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Rant about the Middle East

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030409-111832-7811r

For Tewfic Mishlawi, editor of the English-language Middle East Reporter, the collapse of resistance in Baghdad was "a very sad thing."

"No one regrets Saddam's departure but the war in Iraq is wrong as a whole," Mishlawi said. "The way it happened was wrong: a superpower that ignores all legitimacy, charters and everything."

He asked what right Bush might have to change regimes.

"This pre-emptive policy is wrong and I don't think it will last," he said.

He said he hoped France and Germany would try to restrain Bush's doctrine.

Mishlawi said he was surprised that Iraqis did not resist the coalition forces. He explained that the fear of Saddam's regime and lack of confidence in the coalition forces were some of the reasons.

"Despite that, Iraqis want to see Saddam removed from power and have suffered from his brutal regime, they will resent a foreign power," he said. "If there will be an escalation of popular resistance, I will be extremely happy." Read: "Not enough Americans died in this war to humble them as a nation."

Mishlawi, like the majority of Arabs, fears that Bush's ultimate aim was not to liberate Iraq but establish U.S. hegemony on the region.

"The purpose is to establish Israel as a dominating power in the region on behalf of the U.S.," he said.

The war in Iraq may be almost over but the argument whether it was a war of liberation or occupation war may continue for some time.
Copyright © 2001-2003 United Press International

I for one am sick and tired of the freaking “Arab Press”, CNN included. The Arab press uniformly broadcasts HATE against Americans. Yet the intellectual asses on CNN and ABC are all to ready to apologize for being Americans. They whine and they whimper and they snivel and they ask stupid questions, that if answered could cost American lives. Moreover, today Christian and Wolfe on CNN are going on and on about an American Marine putting a US flag over Saddam’s Statue’s head for all of 20 seconds? WTF is going on in the world when the troops that won the fight can’t do a little victory dance. After all the Geneva Convention took rape and pillaging off the list of options? What is a GI to do?

That same US Marine also hoisted the Iraqi flag. But that gesture got nowhere near the same level of distain and coverage. Hey Amanpour – those where Americans that killed their way into downtown Baghdad and liberated a nation. Should they have hoisted the UN flag? I don’t freaking think so. If anything, they should have lit a French flag on fire and had a poop party! If the French had won the debate these people would be slaves still.

Here is the el Guapo question: Are the majority of Arab people really this freaking stupid that they buy what the "Arab Press" is serving? Do they really buy this stuff? Every Arab I have met in my life ( I have met a bunch of them – about 1000 of them had white handkerchiefs in their hands at the time) except the Kuwaitis seems to believe that we (The US) really go out of our way to persecute them. Do any of you only vote for a candidate if he promises to aid the World-wide Zionist Conspiracy (Hillary excluded)?

What would make these f’ing people happy? A country is free today! The Iraqi people are now in charge of their own destiny. They are now dancing in the streets. Within a year or two there won't be a US military presence in their country. They will be free from oppression, or be responsible for it if oppression comes back.

Another thing Al Jazeera: We have our own oil - We don't need yours. The only people dependent on Middleastern oil are the Europeans and the Japanese. Texas oilmen (read the Appointed President and his posse of Haliburton Boyz) will get far richer if the middle east were to cut off the supply of oil. Controlling the Iraqi oil fields doesn’t do anything for Bush and Cheney’s kid’s trust fund.

The first war (1991) was for our Allies economic health. See what great friends we are? See how they supported us in our war (2001, 2002, 2003...) against terrorism?

(sorry Canada)
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
29
Slightly OT, but in response to criticisms.

Today is not a day to be poking fun or criticizing Canadians contribution to protecting the world from tyrants and injustices. It is the anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge, a 4 day battle in which 3600 Canadians lost their lives and 7600 Canadians were wounded, other nations experienced similar losses. Note, that America had only formally joined the War three days before this battle.

It is said by many that this day is the day that Canada became a nation.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
From what I’ve read, Quebec is very anti-war compared to other provinces. Why? Partially because they watch cable news from France which is decidedly anti-US.

Hopefully the future of a successful, democratic Iraq will convince the Middle Eastern public more than Al Jazira editorials. Sometimes witnessing a higher standard of living can lead other countries to enact changes. I just wonder how to handle other countries like Iran and Syria, who are almost as bad as Iraq was. They haven’t invaded their neighbors but they support terrorism even more than Iraq. Look at the map of the middle east and just about every country could use a “regime change.”
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
34
Seabishop said:
From what I’ve read, Quebec is very anti-war compared to other provinces. Why? Partially because they watch cable news from France which is decidedly anti-US.
Quebec politics/public opinion precipitated crises over conscription in both WWI and WWII. Something about not wanting to get involved in what was seen as "other peoples' " wars.

So, El Guapo - how should America solve the problem that is the Middle East? Democratize the whole region by force?
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
Tranplanner said:

So, El Guapo - how should America solve the problem that is the Middle East? Democratize the whole region by force?
I'm glad you asked Paul. My ideas are simple, like me. :)

We should fire most of the US State Department. Or at least a simple counciling statement calling them "clientcentric" in their permenant record. The state department should be reminded who writes their checks.

We should withdrawal from the UN. We should declare that if you didn't want to help with the war, that is your right as a sovereign nation. However, we also don't have to actively solicit your opinion any longer either. Nations that help are more "relevant" to our future foreign affairs. Some will feel a chill in the air.

We get our troops the hell out of the Middle East, and all other places where they are not welcomed by the host nation, as soon as possible. We offer friendly non-violent nations our aid and friendship. We ignore nations like Syria and Iran until they come around. We don't start anything with them.

When we find that a nation was...say behind the bombing of the Kohbar Towers in Saudi Arabia that killed 19 Americans we don't wait to convict them in a court of law. Instead when the president feels sure they are guilty we bomb a port city of theirs to the ground. We do it without apology either. We don't have to explain ourselves any longer. Pax American.

If some nation screws with our friendly non-violent neighbors, friends or us we knock the crap out them of like we just did Iraq. Moreover, we do it quickly. The pain is immediate and proportiante. However, we do that only after a fair warning.

We consult our allies in all decisions, but we don't let them tie our hands.

If your nation has terrorists in it that you can't control and they affect our security we will take care of them for you. You won't even have to ask.

We support Israel as they work towards peace. We stop the guns and butter when we find they are becoming an obstacle to peace.

We actively kill terrorists and if people in surrounding buildings get hurt or killed, we that is just too damn bad.

We support democratization everywhere with our foreign aid and our willing volunteers.

We only provide weapons aid that is defensive to nations that are our friends and publicly declare they are our friends.

We should actively broadcast the American agenda for the world - openly and honestly. We should have an Arab language, among others, satellite TV station and radio coverage that clearly tells our story and what we are doing and why.

We have a wonderful life that we want to share to those that want it. If you don't want to hear it - turn our tv station off.

We should open back up an American University in every country that wants one. Their people should be able to attend at highly subsidized rates. We should tell our story there to those students.

We should treat the people of the world like adults. Reward their friendship with our friendship. Reward their misdeeds with swift and sure punishment.

We should be true to our word as a nation.

We should quit apologizing for who we are.

We start no fight, but we finish all. :)
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
El Guapo said:

We only provide weapons aid that is defensive to nations that are our friends and publicly declare they are our friends.

. :)
I actually like a lot of your post, El Guapo. I don't think you are always consistent in living up to this menu, but who among us is consistent?

Except for the quoted point-Its economic and political suicide.

The US is the biggest arms dealer in the world-and a lot of those factories are in politically sensitive sunbelt metropolitan areas. Your policy would bankrupt the economy. Heck, nothing else is manufactured or even designed in the US anymore.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
33
I agree wholehearedly with EG except for the part about Isreal. We need to realize we F-ed up in our haste to make reparations for the nazi abominations.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
I agree, except for Isreal, I think when we referred to that land as a "land without people for a people without land" we failed to realize there were over 500,000 people living there.

why don't we pick up our landfills and dump them as punishment?
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,078
Points
33
I have heard a number of Iraqis quoted as pleased to have Saddam's regime toppled, yet at the same time not happy to have a foreign power occupying their country. I wonder if we might have felt the same way if France had decided to liberate us from the British tyrant in 1776. It isn't a stretch for me to see that Iraqis would take pride in their country, and even if they did not like its leadership, be distraught to see its military crushed, its resources bombed, its territory invaded, and its people killed. Still, the British burned Washington in the War of 1812 and they are now great friends. Hopefully, we can do the same with Iraq.
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
We actively kill terrorists and if people in surrounding buildings get hurt or killed, we that is just too damn bad.
And what if you and your family live in the surrounding buildings of some terrorist and while you're at work a bomb falls in your house and kills all your family, but the terrorists that were the target run away. Is that just too damn bad? I'm sure that's the exact frase that would go through your head at the moment.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
33
SkeLeton said:

And what if you and your family live in the surrounding buildings of some terrorist and while you're at work a bomb falls in your house and kills all your family, but the terrorists that were the target run away. Is that just too damn bad? I'm sure that's the exact frase that would go through your head at the moment.
No, actually brick, glass, maybe your wife's femur would be going through your head at that moment.
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
24
Moreover, today Christian and Wolfe on CNN are going on and on about an American Marine putting a US flag over Saddam’s Statue’s head for all of 20 seconds? WTF is going on in the world when the troops that won the fight can’t do a little victory dance.
The Pentagon wants no flag waving it's a pr thing, and a damn good, sound approach. Having said that, the soldier was on ABC last night and said some civilians wanted him to put it up, now that's seems ok , but the Pentagon made it real clear a couple of weeks ago -no flag waving! I think they gave instructions for displaying the rolled up flag, seems intelligent to me. .

Every Arab I have met in my life except the Kuwaitis seems to believe that we (The US) really go out of our way to persecute them.
The Kuwaitis are no exception. Have you watched Kuwaiti parliament -no love for the USA.
As far as Arab's fob in the US, the ones I know are very aware of the state controlled media in their homeland and generally dismiss it as bs. I know a couple of guys who think the jews are running the media for the benefit of the zionist agenda, blah blah -over the years they have faded from this position. One of my good freinds explained to me how in Syria you get all this education when you're young that jews are filthy imperialist, ya know just racist crap. That's real stuff and when you're programmed for years everyday at school to think like that, well we know the results. Massive hatred.

What would make these f’ing people happy?
Seriously, why do you even care? I don't think you really do. In your doctrine you seem to lay some serious nationalistic platforms for dealing with Foreign countries -I can respect that -sort of Buchanan -ESK. Do we really need to make these "f’ing people happy"? Why is that our job?

Another thing Al Jazeera: We have our own oil - We don't need yours
I'm just not sure about this (ignorance on my part) , but we can live without Middle East oil -that's what Venezuela, Colombia and the rest of South America are for. (Im trying to put a smiley face in) Of course there is always the CIS, which is developing transport infrastucture quite rapidly -thanks to Western investment.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
We may not "need" Middle Eastern oil-if we are willing to kiss good bye 15% of our supply (that's the figure I saw somewhere else-not sure of the source). But:

1. The United States' energy purchases do not exist in a vacuum. As EG himslef pointed out somewhere, I believe, European demand for oil is largely met by the Middle East. And, what about China, whose industry provides all of the cheap goodies we buy at our WalMarts. Even if we stop buying their oil, if the Middle Eastm cuts off the infidels, the remaining supplies will still be stressed.

2. Many of the other oil-producing countries are, if anything, even more disfunctional and unstable than the Middle East. The former Soviet "Stans" are all ruled by corrupt dictators and are facing rampant Islamic fundamentalist movements. Venezuela-we all know what is happening in Venezuela. Nigeria-several of the big producers SHUT DOWN their operations because of the corruption and violence.

3. The Middle East still has the largest proven reserves of oil.

4. You really want to rely on the Russians?
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,985
Points
29
The Irish one said:
Seriously, why do you even care? I don't think you really do. In your doctrine you seem to lay some serious nationalistic platforms for dealing with Foreign countries -I can respect that -sort of Buchanan -ESK. Do we really need to make these "f’ing people happy"? Why is that our job?
Thanks Irish one, good question.

I care because happy people are less likely to try to nuke us or fly our planes into our stuff, or kill our diplomats, or torture our POWs. I'd like to see everyone on this freakin planet happy. Really.

As a planet we have the resources to make everyone on earth healthy and happy right now! The propblems of this world are caused by the vast gaps between rich and poor. The answer is not socialism. The answer is democracy -IMO. (note I left out the H)

Show me a Democracy where more than a tiny portion of its people are really starving. Show me a democracy that is at war with another democracy. Show me a democracy that isn't helping its neighbors to some extent. If that means we infect other nations with the virus of democracy to ensure our future then I say lets get to infecting! Our poor are fat and have cable and cell phones. We have the richest poor in the world! The rich poor don't take up arms and are not subject to religious radicalization.

Buchanan-esk - Yep, except without the undelying racial angst. :)
 
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