (Royalist and roundhead). This then lead (eventually) to the Whigs (opposed to Charles II) and the Tories (or Conservatives). Then the Whigs became the Liberals, the Labour party was formed, then the Social Democrat Party (SDP), then the Greens. At some point the SDP and Libs joined to be the Lib Dems. There are several splinter groups in there as well, along with minority groups like the monster raving loony party.
The 'Goverment' is the one with the most votes, the 'Opposition' is the second party. Since Labour formed, these two places have been swapped between the Tories and Labour. The other parties and the independent MPs get to say just about anything they like (i.e. what they really think) because they have a snowball's of getting into power. The opposition tends to object to everything the government say just because they think their job is to be disagreeable. Right now, everyone seems to be trying for middle of the road policies.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
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It's Jenna....Britney Spears new girlfriend.

And Planderella??
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
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Re: I agree Planderella

prudence said:
Until there is a viable multi-party system similar to Great Braitian and Germany, nothing will bet done at the federal level. Reps and Dems just draw a line in the sand, there is no incentive, nor need, to cooperate to advance their agenda. You need a system where no single group has a clear majority...
Pru, how's about this for no single group with a clear majority:

Executive Branch: Republican Pres, who lost the popular vote but won the electoral college.

Legislative: Senate, 1 member Democrat majority. House, six member Republican majority.

Judicial: Supreme Court - don't know about y'all, but I've seen a heck of a lot of 5-4 opinions lately. At the Federal Circuit level, there seems to be a fairly even split between those circuits considered "conservative" (e.g. the 4th) and "liberal" (e.g. the 9th).

I just don't see there ever being a viable multi-party system in this country - IMHO, thank God. Again just IMHO, things that really need to get done, do.

And remember, to paraphrase Mark Twain, no man's freedom is secure while the legislature's in session anyway.
 

El Feo

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BKM said:
[BPrudence: This contradicts everything else you said. Why not just eliminate public schools entirely, leaving social darwinism to pick those whose parents suffer enough or are serious enough to educate their children? Public education is such a socialist concept, and the teachers' unions are one of the last powerful bastions of political correctness and mediocrity. Just eliminate it all![/B]
Not to open this kettle of worms again now that we're all back in a happier place, but I saw this online this morning (it's originally from an Andrew Wilson piece in today's Daily Telegraph online):

"Guilt at what [the Victorians] had done made the more foolish among them seek for collectivist solutions, such as the disastrous idea, first mooted in the 1870 Education Act, that the state should control schooling. At that date there was 92 per cent literacy in England. Without compulsory education, you had to learn in order to survive."

This kind of blew me away - 92% literacy without public education? Seriously, can this even be real?
 

BKM

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I would love to see the source of that statistic. Given the text of the message, not sure I believe it :)

I just got back from a happier place :) (Indiana)

95 degrees plus 90% humidity is VERY happy.
 
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