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So What Did You Think ??

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
About the President's Speech....

I appreciated the fact that he didn't beat around the bush (no pun intended).

I can appreciate the fact that he simply said that the threat of violence against the US is there, and we are going to act first before something happens.

I did like the stabs at France and other countries that are against us.
 

NHPlanner

Forums Administrator & Gallery Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,879
Points
38
Stayed away from TV last night. Didn't see it.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
Mike D. said:
I did like the stabs at France and other countries that are against us.
It was subtle in the diplomat-speak, but he did essentially say "thanks now go f- yourselves".

Overall it was good. Bush is always best when someone else writes his words though.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
i saw it

was glad he seemed to get this speach out without sounding TOO hawkish or Tex cowboy. He seemed to step up to the plate and look/sound presidential
 

SGB

Cyburbian
Messages
3,387
Points
25
I remain uneasy at the administration's inability to clearly explain a convincing rationale for a pre-emptive war. I believe this action creates a dangerous precedent for American foreign policy.

I also wonder if the "Bush War II" will be worth the international diplomatic damage that has occurred to date and will likely to worsen.

I don't plan on watching this one unfold on CNN.

Just my $.02 worth, adjusted for inflation.......
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
I missed it. My son and I were at Scouts last night. I saw excerpts on Fox and CNN. He was to the point and very clear. If I were Saddam, I'd be headed to North Korea by now. Asian women want to met Dictators sounds much better than shooting my dog Blondie, marrying Eva at the last minute and swollowing a 9mm.

My guess is that we will Q-Tip his DNA out from a crater about 10-14 months after this is over.

Addressing the pre-emptive question. It's not that at all. We are taking care of old business on our agenda. We are not starting anything new. We gave the international community 12 long years for sanctions and inspections to work. They couldn't solve the problem because they are held captive by "diplomatitis". Its a lot like viagra, just in reverse.
 

Trail Nazi

Cyburbian
Messages
2,779
Points
24
For those of you who did watch it, did you notice that when he stepped up to the podium it looked like he was on a set. Meaning the background looked fake like it was a blue screen set behind him. And he just ran up to the podium - kind of like a SNL sketch. At least that is what it looked like on CNN, I am not sure the other stations looked as fake at first. CNN later zoomed in on him and it did not look so bad.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
yes now thinking back it did look odd but i just marked it up to i dont watch much TV
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
I wanted to watch it, but I decided that it wouldn't be the best bedtime story for my nieces...
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Do you think after Saddam is gone, you will be able to buy pieces of the Saddam paintings?

Kinda like when you could buy pieces of the Berlin Wall.

I bet you if I started printing them on targets and selling them at ranges I could make some big money right now. Any investors?
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
I want the swords

We are talking about creating "gateways" to Fairfield. Maybe the giant arched swords will be available? :) I can see it now-you get off the freeway, pass under the swords of victory, and you're in strip commercial heaven!
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,903
Points
35
I want the bronze heads of Margaret Thatcher and George Bush that supposedly lie at the feet of the big Saddam statue in downtown Baghdad...

Talk about your conversation pieces!
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
17,685
Points
57
Simple, to the point ... except that Bush kept on using the word "peace" over and over and over again. It lit my BS meter somewhat. I don't think Bush ever wanted to find a diplomatic solution to the Iraq problem. I did take some comfort in Tony Blair's speech and this Guardian article, though; it is possible to be a liberal and justify support for the war.

At least military action will bring some closure to an issue that has been left unresolved for the past twelve years.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
PlannerGirl said:
i saw it

was glad he seemed to get this speach out without sounding TOO hawkish or Tex cowboy. He seemed to step up to the plate and look/sound presidential
But he's still saying "nuc-u-ler".
 

Runner

Cyburbian
Messages
566
Points
17
Mike D. said:
About the President's Speech....

I appreciated the fact that he didn't beat around the bush (no pun intended).

I can appreciate the fact that he simply said that the threat of violence against the US is there, and we are going to act first before something happens.

I did like the stabs at France and other countries that are against us.
I agree wholeheartedly with Mike. I had missed it live on TV but watched it later on the internet. Short and to the point.
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
Zoning Goddess said:


But he's still saying "nuc-u-ler".
Man does this ever make me insane! It's "Nu-cle-ar" folks! And I also take grammatical issue with "an historic"...But I digress. This is Dubya we're talking about. We must remember that Jeb is the smart one (shudder).
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
plannerkat said:


Man does this ever make me insane! It's "Nu-cle-ar" folks! And I also take grammatical issue with "an historic"...But I digress. This is Dubya we're talking about. We must remember that Jeb is the smart one (shudder).
Jeb showed his true stupid self with his recent decision to give most of the state library of Florida to a private college.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Not written by me. But still accurate.

I wanted to send an email concerning my thoughts on the on-going Iraqi issue. It is long but worth "the read". First let me say that no one is "pro war". Any conflict is going to result in a number of people dying, both combatants and innocent people. War is devastating, brutal, and costly.

But there a times when force is required. There is a real and ongoing threat from those that wish destroy this country. These people do not care if a target is legitimate or not. They have proven that they are willing to kill innocent people, women, and children in order to advance their "cause".

Some said that an attack on Iraq is a preemptive strike and is Illegal, the actions of an aggressive power. Maybe so in the past, but not today. Any future attack by the enemies of America could utlize weapons of mass destruction (weapons of mass destruction). WMDs such as chemical, biological, or nuclear would result in the deaths of tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands. Therefore, we cannot wait to be attacked first. The losses would be apocalyptic.

Second, many are viewing the US as a rouge cowboy. Willing to throw its weight around for its own benefit (no nation in history has provided the amount of aid that the US has over the past fifty years). To counter this argument I would like to point to two events in history, the Second World War and the end of the Cold War.

Many Europeans say they are concerned with a war because of their history. Twice during the last century they experienced wars of devastating proportions. Their argument is "We know war and the costs are too great". I would suggest to our Euro friends that this thinking is flawed. It is view of war in its aftermath, after the opportunity to prevent it has been lost.

The Second World War should never had occurred. The war was a result of the failure of the Allied Powers to enforce the Treaty of Versailles (the treaty that ended World War I) and the Allied unwillingness to stand up to Hitler. The Treaty of Versailles limited the size of the German Armed Forces, the restrictions included capping the size of the German army to 100,000 men and outlawed a submarine force. If the Treaty was enforced, Hitler would not have had the military power to threaten the countries of Europe.

Another provision was that the Rhineland of Germany was not to have any German military forces in it. When Hitler gave the
order to remilitarize the Rhineland his generals were opposed. They were afraid of what the Allies may do. Hitler said that he would back down if the Allies acted in force. They did not. The Rhineland was remilitarized and Hitler learned that aggression would not be opposed.

50 million people died in WW2, it gave us atomic weapons, concentration camps, and long range missiles. Why? Because the Allies did not enforce an existing treaty and the unwillingness of the Allies to stand up to Hitler's military aggression (not mentioned were the conquests of Austria and Czechoslovakia).

A second lesson from history occurred in the 1980s during the Cold War. President Reagan lead the effort to deploy Perishing
II missiles in Europe to counter the deployment of missiles by the Soviet Union (the communist state that ruled Eastern Europe and a large portion of the world). There were mass protests in Europe and America, people were calling President Reagan a crazy cowboy hopping for war with the Soviet Union, and British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher was accursed of being a lap dog for America (just like Tony Blair is today). The result, the Soviets removed the missiles from Central Europe and serious negotiations began that would result in the reduction of nuclear weapons. More importantly communism fell. Hundreds of millions of people no longer live under brutal communist dictatorships. And I would like to remind everyone that the Soviet Union was an evil empire, communism killed more people than Nazi Germany.

Today we face a crisis. Forces in this world want to destroy America, what it stands for, and kill its people. Iraq is an aggressive military power. Saddam Hussein has ordered the invasion of it neighbor, killed thousands of Iraqi Kurds with poison gas, and supported terrorist organizations. Hussein has developed weapons of mass destruction. The Israelis slowed his development of nuclear weapons when they bombed the Osiraq nuclear power plant in 1981.

Hussein has not honored the current United Nations requirements to disarm. The UN has documented that he has hide weapons from inspectors and hindered the inspectors efforts. Dozens of UN resolutions have been pasted and ignored by Hussein, inspectors have been threatened, and spied on. He has also continued to develop banned weapons as proven by the finding of al-Samoud 2 missiles.

Will the overthrow of Hussein end the threat from Bin Lauden or other terrorists. No. But it will end a source of money and a supplier of weapons for those terrorist networks. It would also deny the networks a nation state where they can hide and operate freely in, just like Afghanistan.

So have we learned our lesson from history? I believe that President Bush has learned that history repeats itself. He is leading the effort to prevent a tyrant from continuing to develop WMDs, support terrorist groups, and oppressing the Iraqi people. The danger is clear. We did not start the fight, we are responding too it. We don't have a choice, they drew first blood.
 

el Guapo

Capitalist
Messages
5,984
Points
29
Another article

...As Wolf Blitzer pointed out: "Over the past two decades, almost every time U.S. military forces have been called into action to risk their lives and limbs, it's been on behalf of Muslims. ... [T]o assist the Afghan mujahadin … during the Soviet invasion in the 1980s, to liberate Kuwait following the Iraqi invasion of 1990, to help Somali Muslims suffering at the hands of a warlord in Mogadishu, to help Muslims first in Bosnia and then in Kosovo who faced a Serb onslaught, and more recently to liberate Afghanistan from its Taliban and Al Qaeda rulers."...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,81450,00.html
 

plannerkat

Cyburbian
Messages
204
Points
9
Zoning Goddess said:


Jeb showed his true stupid self with his recent decision to give most of the state library of Florida to a private college.
I'm still trying to figure out how that was legal. I have a lot of irate librarian friends these days. When, oh when will we be free of the Bushes and their hair-brained ideas???
 

Dan

Dear Leader
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Moderator
Messages
17,685
Points
57
Re: Another article

El Guapo said:
Why the continued anti-Americanism seen throughout the Muslim world, though? Is is just because the US, although technically secular, has a largely Christian population, and that any intervention in a crisis involving Muslim nations is seen as a battle over religion?

The previous essay only confirms what I've always believed regarding the Iraq issue. War cannot be reduced to a conservative or liberal policy; it has to be looked at from a non-partisan standpoint. Reduction of debate to "No blood for oil!", "Bush is trying to finish what his daddy started!", or "Liberals are unpatriotic" represent simplistic, short-minded thinking.

Here's a question I've wanted to post to the masses for some time ... are Muslims generally more religious than Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and other faiths?
 

El Feo

Cyburbian
Messages
674
Points
19
Bush (an allegedly unworldly moron) says "new-q-ler," and dislodges Hussein, and he's supposedly an idiot.

Carter (a freakin' nuclear scientist) says "new-q-ler," and cuddles up to Castro, and he's supposedly a good man.

Go figure.

I'll take the idiot with a functioning moral compass, and give him a pass on elocution, thankyewverymuch.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
My sources tell me the Republican Guard is already surrendering to our boys. Hopefully all the "guys that don't exist" we have in Baghdad right now kill Saddam and his family before a shot is ever fired.

That may shed a whole new light on the war issue.

I bet you'd have Iraqis rejoicing in the streets that the Saddam clan is gone.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
i am getting reports of the same thing from friends, course it could all be miss information but who cares

i hope this thing goes off with a bullet in his head before we start droping bombs
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
surrender

If you were a Shiite conscript, would you lay your life down for Sadaam?

I may have many doubts about the wisdom of the foreign policy, but who in their right mind (outside Michael Parenti) really supports Saddaam?
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
Can someone tell me if Iraq was still allowed to have chemical weapons? The CNN news report stated:

Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has said he believes it is a "theoretical possibility" Iraq could use chemical or biological weapons in the event of a U.S.-led war, but he believes such a scenario is "unlikely." Meanwhile U.S. military officials tell CNN that Iraqi Republican Guard military units south of Baghdad may now have chemical munitions filled with a form of VX nerve agent as well as mustard gas. (Chemical threat)

I thought they had to get rid of those things-
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
Points
34
TexasPlanner said:
Can someone tell me if Iraq was still allowed to have chemical weapons? The CNN news report stated:

Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix has said he believes it is a "theoretical possibility" Iraq could use chemical or biological weapons in the event of a U.S.-led war, but he believes such a scenario is "unlikely." Meanwhile U.S. military officials tell CNN that Iraqi Republican Guard military units south of Baghdad may now have chemical munitions filled with a form of VX nerve agent as well as mustard gas. (Chemical threat)

I thought they had to get rid of those things-
They were required to, and stated that they did, dispose of all stockpiles of chemical and biological agents. However, they could not produce documentation or evidence that the known stockpiles from the early'90s were ever disposed of. Blix and others are referring to the possibility that those stockpiles were undetected by the latest inspections, and if they do exist, could be used.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
TexasPlanner queried
Can someone tell me if Iraq was still allowed to have chemical weapons?
The short answer is NO. This is the key to the whole thing and the "reason" the US is going to war, to get rid of the weapons of mass destruction.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
So is France going to step in if Iraq uses chemical weapons, or are they still "staying out of it"?
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,624
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34
TexasPlanner said:
So is France going to step in if Iraq uses chemical weapons, or are they still "staying out of it"?
Their ambassador to the US made a statement that it would cause them to reevaluate their position. That is would "change things entirely".
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
TexasPlanner said:
So is France going to step in if Iraq uses chemical weapons, or are they still "staying out of it"?
Step in....

I wouldn't put it that way. More like jump on the bandwagon.

Anyone up for some more inspections? Maybe Iraq really doesn't have deadly VX or Sarin or some other nice stuff.

W is just trying to get even for his Daddy, right.

Aren't we doing this so we have a stronghold on the world's oil?


Some of this stuff really sounds absurd now that the naysayers are even saying Saddam is going to hit the boys with chem agents.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
That's what I'm thinking- I mean, you give someone crazy the benefit of the doubt and then they prove you wrong.. then you jump on the bandwagon? I think we should give the french a swift boot to the head when they try to jump on board-
 

Trail Nazi

Cyburbian
Messages
2,779
Points
24
plannerkat said:
We must remember that Jeb is the smart one (shudder).
I don't believe that you could use the words "smart" and Jeb together in a sentence. Neither of them are all that bright.
 

plankton

Cyburbian
Messages
751
Points
21
I consider Dubya to be one of the most unethical, conceited, and dangerous persons of my lifetime. Freedom fries....gimme a freakin break. Turn off Rush for a moment and start thinking for yourselves people. Geez, how can so many people support the idiocy and hypocrisy of this war. We are going to be paying for this one for the rest of our lives. Very sad.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Plankton aka Muggie

PA Senator Arlen Spector was on a local radio program last night and summed it great, I think I mentioned this before.

That an overwhelming majority of the "extreme" anti-war protestors are simply those who don't like Bush. If it wasn't the war, it would've been something else they were bitching and moaning about.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
Bush and the War

I don't think its that simple, Dan. Its very hard for some of us to leave our opinions about the Bush cabal out of it. Their philosophy/strategy is not one I want to see implemented.

More rational skeptics will not mourn the passing of Saddaam. What we do fear is that the Bush cabinet will just start moving down a list. No allies, perpetual war. Iran-North Korea-Cuba-what about China? What about Saudi Arabia? Will we have to invade Pakistan next when Islamic nuts take over their (nuclear-armed) government? When will it stop? What will we do when the rest of the world gets serious about opposing our policies? Will we have to battle Europe next?

Is it the role of one country to remove dictatorships from the world and impose a particular system on the world? Especially when our record of nation-building (except in already advanced areas like Japan and Europe) is highly questionable, when we subvert democratic countries and encourage their replacement with dictatorships. Especially when other countries don't agree that the only system that will be permitted is open market Thatcherism.

I'm being quite alarmist, I know. But some of the ideas in the cabinet's 11-year old war plan ARE alarming. hope I am wrong.
 

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Re: Bush and the War

BKM said:


Is it the role of one country to remove dictatorships from the world and impose a particular system on the world?
When that one country is the sole focus of their terrorist plots, yes it is.

And I think history has shown that our "particular system" is the system desired by most human beings.

I haven't come across many fans of naziism, burkaas, rape rooms, or the KGB have you?
 

Mud Princess

Cyburbian
Messages
4,896
Points
27
Mike D. said:
Plankton aka Muggie

PA Senator Arlen Spector was on a local radio program last night and summed it great, I think I mentioned this before.

That an overwhelming majority of the "extreme" anti-war protestors are simply those who don't like Bush. If it wasn't the war, it would've been something else they were bitching and moaning about.
I've been surprised at how many conservative Republicans -- people who voted for Bush -- don't believe he is doing the right thing.

My father-in-law, a Republican all his life, told me a few days ago that he was "just disgusted" with Bush and the impact of his actions on the economy. My husband was shocked - usually we can't discuss politics with Dad.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
Mud Princess said:


I've been surprised at how many conservative Republicans -- people who voted for Bush -- don't believe he is doing the right thing.

My father-in-law, a Republican all his life, told me a few days ago that he was "just disgusted" with Bush and the impact of his actions on the economy. My husband was shocked - usually we can't discuss politics with Dad.
I agree. I know many people who are normally considered conservative or at least moderate, who are not pleased by the actions of the Bush Administration, economic or foreign policy-related.
 

BKM

Cyburbian
Messages
6,464
Points
29
Conservative?

Well, Newsweek is not generally considered a "liberal" magazine (unless your main source of news is The American Spectator or The Washington Times), and their feature column was rather sobering. Sorry I don't have a link (read it on urbanphoto.org)
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
Originally posted by Michael Stumpf

I agree. I know many people who are normally considered conservative or at least moderate, who are not pleased by the actions of the Bush Administration, economic or foreign policy-related.

I feel just the opposite. Generally I consider myself a Democrat, but lately Bush has made me “Proud to be an American where at least I know Im free….. “ (to cheesily quote Lee Greenwood). We are SO lucky to be free. Why shouldn’t the people of Iraq enjoy the same?
 
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