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Starbucks Peak Parking

OhioPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
304
Points
11
Hello we are considering a variance request to reduce the number of parking spaces for a small center with a Starbucks, ice cream shop and a cafe (6,000 sq ft total) from 1 space per 75 sq ft to 1 space for every 200 square feet. They would have a total of 40 parking spaces.

The big question is what is Starbucks peak parking demand? Does anyone have any idea what a peak parking demand might be for a coffee shop? Or how about an ice cream shop?
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
I guess that depends on the Starbucks... I doubt the one here has any parking at all; but the again I haven't gone there yet.
 

OhioPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
304
Points
11
It's at the edge of a SF Residential neighborhood. It's reusing a vacant gas station. The neighbors are most concerned about having parking on-street in the neighborhood.

I'm sure we can reduce the parking some, but I want to get a feel for how much would be too much.
 

donk

Cyburbian
Messages
6,970
Points
30
From my experience with Tim Hortons, and if it at an auto dependent location, I'd say no variances.

It is not uncommon for cars to queue 10-12 deep down the street to access TH in our area, that is after all of the parking is full and the queue spaces are used.

Check out

173tims1-med.jpg

and

173tim2-med.jpg
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,852
Points
39
That's quite a variance, down to less than 50% of the normally required parking. From what I've seen of the Starbucks around here, I wouldn't recommend it. There has been a running battle for several years in Orlando, between a Starbucks and the adjacent convenience store, which regularly has overflow Starbucks customers towed from its lot.
 

ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
If it is auto dependent, not a chance with the other uses identified. 1 per 200 is a retail ratio, not dining. We have several with the drive throughs and they get long lines. Queing lanes need to be long since orders are not prepared until placed.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
ludes98 said:
If it is auto dependent, not a chance with the other uses identified. 1 per 200 is a retail ratio, not dining. We have several with the drive throughs and they get long lines. Queing lanes need to be long since orders are not prepared until placed.

DING DING DING we have a winner. What is the expected seating capacity? Will they have a drive-thru to minimize the auto dependent grab-n-go's that would otherwise have to park?

Final comment - we would consider this a USE variance and would deny it on its face. Only dimentional variances can be considered under our code. (ex: requesting a 9x17 parking stall where the standard is 10x18).
 

OhioPlanner

Cyburbian
Messages
304
Points
11
Yes there will be a drive thru

They are applying under our Urban Commercial Overlay which allows up to a 50% reduction in parking in areas where pedestrian and bicycle access can be expected.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
OhioPlanner said:
Yes there will be a drive thru

They are applying under our Urban Commercial Overlay which allows up to a 50% reduction in parking in areas where pedestrian and bicycle access can be expected.

So, a permitted reduction is not a variance then. Onlt the reduction requested beyond what is the permitted reduction is the variance. These are some pretty important things to mentio up front when asking the Throbbing Brain for help. ;)
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I am still concerned. Is this a neighborhood where people will be riding their bikes to work or school? Is it pedestrian oriented? At 7 or 8 in the morning, when the most people will want to stop off for coffee on their way to work, will that many customers be cycling, walking, or segwaying to the coffee shop that the demand for parking will not exceed the number of spaces being provided?
 

smarty

Cyburbian
Messages
88
Points
4
One of the EIGHT Starbucks in town converted an A&W to their first drive-thru stores. The place is jammed all the time. Luckily the drive-thru lane is on private property, within a stripmall, so the extra stacking room doesn't effect traffic on public rights-of-way. I would HIGHLY recommend a parking study and view the peak times. It is something we would require anyway with the variance applicantion. The burden of proof is with the applicant, they need to justify the request.

Sounds like a resonable use for an old gas station, but if they have a drive-up lane proposed, that could really impact traffic, just the TH pics posted.

50% reduction in parking seems a little outta whack.
 
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