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pledge

Floridays

Cyburbian
Messages
769
Points
21
Perhaps this has been a discussion before, and if so, I apologize in advance. BUT! I am furious about this sh**.
If you're gonna live in AMERICA!!!!! (key word here!) then either accept our pledge or get the eff out. This is ridiculous.
"A California atheist told the Supreme Court Wednesday that the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance are unconstitutional and offensive to people who don't believe there is a God. "
I can probably guarantee that if we moved to another country, they're not gonna change their pledge/song/etc.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Those words were only added to the pledge 50 years ago. I think you can still be a patriot without reciting them.
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,388
Points
26
Food for Thought

I usually avoid political threads like the plague, but:
In 1954, Congress after a campaign by the Knights of Columbus, added the words, 'under God,' to the Pledge.
Source
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,240
Points
71
Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't this very issue come up with Madelyn Murray O'Hare about 35 years ago?
Just to play devil's advocate - if it's not considered a national slogan promoting Christianity how do think folks would feel if Congress passed an act changing the words to "One nation under Allah" or One nation under Jahweh/Shiva/Gaia/Thor/Asmodeus etc. - you get the idea....
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,689
Points
53
Maister said:
Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't this very issue come up with Madelyn Murray O'Hare about 35 years ago?
Just to play devil's advocate - if it's not considered a national slogan promoting Christianity how do think folks would feel if Congress passed an act changing the words to "One nation under Allah" or One nation under Jahweh/Shiva/Gaia/Thor/Asmodeus etc. - you get the idea....
You forgot Zarathrustra ;-)
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
People like their 15 minutes of fame and this guy is no different. If you don't like the word then don't say it. Everything is too PC nowadays, and everone is tip toeing around eggshells in order to avoid offending a U.S. country that is too sensitive. If you don't like a pron store, then don't go in. If your fat, don't complain about being fat because of the fast food you just ate. There are alot of things are offensive to people, but petty crap like this just makes me wanna :8: break out into a song about a coyote, a named Jimbo :8:
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,240
Points
71
mendelman said:
You forgot Zarathrustra ;-)
Actually, If you're a Zoroastrian that would be either Ahura Mazda or Angra Manyu....and the sorting hat wanted to put me in Gryffindor...... 8-|
 

kms

Cyburbian
Messages
6,317
Points
36
My problem with this is that the man is mis-using his daughter by filing this suit in her name. Apparently, she doesn't even object to the line about God! I've heard that he says that she stands out by not saying it. Doesn't he think she stands out now, after all the attention he has drawn to her?
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
Its just under "God" not "Jesus" or "Allah." Its generic enough to not endorse a specific religion. No one's forcing kids to say Hail Marys in public schools. Its a often used saying but there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Seabishop said:
Its just under "God" not "Jesus" or "Allah." Its generic enough to not endorse a specific religion. No one's forcing kids to say Hail Marys in public schools. Its a often used saying but there's a difference between freedom of religion and freedom from religion.
I remember in elementary school, the Jehovah's Witness kids would stand out in the hall when we said the pledge.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
Rumpy Tunanator said:
I remember in elementary school, the Jehovah's Witness kids would stand out in the hall when we said the pledge.
They were probably going door to door in the hall trying to spread the good news to their classmates. :d:
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
I think these lawsuits are much ado about nothing. Why make a big stink? Just say the words or don't say them, but why waste your time and sanity fighting about it. I am not a religious man, but I have no objections to the word 'god" being in the pledge or on our money. Nor do I have a problem with public displays of religious symbols during Christmas or Easter, or Hannukah, or (insert your religious holiday). I realize I live in a country of people with different beliefs than my own. I tolerate theirs and I expect them to tolerate mine.

Saying "god" isn't gonna hurt you. I, on occasion, like to recite "The Finn Who Wouldn't Take a Sauna." That doesn't make me Scandinavian.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
Well, if I where this guys boss, I would make sure not to give this guy his pay check. Only because the accrual money that it represents contains the words "In God We Trust" I would not want to further offend him….

I will also make sure not to offend Pepsi by giving them money this summer when their 4 of July cans come out because I have been informed that they will be omitting that section of the Pledge of Allegiance.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,967
Points
49
Seabishop said:
They were probably going door to door in the hall trying to spread the good news to their classmates. :d:
You are not right in the head... I LOVE IT!
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,463
Points
29
From a very, very strict reading-the phrase probably shouldn't be there. I don't particularly like the Lord God Jesus Christ being asked in a public meeting to provide wisdom in deliberations over a use permit for a fast food drive through.

On the other hand, this pledge was added during the Cold War by pressure form some fairly scary politicians for political, not spiritual, reasons. And, as a coworker points out, America should be a country where it is possible to pledge allegiance to the country without being forced (either directly or through uncomfortable silence) to attest to a religious faith

Even as an agnostic/questioner, though, I have to agree with kms and otterpop. What a waste of time. He is using his kid to make a political point.

I would have a different conclusion for, say, that Alabama Justice Moore-that nut should have been canned, but this? What a waste.

.
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
We do the Pledge at the beginning of the Commission meeting. Strikes me as forced patriotism. At one meeting one of our planners did not recite the pledge and the guy next to him admonished him for it.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
I think we need to stop with any lawsuit from this point forward that does any of the following:

1. Tries to ban Flag burning.
2. Tries to eliminate any mention of god from every little thing that the government does
3. Tries to allow prayer in school

The only reason these lawsuits and laws ever come up is to get attention for some group or cause. Kids can pray at home before school, there is no need to force this. If people want to burn the flag because they oppose of governmental policies, that is fine with me. Now along with those lefty views that I hold, I think that this trying to eliminate god from any governmental product, pledge, or building/property is a waste of time and money too. People are not really offended if they see it, they just want to seem like they are offended to bring attention to their cause. If this offends you so much that you need to bring a lawsuit, you have some self-reflection you need to tend to...and while I am at it, legalize gay marriage now it hurts nobody. Well unless you watched the Daily Show on Tuesday...then you could see who it hurts. :)
 
Last edited:
Messages
7,657
Points
29
Repo Man said:
I think we need to stop with any lawsuit from this point forward that does any of the following:

1. Tries to ban Flag burning.
The irony: if you research it, burning the flag is the proper and respectful way to dispose of a flag that has somehow been "dishonored", if I recall correctly.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,852
Points
39
Michele Zone said:
The irony: if you research it, burning the flag is the proper and respectful way to dispose of a flag that has somehow been "dishonored", if I recall correctly.
Yes, it is, in a dignified ceremony. My son and I were involved in a few of these when he was in cub scouts and they were memorable because, although I don't always agree with our politics, I consider myself patriotic, and because it was enlightening, seeing it thru the kids' eyes. They stood still and listened, and learned, something very odd to see little boys do.

As for the pledge, I have always told my son that even though I do not take him to church (but he has been with his grandma on occasion), I expect him to be respectful of those who are religious and to take part.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
Repo Man said:
1. Tries to ban Flag burning.
What if you burn an American Flag afghan (with a lower case “a”).

While this has little to do with the conversation, I do find humor in referencing this. You see, right after 9-11 a local bowling alley was raffling away a donated hand made, American Flag afghan.

Us, 'crazy' planning grad students / hobby bowlers found it all too funny... well at least I did :-S

So anyway, is it ok to burn an American Flag afghan :p
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
H said:
So anyway, is it ok to burn an American Flag afghan :p
Only if it clashes with the pattern on your couch. :p

As a Christian, it's nice to think that our nation is "under God," although, just by looking at what's going on I really start to doubt it. Anyway, although the phrase was added only 50 years ago as a way to seperate ourselves from the "godless Commies," it is only a pledge and no one in this country is forced or truly even coerced recite it.


I like your politics Repo Man
 

B'lieve

Cyburbian
Messages
219
Points
9
Actually, prayer is allowed in schools, as long as it doesn't disrupt instruction, is completely voluntary, isn't misused to get out of doing schoolwork (there are kids who would pull such a stunt, trust me), and isn't led by a government employee. At least that seems to be the (sensible) practice in the schools I've attended (and now taught in). I would have to look up the laws/regulations to reference to be sure if that's the legal policy. Court decisions that I've heard of (such as the one in Texas a few years back about the student-led football game prayers) follow the same vein. And no one is forced to say the pledge, at least in high schools and middle schools. From what I remember, we weren't forced to say it even in elementary school; we just had to stand up and stay respectfully quiet during it.
 
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