• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, the built environment, planning adjacent topics, and anything else that comes to mind. No ads, no spam, and it's free. It's easy to join!

Segway Article (Back to Original Name!)

Status
Not open for further replies.

green22

Cyburbian
Messages
101
Points
6
segway

I find that having a fold up bike eliminates most of the inconvenience of lugging around a heavey bike on a train, at around $200 US it's cheap too. I'm sure I could beat a segway for speed, especially if they have to ride on the sidewalk.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,943
Points
39
SF Segway Article

From CNN.com

San Francisco bans Segway
Monday, January 20, 2003 Posted: 10:54 AM EST (1554 GMT)

Other California cities are considering banning Segway scooters from their streets.

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) -- With its love of geek chic and congested streets, San Francisco might have been expected to embrace Segway, the environmentally friendly, self-balancing personal vehicle that promises to entice people out of their smog-spewing cars.

Instead, the city on Monday becomes the first large municipality to outlaw the Segway Human Transporter on its sidewalks -- more than a month before the chariot-like vehicles are made available to the public.

The Board of Supervisors acted last month following intense lobbying by Segway LLC in state capitols to change laws to permit the two-wheeled vehicles on sidewalks.

[color=royal blue]Administrator's note (Dan) - snipped off the end of the quoted newspaper article.[/color]
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
SF Ban

How can you ban something you haven't even seen, have no experience with or reliable data? Regulation through fear. This is the sort of thing we should be teaching our elected officials not to do. Some would say, "well, that's San Francisco for ya".
 

CyclingBuddy

Member
Messages
5
Points
0
celebration

Celebration isn't really a city. Its a touristy, fully funded township by Disney wih no real market or industry. It can be tested there, but how will that compare to a real city? And please correct me if I'm wrong, but the residents shop at the super stores off of the highway, accessible only by cars, with no sidewalks? The residents of Kissimee shop at the same place.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,545
Points
25
Re: SF Ban

Budgie said:
How can you ban something you haven't even seen, have no experience with or reliable data? Regulation through fear. This is the sort of thing we should be teaching our elected officials not to do. Some would say, "well, that's San Francisco for ya".

Conversely, how can you approve use of the Segway on the sidewalk when you haven't even seen, have no experience with or reliable data about?

I
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Police Power

Government should not use its police power until a legitimate risk to the public health, safety and welfare exists. Is fear a good reason to legislate? You've also got a little thing called the "Bill of Rights". I can own a Segway. Why can't I use it? At this point San Francisco has no way to adequately answer this question.

Until light vehicles prove to be more dangerous than automobiles, I find it hard to believe that any light vehicle should be completely banned from a public right-of-way.

I've seen people trip over their own shoe laces. These people who trip may bump into or fall over someone else. Do we ban shoe laces?
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,986
Points
31
Re: Police Power

Budgie said:
Government should not use its police power until a legitimate risk to the public health, safety and welfare exists. Is fear a good reason to legislate? You've also got a little thing called the "Bill of Rights". I can own a Segway. Why can't I use it? At this point San Francisco has no way to adequately answer this question.

Until light vehicles prove to be more dangerous than automobiles, I find it hard to believe that any light vehicle should be completely banned from a public right-of-way.

I've seen people trip over their own shoe laces. These people who trip may bump into or fall over someone else. Do we ban shoe laces?

Those arguments of yours could just as easily be used to support large lot developments, SUV’s, nuclear power, 50cal rifles, handguns and concealed carry. All personal favorites of mine. :)
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,545
Points
25
Re: Police Power

Budgie said:
Government should not use its police power until a legitimate risk to the public health, safety and welfare exists. Is fear a good reason to legislate? You've also got a little thing called the "Bill of Rights". I can own a Segway. Why can't I use it? At this point San Francisco has no way to adequately answer this question.

Until light vehicles prove to be more dangerous than automobiles, I find it hard to believe that any light vehicle should be completely banned from a public right-of-way.

I've seen people trip over their own shoe laces. These people who trip may bump into or fall over someone else. Do we ban shoe laces?

There are two types of legislation: fear and reactionary. Almost all legislation comes as a result of something bad happening, or because people fear what might happen (the case with Segways).

There are a lot of things that people own, but cannot use on public property. I can go out and buy a gun, but I can't bring it onto public property and hold target practice. When I was a teenager, I was a skateboarder. In my town you couldn't ride it on the street, because it was a considered a "play thing," and you couldn't use it on the sidewalk because it was a wheeled vehicle. Same with the City of Madison, Wisconsin.

I just think that this push by the Segway people to encourage Cities to pass laws allowing Segways on sidealks is turning Cities off. If we allow Segways on sidewalks, why not motorized scooters like the Honda Spree or Vespas? Most communities don't even allow bikes on sidewalks. Sidewalks are for pedestrians, not vehicular travel.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,589
Points
34
What about Proactive legislation?

It does exist. SF falls in this category, not 'fear' in my opinion. Frankly, I dont want these pieces of crap on my sidewalks either.
 

CyclingBuddy

Member
Messages
5
Points
0
Fear

The only situation I am compassionate towards when it comes to Segways on sidewalks is when it comes to the elderly/disabled. Its hypocritical almost. they are at great risk with these things on the sidewalks, where they need to walk and be assured its safe (thats why most other things are banned from sidewalks as well; bikes, skateboards, rollerblades). Yet if they want to ride one to help get around, they would feel the same fear if they were on the streets dealing with cars. And i wouldn't want to put them in that situation which is more dangerous than their walking on the sidewalks with segways. a car kills and mames easily.

I mean, i wouldn't want to see an 80 year old riding out on the streets with cars on a segway scared to death of the passing cars, and would prefer they be on the sidewalks or some safer avenue. Yet I also don't want to see that same 80 year old have to be frightened or overly cautious by some segway rider passing too close or coming too fast.

any thoughts to help me lean to one side or the other?
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
I fully support the ban of Segways from the sidewalk. Sidewalks work fine for pedestrians and scooters/powered wheelchairs that move at a maximum speed of a person walking. Once the speed picks up wheeled vehicles belong in the street / bike lane. Segways have a maximum speed that is closer to a bicycle so they don't belong on the sidewalk.

Now, on the other hand I think the Segway could be improved for better sales potential. Remember these are marketed in part to lazy people who don't want to walk or ride a bike. With this in mind wouldn't a seated operating position be more desirable? After all if I was a lazy person I might also be overweight and find standing exhausting. While seated I might also like a cup holder for my frosty that I could enjoy while eating my big mac. A power outlet for my cell phone would be handy too that way I could talk on the phone as a diversion from the boring traffic around me. While we are at it a climate controlled cab would be handy too. Oh boy, I think I'm coming up with a sure fire market killer, it needs larger all terrain tires, limited slip differential, and I'll call it the Segway H3! Advertising would depict it traveling off road in an exotic location.

Not.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,986
Points
31
Runner said:
Now, on the other hand I think the Segway could be improved for better sales potential. Remember these are marketed in part to lazy people who don't want to walk or ride a bike. With this in mind wouldn't a seated operating position be more desirable? After all if I was a lazy person I might also be overweight and find standing exhausting. While seated I might also like a cup holder for my frosty that I could enjoy while eating my big mac. A power outlet for my cell phone would be handy too that way I could talk on the phone as a diversion from the boring traffic around me. While we are at it a climate controlled cab would be handy too. Oh boy, I think I'm coming up with a sure fire market killer, it needs larger all terrain tires, limited slip differential, and I'll call it the Segway H3! Advertising would depict it traveling off road in an exotic location.

Not.

I'm calling a Dorris Kerns Goodwin - Technical Time Out.

See this earlier post!


Poof it's gone before it started.
I'm not feeling the buzz. Its the new Yugo. For 5K I can get a used Volvo 245, a bus pass for a year, some running shoes and a nice $500 bicycle. That gives me far more flexibility for my transportation needs. Or I can shell out some serious cash to not walk where I would normally walk. When it gets an alarm, exploding dye packs and Lojack it will be ready for primetime. You know these things are going to be stolen left and right.

It will result in a fatter America, and let's hope with snow tires it gets some Canadians fat too... Can't you see these things carting fat bastards through special Segway drive ups at the Taco Bell or Pizza Hut. They will put drink holders and special dispensers for fries and ketchup on the handlebar.. BK will have a special edition Segway with a bench seat for the lard asses that are too tired to stand up on theirs. Viva la Gyro!

But then again, I'm an optimist!


Nevermind - I'm yanking your chain - I just agree with you. Does Thule have the roof top rack designed to put an Extreme Segway on top of a WRX yet?
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Seattle

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/105429_segway23.shtml

[COLOR=Royal Blue]Moderator's note (bturk): This link has pop ups.[/COLOR]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/23/technology/circuits/23segw.html?pagewanted=1

http://www.newhavenregister.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=6802285&BRD=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=7573&rfi=6

http://www.santacruzsentinel.com/archive/2003/January/24/local/stories/03local.htm

This article mentions the "Celebration Project". By the way, there is a medical center within 2 miles of Celebration, Florida along with other employment opportunities. Remember we're talking about an 11 mile range on one charge and you can rechange at any standard outlet.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...jan28,0,7878147.story?coll=orl-news-headlines

http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/030128/nytu010_1.html

I'm preplexed by the Marya Morris' comment. People don't walk enough as it is, so to what extent is another form a transportation a problem. You can't walk at 12 mph. Most people use their cars to go 1/2 mile to the store.

http://www.bookofseg.com/q13/

Check out the news report.

http://www.local6.com/orlpn/news/stories/news-194267720030129-100141.html

Check out the video of the report.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/osceola/orl-ocomap31013103jan31.story

Here's a Celebration study subjects Blog.

http://www.segwayceleb.com

A great piece of film making.

http://www.aaronsw.com/movies/segway-part1.mov



[color=royal blue]Administrator's note (Dan): Merged several posts into this post, to prevent post padding.

Budgie - twenty lashes with a wet noodle from Dean & Deluca of Leawood Town Center. Please post future trains of thought in one message, rather than in several separate, consecutive messages. The moderators shouldn't have to manually merge messages; the next time this happens, such posts will be deleted.
[/color]
 

CyclingBuddy

Member
Messages
5
Points
0
watch out

see all the people getting out of his way, and he doesn't even have to call out. Looks like its automatically got the right of way and pedestrians are yielding to him!
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
19,539
Points
71
Re: celebration

CyclingBuddy said:
Celebration isn't really a city. Its a touristy, fully funded township by Disney wih no real market or industry. It can be tested there, but how will that compare to a real city? And please correct me if I'm wrong, but the residents shop at the super stores off of the highway, accessible only by cars, with no sidewalks? The residents of Kissimee shop at the same place.

True. Celebration has all those faults, but it is much more thoughtfully designed than the typical loop 'n lollypop subdivisions found in Central Florida. You see more residents in the front yard, and more interaction among them, then in a typical subdivision. There seems to be a stronger sense of community.

Avalon Park, on Orlando's east side, is another New Urban community. It is literally located in the middle of nowhere, and residents have to drive long distances to their jobs or grocery stores; there's only a few restaurants and offices in the development. Avalon Park doesn't have as many of the fine touches as Celebration, such as decorative street signs or elaborate landscaping. What Avalon Park has going for it is middle income development; one can buy a house there for $140,000 or $1,000,000.

Unfortunately, Old Urbanism isn't an option for the majority of homebuyers in Orlando. Older neighborhoods are either gentrified beyond affordability, or very rough "colored quarters," to use the local vernacular.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Seg Rack and Recharging

Apparently, Celebration is exploring the construction of seg racks (bike racks) with plugs to recharge Segways while not in use. I wonder who's picking up the tab for the electricity and how big the tab will be.

In addition, car carriers for transporting segways is on the market. I also read that the transit authority in L.A. allow segways to be transported on trains.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Dowtown Atlanta

http://www.bricklin.com/segwayatlanta.htm

Debate in Oregon
Segway will start delivering to Amazon.com purchasers beginning March 1. Segway's have been sold to people in every state.

http://www.registerguard.com/news/2...egway.0218.html

LA County Transit
LA County Metropolitan Transit Authority is testing Segway use for security and policing. I also understand that LA County MTA is looking at establishing rules to allow Segways on trains. This is multi-mode in action.

http://www.segway.com/aboutus/press.../pr_021103.html



Moderator's Note - Posts consolidated
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,589
Points
34
I wonder if you can get a ticket for segway infractions - SUI - segwaying under the influence?
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,837
Points
26
mwahahahahah.... good one!
As I see it, Segways belong where the bikes belong... it's more or less the same, they ride at the same speed and it sure doesn't belong on the sidewalks, just as the bikes don't belong on the sidewalk; they don't belong on the open road either, mainly because the speed and mass diference with other vehicles is quite a lot. They belong in special roads( or lanes in a car road) designed for such vehicles.

Segways aren't the solution for personal transit, specially if you don't want to pollute. AFAIAK Segways are electric, and I do know that in the US at least a great part of the production of electricity is done in thermoelectric plants (coal, oil, etc) that produce quite a lot of polution (also, because of that, you can't get in the Kyoto protocol, because that would mean that you'll have to leave great parts of the US pitch black. :p)
A good solution would be a car/bike hybrid, you pedal to give an electric engine the impulse so the electric engine can accelerate the car to a normal speed of a regular car. Wouldn't this be falling in the same thing as the Segway, since it has an electric engine? Nope, In this Car-Bike you could charge the batteries for the electric engine while moving. So you wouldn't need to plug it in an outlet to charge it with electricity that was produced in thermoelectric plants.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,986
Points
31
SkeLeton said:
....and I do know that in the US at least a great part of the production of electricity is done in thermoelectric plants (coal, oil, etc) that produce quite a lot of polution (also, because of that, you can't get in the Kyoto protocol, because that would mean that you'll have to leave great parts of the US pitch black. :p...


[fun rant]They must have good weed in Chile...cause Skel your a' trippin'.

We could light the whole place in less than 10 years with breeder reactors pumping electrons across the Western Hemisphere if the eco hippie freaks of the 60's hadn't poisoned the well for nuclear power. Yep, Jane Fonda and friends are responsible for the earth being polluted. There's your irony.

I want a General Dynamics/Avco Lycomings Plutonium-Powered SUV baby! The personalized plate would say "KYOTOSUX"

Good luck with your pedal-power movement. PS - you might consider a math and physics class to determine how inefficient a machine the human body is really. :)
[/fun rant]

I agree - treat them like bikes.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
About Town in Niceville, Florida

Here's a news report (video) of Pam Gotcher, a Segway owner in Niceville, Florida. Her discription of using the Segway for short daily trips is what the device is necessary for. Notice how slow the Segway can go. This is how it will be used on sidewalks with others around. I suppose there are always a few bad apple. But I think the benefits of getting people out of their cars far outweighs any potential Segway pedestrian mishap. Pedestrians and cars have mishaps all the time.

http://www.bookofseg.com/pam/index.html

I got an e-mail from Segway yesterday, so I can arrange payment and schedule training. Now that the early purchasers are receiving their Segway's. It would be nice if there were bikepaths for a mixture of light vehicles. But of course, cars hog the right-of-way and force other vehicles either onto the sidewalk, in peoples yards, or onto inadequate shoulders. Bicycles and Segways are not the menace. It's short sighted to not see that these modes of transportation compliment eachother by creating demand for dedicated paths, curb cuts, bike racks and other amenities.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
SUV ?

Runner said:


"Perspective: Cool gadget, dumb idea"

I think that pretty much sums it up. As I have said before, I am strongly opposed to the SHT being allowed on the sidewalk. It will just be the SUV menace of the pedestrian world.

Can you put an SUV into an elevator at 0 mph? I suppose large people are also SUV's of the sidewalk? Trees are obstructions within the travelway. Have you ever walked into a sign on the sidewalk? Has anyone every run by you on the sidewalk? If and when there are enough Segways in use on the sidewalks to be a legitimate nuisance, separate facilities will be divided out of the right-of-way. Unfortunately, cars take up too much damn space for the rest of us to move around safely.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,069
Points
34
Re: About Town in Niceville, Florida

Budgie said:
Notice how slow the Segway can go. This is how it will be used on sidewalks with others around.

Time for a reality check. People will not go slowly on sidewalks. They will go as fast as they can. Look at how they drive on roads. Do you think they are really going to modify their behaviour so radically once they get on a Segway? Bikes are banned from most sidewalks for much the same reasons as Segways should be banned.

I am not anti-Segway. I don't think they will ever catch on as more than a novelty, but if people want to use them, fine. But they are a motorized vehicle capable of fast (relative to pedestrian) speeds, and should be subject to the same rules of the road as bikes, motorcycles, and cars.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,545
Points
25
Re: SUV ?

If you are required to ride a bike on the road, you should be required to ride a Segway on the road. In most places you can't even ride a skateboard on the sidewalk, why should a Segway be treated differently? The argument that there is no risk is lost on me. Using that argument, I should be able to ride a Honda Spree scooter down the sidewalk as long as I go the same speed as a segway.

I would have no problem with Segways using sidewalks in the manner that bicyclists use the sidewalks. I have seen many bicyclists (myself included) ride on the sidewalk when there are no pedestrians in sight. If a pedestrian comes along, they immediatly get off the sidewalk and onto the road using a driveway approach. Although riding on sidewalks is illegal, this seems to a compromise that the Segway people should agree to instead of shoving foolish legislation down our throats.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Costs vs Benefits

Are the miniscule costs of "potential" injury to a couple of pedestrians (a risk that already exists) equal or greater than the benefits of getting people out of cars?

It would be nice if everyone rode bikes, but they don't. So along comes a new technology that may be (or may not be) more attractive to people than the bicycle and we are busy talking about harming pedestrians. I personally think bicycles have been unfairly banned and as jtfortin points out, people do change their direction and speed when obstacles arise.

What are the benefits? Simply put, replacing a lumbering 2-ton box of steel (traveling at 25 to 40 mph that are used to pick up a roll of toilet paper at the local shop) with an 83 lb light vehicle. Are there any planners out there willing to imagine a different way of doing things. Or are we too busy trying to avoid that 1 in a million chance that one minor negative occurance will happen. Wipe the minutia away from your eyes and envision a future and go for it.

Until Segways are proven unsafe, why assume that they are. The potential benefits far outweigh the negatives. I also noticed that the pedestrian groups oppose Segways on sidewalks while bicycling groups don't want them in bike lanes. HMMM !!! Sounds like a lot of narrow minded protectionist special interests.

What if?
Instead of taking the a-planner typical negative approach to this, let as the question, What if Segways do catch on? Would would be the costs and benefits of widespread use? Let's say, 10% of local (1 to 5 mile) trips are taken by Segway. What would be the outcome? Is this an attractive shift in travel modes? If there are benefits, how can local government support the shift?

WHAT IF?



Mod. Note : What if? What if I merged your posts some, eh?
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,069
Points
34
Are the potential risks to pedestrians significant enought to warrant banning Segways from the sideWALKS? Yes.

What if not just five or ten percent, but 25% of all trips were converted to Segways? I have never argued against allowing them to be used. There is a proper place for them, however, and that is not on the sidewalk.
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
There are just so many issues here...

The $5000 gadget is still a wheeled vehicle and as Michael has stated is capable of bicycle speeds. It belongs with bicycles in the street or bike lane. Never in the history of mankind has the human been capable of always behaving in a safe and prudent manner. Do we really expect history to come to a screeching halt just because God has graced us with a SHT?

Bicycles should not be ridden on the sidewalk even without pedestrians present. Cyclists are safest when they operate on the roadway like other vehicles. Bicyclists are almost six times as likely to be injured riding on the sidewalk against traffic and almost twice as likely while operating on the sidewalk with the flow of roadway traffic as opposed to on the street, with traffic, and following all traffic laws. This may seem counter intuitive but the problems are curb cuts and intersections. At these places bicyclist on the sidewalk conflict with crossing automobiles and the bicyclists lose.

The injuries will not be "miniscule" to persons injured! If we are aware of a known hazard (SHT on sidewalks) and at the same time are aware of a simple solution (SHTs treated like bicycles) then we need to take that action as responsible public servants.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,545
Points
25
I guess I also have a problem with prdestrians having to move out of the way while people cruise by on a Segway. Why should people walking on the sidewalk have to stop and wait for a Segway rider to pass?

I also question whether the communities that allow Segways on the sidewalks will ultimatly have to allow Segway imitators on the sidewalks too. If the Segway becomes popular, there will undoubtably be cheaper imitations that come out. They may not have use the same technology as the Segway, but I can envision some companies coming out with electric or gas powered scooters that look and behave like the Segway. Should those be allowed on sidewalks too? Or are these laws exclusive to Segway?
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
What if?

What if ?????????????
Somebody, start a sentence with "Let's suppose . . . . "

The horseless carriage was a nuisance to those who feared change. Planners should be ready to consider the "what if" scenario.

I'm awaiting the training schedule e-mail.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,069
Points
34
Let's suppose they had allowed the horseless carriage to drive on a sidewalk....
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,986
Points
31
Take the el Guapo Challenge.

I'll bet $100.00 American with the first person to accept my bet that the SHT will be non-event in the world of urban planning and American society over the next five years. I am betting the Segway Human Transport Device (in the form it takes now in February 2003) will have no significant beneficial impact on American society or the urban form. The impact of this device and the results of this bet to be determined by the members of Cyburbia in a 5 working day poll running Feb 25 - 29th, 2008! You the planners of Cyburbia will decide if this gizmo is more flash or substance.

Take the el Guapo Challenge.

Dan - I hope this is legal.

This offer is open until March 17, 2002.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Michael:

I only bring the introduction of the horseless carriage up to show that when a new transportation device is introduced along side other modes, the initial reaction of the existing modes is to confine or ban the other. Of course horseless carriages didn't belong on sidewalks. Where do Segways fit? They are unlike anyother mode out there for a number of reasons. Let it find it's rightful place. In order to find it's rightful place, we'll need to develop a track record. Let's have evidence before we decide.

El Guapo:

First of all, the built environment will not have to make drastic changes to accommodate Segway use. Additional curb cuts (ADA style) at intersections and a few more bike racks should do. Isn't that one of the traits of a successful technology? It doesn't require massive changes in infrastructure to operate. How long did it take the telephone or computer to become widespread?

A 5 year timeline is extremely short. In some communities it takes that long to get development approval. Most comprehensive plans are conceived on a 20-year timeline. I'll take your challenge right now and say that you are right. In 5 years, sure there will be no significant change. The device took over 10 years to develop and over a year for consumer models to trickle into the market place. This is not a sign of failure, but a sign of controlled marketing. The people at Segway are not stupid. They knew full well that misinformed naysayers. The first batch of early adopters will be excellent ambassadors and show how Segway use can melt into our cities. That is if they don't get bashed over the head by regulatory thugs.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,069
Points
34
Budgie said:
Michael:

I only bring the introduction of the horseless carriage up to show that when a new transportation device is introduced along side other modes, the initial reaction of the existing modes is to confine or ban the other. Of course horseless carriages didn't belong on sidewalks. Where do Segways fit? They are unlike anyother mode out there for a number of reasons. Let it find it's rightful place. In order to find it's rightful place, we'll need to develop a track record. Let's have evidence before we decide.

I'm going to continue to disagree on this point. We do have to find its rightful place, but it is also our reponsibility to minimize risk in doing so. A segway is as wide as a bike. It is heavier than a bike. It can travel as fast as a bike, which is several times the speed of a pedestrian. Most sidewalks are 3 or 4 feet wide, although AASHTO now recommends five feet (probably anticipating that Americans will continue to grow more obese because we ride our Segways everywhere instead of walking). The opportunity for segway/pedestrian conflicts is too great, just as it is for bicycle/pedestrian conflicts. Bikes are required to use the streets and to obey the "rules of the road." The same should be true for Segways.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Finding it's rightful place.

Michael:

Have you been on a Segway? Neither have I, but I will soon. Do you know that it has a zero turning radius? Does a bike? Do you know that it remains upright at all times while a rider is on? Do you realize that it has the same footprint as a person. Do you realize that there are 3 different keys that activate different speeds? Limiting sidewalk use to the black "5 mph" key is entirely possible. Do you know that many of the state legislation of Segways require adherence to the pedestrian code and in some cases pedestrians have the right-of-way over Segway users? Do you know that there are very few bike lanes or paths? Do you know that bicycle interst groups are opposed to Segway use on Bike lanes? Everyone is opposed without experiencing it.

It appears to me that your reasoning is based on fear and unrealistic/incomplete comparisons of something you have not experienced. Maybe you are right, but I don't think any of us are in a position to make an educated decision at this point. Let's learn something first.

FYI, no one walks 3 miles to work or the store. They drive cars. Sitting in a car makes you fatter than standing on a Segway and leaning as you turn. If you honestly think that obesity will be made worse due to Segway use, you really need to look around. Obesity is a problem without Segway. Segway's have a recommended 250 lb rider limit. Sedentary lifestyles, unhealthy food choices and physiology are what make people fat.

Originally posted by Michael Stumpf


The opportunity for segway/pedestrian conflicts is too great, just as it is for bicycle/pedestrian conflicts.


Oh, you have a statistic that shows the amount of Segway/Pedestrian conflicts? What is it? Obviously there have been a substantial number of pedestrians hit by Segways. Can you name one?

Transplanner:

Regulating key use would be a matter of local law enforcement, just like riding your bike on the sidewalk or any other violation of local ordinances. Conflicts will occur in any system, but is the trade from automobile trips to Segway or bicycle trips more beneficial that the increase of potential pedestrian conflicts. Again, I don't think that bicycle and Segway comparisons should not be drawn until more is known about the way Segways are used. They are very different technologies.

JTFortin:

At no point did I say that there may be legitimate concerns, what I'm saying is that it is too early to assume that the concerns that exist for bicylces will exist to the same degree for Segways. In fact, I mention to Michael that he may be right, but then again maybe he's wrong. How can you know without data? Do you have ESP? Doesn't something have to be a problem before you fix it? My hope is that car trips are reduced and there is increased demand for dedicated lanes for light vehicles. Short of that, Segways are either going to be on sidewalks or in the street. If they don't belong in either, then make room. Why bicylce groups aren't embracing Segway use is beyond me, because both could use facilities that do not currently exist. As a future Segway owner, I have a right to use the sidewalk based on state law. And once I introduce this mode to my local and regional city officials, they will make up their minds with a far greater understanding than those who have not ridden.
 
Last edited:

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,943
Points
39
Budgie said:


Oh, you have a statistic that shows the amount of Segway/Pedestrian conflicts? What is it? Obviously there have been a substantial number of pedestrians hit by Segways. Can you name one?

He merely said that the opportunity was there for Segway/pedestrian conflicts - and given the track record of bicycle/pedestrian conflicts when both modes use the same infrastructure, that conflict is likely to appear.

Who governs the use of what key? If it's up to the owner, I'm pretty sure I'd be putting in the key that lets me go fastest....after all, I can always slow down when a pedestrian appears, right?

btw - Budgie, please edit your posts rather than making new posts when you want to add something within a short timeframe.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,545
Points
25
Re: Finding it's rightful place.

Budgie said:
It appears to me that your reasoning is based on fear and unrealistic/incomplete comparisons of something you have not experienced. Maybe you are right, but I don't think any of us are in a position to make an educated decision at this point. Let's learn something first.

It seems to me that your reasoning is based on the fact that you will soon have a Segway and want to be able to use it wherever you want. Most people on here are looking at this in an objective manner and are raising legitamate concerns. The one person on here with a Segway doesn't seem to think that these legitimate concerns have any place in the Segway debate and that is ridiculous. Look, I think that people should be able to use their Segways, but they should be limited to roadways and recreational/bicycle trail systems where there is 8-10 feet of travel surface. Allowing a 2' wide vehicle on sidewalks that are 3-4 feet wide is unsafe.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,069
Points
34
Re: Re: Finding it's rightful place.

jtfortin said:

...and recreational/bicycle trail systems where there is 8-10 feet of travel surface.

I wonder how they will be viewed in terms of the very commonly found "use of motorized vehicles is prohibited" rules. I would tend to agree, though, that these wider paths, designed for higher speeds and mixed users, may be appropriate for Segways.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Re: Re: Re: Finding it's rightful place.

Michael Stumpf said:


I wonder how they will be viewed in terms of the very commonly found "use of motorized vehicles is prohibited" rules. I would tend to agree, though, that these wider paths, designed for higher speeds and mixed users, may be appropriate for Segways.

Information about Wisconsin is at the link below.

http://www.segwaychat.com/segway-laws/Wisconsin-Segway.asp
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,837
Points
26
I can't believe this thread goes on and on... It's quite simple, the segway is fast as a bike, so it should go where bikes go; the segway is quite wide (much wider than a normal person) and the sidewalks aren't wide enough to have space for segways and pedestrians.

The solution is simple (but quite expensive), build a bike lane wide enough for 2 way bike and segway traffic on all necesary roads.

Just MHO.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,159
Points
27
SkeLeton said:
I can't believe this thread goes on and on...

I say that to myself every day when I see that new post indicator on. Tires = road. Feet = sidewalk.

It doesn't get any simpler.
 

mcmplans

Cyburbian
Messages
31
Points
2
I was at a college basketball game this weekend and the mascot for one of the teams was riding a Segway around the court during halftime. I guess that he wasn't paying enough attention as he was riding and he took out a cheerleader. Wiped her (and himself) completely out. I don't think that she was seriously injured, but I just thought that this was a perfect example of how pedestrians could be in danger due to lack of attention. Segways do not belong on sidewalks.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,262
Points
30
Changing Minds

I'll be going to training in Chicago on Apr. 5th and receive my Segway the following week. Then I'll be exercising my right to ride it on the sidewalk and street. Others all over the country are doing the same right now. To see how Segway use can change how we think about transportation, visit the link below.

http://www.bookofseg.com/90days/

Adios !!! El Guapo and Dan, you're welcome to a personal demonstration in April. Maybe at the High Noon Saloon in Leavenworth.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top