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Cyburbans 🧐 The Allegedly NEVERENDING Budgie Feels Sorry for Himself Thread

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To Budgie and RichmondJake: It takes two to make a relationship work. That has been a very hard thing for me to swallow. You cannot "make" someone love you.

My marriage is the only thing in my life I haven't "succeeded" at. I have no regrets. I married for love and I have had a rich life. But, on a good day, I am 4th on his list. I made him the center of my world for a long time -- and my life was empty because he was never there. Ironically, he tells me I will be a hard act to follow and he will miss sleeping with me. Someone in Cyburbia had a quote for a while: No matter how hot she is, someone, somewhere is tired of putting up with her sh*t. I think that would sum up my husband's view of our relationship.

I am a die hard optimist and a hopeless romantic. I am the one who decided to end it (it has something to do with his conclusion that I was a selfish bitch for putting my physical survival over shortening his commute by a mile a or two) but I would be willing to work it out. He was relieved when I finally told him "I just don't want to do this anymore." He is more eager to be outta here than I am, in some ways. But I consider it a private matter and I don't really want to dig in the dirt in public. Just saying: a relationship takes two. A battle only takes one (ask Poland -- they didn't want war when Hitler invaded).
 

BKM

Cyburbian
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As a committed solitary anti-social curmudgeon, I am not one to be giving much advice. So, I would just say best of luck to you, Budgie-and you also, Michelle.
 
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BKM, don't take this wrong: I don't need sympathy or well-wishes. And "It is incredible how 'lucky' hard working, well-educated, etc people are." My future's so bright, I gotta wear shades. The biggest fly in my ointment is my inability to line up "coffee" with some local planner who apparently doesn't "do" e-mail. (And, no, that isn't a come-on. "Networking".);)
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
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How the hell did I miss this thread for 4 months???? Sorry Budgie.

Well if APA can have GALIP I suggest we start the DPA [divorced planners association]. The annual confernence mixers could be fun. :)
 

Rem

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Wow RichmondJake that is one bitter pill. I join the others in saying I hope this works out well for you. Bad luck if you don't want it MZ - I wish you well too.
 
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Rem said:
Wow RichmondJake that is one bitter pill. I join the others in saying I hope this works out well for you. Bad luck if you don't want it MZ - I wish you well too.
Yeah, I feel for RJ too. And that is part of why I opened my big fat mouth. You're sweet Rem (and BKM too), but I am really beginning to regret mentioning it because it seems to have given people the wrong impression: Condolences really are not in order.

For nearly a year, I had the following quote in the signature block of my e-mail:
"Experience is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you" -- Aldous Huxley.

I am not one to carry a lot of emotional baggage. I like to travel light in my journey through life. And I am who and what I choose to be. A friend taught me that, when I was able to be there for her during a crisis because I had survived something similar, years before. She taught me that I am a survivor, not a victim. My experiences are part of me but they do not define me. *I* define myself.

The fact that I expect to divorce is just that: a fact. It implies nothing "good" or "bad". It is like saying "I have a certificate in GIS" or "I have brown hair" or "I am a mom". It is part of where I am at in life and I mentioned it originally back in December, in a low key fashion, so people here are not "shocked" or something when The News hits. I consider that to be partly a curtesy and partly a matter of honestly being myself and living in the moment. I am, fundamentally, an honest person. I kept this detail of my life under my hat for a long time, for a lot of reasons. But I expect things to come to a head "fairly soon" -- which is relative, I guess, after being married 19 years -- so I want to start letting people be aware of this detail.

I had hoped that my words might, in some small way, be helpful to Budgie or RichmondJake or someone. I didn't "confess" in order to get sympathy or support. I would have spoken to them privately but I do not know either of them well enough to feel that was appropriate -- and I didn't want it to be misconstrued in some way. Nevertheless, it seems it is being misconstrued. Sigh.

Thanks. But... no thanks. I'm fine. Seriously.
 

Wannaplan?

Ready to Learn
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Michele Zone said:
The fact that I expect to divorce is just that: a fact. It implies nothing "good" or "bad". It is like saying "I have a certificate in GIS" or "I have brown hair" or "I am a mom".

The sky is blue...

...fire is hot.

These are facts, and yet the Existentialist in me doesn't attach any meaning to them, however, the small part of me that is an Essentialist acknowledges these facts do also have meaning and are not so objective as I would like to think. What is lacking here is context.
 
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Wanigas? said:
The sky is blue...

...fire is hot.

These are facts, and yet the Existentialist in me doesn't attach any meaning to them, however, the small part of me that is an Essentialist acknowledges these facts do also have meaning and are not so objective as I would like to think. What is lacking here is context.

Yeah, well, I have given everyone here 6 months to hear me crack jokes about my health problems and what have you. I know you lack context but I am all out of ideas on how to "explain" to folks how I see my life. When I give the gory details in an effort to say "This is what I have lived through, so this other thing seems amusing to me", it only makes people feel sorry for me for going through the first thing and NOT get the humor in the sometimes morbid jokes. I know a few people who "get" my take on life and appreciate my weird sense of humor. One of them is a Vietnam Vet. Sigh: Folks with less traumatic lives either pity me or flee in terror -- but understanding where I am coming from is out of the question.

Let's try this: in a divorce, the men tend to take it on the chin emotionally and it rips their guts out. Women are more likely to survive okay emotionally and take it on the chin financially. I do have sympathy for Budgie and Richmond Jake but their huge emotional crisis is a "guy thing". If I can figure out how to pay my bills, this will be "no big deal" for me. It's a "gal thing".

Does that do it for you? Or do you want to tempt to some sleep-deprived individual into railing on in some hopeless attempt to be "understood" which will almost certainly amount to "digging my grave deeper"? (argh)
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
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Michele Zone said:
Let's try this: in a divorce, the men tend to take it on the chin emotionally and it rips their guts out. Women are more likely to survive okay emotionally and take it on the chin financially. I do have sympathy for Budgie and Richmond Jake but their huge emotional crisis is a "guy thing". If I can figure out how to pay my bills, this will be "no big deal" for me. It's a "gal thing".

Guys survive emotionally just the same way women survive financially. Is it just a matter of where your individual weakness is in terms of what you lose in a divorce? If the loss to a woman financially is bigger than the loss of the emotional bond, of course they will focus their attention to the financial loss. MZ, don't take me wrong. I am not implying that you think males are the "weaker" sex. They are just diffrent. As you say, it's a "guy" or "gal" thing.

MZ or are you saying that womens emotions do not run as deep as a man's? There is obviously personal strength in dealing with both types of loses and neither sex should feel the other is "weaker" as a result of the dynamics of healing from broken relationships.

As I heard an old women say, "for every door that closes another one opens".
 

Wannaplan?

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Michele Zone said:
Does that do it for you?

I see that the sky is blue as I lay here, paralyzed, alone, and miles away from civilization. Damn, why did I attempt to climb that cliff face? How did I fall? Was I out of shape or did the equipment mafunction?

...or...

The sky is blue and the sunshine will give me a great tan!
 

donk

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Wanigas? said:
The sky is blue...

...fire is hot.

Yes but you can argue over what shade of blue it is.

Being the child of multiple divorces/breakups (sounds bad I know) I learned that the shade of the colour is as important as the colour sometimes.(metaphorically speaking)
 

Wannaplan?

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Budgie said:
...are you saying that womens emotions do not run as deep as a man's?

:-0 Ohhh! Revolutionary! :-D

Most women I know would say that women are more in tune with their emotions than men. I believe, to the contrary, that men and women feel their emotions equally. However, generally speaking, men tend not to verbalize or articulate their feelings. Whereas, generally speaking, women tend to talk about their feelings and acknowledge them on a regular basis. I believe each of these assertions are true, however, what I don't understand is why some women think they are superior because they talk about their feelings and acknowledge them on a regular basis. I would imagine that the act of talking about one's feelings validates something in the mind, however what that is, I have no clue. I am aware of my feelings, I acknowledge them, and I know how they influence me. But the very act of talking about them, for me, doesn't neccessarily always give me greater clarity or understanding. And talking about them doesn't always "make me feel better" either.
 
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Budgie said:
MZ or are you saying that womens emotions do not run as deep as a man's? There is obviously personal strength in dealing with both types of loses and neither sex should feel the other is "weaker" as a result of the dynamics of healing from broken relationships.

As I heard an old women say, "for every door that closes another one opens".
Budgie, I said nothing about "weaker" or "stronger". Not at all. And I said nothing about the depth of anyone's emotions.

Studies show that women tend to have a network of people they can turn to for emotional nurturing and tend to create many close, intimate emotional relationaships. In fact, many husband's are not terribly good at giving emotional nurturing to their wives. But men generally seem to only form that depth of bond with whatever woman they are romantically or sexually involved with. Since she is practically the entire outlet for this need of his, her loss is viewed as emotionally devastating. But since men tend to make more money than women and societal structures, etc, rig it so that she tends to be highly financially dependent upon him, she tends to have a harder time with the financial end of things.

My marriage was a hard row to hoe for a lot of years. I had undiagnosed health problems, my husband had some undiagnosed issues, and the genetic pairing of two deeply flawed people produced a couple of genetically screwed up kids (aka "special needs kids"). Things were incredibly hard when the kids were little and we simply had no answers. Homeschooling the kids and coming to understand their issues has given me insight into my husband's personal limitations. Being angry at him for all the years he didn't "hear" me would be like being angry at a deaf person for not hearing me. When my medical problems (and my oldest son's) were finally diagnosed, it made sense of a lot of enormously frustrating stuff. I let go of a great deal of baggage.

I have coped with far worse things than amicably agreeing with someone to no longer torture each other for not being what we each now need. As difficult as it was, we did need each other when we were younger. I am not saying there is no pain at all. But I have lived with a lot more pain than this and whatever pain I have left is not going to be healed by having 700 people tell me how sorry they feel for me and spending a zillion years being told how to see myself in negative terms. Wanigas is right: talking about your feelings doesn't always make you feel better. Talking a lot about negative feelings can serve to simply reinforce them, make you relive them, get you angry all over again, etc.

Perhaps it was a mistake to think I could do something that was "just being me" in this forum, where I generally feel misunderstood and mislabeled. Perhaps it was "too soon". Perhaps I will never feel understood as a person here. And it really irritates me that I have to "explain" (or defend!) how I feel about my own life. Why is it so unreasonable to ask people to take my word for it that I am not falling apart over the fact that I expect to get divorced? And what makes you think you have the right to demand an explanation of how I feel about something that has 20+ years of history (as if I could possibly sum it up in 3 paragraphs)?
 

Budgie

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Michele Zone said:
Budgie, I said nothing about "weaker" or "stronger". Not at all. And I said nothing about the depth of anyone's emotions.)

I know that's why I wrote: "I am not implying that you think males are the "weaker" sex. They are just diffrent. As you say, it's a "guy" or "gal" thing." See my previous post.

Michele Zone said:
Perhaps it was a mistake to think I could do something that was "just being me" in this forum, where I generally feel misunderstood and mislabeled.

As a grizzled veteran of the forum, I'm surprised this would be a concern for you. Most of the regulars have butted heads with others. I don't think that our preception of male/female dynamics are that different. There is a difference between "misunderstanding" and "disagreement". If to understand is to always agree, this world would be very simple to figure out. Since I am a male and you are a female, my lack of "understanding" comes as no surprise since I replied to your response. This defensiveness is a common thread in male/female relationships. Wouldn't you agree?
 
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Budgie said:
As a grizzled veteran of the forum, I'm surprised this would be a concern for you. Most of the regulars have butted heads with others. I don't think that our preception of male/female dynamics are that different. There is a difference between "misunderstanding" and "disagreement". If to understand is to always agree, this world would be very simple to figure out. Since I am a male and you are a female, my lack of "understanding" comes as no surprise since I replied to your response. This defensiveness is a common thread in male/female relationships. Wouldn't you agree?

No. I wouldn't agree. I have quite a few male friends and there is no particular defensiveness when we have trouble understanding each other. I don't expect all people to understand me. I also don't confuse "misunderstanding" with "disagreement".

I have had 4 hours of sleep today -- a "normal" part of my life when I slept a great deal a few days ago, which is a "normal" part of my life when I am in the process of healing -- something that has been going on for eons now. I do not like having people paint a picture of who they think I am and then refuse to hear me when I say "Uh, no, that isn't how I see myself at all." The last time someone in this forum "characterized" me, I went down in flames big time for trying to refute it. I am trying hard to avoid a similar fate in this thread. But the turn of events has put me between a rock and hard place: as usual, when I feel most misunderstood, I also feel ill equipped (due to lack of sleep) to adequately explain.

So, the short and sweet version is that I was sexually abused by two different men before I ever hit puberty. One was a drug addict who also slapped me around a fair amount and generally terrorized me. My willingness to talk about my ordeal is what "saved" me -- and that is WHY I am such a loud mouthed brassy broad and why people think I am being "outrageous" and "too open" when I think I am being very restrained: I have a high tolerance for discussing stuff like this. I spent some years crying on the shoulder of anyone who would listen to me for 5 minutes (as well as doing enormous therapy). Eventually, as I began to heal, I began to realize that people found it emotionally traumatizing for me to grab them by the collar and tell them my life story. When it got to a point that they "felt my pain" ever so much more than I was feeling it -- having healed -- I concluded it was rude to go around telling people this in casual conversation. Out of politeness, I usually do not bring it up without "good reason". Good reason is usually one of two things: a) someone needs help and I am uniquely qualified to give them a shoulder to cry on without reinforcing any negative image that others would tend to project upon them or b) someone is getting to be a close enough friend that I do not feel they can genuinely understand me without knowing my personal history.

I full well expect this to completely backfire. Decent men -- which this forum is very much filled with -- tend to freak out and conclude that I am damaged goods and frail and in need of protecting. Indecent men sometimes want the lurid details, which is usually a signal to me to get the hell out of there.

I have been beaten and raped. Yet I like men. A lot. Living well is the best revenge when you have been through that kind of trauma, and enjoying hell out of yourself in bed is the ultimate revenge against the bastards who thought they could own you and destroy you. Compared to the years I was suicidal, etc, facing a divorce is no big deal.

Now everyone can go whig out, come to erroneous conclusions based on their inability to face what I survived long ago and got over, the mods can freak and think I am being "indiscrete" and don't know what I have done...blah, blah, blah. All of it "wrong" (well, except the shock of individuals, which they are totally entitled to). When you are ready to see me for who I am and not for who this forum has tried to paint me as, get back to me. Okay?

Let the barbecue begin.
 
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Budgie said:
I think you misunderstood me.

Thank God. Now can we go back to playing? I come here to have fun. Giving you a shoulder to cry on is kind of fun for me. Defending my "right" to not need condolences is not fun. If I wanted to cry on the shoulder of a man, I wouldn't want to do it with a few thousand witnesses and no hope of getting naked as a result. :)
 

Budgie

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Michele Zone said:
Thank God. Now can we go back to playing? I come here to have fun. Giving you a shoulder to cry on is kind of fun for me. Defending my "right" to not need condolences is not fun. If I wanted to cry on the shoulder of a man, I wouldn't want to do it with a few thousand witnesses and no hope of getting naked as a result. :)

But that's what this thread is about. Budgie feelings sorry for himself hoping for a sympathy yam-scam. I can not even attempt to pretend that I have any ability to understand your prespective. That being said. Did you write "Lovely Bones"? Are you Tori Amos? These are people I respect, but wouldn't even attempt to "put myself in their shoes". Shall we move on, gleefully.
 
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Budgie said:
But that's what this thread is about. Budgie feelings sorry for himself. I can not even attempt to pretend that I have any ability to understand your prespective. That being said. Did you write "Lovely Bones"? Are you Tori Amos? These are people I respect, but wouldn't even attempt to "put myself in their shoes". Shall we move on, gleefully.

{silliness]Yes, I actually am Tori Amos (who the hell is that and what am I admitting to?) and wrote "Lovely Bones" (is that a song? a poem? a book? -- and what am I admitting to).[/silliness]

My Original Point was just to say that I have been married a long time and I invested a lot in my marriage. Coming to terms with not being able to "make it work" was hard. The big personal lesson for me that ultimately came out of it was that I do not have *control* over the outcome. Whether I get a college degree, pay my bills, and a zillion other things is largely within my control and I can "make" those things happen. But a marriage takes two.

There are ways to approach trying to keep someone but if the goal is to "keep" them, you probably won't succeed. And even if you do "everything right", you still may not succeed -- because it takes two. Smart, successful people often have a hard time accepting that. My husband thinks highly of me, tells me I'm "hot" -- and still doesn't want to put up with me anymore. lol. I did a lot of things and I earned his respect. And it will never be "true love". Time to move on.

I say that hoping it will help you in your situation. Not to draw attention to mine. And also not to criticize or predict that you can't possibly fix it or anything of the sort. When you become clear about what piece of it is your responsibility and within your means to "control", it becomes a whole lot easier to move forward -- whatever the future holds.

And if that doesn't "help", oh well. It's not like I charged you for all this brilliant insight. :p
 

Budgie

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To all:
My mind is at ease, thanks to you, my family, friends, co-workers and Led Zepplin who have provided feedback and support to this point. The future is always bright if you are optimistic, enjoy fishing and can afford beer.
 

NHPlanner

A shadow of my former self
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Budgie said:
To all:
My mind is at ease, thanks to you, my family, friends, co-workers and Led Zepplin who have provided feedback and support to this point. The future is always bright if you are optimistic, enjoy fishing and can afford beer.

And with that said, I'll close the thread, until another is needed.
 
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