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she-planners

Cyburbian-ess

Member
Messages
12
Points
1
This thread may have already been discussed in the past, but I really need to vent. We had several customers at our counter the other day, so I popped back there and asked the next (male) customer if I could help him. He approached the counter, looked over at the male INTERN, and asked him, "Is it OK?"

I've been a planning director and have had similar reactions in the past. For example, one visitor at city hall asked to see the Community Development Director. When I emerged from my office, he said, "Oh, I wanted to see the planner."

Humph!

Anyone else have "gender" stories to share???
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
I see it happen in our office too.

I have a similar story - Not gender, but age. My first Community Development Director job was attained at the ripe old age of..... 24. I was hired by an Administrator, but the Council's avegra age - I kid you not - average was was 68.

I had to work extremely hard to prove myself, and some of the 'old timers' had a difficult time being advised by a whipper-snapper.
 

nerudite

Cyburbian
Messages
6,544
Points
30
Just today the Senior Development Officer and I (I'm a Senior Planner) were in a meeting with an architect and a real estate manager. The architect would ask questions, and if I answered he would start interrupting me. If the Senior D.O. (a male) answered the question, he would listen to the whole thing. I was giving him tips to get through the process of redistricting his property... if he didn't get anything out of it, too bad... I'm not repeating it.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
I spent 8 years as a planner in a small (7,000 pop) FL town. We had a LOT of retirees. It was very common for me to be summoned to the counter and have some old fart say "I was expecting a man". I would reply "Maybe you'd feel more comfortable talking to my secretary. His name is Steve". And here would come Steve with his long hair and earring. Always enjoyed that. It also bugged me that all the women were Mrs. John Smith; don't any of them have their own names??
 

mike gurnee

Cyburbian
Messages
3,066
Points
30
Cramped office space, zoning administrator was outside my office in an open area. Fellow came in, she explained the code and the need for a rezoning. He said "I want to talk to the MAN in charge. She brought him in my office, I explained everything the way he was already told, and said the zoing administrator would help him fill out the forms. Then I introduced him Jane. (I don't think he ever came back.)

ZG, according to my 1955 etiquette book, a widow is Mrs. John Smith; a divorcee is Mrs. Mary Smith.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
This has never been a problem in the communities in which I have worked. They do not hire women for professional or management positions.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Ms. Goodwrench? I think not!

I know one area where maybe I'm am just a bit sexist. I won't go to the hassle of explaining a complex automotive problem to a woman working a counter at an auto parts shop or repair place anymore. I have tried being “Mr. ERA – give that little woman working the counter a chance at your ignition problem,” but after the fifth or sixth time of getting blank looks back or the “why are you bothering to explain this to me – can’t you clearly see there are men here” look, I’ll wait for a man to talk to. I have yet to find a single woman working in one of these places that knew the mechanical side well enough to be anything other than a token hire or “counter candy.” I’m sure some women that have serious automotive experience must exist. They are just rare at this stage of our evolution. Don’t bother with the glass hood argument. I’ve heard it.

Now, in the professional world no problemo~! I’m Mr. Sen-sa-tive. But in certain domains, I’m sorry but they ladies have yet to gain a foot-hold. Why the converse is also true. I would starve working for tips at a Hooters. Not that I don’t need a Manzier, its just that they are not an attractive pair.

I think I just violated all the PC laws I could in one post. I guess now the Feminazi’s will cancel my keynote speech on Germaine Greer Day at the Department of Women’s and Gender Studies at DeVry University.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
Re: Ms. Goodwrench? I think not!

. I would starve working for tips at a Hooters. Not that I don’t need a Manzier, its just that they are not an attractive pair.
OMG hot coffee in the nasal passages!
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
females

I've discovered one female intrusion in a male domain. I get a lot of my fishing stuff at Manda's (A last not a first name.) south of Akron. The 30ish female who runs the small fishing gear shop knows more about lures, reels, fish finders etc. than any male I have ever come across in similar circumstances. Its a pleasure to do business with her and to ask important questions like what are the walleyes in Lake Erie hitting this time f year.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
My girlfriend is also a planner and she gets the "Oh, I wanted to see the planner" comment a lot. She has also been in meetings where applicants/developers will shake all the guys hands and not hers and direct questions at male planners.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
My local Honda dealer has an excellent female service rep. I agree, they are few and far between but then, the inner workings of cars just don't fascinate most women.
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
I've had lots of clods assume that I am my boss's secretary. It's even worse when our nitwit of a receptionist makes no effort to correct the assumption.

The most annoying incident involved a guy stopping in my office and asking if I was the chief's secretary. His excuse was that my cube was close to the chief's office so he just assumed... Um, there is a male planner in a cube closer to the chief and did you happen to see the master's degree in planning on my wall? Idiots.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
What's worse is when people tell me "I'd like to speak to the MAN in the office" and I have to reassure them that I am a man. That makes for some awkward hilarity!

My wife used to sub in high schools where teachers would chastize her for taking the elevator thinking she was a student.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
I very often am mistaken for our director's secretary. Fortunatly, it makes him almost as crabby as it does me, so the unfortunate soul is treated to a run down of my degrees and work experience by my boss. Its pretty cool.

When I was in SC, I got "missy"-ed and "Little Girl"-ed a whole lot. As in: "I ain't gonna let no little girl tell me I got to get me a septic tank! Who's in charge here!"

sigh.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
KMateja said:
I
When I was in SC, I got "missy"-ed and "Little Girl"-ed a whole lot. As in: "I ain't gonna let no little girl tell me I got to get me a septic tank! Who's in charge here!"

"Please... somebody get me a nice, big man to tell me how I can build!"

That only dealing with men stuff is kind of gay after a while, aint it? not that there's anything wrong . . .
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Maybe if there were more hotties in our profession guys would want to speak to the chick in the office...just my opinion...going back to my corner now.
 

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
My first planning job was administrator in a county that had only had women and the chair of the planning commission was female and the person that gave approval for septics was female. So everyone was completely comfortable with that.

Then I come to my current job and I am in for a rude awakening! The first big issue is why can't I take shorthand for the meetings, I am the Secretary aren't I?

I had to explain that I was hired as the assistant planner and they had tested me for alot of things during my interview but shorthand was not among them. Heck, I am doing good to type...
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,465
Points
44
I think that women make just as good of planners as men do. Our historic preservation specialist is female, and she does a great job. She is very professional, works hard, and when she speaks people listen. I don't think that she gets looked down on just because she has made it known that she is here to get things done.
 
Messages
5,353
Points
31
I have the unique pleasure of having to deal with both the gender and race issue, especially now that I'm in the private sector.
 

prudence

Cyburbian
Messages
688
Points
20
I guess I have never taken the approach that a woman in a professional environment was qualified or competent. I have met a few women planners that are chemically imbalanced...i.e.-crazy cat people. Those are the ones I generally dismiss ;-)

A bturk explained earlier...my problem is being young in the position that I am in. Our office is quite young comparatively speaking, and bturk and I find ourselves having to overcome that. But that truly is insignificant in having to cope with either gender or race inequities.
 

Seabishop

Cyburbian
Messages
3,838
Points
25
No anti-woman practices here. Our Mayor is actually a take-no-crap kind of woman who drinks from a "Boys I'm Taking Charge Here" mug. The first letter of every word is highlighted.
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
females

What I have seen often, if a male planner puts his foot down, he's assertive. If a female does it she's a b****. It's the same as many professions.
 

SW MI Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,195
Points
26
I am the only female department head for a small rural City, and I was worried when I first started here, being both young and female, about how things were going to go. I feel that the people that I work with and the community respects me and my position.

There are times that I have been called honey, darlin', sweetheart, etc. Most are older people that come in to my office looking for help. I think they would call men "dear" or whatever too. I don't take offense to it at all as I know it's not meant in a derogatory or sexual harrassment sort of way. In fact, one of our councilmembers always calls me sweetheart when he see's me. He's very nice, kind of goofy, and like 90.

It's the outside *professionals* (see Prudence's post) that give me the most problems. I think they try to give me a line of BS that they wouldn't give a male. We've had meetings with them, and they would direct all the questions to our engineer (a 65 yo male) with me sitting right there (knowing I'm planning/zoning). He'd look at them and say "why are you asking me, she's the boss?!" He has four daughters, so he is awesome about that!
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
Being the only planner at my old job, I didn't encounter disrespect towards females that often. I did encounter the "race thing" more, though. Black residents came in and instinctively dealt with the water clerk, who is black. White residents went to me or the town clerk, who are white. Both the town clerk and water clerk shrugged it off as a "Southern thing."
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
I've been asked by men at the counter, "who does the hiring around here?" I got the other female planner when he didn't want to deal with me, and then when he has an engineering question I went and found one of the female plan reviewers.

I also have the age and chest thing hindering me- I cannot count the times I've caught dirty old men trying to sneak a peak at the girls- usually I'll call them on it by putting the map I'm explaining to where their eyes are. They look at me like i do work at Hooters (no, you just see me there a lot because I like beer!)
 

Cyburbian-ess

Member
Messages
12
Points
1
Oh yes, I know the "dirty old man" thing. Unfortunately he was the mayor at the time. I was wearing a (skirt) suit and sitting in my chair at the staff table right before the council meeting started. He sat down next to me and patted my thigh....(picture Boss Hogg and that's who ya get)....
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
Ugh. One of my former supervisors was a dirty old man. Told extremely inappropriate jokes, mildly harrassing, like the time I came in in jeans on a day off and got a comment from him on how nice my ass looked in jeans. ugh.
 

ecofem

Cyburbian
Messages
206
Points
9
When I had the (dis)pleasure of working for a consulting firm, I had the honor of traveling quite a bit with the (old dirty man) Principal of the firm. My favorite memory of my travels was sitting in a car, driving through a distant city... listening to him play "guess the size of the pedestrian's rack" game.....

the only women (few and far between) who have progressed in the company have been the "look pretty and say nothing type."
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
KMateja said:
Ugh. One of my former supervisors was a dirty old man. Told extremely inappropriate jokes, mildly harrassing, like the time I came in in jeans on a day off and got a comment from him on how nice my ass looked in jeans. ugh.
Face it Kel, you are smokin'! ;)
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,837
Points
59
I just got out of a pre-application meeting that was held by the female planner I'm supervising. Something I noticed; even as she spoke, the representatives looked at me. I tried to guide the meeting in a way where she was put into a leadership role. When she spoke, I looked at her, so the reps understood that it was her meeting. When she wasn't sure of something, I just quietly showed her the section of the zoning code. Little things, really, to avoid the "well, there's a guy there, and even though he's not saying much he's in charge" attitude that some might have.
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,550
Points
25
Have any of you noticed if a governmental body treats an attractive applicant better? We had one applicant that came in and I swear, she could have proposed a multi-tenant building with a sewage treatment plant, a fat rendering plant, and a Wal Mart as tenants in a residential district and I think the commission would have approved it.
 

JNL

Cyburbian
Messages
2,449
Points
25
Zoning Goddess said:
the inner workings of cars just don't fascinate most women.
I've been trying to find an introductory automotive course to enroll in but no-one seems to be offering them. Whenever I get anything done on my car I get the mechanic to explain it to me so that I understand what they're doing. In fact, I even helped out last time I had some work done. Being a petite blonde, I get some funny looks, but they're always helpful. I have a car mag on my desk to read at lunch time...

In my workplace, I am the youngest and one of only 6 females out of 45 staff. Most of the employees are middle-aged engineering types, but I haven't had many problems, although I stay away from the cafeteria because of the "blokey" conversations that tend to go on there. And I had one guy give me some stuff to type up but I soon put a stop to that!
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
TexasPlanner said:
I cannot count the times I've caught dirty old men trying to sneak a peak at the girls
Do you have to be old for that?

I mean... most men look at the anatomy of well built females. I know I will. I try and be tasteful and discrete, especially when having a conversation, but hey... I look.

What really irritates me is women who wear some low cut, tight little shirt, then get huffy if they see you looking at the cleavage presented. Same with legs and mini-skirts... Honestly, if you don't want someone looking at your body, don't wear revealing clothes!

I do agree the "nice ass in jeans" comment (as well as the "guess the rack" game) is very inappropriate behavior for work, and I ignore the bodies of female co-workers.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Mastiff said:
I do agree the "nice ass in jeans" comment (as well as the "guess the rack" game) is very inappropriate behavior for work, and I ignore the bodies of female co-workers.
"Guess the Rack" may not be appropriate for work, but I hope nobody will object to my watching the coeds pass a coffee shop window where I play "Bra or No Bra."

It is hard to believe that some guys still have not gotten the message that a professional work environment (or any work environment) is not the place to ogle women or to treat them as anything less than the professionals they are. Even strippers should be treated with respect.
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
Mastiff said:
What really irritates me is women who wear some low cut, tight little shirt, then get huffy if they see you looking at the cleavage presented. Same with legs and mini-skirts... Honestly, if you don't want someone looking at your body, don't wear revealing clothes!
While I believe that I should be able to dress any damn way I please, this reality is exactly why I almost exclusively wear pantsuits at work. Nothing creeped me out more than busting the dirty old man in my office staring at my legs and ass when I started working here and still wore skirts above the knee. I'll keep it covered at work, thanks.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
plannerkat said:
While I believe that I should be able to dress any damn way I please, this reality is exactly why I almost exclusively wear pantsuits at work. Nothing creeped me out more than busting the dirty old man in my office staring at my legs and ass when I started working here and still wore skirts above the knee. I'll keep it covered at work, thanks.
I also believe you should dress any way you want, so we agree.

I suppose my question to you would be, why do women wear revealing clothes? Is it not reasonable to assume men will look at what is being revealed?

Also, would it be different, for you personally, if only suave, handsome men were doing the staring at your legs and ass? If that's true... I see a double standard here!

Note: I don't advocate the lewd comments, any physical contact, or some moron using how a woman was dressed as an absurd defense when accused of date rape.
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
Mastiff said:

I suppose my question to you would be, why do women wear revealing clothes? Is it not reasonable to assume men will look at what is being revealed?

Also, would it be different, for you personally, if only suave, handsome men were doing the staring at your legs and ass? If that's true... I see a double standard here!
I can't speak for why women wear revealing clothes to work, as I never intentionally do so. I can tell you that certain body types wear clothes very differently, so what is be viewed as "revealing" by some may just be how the clothes fit the wearer. Personally, I am rather tall and leggy. The skirt that is knee-length on my 5'3" co-worker is going to be a mini on me and likely will attract attention. I assume that men will look, hence, my preference for pants at work.

I actually get creeped out when anyone stares at my ass (or any other part of my body) in a work setting, handsome or otherwise. I find it very insulting when the ass(ets) rather than the intellect are focused on.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
Mastiff said:

I suppose my question to you would be, why do women wear revealing clothes? Is it not reasonable to assume men will look at what is being revealed?

Also, would it be different, for you personally, if only suave, handsome men were doing the staring at your legs and ass?
I think that attire should be appropriate for their context. If you're out on the town with the girls, revealing clothing is acceptable - you're saying "Hey. look at me, i'm fun and sexy." If you're at work, the message you're trying to get across is a professional one. and it doesn't matter if the ogler is very attractive or no. It's still unacceptable in a professional workplace.
 

Mastiff

Gunfighter
Messages
7,181
Points
30
KMateja said:
I think that attire should be appropriate for their context. If you're out on the town with the girls, revealing clothing is acceptable - you're saying "Hey. look at me, i'm fun and sexy." If you're at work, the message you're trying to get across is a professional one. and it doesn't matter if the ogler is very attractive or no. It's still unacceptable in a professional workplace.
For whom? I agree about a co-worker... but visitors are going to do it. Especially if the women in question dress themselves up as "eye candy". I know, we have one here...
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
I try to dress pretty frumpy for work, i have gotten tired of the looks, comments etc from guys. It took me years to break the men i worked with (public) of "now little missy" or "sugar"

One time a young full of himself lawyer came in my office and as im talking to him i noticed he never looked in my eyes-only down at my chest. I finaly wave my hand infront of his face and introduce him to my chest "hi Mr (blank) this is Mutt and Jeff, now that you have met them, Im up here!"

Needless to say he turned 15 shades of red and scrambled out of my office-and NEVER came back. The developer he worked for called me later asking what i did to him, he was soooo upset and frazzled. I told him and the guy about fell out of his chair laughing. good developer,l bad atty. he was fired.

:)

As far as something looking more...well showing more than wed like it does depend on the body. come summer or thinner winter sweaters i get more looks-shows off the "boys" i try not to but...well they are just there.
 
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