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Kobayashi

Cyburbian
Messages
92
Points
4
Nothing! I post a few simple questions and i get slammed! I even apologized more than once and my comments are being taken out of context and posted in other threads! Wow i came here for advice and instead i get ridiculed, called an idiot, and verbally abused. I think my Jr. High counselor could probably give me more advice than some of you. What a bitter, vicious group.

Thanks for nothing....
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
Kobayashi,

I didn't participate in the threads where you were catching flak. When I first joined this group I made a few mistakes and was a little snotty to one member. As a result, some of the members here took me to task for it. I was a little miffed, but rolled with it.

In reviewing your posts, you obviously are a young and very opinionated fellow. Your statements were in some cases judgemental, even inflammatory.You are just getting into planning, so you are a little naive about what planning outside of academia is about.

Your comments about public education, for example, I disagree with. I believe public education is the backbone of our society. Public education is one of the best things America has. We institutionalized it long before the majority of the world. I attended private schools in the South from elementary school to high school. Perhaps I gained something from it, but I also did not benefit from attending school with like-minded people. Public education exposes you to a wider spectrum of people.

That said, it is just my opinion. As what you said was your own.

Another lesson I learned is just because someone hear disagrees with you, even harshly, you do not have to respond. This forum is like everywhere else in the world. Sometimes one or the other of us acts inappropriately, or is just damn cranky. Let it go. Everyone is wrong some time. Everyone!

There are lots of great folks here. Some I like more than others. I've had disagreements with a few. We get past it.

Don't take it too personally.

One last thing, something I've learned. After you write your post, read it. Think about it. Before you hit "send", make sure that is what you want all of us to respond to. I've learned to rewrite some of my comments, so they are more to the point and less likely to piss people off.

My two cents.
 
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ludes98

Cyburbian
Messages
1,264
Points
22
otterpop said:
My two cents.
A good two cents too.

Kobayashi, don't have your feelers pinched and run. A thick skin will serve you well in the working world of planning.
 

Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
ludes98 said:
A good two cents too.
I agree, to sling insults isn't exactly the best way to endear yourself with anyone. In time everyone will have forgotten about it, but try coming across a little less harsh, and without calling a lot of us "stupid", and you'll get better responses.
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
Kobayashi,
If you took my comments to you as an attack, I apologize. They were not meant that way but I know that I can be hard to take, especially if you don't know me. I meant no harm. In fact, I had hoped it would help. But obviously it did not.

I think it was wrong for your words to be taken out of a closed thread and posted into another one. I believe you are also owed an apology for that. But it isn't my place to do so since I am not the person who did that to you.

This forum does not seem to have very well developed policies for how to help newcomers settle in comfortably. You are hardly the first person to have a rough time at the start. I, personally, try to cut newcomers some slack for "foot in mouth disease". I can see where you are making your own problems worse but, at this point, I think several people owe you apologies and the general trend of lecturing you about your behavior is only adding insult to injury.

And that is my 2 cents worth, for whatever it's worth.
 

Kobayashi

Cyburbian
Messages
92
Points
4
Thanks for the apology.

BTW, yes i am highly opinionated. I look at both sides of the argument and usually determine where i stand very quickly, it comes from my father. No i'm not blaming my farther but it is a trait of his as well.

I'll give this board another shot, please understand i am a naive college student. I have ALOT to learn, and i'm definatly willing to learn. I've bought two books from amazon link on this board. The first being, "Suburban Nation: The Rise of Sprawl and the Decline of the American Dream". The second being Jane Jacbos famous book " The Death and Life of Great American cities", i've finished the first and i'm halfway through the second. I have added nearly every planning related book to my amazon que and like i said i'm trying to learn as much as possible.

It's also in my nature to say what i think, sometimes it gets me in trouble. It is something i've been trying to control and in "real life" i'm much better at. Yet, on message boards i tend to say things i probably shouldn't. Please don't judge me on the very little of which you have read.



I guess what really got to me was the fact that i apologized yet i was still being chastised.

Habanero said:
I agree, to sling insults isn't exactly the best way to endear yourself with anyone. In time everyone will have forgotten about it, but try coming across a little less harsh, and without calling a lot of us "stupid", and you'll get better responses.

Once again you are taking my words out of context. I said there tends to be alot of stupid people working for local governments in my area. Yet, i also said that NONE of these stupid people are in GIS or the planning departments.

Using the above paragraph as an example this is what happens.

Person X will say
Kobayashi said:
I said there tends to be alot of stupid people working for local governments
then person X will continue to say "Why are you calling us stupid"

Why did person X leave out the rest of my quote? Sounds like something the NYTimes would do :)
 
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Habanero

Cyburbian
Messages
3,241
Points
27
Kobayashi said:
Once again you are taking my words out of context. I said there tends to be alot of stupid people working for local governments in my area. Yet, i also said that NONE of these stupid people are in GIS or the planning departments.

Using the above paragraph as an example this is what happens.

Person X will say then person X will continue to say "Why are you calling us stupid"

Why did person X leave out the rest of my quote? Sounds like something the NYTimes would do :)
I do not believe this could be taken "out of context". I'll post a copy of what you stated to refresh your memory since you are mistaken in what was actually posted and what you "meant".


Kobayashi said:
As i said earlier, my wife works in GIS for a local county. My father also works for another local county as a civil engineer.I have never met dumber people in all my life than the people that work for local governments. I sincerely do not want to be surrounded by stupid people. Is this just a southern thing? It also seems as though there is more financial oppurtunity in the private realm, is this the case? or are salaries nearly the same as the public realm?
You did not state,"the people that I've met working for my local goverment" nor did you preface the statement by "in my area", you made a blanket statement and then stated you didn't wish to be surrounded by stupid people and asked if it was just a southern thing. Get over yourself, your attitude, and stop making excuses for your poor behavior, such as "I get it from my father". I don't care who you get it from, you insulted a great deal of southerns, myself included. Your words were not taken out of context.
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,443
Points
34
Kobayashi said:
Why did person X leave out the rest of my quote? Sounds like something the NYTimes would do :)
First, I was away when the crap hit the fan, but read up tonight. I hope you stay around and learn something here.

Next re-read Chet's post. He did not call "you" stupid, he said your comment was stupid. That is very different.

A little advice, if you are going to be a planner, you will get called stupid, more than once. It will serve you well to throttle back the nerves a little, or you won't be in the field long.
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
Kobayashi said:
Thanks for the apology.
Oh, you're welcome. My tendency to be opinionated means that I pretty routinely find myself at the center of one firestorm of controversy or another. Age has not changed that but it has made me better at coping constructively. But, really, this would die down faster if you would stop pouring more gasoline on the fire. :-D I understand your feelings, I really do. I took a blood bath (or three) when I first arrived and I spent many weeks wondering if I cared to come back. But long experience with such things taught me to cool it in the aftermath of such things. Just as you have legitimate reasons for feeling hurt and angry at the treatment you have recieved, others here have legitimate reason for being offended by some of the things you have said.

I did 20 months of drug withdrawal in the aftermath of really serious medical problems. I went down in flames in a ghastly manner in other forums when I was awake for up to 40 hours straight. I wrote many sincere and heartfelt apologies for trouble I caused and explained my difficult circumstances and that I genuinely meant absolutely no harm, I was simply not in my right mind and things came out of my mouth in the worst possible fashion. What I learned from all that is that screaming at people that, "really, you are NICE if they would just get the h*ll off your back and give you a chance" isn't very effective. :-} It is much more effective if you, personally, will let it go, tone it down, sleep on it and stay the hell away from any controversial topics and post nice, sane, calm comments in non-controversial threads for a week or two. A couple of weeks of that and folks start saying "Gee, she really isn't a rabid fruitcake. Maybe we don't need to buy her a straight jacket for her birthday. Perhaps we could even say 'hi' once in a while without fearing that she will bite our heads off." :-D

You can take my advice on that and save yourself some pain. Or not. No skin off my nose. I already learned it the hard way and I generally do not do it the hard way anymore. ;-) So I am not trying to slap your hand or lecture you or anything of the sort. Just trying to share what I know. :)
 

mike gurnee

Cyburbian
Messages
3,066
Points
31
Kobayashi,
When I read your first post, I felt like slamming you as some of the others did. But then I thought about the people that surround me at work. And I thought back to my first directorship (in a rural, southern county). I have, and sometimes still do, get your point.

Give me a couple of beers :b: :b: or a bad day :-# and I can slam with the best of them. I even used the f word in a committee meeting last month (but the city engineer deserved it).

Hang in there. And don't think about working for a southern county at this stage in your development.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
9,945
Points
40
As the mod that was dealing with the fallout today, I hope that you can understand that I'm only trying to keep things in line with the acceptable use policy that this site has stated.

Personal attacks will not be tolerated. Period. Anyone lashing out directly at another member will be warned first (ie. the yellow card), threads closed second, and if deemed necessary, posting priveledges suspended. This goes for everyone....including us mods and admins. We police each other just as we do other users.

I can understand where you're coming from....it wasn't that long ago I was in a similar position, in school....still learning what this business is all about. Cyburbia is an incredible resource, one that I've been using since 1996. Please, take the advice of some of the "veteran" members of the forums. We want everyone to feel welcome here.
 

Kobayashi

Cyburbian
Messages
92
Points
4
Habanero said:
I do not believe this could be taken "out of context". I'll post a copy of what you stated to refresh your memory since you are mistaken in what was actually posted and what you "meant".




You did not state,"the people that I've met working for my local goverment" nor did you preface the statement by "in my area", you made a blanket statement and then stated you didn't wish to be surrounded by stupid people and asked if it was just a southern thing. Get over yourself, your attitude, and stop making excuses for your poor behavior, such as "I get it from my father". I don't care who you get it from, you insulted a great deal of southerns, myself included. Your words were not taken out of context.
If you can't take my first, second or even my third apology then its fairly obvious you won't take another. So oh well, you are offended as my mother would say... "Sorry Charlie".....
 

boiker

Cyburbian
Messages
3,889
Points
26
giff57 said:
A little advice, if you are going to be a planner, you will get called stupid, more than once. It will serve you well to throttle back the nerves a little, or you won't be in the field long.
in addition, you will get called a b@st@rd, a bleeper, and an @sshole. You will be accused of harrasing people, taking bribes and gifts, being someow connected to a grand politcal scheme to eliminate all property rights so that totalarian control is achieved.

You'll learn to say.........."meh"

I think that you should stick around and participate. Choose your words wisely, state fact based opinon. Again, that's what you'll learn to do as a planner.

Everyone has had an evolution on this board since their first post. I re-read some of my earlier posts and wonder..who was that greenhorn posting with my handle?
Not that I think I offended anyone, but my posts obviously showed a lack of experience working in the real world..where money, politics, and public opinion often dictate planning...even if it isn't good planning.
 
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Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
1) It is hard for you to claim things were taken out of context when you clearly had to context for the debate at hand. If you do not give supporting reasining for your inflamatory statements, I need not give my supporting evidnecne that they are "stupid". Your conduct from the moment you arrived Mr. Kobayashi, amounts to what forums call being a "troll". Using inflamatory statements - or opinions as you would call them - to incite reaction is not tolersable. Trolling will always get you in trouble here, and I too have been guilty of it.

2) Forum etiquette is to create a new threa to "introduce yourself" to the forum members before actively posting. Perhaps you should take a step back, start a new thread, and tell us a little about yourself. There are many active cyburbanites that fell into the trap you did yesterday, and they seem to have recovered from their cyber-pile-on and are great participants, even when disagreements arise.

3) Lets use the cyburbia forum to thicken your skin a bit, or as Giff alluded to, you wont make it as a planner.
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
Alright. If I might make a suggestion. Everyone, let us just let this go. Close the thread. Everyone, just walk away. Avoid eye contact. Let this pass and let Kobayashi have a "do over."
 

jordanb

Cyburbian
Messages
3,232
Points
25
Kobayashi -- There are a ton of people on this board with hair-trigger tempers and the ability to hold incredible grudges. You just have to learn to ignore them when they act out of line. Of course they're obnoxious, but most of them have tenure so you can hardly hope to do anything about them.

Secondly, just because they act out of line doesn't really mean you should do it in turn. You've got some, shall we say... unconventional? opinions that are bound to grate on people, and it'd be best to avoid presenting them in such an adversarial fashion.

This is a great website for information, and it can be fun if you're willing to play along, but like someone else said, you need to grow a thick skin. And not just for this site. ;-)
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,443
Points
34
otterpop said:
Alright. If I might make a suggestion. Everyone, let us just let this go. Close the thread. Everyone, just walk away. Avoid eye contact. Let this pass and let Kobayashi have a "do over."
I agree...thread closed
 
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