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Rant: This trendy little SUV hysteria is hypocritical

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Aimed at no one in particular:

[Rant] Ok, I just read another shot at SUVs on Cyburbia. Where is the outrage against home air conditioning, or heating your home above 60F, people with RVs, sport aviation, pleasure motor boating, incandescent light bulbs, old homes with no insulation and crappy windows?

It seems to me that SUV's have become just a trendy little subject to bitch about by those who's economic circumstances preclude ownership. It also smacks a bit of class warfare. You can't seem to stand the fact that Chad and Trixie find your opinion of their lifestyle immaterial.

Overall, it seems to me that there are many people burning much more fuel than SUV owners. I don't hear anyone bitching that their favorite band hauls their shit with 14 18-Wheelers and six busses so a bunch of dope heads can spend a Bangladeshi persons year's wages on a bag of weed, a concert ticket, and t-shirt. Where is your awareness when it comes to your own self-gratification? Where is the outrage against the fuel necessary to haul your butts to your favorite vacation spot this year? Did you fly to Mexico or ride a bike? When in a hotel room do you use the AC more because you ain't paying for it? Give me a freaking break!

Everyone of you that can read this message is one of life's blessed human beings. The fact that you have internet access alone puts you in easily the top third of people on earth economically. You're just bitching about the guy that is slightly richer than you. Nothing more.

So, Unless you are biking or walking everywhere, living in a well insulated hemp home with out AC, growing your own organic chow, and you never ever consume a good God damned drop of oil you're a hypocrite to bitch about SUVs. Sorry, but that is the way I see it.

[/Rant]

Gosh that felt nice. :)
 
Messages
130
Points
6
EG said:
...living in a well insulated hemp home with out AC...
Wouldn't that violate some sort of Uniform Building Code? :)

My biggest problem with oversize SUV's is the possibility of being on the receiving end of one of them in an accident. Someone driving a 6,000 pound Ford Excretion with a massive bushguard on the front would likely grind me and my family into hamburger if they ever plowed into my car.
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
Preach it Brother G!

I'm still not an SUV fan but I agree with almost everything in your rant.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
EG,

I'm with you most of the way too.

as for bikes, i know that mine are not too environmentally friendly.

one carbon fiber bike (plastic) and one painted with imron paint (cynanide makes it so shiny) plus the titanium parts I use, plus the waterbottles, plus the tires are not recyclable, plus I change my cleats and cables frequently.

I also drive to the trail head for mountain biking even though it is only a 30 minute bike ride each way.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
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Messages
17,846
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59
I posted yesterday about the dominance of SUVs on the road in Denver, but it wasn't really a rant. About half the cars on the road in the Denver metro area are SUVs, according to the Colorado DMV. SUV drivers, more so than drivers of regular cars, tend to act as if others on the road don't exist; for instance, merging into traffic without caring if anyine is in the way, or not letting anyone merge near them. Also, it makes seeing the road ahead of you difficult. If an SUV pulls up to your left at a stop, it makes right turns very dangerous.

About the SUV ranters … although I occasionally join them, I wonder why folks complain about SUVs, but not about huge crew cab duallie pickups that obviously never haul sheets of drywall or tow horse trailers. Why isn't Randy Bob subject to criticism of his vehicle, while Chad gets slammed for owning an Xterra? IMHO, drivers of huge pickup trucks tend to be far more aggressive on the road than SUV drivers.

Some claim that folks rant about SUVs because they're jealous; they don't have the means to buy one. I don't know … used SUVs aren't that expensive. Besides, when I bought a new vehicle not too long ago, I could have purchased an SUV. I looked at Land Rovers, Xterras, Pathfinders and 4Runners. However, I didn't get one; I love driving, and in my experience SUVs don't handle as well as conventional cars.
 

Miles Ignatius

Cyburbian
Messages
368
Points
12
Thanks For Sharing!

You're right on all counts but I remain firmly in the anti-SUV camp...as I'm a creature of my surroundings which was so well described by Dan's post....Denver, Colorado. Here, the registrations for those bloody, loathesome hulks are outstripping birth stats.

I think they draw the fire because they're so obvious - the bull in the china shop analogy - as opposed to some more of the more subtle excesses noted in your post. All repulsive; only some are certainly more so than others....
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
Hey, EG, mind if I print copies to hand out to acquaintances who question my SUV purchase?

Couldn't have said it better myself!

I guess it's partly philosophy, partly perception. My sister in law pronounced my CR-V a "cute little car". Well, it is, I guess, when you compare it to her Expedition...
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
One thing at a time, one thing at a time.

I will bitch about more than the SUV, but not everything at once.

Large gas consuming SUV’s are my enemy. I don’t like them. And I will bitch about them and the people who drive as long as I can. :)


“[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous
about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often
lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be
self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors
and communities.”

Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Huston said:
One thing at a time, one thing at a time.

I will bitch about more than the SUV, but not everything at once.

Large gas consuming SUV’s are my enemy. I don’t like them. And I will bitch about them and the people who drive as long as I can. :)


“[ SUV drivers are ] insecure and vain. They are frequently nervous
about their marriages and uncomfortable about parenthood. They often
lack confidence in their driving skills. Above all, they are apt to be
self-centered and self-absorbed, with little interest in their neighbors
and communities.”

Keith Bradsher reporting on SUV automakers' own market research
The only cheap pop psychology slam that quote missed is latent homosexual tendencies and small penile stature. My guess is Keith has big wille and cares about the rainforest. :)
 

SlaveToTheGrind

Cyburbian
Messages
1,244
Points
23
I previously owned an Explorer until I was forced to sell in favor of a, gasp, mini (van) for my wife and two boys. I was neither insecure, unstable in my relationship, lacking in confidence my driving skills (accident free in 17 years of driving), self absorbing....etc. according to Bradsher. How could I not care about my neighbors or community - I'm a planner! Although I will be putting up a fence so I don't have to see my neighbor. All Bradsher is making is generalizations which do not contain much truth.

And I regularly used my SUV for driving where most cars could not go.

Why don't people bitch about mini-vans. Many don't get much better gas mileage.
 

green lizard

Member
Messages
133
Points
6
DRIVE ON DUDE!

It is not just jealousy, some people just
need something to focus on to complain about.
Then they don't have to focus on thier crummy
little reality.

SUV will live and die by the market...
When gas goes through the roof again,
SUV will fade away. Or when Chad relizes that
EVERYONE has one, he will buy the exact
oppisite.

Whatever...........
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,915
Points
52
along with this rant
how about drive up windows, drive up atms?
 
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Dan

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Zoning Goddess said:
My sister in law pronounced my CR-V a "cute little car". .
Honda CRV, huh?

:p


Seriously, I wouldn't put that, or most hybrid SUV/station wagon-like vehicles, in the same class as a big SUV like an Excursion or Tahoe.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
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24
green lizard said:
It is not just jealousy...
????What is there to be jealous of? SUVs are financed at fairly affordable rates. It doesn’t take much buying power to get one.

PS. I really don’t hate all SUV drivers, my wife wants one for Christ sake. Oh well.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
Around these parts SUVs are the cheaper vehicles to purchase and most dually pickups are farm or work related. Suburbans are becoming the most prevalent vehicle in the government housing projects and out of town near the mobile homes. However, it's correct that far too many pickups (especially of the half ton genre) are never used for hauling much of anything.

I think I'm about the loudest opponent of SUVs on this forum and the hypocrite label is like water off a duck's a$$.

Do you live in a heated and a/c home? Yup
Have you lived w/o heating and a/c? Yup (but only in the USMC)
Do you expect to live w/o heating and a/c in the future? Nope
Do you own an automobile? Nope (but Mrs. Runner does)
Are you selling your home and moving to an urban area serviced by public transit? Yup

Do you think that accommodating and feeding SUVs is a major problem? Yup!
Do you think automobiles in general cause problems? Yup
Is that opinion subject to change? Nope
Even if someone calls you names? Smile

Bottom line:
Do you think that ownership of an SUV is predominantly a lifestyle choice more so than some actual need? Yup
Do you believe that this lifestyle choice has a direct effect on others who do not choose that lifestyle? Absolutely!
Do you believe that SUV owners give a $hit about the effect they have on others? Nope ("It's all about me")
If someones lifestyle choice does not effect others (not just yourself) would you care what they do? Nope

Obviously others would answer these questions differently...
 

kms

Cyburbian
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EG, I agree with your thoughts. I've come to realize, though, that I have to get an SUV because I can't compete with them anymore. Driving my car, I can't see around them or through them, and it's becoming a safety issue at intersections and parking spaces. My pet peeve are the soccer moms who can't drive or park them, and don't realize it. I've just come from picking up one of my kids from an activity, and one of these women put me in a bind.

So I may be buying a used Suburban or something like it.

Funny thing, my first car 20 or so years ago was a Scout, then a Jeep, while these women were driving Cavaliers.

At least we don't have AC.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
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2,550
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I think it has to be jealousy. The gas milege on an SUV is similar to a mini-van, pickup, or a bigger car. Anti-SUVers make claims like "They will never take them off road, so why do they need them" Its not a matter of need, it is a matter of personal choice. What do these people care if someone drives a gas guzzler? They aren't paying for the gas.

I like the look of some SUVs like the new VW, the Santa Fe, and the Acura MDX, but I prefer the feel of a car, especially sporty coupes.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
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566
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17
Mini vans are built on car frames so are safer for occupants in both vehicles involved in a collision.

I'm going to go out on a limb here, but I would guess that the fleet fuel consumption average for mini vans is a wee bit better than that of the SUV fleet. But hey, I could be wrong.

Correct it is all about jealousy, just not on this planet.

"They aren't paying for the gas"
Tell that to our folks in Iraq and to the kid having the asthma attack.
But that gets us back to the second to last question in my last post doesn't it... ;)
 

martini

Cyburbian
Messages
679
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19
A-freakin'-men EG! And may I take liberties and use your argument. I have to say that what you posted here is something that I've been trying to come up with for a long time. While I don't like SUV's perse, I still own one(not for long though!), but it is used for its real purpose. I have a much bigger problem with extravagent 3000+ sqft homes and thier associated mess.

What am I getting myself into here? This career choice might be good for nohting but bashing my head against the wall.
 

Repo Man

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There are so many more important things to complain about. It seems like these people just go after targets like SUVs and WalMart because it is easy to sit at home and be an armchair acitvist and whine about the evils of SUV ownership instead of going out into the community and doing some real work to help society.

Looks like Runner is actually living the lifestyle that he preaches about and that is great but he is the exception and not the rule.
 

H

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Repo Man said:
There are so many more important things to complain about. It seems like these people just go after targets like SUVs and WalMart because it is easy to sit at home and be an armchair acitvist and whine about the evils of SUV ownership instead of going out into the community and doing some real work to help society.

Looks like Runner is actually living the lifestyle that he preaches about and that is great but he is the exception and not the rule.
Whether it was intended or not, I take that remark geared to others and myself badly. I complain about both of those items and consider them an important part of society of the directions of it “all”.

It is easy to use familiar items, such as these, as examples.

Same as with the SimCity threads, if you don’t like them, don’t read them.

But don’t bash others for posting. Disagree, but don’t bash.

Ps. and I practice what I preach, and I am active as well.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
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EG now I know why you're AICP

Its not what you know, its what you know about it and how you know it. ;)

Well said, my friend.
 

Suburb Repairman

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First off, I am not a die hard SUV basher. If people want to buy one of these things, that's their perogative. Personally, I can't see myself in a SUV. I prefer sportier cars that are more fun to drive, when I'm not riding my bike. Ya'll are right to talk about the crew cab, long bed, dually, monstosities of trucks that haven't hauled a damn thing EVER! Funny story: I live near San Antonio and saw a low-rider dually truck, talk about pointless!

People like to talk about how SUVs make the roads more dangerous for other cars, which I believe is true to a point. I would like to see headlights mounted lower and come kind of guard to keep SUVs from "running over" smaller cars in a collision. I think that could be done without sacrificing the aggressive look that many SUV owners like so much. To me, a bigger concern are these giant "rednecked-out" trucks with huge lift kits. We really need some regulations limiting the height on these things. Their dangerous to other cars and dangerous to themselves. Their so top-heavy that they risk flipping with the slightest jerk of the wheel.

Also, I really don't think we should be stereotyping SUV drivers. Saying they are all hyper-aggressive soccer-moms or men compensating is not fair, even if it is in fun. I'll admit I'm guilty of this too, so I don't mean to sound hypocritical. Many of the people driving SUVs are no worse than any of us, they just have different priorities in vehicle purchase.
 

H

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EG said:
The only cheap pop psychology slam that quote missed is latent homosexual tendencies and small penile stature. My guess is Keith has big wille and cares about the rainforest. :)

EG,

I just read your remark. Even though I am not really on your side here, I am ROTFLMAO. :)

PS. I still like the quote;)
 

Dan

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Suburb Repairman said:

Also, I really don't think we should be stereotyping SUV drivers. Saying they are all hyper-aggressive soccer-moms or men compensating is not fair, even if it is in fun.
Down in The Town Next Door, just outside of Orlando, working class whites of a rural, Confederate cultural orientation (I'm sorry, but I don't want to get flamed for using the "r word") would often display short phrases across the top of a front pickup truck windshield. A few I remember are "PARTS AND SERVICE", BIG RIG", "FULLY EQUIPPED", "MY OTHER BIG TOOL" and "I AIN'T COMPENSATIN'".

Uhhh ... okay.
 

Zoning Goddess

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Dan said:
Down in The Town Next Door, just outside of Orlando, working class whites of a rural, Confederate cultural orientation (I'm sorry, but I don't want to get flamed for using the "r word") would often display short phrases across the top of a front pickup truck windshield. A few I remember are "PARTS AND SERVICE", BIG RIG", "FULLY EQUIPPED", "MY OTHER BIG TOOL" and "I AIN'T COMPENSATIN'".

Uhhh ... okay.
And don't forget the big "3" in every rear pickup windshield. And I have no inhibitions about saying WG is full of rednecks!
 

Cardinal

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If somebody wantsa to pay the added cost of gas for an SUV or a Farrari, fine. That guy with the Farrari is likely compensating far more than the guy in the SUV as well. Like a previous poster, my concern with the proliferation of SUV's is the relative threat they pose to other motorists. Face it, the majority of people with SUV's not only do not use the capabilities of their vehicle, they do not understand the difference between driving an SUV and a car. That is the biggest danger. As the owner of a Subaru, I wonder where I fit in this.
 

Wulf9

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I'm okay with SUV's if they bump up the CAFE to 28 miles per gallon.

The CAFE is a really good way to achieve a goal and let the market work as well. If an auto company wants to sell a 12 mpg beast, they would have to sell a few 40 mpg vehicles. If you want one, you can buy one. If the auto companies want to sell more, they either have to improve gas mileage (possible) or discount a batch of high mileage cars to compensate.
 

el Guapo

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I think the CAFE standards end up putting too many people in flimsy tin boxes in order to sell one Navigator Deluxe or an H2. To give Dirk Devonshire III the largest rolling passenger vehicle ever made, so his real estate clients will be impressed, 20 college students or poor families get the Reynolds aluminum and Brigs and Stratton 40 mpg coffin. Have you ever seen a Chevy Cavilier after a small accident? Sure it has airbags, that is so the funeral can be open casket. The sensible cars in the middle are fewer in the CAFE regulated market.
 

Wulf9

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That's not the case. What CAFE did was challenge the auto makers to increase mileage for big cars through engineering. Before CAFE, a standard "big" car got 10-12 mpg. Now they regularly get 22+ and it only takes a few tin boxes to compensate. The idea worked quite well.
 

iamme

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485
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How do we make driving safer?

A) Make Tanks (or armored personel carriers, for families of course) mandatory purchases for everyone. So that we can all drive like idiots and not worry about the reprocussions of our actions.

or

B) Restrict the number of vehicles that are both overbuilt and under-utilized through actions like emission standards and gas mileage regulation.

Hmmmmmmm, what do you choose?
 

Belle

Cyburbian
Messages
142
Points
6
I don't like SUVs for most of the reasons already stated.

However, what I dislike more than SUVs is the government's incentives to buy very large SUVs. Businesses can write off most if not all of the costs of buying a large SUV under a loophole created for farming equipment, leading many businesses to buy SUVs solely for passenger car-type use (article ).

This, while the government offers $2000 tax breaks to buyers of hybrid vehicles (to be phased out in the coming years, I believe) and the US is in Iraq at the cost of approximately $1 billion per week. IMHO, I think some of these incentives are out of whack.
 

Wulf9

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22
EG said:
What if it was your family that was in that tin box?
I think you are still missing what I was trying to say. CAFE has more than doubled gas mileage - even for big passenger cars. I think it would do the same for SUV's if applied.

Full size cars now are as big as, much more powerful, and much more fuel efficient than in times past.

It also allows for consumer and manufacturer choice. Consumers can choose a guzzler if they want. Manufacturers just have to compensate. I am glad you can by a mega horsepower sports car because I like that choice.

Not all tin boxes are unsafe. And many people actually choose small cars because they are fun to drive or get exceedinglly high gas mileage. That's another element of choice.

I had a Nissan Maxima a few years ago that went from 0-60 in a little over 7 seconds, handled like a sports car, and got 22-27 mpg. Not bad for a pretty big car. And not a tin box. Prior to that I had a Nissan Sentra SER, which was a tin box but was a gas to drive. It got 25-35 MPG. It was my family car, so my family did drive around in the tin box.
 
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boiker

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EG said:
What if it was your family that was in that tin box?
my family is in the tin box

2001 4-door sunfire

I've got 2 kids, 4 yr old and 6 mo old. It actually, easily accomodates all of us. Granted, I can't take the kids bikes in the back and a weekend and a half of camping stuff, but.. how often is that going to happen and if it does.. i can always rent an SUV big enough to carry all my crap.
 

Runner

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Another family in a "tin box" here.

Fuel consumption is a problem but sheer size is another big (no pun intended) problem.

Having to supersize the built environment to accommodate oversize vehicles is a significant problem as well. Add to this that smaller vehicles (ex. bicycles) and pedestrians can be obscured and themselves have a tough time seeing around the mass of vehicle.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
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25
I don't get IT either

Self gratification - Take the test

I don't have much of a problem with SUV's, then again I am out of the commuting loop and also try to recognize those triggers in my self and in other drivers that fuel those common annoyances about drivers and their vehicles. THough my biggest gripe about SUV's is since there are so many whenever one see's a serious infraction what are they driving? Like the distracted driver attempting to pass a slower moving farm vehicle over a dbl yellow line and having to swerve back into place to avoid a head on? Like I saw last week 2 miles from home?
I personally loathe my area's garbage trucks, leaking a lot of oil on the road pavement that washes into my lake. And lawnmower riders and their lust for acres of green sod.
And people who leave the AC on and open the windows. Folks too lazy to recycle. Folks who expect our public parks to take all of their trash for free. I am also a "stick in the mud" in that I wonder if driving a ATV or waverunner basically in circles for hours can really be all that stimulating?!!
 

NHPlanner

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EG said:
Have you ever seen a Chevy Cavilier after a small accident? Sure it has airbags, that is so the funeral can be open casket. The sensible cars in the middle are fewer in the CAFE regulated market.
I was going to stay out of this thread, until my car, and my wife's car got dissed. We both drive Cavaliers, have a child, and have been through a minor accident with it. No fatalitles, no major damage, and it still gets 30mpg.

I'm all for consumer choice, but agree that the CAFE should continue. The "tin boxes" are not as bad as portrayed.
 

H

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Re: I don't get IT either

Jen said:
I am also a "stick in the mud" in that I wonder if driving a ATV or waverunner basically in circles for hours can really be all that stimulating?!!
AGREED. I grew up around wave runners and I could not bear more than about 10 minutes on the things, and then I only did that very little. B-O-R-I-N-G. Not to mention that they are an incredible nuisance. They swarm the waters and dump gas everywhere. Last weekend I was sitting on the deck of my friends house and this lady drove by the canal on a WR at idle (I think she was looking for manatees) and smoke from the burning fuel was just going everywhere, it was awful. But, heaven forbid she paddle a canoe or kayak.

I don’t know about ATVs, but don’t feel like I’m missing out.

Someone who enjoys WRs this please tell me the attraction. Jet skis I get. There is a skill. But heck my 65-year aunt and 12-year-old cousin can race wave runners. Recently I picked up wind-surfing (a little) – now there is a water sport.

Confession: Although I rented snowmobiles in Utah once on a ski trip and that was kinda fun.
 

el Guapo

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NHPlanner said:
I was going to stay out of this thread, until my car, and my wife's car got dissed. We both drive Cavaliers, have a child, and have been through a minor accident with it. No fatalitles, no major damage, and it still gets 30mpg.

I'm all for consumer choice, but agree that the CAFE should continue. The "tin boxes" are not as bad as portrayed.
Boik,
I'm talking about when your family in the econo box gets creamed by the F-450 Toby Kieth Edition.


NHP,
Ask any paramedic or fire department staffer which car they refuse have their family members drive. After my Dad's accident we talked to many professional accident responders about what they found out there on the roads in real world accident scenes. You don't live through a serious accident in a Cavy. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

You say the tin boxes are not as bad as they are being protrayed. I respectfully disagree. I think we as a society are just used to having a large number of us die each year in the boxes. How else can you explain the cavilier attitude towards road safety in this country? As a nation, we see sacrificing our family, friends and relatives as necessary to keeping our standard of living. Everyone in America that drives should have to pass a piss test and the equivalent of the CDL written test and road test ever other year. We give people a fine and probation for killing someone. Thats BS.

This thread has changed focus a bit. While I in no way desire a huge SUV, I was trying to say that to singel them out for derision was goofy. There are many things other than SUVs that are equally wasteful in reality. But on auto safety, I guess you have to help a crippled family member to do just about everything and change a few folley bags for a few years before you understand that we need to crack down on impaired and careless drivers. We are too tollerant as a society. We need public hangings for the three time DUIs.
 

jordanb

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3,232
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25
The thing about SUVs is that the only real reason why people buy them is to be seen driving them (soccer moms who don't want to "be the sort of person who drives a minivan," for instance). There exists a more practical vehicle for anything someone needs to do, so they're nothing but a status symbol.

With just about every other thing you listed are quality of life items. Some people love to boat, so they spend their money maintaing a boat. They don't buy the boat as a status symbol (or the majority don't, at least). People cool their houses down with AC because they feel more comfortable in the cool air, not to show off how rich they are because they can waste money on air conditioning.

Not only are SUVs just status symbols, but they're also dangerous to everyone else on the road. That's a sure recipie for rightous contempt.
 

kms

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SUV's don't kill people, people kill people. Or careless and thoughtless drivers kill people.

I agree with your soccer mom observation; I've seen it, too. The problem is, these soccer moms don't really know how to handle a large vehicle, and some tend to drive aggressively, in a feminine sort of way :) Not everyone who drives one is a soccer mom, though.

I assure you, my purchase of an SUV won't be for status, but for survival. Well, that's a bit of of a stretch, but I just can't see what's coming at me if an SUV is driving along with me. Not a good feeling.
 

LouisvilleSlugger

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216
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9
Huston said:
EG,

I just read your remark. Even though I am not really on your side here, I am ROTFLMAO. :)

PS. I still like the quote;)
Yeah, me too!!! the rant was funny even though I'm not on that side of the argument. lol.
 

Chet

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jordanb said:
Not only are SUVs just status symbols, but they're also dangerous to everyone else on the road. That's a sure recipie for rightous contempt.
You've never had to drive 6,000 miles a month for your job. But then, I'm guessing your wouldnt drive one out of principle. the again, maybe
you're talking out of your ass and want to get back into that Navigator.

For some of us in northern climates with 'territories' to serve with 2 dozen developments underway that dont slow down for the weather, they become a necessity.

And I hope the day we meet in an intersection, I'm still in mine and you're in your Geo.
 

Wulf9

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You can have bigger vehicles with good gas mileage. That was my point. There's no reason the SUV fleet as a whole could not make 28 mpg. Almost every car maker now has a "cute" SUV that could get better mileage. And the huge things could be bumped up as well. So we could still have the gleaming symbol of conspicuous consumption but with more reasonable gas consumption.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
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24,915
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I agree with most about SUV's
have not seen much comment/opinion about SUV drivers ability in parallel parking or backing up
 

Runner

Cyburbian
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566
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17
Chet said:
For some of us in northern climates with 'territories' to serve with 2 dozen developments underway that dont slow down for the weather, they become a necessity.
OK, given, some persons may require a vehicle capable of off road (work site) all weather travel.

But which end of the spectrum is really the necessity?
(Ford Escape on one end or Ford Excursion or even a Hummer on the other)

If your tools include a briefcase of files/notes, camera, calculator, PDA, phone, and rolled plans, etc my guess is that the lighter end is suitable. (I am ignoring the deplorable tax incentives for large SUV purchases)
 
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