PlannerGirl, duck and cover!
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Jeff
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Yeah, scary thing is that this guy is using a .223 meaning most likely an AR-15. Pretty damn accurate out to about 1,000 yards with just iron sights. I've never shot one with a scope, but I gotta imagine with a Leupold on top you could get pretty deadly.
Only good thing is that a .223 is pretty much a junk round, used by the military so we can pop off 1,000s of rounds at a time while still being cost consious
Once you get out around the 500 yard line that round has lost so much velocity and is blown around so much by the wind that you really need to know what you are doing out at those ranges.
Sadly, the guy is probably a Marine. "We train the world's best marksmen" ya know.
Only good thing is that a .223 is pretty much a junk round, used by the military so we can pop off 1,000s of rounds at a time while still being cost consious
Once you get out around the 500 yard line that round has lost so much velocity and is blown around so much by the wind that you really need to know what you are doing out at those ranges.Sadly, the guy is probably a Marine. "We train the world's best marksmen" ya know.
PlannerGirl
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I am actualy pretty damn freaked-my "dear" ex husband was a marine scout sniper and he had vowd to kill me when i left his abusive life.
i KNOW what kinda sick freak is out there runing around killing folks. though the guy seems to have lost his edge, fewer killings and the last 2 he did not kill.
im watching for a white feather. everything i learned from my ex to avoid being shot im now doing-lol i walk in zig zagy lines like im drunk and its SO annoying.
DC is soooo much fun right now, terrorists, "snipers" west nile and hey we got malaria now too....whheeeeee!
Im keeping me and my wild red hair out of sight for a white *or is that sights?*
i KNOW what kinda sick freak is out there runing around killing folks. though the guy seems to have lost his edge, fewer killings and the last 2 he did not kill.
im watching for a white feather. everything i learned from my ex to avoid being shot im now doing-lol i walk in zig zagy lines like im drunk and its SO annoying.
DC is soooo much fun right now, terrorists, "snipers" west nile and hey we got malaria now too....whheeeeee!
Im keeping me and my wild red hair out of sight for a white *or is that sights?*
PlannerGirl
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lol yes
im an avid reader and everything my ex had in the house i poor'd over-it also helped my "thing" is the geography of terrorism. LONG before it was "cool"
Heck at the AAG meeting i was the only woman not a wife etc in a military geography meeting. all the men in uniforms looked down at the little woman. wonder why i was never added to the e-list...
anyway side note there but yes there is one sick sick man out there-hurting kids is horrible and id like to do things to my myself but pray the cops find him fast
d
im an avid reader and everything my ex had in the house i poor'd over-it also helped my "thing" is the geography of terrorism. LONG before it was "cool"
Heck at the AAG meeting i was the only woman not a wife etc in a military geography meeting. all the men in uniforms looked down at the little woman. wonder why i was never added to the e-list...
anyway side note there but yes there is one sick sick man out there-hurting kids is horrible and id like to do things to my myself but pray the cops find him fast
d
Cardinal
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I'm going to agree with Mike DeVouno. Any military-trained sniper is going to use a .30 cal. The M-16 or AR-15 is just a gun wanna-be military folk use to "look cool." It is not accurate enough, or efficient in a sniper situation. This guy is probably not military-trained, or if so, it is doubtful that he would have had any of the training received by elite groups like snipers, Rangers, Special Forces, etc.
Jeff
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I read this morning that they found a shell casing 140 yards out from where the kid going to school was shot. That isn't even close to sniper range. Hell, that's 60 yards short of the closest range Marines qualify at.
This could be anyone now I think. Someone who never fired a weapon before in their life could hit a target at 140 yards with an AR-15 or M16A2 if the dope on the rifle was remotely close to what it should be.
This could be anyone now I think. Someone who never fired a weapon before in their life could hit a target at 140 yards with an AR-15 or M16A2 if the dope on the rifle was remotely close to what it should be.
el Guapo
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Michael,
I beg to differ. Under even rough conditions with a semi-bull barrel, the M-16 A2b version and match grade ammo are very accurate. I have personally employed that very combination in desert lands against the enemies of my state and his equipment. We used that combo and Charles Daily scopes to shoot thousands of un-exploded submunitions. Those critters can shoot back. And each is the size of a soup can or smaller. After some practice we were shooting them from the back of a Hummer at 100 to 300 meters with good terminal effect. Some smaller submunitions the size of film canisters were shot at 30 meters.
What really scares me is what happens when the same or a newer nut job upgrades to a Barrett .50 Cal and tries the same game?
I beg to differ. Under even rough conditions with a semi-bull barrel, the M-16 A2b version and match grade ammo are very accurate. I have personally employed that very combination in desert lands against the enemies of my state and his equipment. We used that combo and Charles Daily scopes to shoot thousands of un-exploded submunitions. Those critters can shoot back. And each is the size of a soup can or smaller. After some practice we were shooting them from the back of a Hummer at 100 to 300 meters with good terminal effect. Some smaller submunitions the size of film canisters were shot at 30 meters.
What really scares me is what happens when the same or a newer nut job upgrades to a Barrett .50 Cal and tries the same game?
Jeff
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Michael Stumpf said:
Sorry, I forgot to disagree with you on that, and looks like El Guap beat me to it.
I (and most other Marines) could turn your head into a pink mist at 500 yards with that rifle using just iron sights. (Don't know about the other services).
In fact the M16A2 and Ar15 are two of the most accurate weapons known to man, due to the fact that you can make dope adjustments so easily on the weapon.
Snipers int he military, police etc. use the heavier round because they are shooting at distances sometimes around the 1,000 yard range, and the .223 just isn't going to kill anything at that range.
Cardinal
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Mike DeVuono said:
Yeah, in my Army days I spent a lot of time with the M16A2. For close distances, even at 500 meters, it could do a decent job. The Army being far superior to the Marines, I could find a number of grunts that could shoot it well. But at a distance it is no match for the .30 cal, or for El Guapo's .50 cal Baretta. No self-respecting sniper would choose an AR-15.
el Guapo
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Profiler
We all agree on the technical issues. I want to play profiler for a second.
My guess is this guy (maybe a buddy team) is a rural/small town white guy not from DC who is less than 35 years old with a high school education. He/they couldn't get into or were dismissed from the service for less than stellar performance, but not for physical reasons. He/they may have some sort of sexual dysfunction, and is probably a daily Marijuana user, and probable cigarette smoker. He/They feel they got a raw deal in life and have had a series of low pay/low responsibility jobs. Both will be above average in intelligence, and both will have had minor or “stupid” brushed with the law. Possibly the stronger one will have ADHD or be bi-polar. The lesser one will be described by his peers as a follower throughout his life of a strong friend. If it is a buddy team they will have only been friends a few years. I think that like the Anthrax killer, they just felt this was a good time to screw with the nation that didn't live up to their expectations. I bet that both still live at home with a single, older mother, and both work nights at a the same or similar menial jobs. Also, one of them is from a strong religious background.
Now when they capture or kill these guys we’ll see if I was even in the ball park.
We all agree on the technical issues. I want to play profiler for a second.
My guess is this guy (maybe a buddy team) is a rural/small town white guy not from DC who is less than 35 years old with a high school education. He/they couldn't get into or were dismissed from the service for less than stellar performance, but not for physical reasons. He/they may have some sort of sexual dysfunction, and is probably a daily Marijuana user, and probable cigarette smoker. He/They feel they got a raw deal in life and have had a series of low pay/low responsibility jobs. Both will be above average in intelligence, and both will have had minor or “stupid” brushed with the law. Possibly the stronger one will have ADHD or be bi-polar. The lesser one will be described by his peers as a follower throughout his life of a strong friend. If it is a buddy team they will have only been friends a few years. I think that like the Anthrax killer, they just felt this was a good time to screw with the nation that didn't live up to their expectations. I bet that both still live at home with a single, older mother, and both work nights at a the same or similar menial jobs. Also, one of them is from a strong religious background.
Now when they capture or kill these guys we’ll see if I was even in the ball park.
Chet
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The Profile : A Counterpoint
The perp is a middle aged female. She is slightly overweight, most noteably with "bub-eye arms". She has one or more tatoos of a decidedly "butch" nature (the jolly roger, a dog paw print or the like). Chain smoker, probably Pall Malls or the discount brand available at the Cigarette Depot. A College drop out with dual incomplete majors in Civil Engineering an Womens Studies. Discharged from the univiersity's ROTC (Army Corps of Engineers track) program due to a combination of poor math skills, social dysfunction and personal hygene. Hates men. Hates women, especially the Martha Stewart craft store type. Hates high school students with math skills superior to her own.
Yeah, I got you beat on this one, EG...
The perp is a middle aged female. She is slightly overweight, most noteably with "bub-eye arms". She has one or more tatoos of a decidedly "butch" nature (the jolly roger, a dog paw print or the like). Chain smoker, probably Pall Malls or the discount brand available at the Cigarette Depot. A College drop out with dual incomplete majors in Civil Engineering an Womens Studies. Discharged from the univiersity's ROTC (Army Corps of Engineers track) program due to a combination of poor math skills, social dysfunction and personal hygene. Hates men. Hates women, especially the Martha Stewart craft store type. Hates high school students with math skills superior to her own.
Yeah, I got you beat on this one, EG...
Jeff
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Doesn't smoke cigarettes because there are no butts at his perch. I believe this is a middle-aged white guy married with kids (no shootings on the weekend due to family commitments). The note they just found "I am god" portrays someone on a power trip. Someone who tried to get into a positions of "power" or one that "plays god" but he didn't get in or didn't last long. Like the military, medical field maybe?
He's getting very bold. Any idiot with half a brain knows that by attempting to clip a kid outside his school was going to bring about the biggest manhunt outside of the one for Bin Laden.
Could this be a little mimmicking of the "White Feather" ? He's taunting the PD to catch him.
For those who don't know, Carlos Hathcock, a MARINE (not Army) sniper in Vietnam had a very large price on his head. He wore a white feather in his boonie cap to give the NVA a little help in trying to find him.
He doesn't smoke pot, possibly doesn't even drink. These shootings have been occuring in prime hangover time. And if he was a drunk, chances are he would've been pulled over before and the van everyone is looking for would be on record somewhere.
I think he is from the area. The shootings are occuring too frequently for him not to be. And if he was staying in a hotel somone would have noiticed him by now.
He may be unemployed right now, but his family thinks he's in work still. So they have no idea he's out whacking people during the day. Another reason why I think he is from the area. I think he is a family man and his family would notice him gone.
I think he is alone too. It's just to easy to screw up with a partner. And the note "I" am god.
He's getting very bold. Any idiot with half a brain knows that by attempting to clip a kid outside his school was going to bring about the biggest manhunt outside of the one for Bin Laden.
Could this be a little mimmicking of the "White Feather" ? He's taunting the PD to catch him.
For those who don't know, Carlos Hathcock, a MARINE (not Army) sniper in Vietnam had a very large price on his head. He wore a white feather in his boonie cap to give the NVA a little help in trying to find him.
He doesn't smoke pot, possibly doesn't even drink. These shootings have been occuring in prime hangover time. And if he was a drunk, chances are he would've been pulled over before and the van everyone is looking for would be on record somewhere.
I think he is from the area. The shootings are occuring too frequently for him not to be. And if he was staying in a hotel somone would have noiticed him by now.
He may be unemployed right now, but his family thinks he's in work still. So they have no idea he's out whacking people during the day. Another reason why I think he is from the area. I think he is a family man and his family would notice him gone.
I think he is alone too. It's just to easy to screw up with a partner. And the note "I" am god.
PlannerGirl
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Its sick and upsetting as hell. i live here its all thats on the TV, radio and everyones mind
but im headed down to the mall to go explore the city and have lunch with my man
try to take the edge of the post interview jumpyness
let the sniper take a shot at me-he better kill me coz hes hinny would be hunted like a dog in a hen house.
d
but im headed down to the mall to go explore the city and have lunch with my man
try to take the edge of the post interview jumpyness
let the sniper take a shot at me-he better kill me coz hes hinny would be hunted like a dog in a hen house.
d
El Feo
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giff57 said:
I'd wondered about that too, but now don't they think a shooting from Sept 14th might have been done by the same guy? That would seem to be WAY too far in advance for this latest spree to be a cover. Has anybody else heard if they'd connected that earlier shooting to the most recent ones yet?
Cardinal
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God is certainly behind this, every bit as much as when he sent terrorists to punish America by killing thousands of innocent people or when he killed off my favorite begonia. (Sorry, just competing for sickest.) So how long before Pat Robertson or Billy Graham or one of the others says that these latest victims were being punished, or were sacrificed so that 'God' could show how displeased 'he' is with whatever or whoever?
My guess: male in his 20's; likely had some military training but washed out somewhere along the line and is deeply troubled by it; no wife or kids and does not do well with women, who he feels are inferior to men; high school education and not very bright; works a menial job and may be second or third shift; thinks he is better than everybody and blames others or the system for his many failures. Hopefully caught very soon.
My guess: male in his 20's; likely had some military training but washed out somewhere along the line and is deeply troubled by it; no wife or kids and does not do well with women, who he feels are inferior to men; high school education and not very bright; works a menial job and may be second or third shift; thinks he is better than everybody and blames others or the system for his many failures. Hopefully caught very soon.
El Feo
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Anybody seen the latest news?
Any of you armchair snipers care to respond to this? http://www.nydailynews.com/10-09-2002/news/wn_report/story/25572p-24192c.html I didn't know sniping had become a hobby like sport fishing.
el Guapo
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The facts of life.
It has passed beyond a select military veteran few. There are now an abundance of long range specialty sniper shops, sniper web sites and even clubs for sniper 1AB's. Just put sniper in a search engine like Copernic and watch out. I have a civilian former zoning board member that can cut a deck of cards at 1200 yards with a 7mm. It's scarry, but it is also required to keep this nation free. A well armed populace ensures an ill-informed free press which is destined to write one-sided articles on gun issues. It is funny how the press never knows what is going on in middle-America until it bites them in the ass.
It has passed beyond a select military veteran few. There are now an abundance of long range specialty sniper shops, sniper web sites and even clubs for sniper 1AB's. Just put sniper in a search engine like Copernic and watch out. I have a civilian former zoning board member that can cut a deck of cards at 1200 yards with a 7mm. It's scarry, but it is also required to keep this nation free. A well armed populace ensures an ill-informed free press which is destined to write one-sided articles on gun issues. It is funny how the press never knows what is going on in middle-America until it bites them in the ass.
PlannerGirl
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well all these folks with guns are not helping stop the killer and those of us in DC are gettin real damn jumpy
we are TIRED of being scared
we are TIRED of being scared
el Guapo
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I feel your pain.
Danie,
I can understand your fear, however responsible gun owners know that this is the exact wrong time to go sit out on the front porch with their deer rifle thinking they can protect their neighborhood. Then the cops would be chasing down every call from every neighbor that saw a gun. That is wasted time. You can bet the trunks of teacher's cars and other civilians have guns in them now. They know that a armed civilain at the right place may stop the sniper. The cops can't be everywhere. Good gun owners (99%) are just staying out of sight with their guns, but they are all around you.
Not everyone who owns a gun has the same psych profile as your ex-husband. He was an aberation and should be feared.
Danie,
I can understand your fear, however responsible gun owners know that this is the exact wrong time to go sit out on the front porch with their deer rifle thinking they can protect their neighborhood. Then the cops would be chasing down every call from every neighbor that saw a gun. That is wasted time. You can bet the trunks of teacher's cars and other civilians have guns in them now. They know that a armed civilain at the right place may stop the sniper. The cops can't be everywhere. Good gun owners (99%) are just staying out of sight with their guns, but they are all around you.
Not everyone who owns a gun has the same psych profile as your ex-husband. He was an aberation and should be feared.
PlannerGirl
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ya know i have no problem with guns, i grew up reloading my own amo. my whole family is happy NRA members *but not me* i am a damn good shot in my own right. i just dont have any passion to have or play with guns. not to say that those that do cant enjoy it-have at it.
But the gun lobby in this area is sure taking a beating right now
But the gun lobby in this area is sure taking a beating right now
Cardinal
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I am a gun owner, though not a gun fanatic. I don't wholly agree with the NRA's position, but I have a problem with the anti-gun types. When will they realize that banning responsible people from owning guns is not going to stop crime? The criminals WILL find a way to get guns. I am not arguing that armed civilians can or will be a deterrent to armed criminals. But responsible gun ownership in no way harms the rest of the populace.
PlannerGirl
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Glad to know it was not you George. One of my co-workers filled up at the station across the street just before it happend-hes kinda wigged out.
Bunch of us went to a movie down at Courthouse AMC last night *the movie ROCKED* but we all stayed in little bunches and kept an eye on each other.
hell this is DC we are used to killings but not like this-this is not Half street
D
Bunch of us went to a movie down at Courthouse AMC last night *the movie ROCKED* but we all stayed in little bunches and kept an eye on each other.
hell this is DC we are used to killings but not like this-this is not Half street
D
PlannerGirl
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yup odds are hes off some where else play with his beans and fanks gloating over what he did
sick
hes struck all around my part of town but not where i am yet-i hate that yet word
d
sick
hes struck all around my part of town but not where i am yet-i hate that yet word
d
El Feo
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An old coworker drove past the school in Bowie - on the way to drop off her daughter at daycare - about five minutes before that 13-year-old was shot last week.
They're still talking about 2 men in a white van (I thought it was a white cube truck last week?) on all the reports I've seen. And note or no note, that means I'm still not convinced it's a homegrown nut (or nuts).
They're still talking about 2 men in a white van (I thought it was a white cube truck last week?) on all the reports I've seen. And note or no note, that means I'm still not convinced it's a homegrown nut (or nuts).
PlannerGirl
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I dont care if its 2 home grown, other grown or space aliens i want them off the streets
someone is hunting the highest level prey-us
i donno maybe the Anthrax guy got sick of not killing enough folks
someone is hunting the highest level prey-us
i donno maybe the Anthrax guy got sick of not killing enough folks
El Feo
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Everybody wants them off streets. But I definitely care whether or not this is being done by some domestic fruitcake v. some terror cell. That's not to minimize what's happening, either way, but one nutcake, if caught, resolves it. In the alternative that's not necessarily the case, and that would make it even more frightening.
Jeff
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Just read an article in the Philly Inquierer stating that if we had a national gun database this guy would be caught already. Nothing like taking advantage of a nasty situation to throw in some NRA bashing.
A guy is going to shoot multiple people at random for days at a time, yet stealing a gun from a law-abiding citizen so the rounds can't be traced back to him would be to immoral right?
A guy is going to shoot multiple people at random for days at a time, yet stealing a gun from a law-abiding citizen so the rounds can't be traced back to him would be to immoral right?
Tom R
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sniper
Now I have nothing to base this on, but could this person be Al Qeida related? The sniper doesn't seem to meet any of the serial killer profiles - maybe deliberately. He's could truely be a terrorist, not shooting because he gets his jollies, but to terrorize the country, and he's doing a good job at it.
Now I have nothing to base this on, but could this person be Al Qeida related? The sniper doesn't seem to meet any of the serial killer profiles - maybe deliberately. He's could truely be a terrorist, not shooting because he gets his jollies, but to terrorize the country, and he's doing a good job at it.
PlannerGirl
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I would tend to think there would be some poltical target/claim from it and there is not
i have some couter-terrorist friends who have looked into it and dont think its related to terrorist activities
just a home grown dick that likes to hunt the highest prey-people
i wish he would just off himself and save us the trouble
i have some couter-terrorist friends who have looked into it and dont think its related to terrorist activities
just a home grown dick that likes to hunt the highest prey-people
i wish he would just off himself and save us the trouble
El Feo
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Being the paranoid, xenophobic, war-loving conservative that I am (just half-joking - playing to type), I am convinced this is Al Qaeda. I hope I'm wrong, and I probably am. Unlike most terrorist orgs, they don't necessarily claim credit, and if they do it's typically long after the fact (as with the WTC attacks). The reports keep referring to two men (seems more "professional team" and less "isolated kook"), the gas stations seem vaguely symbolic (the whole "oil" thing), the wording on the tarot card was just plain weird ("Dear Mr. Policeman?" Who talks like that? And "I am God" while seemingly sacrilegious, could just mean these guys think they're messengers), and as for staying out of the city and concentrating on the suburbs, well, it is harder to get away in town, which seems too calculated for a nutcase. Anyone else notice this started shortly after Ari Fleischer's "one bullet from one Iraqi citizen would do the job" comments vis a vis Saddam Husein? Plus, I can't shake the idea that the fact all of this happening around D.C., and not on a cross-country path leading away from it, is just too coldly rational and turns these poor folks into a strange mix of political/nonpolitical targets. Maybe I'm reading too much into what little I've heard. Playing armchair counter-terrorist profiler is about the only satisfaction anyone could hope to glean from this dismal series of events. In any event, I hope whoever it is is caught, and soon, and that this never happens again.
Tranplanner
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Yeah, I was thinking this guy could be some sort of environmental zealot - one guy on a lawn tractor, another at a big box mall, and now at gas stations...
Don't know where the kid fits in though.
Don't know where the kid fits in though.
PlannerGirl
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or the woman just sitting on a bench or the old man just trying ot cross the street
there is no pattern
there is no pattern
