#### mgk920

##### Cyburbian
otterpop said:
Hamm's is my favorite "rafting beer". The criteria for a good "rafting beer" is: 1) it must come in cans (broken bottles could puncture the raft or a person), 2) it must be inexpensive, 3) it must not be heavy, and 4) it must taste good very cold.

Pabst is another good rafting beer. Busch is another.
Man, I could not even imagine a REAL northwoods bar without one of those old animated Hamms Beer clocks, the ones with the waterfall, campfire and canoe. How much do those go for these days in collector markets?

Mike

#### PlannerByDay

##### Cyburbian
mgk920 said:
Man, I could not even imagine a REAL northwoods bar without one of those old animated Hamms Beer clocks, the ones with the waterfall, campfire and canoe. How much do those go for these days in collector markets?

Mike
Like This One

Looks like somewhere between $40 and$80

#### Maister

##### Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
boiker said:
If there is difference between pouring the same beer into two different containers it may be from the smoothness of the insert vs. the smoothness of the glass. Glass is relatively smooth and will allow for the carbonation to cling to the glass better. The larger bubbles will ride the sides up. Less smooth surfaces will force foaming because the smaller bubbles can't coalesce into larger ones and are immediately released.
This is the best explanation I have heard. Physics. Can't argue with it.

mgk920 said:
That was about the time that Schlitz Brewing committed one of the worst errors in consumer product manufacturing -- they changed their formula (see 'New Coke' from the 1980s) :-@. The mistakes, blunders and arrogance that followed destroyed the brand and the company. Prior to that, they were indeed one of the top selling beers in the World. An idea of how big, the Milwaukee Road railroad hauled at least four 100+ car trains off of the branchline that served their brewery every day.

There is a non-Milwaukee company that still makes the brand, but I seldom see it in stores.

BTW, what is the latest with plans to redevelop the former Schlitz brewery site on the north edge of downtown Milwaukee?

Mike
The story of American breweries during the 20th century is a sad one. Hundreds of small breweries went belly up during Prohibition. Only a handful were able to stay viable eeking out an existance by selling other malt products during the 20's. After Prohibitions' end, brewing began again in earnest and there was a brief rennaisance where dozens of new breweries emerged, but starting even before the 50's the trend was towards greater and greater market consolidation. By the late 70's early 80's 99% of American beer was produced by 4 companies.

Stroh's acquired both Blatz and Schiltz during the early 80's. They ended up terminating the Blatz brand label and proceeded to run the Schlitz label into the ground as you pointed out by changing the formulation.

I think the macros are getting slightly concerned by the demographic trends they're seeing among 18-30 yr olds. You'll notice Anheuser Busch has made forrays into the craft beer world with its Red Hook line and introduction of Michelob Amber Bock.

Last edited by a moderator:

#### Markitect

##### Cyburbian
mgk920 said:
An idea of how big, the Milwaukee Road railroad hauled at least four 100+ car trains off of the branchline that served their brewery every day.
Just curious...where did you find this figure? I have a collection of books/articles specifically about the Milwaukee Road's "Beer Line" operations, but have never come across a Schlitz-only figure like that, since the branchline also served Pabst and Blatz (via rail/truck transfers, as their breweries were located off-line), plus many non-brewery shippers on the line that would have outbound carloads of cargo attached to the muliple daily "Beer Trains."

mgk920 said:
BTW, what is the latest with plans to redevelop the former Schlitz brewery site on the north edge of downtown Milwaukee?
Many of the old Schlitz brewery buildings were converted into an urban office park (known as Schlitz Park) in the early-1990s. Some of it was even converted into a public school.

A few years ago, the vacant brewhouse was going to be converted into a Harley-Davidson motorcycle museum--but those plans fell through (too expensive to retrofit the building). Earlier this year Harley announced plans to construct a museum from scratch on a site in the Menomonee Valley.

#### Bear Up North

##### Cyburbian Emeritus
DESCRIPTION OF HEAVEN

Waking up in the morning and crawling out of your tent or camper. Looking at the ground around the campfire, now dead.....but it was about 4:00 AM when you threw the last log on it and almost threw yourself in the fire.

All around the cold ashes are empty bottles of ROLLING ROCK. Those little green monsters that taste soooooooooooo good.

Beer Bear

#### Dan

Staff member
Moderator
So, what do you think about the World's Worst Beer list? There's an awful lot of Australian beer on there ... I'm really surprised.

donk - three of the 50 beers are from Steelman. W\hat's wrong with the beer in your part of Canada?

#### mgk920

##### Cyburbian
Markitect said:
Just curious...where did you find this figure? I have a collection of books/articles specifically about the Milwaukee Road's "Beer Line" operations, but have never come across a Schlitz-only figure like that, since the branchline also served Pabst and Blatz (via rail/truck transfers, as their breweries were located off-line), plus many non-brewery shippers on the line that would have outbound carloads of cargo attached to the muliple daily "Beer Trains."
That is true. I recall that figure from 'oral' histories that I picked up in conversations over the years with Milwaukee area railfans. Until the mid-1970s, there was enough rail-freight traffic to keep a classification 'hump' yard (now much of the abandoned railroad yard east of Miller Park) busy and Schlitz was definitely a part of it.

Mike

PlannerByDay said:
Like This One

Looks like somewhere between $40 and$80
Unfortunately not. The clock that I am thinking of shows an animation in the style of the current Miller clock (the one with the varying big-city skylines), with the scenes moving from a campsite with smoke rising from the campfire to a canoe in a river with a waterfall falling behind it and back to the campsite. A VERY KEWL piece of beer memorabilia.

Mike

Last edited by a moderator:

#### michaelskis

##### Cyburbian
Dan said:
So, what do you think about the World's Worst Beer list? There's an awful lot of Australian beer on there ... I'm really surprised.
two words Bush Light.

I am sorry, but I think that Light beer is wrong.

Here is another question.

Has any one ever gone to Theology on Tap? For those of you who don’t know, it is targeted to 20's and 30's people who are kind of in the church. Here is the best part, you hang out with a priest, talk about religion and god, and drink beer. It is a setting that most people would never relate with a church, but the one that I went to tonight had people who came from the other side of the state.

#### Dan

Staff member
Moderator
michaelskis said:
Here is the best part, you hang out with a priest, talk about religion and god, and drink beer.
I'ev never heard of it, but I think it's a great idea. I've had some of the deepest and most meaningful discussions and personal discoveries about God over a cold one or three.

It sounds like something the Belgian trappist monk brewers would highly approve of.

#### JNA

##### Cyburbian Plus
Dan said:
So, what do you think about the World's Worst Beer list?
I am glad before I gave up drinking, I don't remember ever having tasted (think Bill the Cat on Lite Beer: ACK! THBBFT!! ) any of those on that list.

Q. Wasn't the song by Traffic John Barleycorn about beer ?

#### SkeLeton

##### Cyburbian
Hmm.. no Chilean beers on the worst beer list? Maybe they're just unknown... 'cause I know some bad ones... although probably not in the 50 worst beers of the world...

#### Markitect

##### Cyburbian
mgk920 said:
Man, I could not even imagine a REAL northwoods bar without one of those old animated Hamms Beer clocks, the ones with the waterfall, campfire and canoe. How much do those go for these days in collector markets?
That would be one of the Hamm's "Scenearama" signs. If you poke around on the Internet, you can find some for sale--they can go for several hundred, even a thousand-plus.

#### mgk920

##### Cyburbian
Markitect said:
That would be one of the Hamm's "Scenearama" signs. If you poke around on the Internet, you can find some for sale--they can go for several hundred, even a thousand-plus.
That's the one. It's the kind of thing that brings back pleasant childhood memories of family roadtrips to a northern Wisconsin resort, waiting for our turn for the fish fry with me sitting there at the bar, mesmerized, sipping a coke and watching the changing scenes of that kewl sign.

Mike

#### JNA

##### Cyburbian Plus
Found in the Louisville Courier Journal Sat. July 17, 2004
Favorite Bookmarks

American Brewery History Page
If you find history to be a dry subject, perhaps you're not reading the stuff that hops.
This page offers a heady brew of library resources, clips of vintage commercials, trivia, photos, jokes, e-cards, and other stout content.

http://www.beerhistory.com/

and forums (just what some of you need another forum to keep up with. B-))

#### otterpop

##### Cyburbian
mgk920 said:
Man, I could not even imagine a REAL northwoods bar without one of those old animated Hamms Beer clocks, the ones with the waterfall, campfire and canoe. How much do those go for these days in collector markets?

Mike
Yeah, those clocks are cool. There is one in a bar in Wisdom, Montana. Actually the only one I've seen.

#### Tranplanner

##### maudit anglais
Dan said:
So, what do you think about the World's Worst Beer list? There's an awful lot of Australian beer on there ... I'm really surprised.

donk - three of the 50 beers are from Steelman. W\hat's wrong with the beer in your part of Canada?
A number of beers on that list appear to be "specialty" beers - low alcohol, non-alcoholic, etc. I wouldn't classify them as proper beers. Sleeman Clear and Labatt Sterling are "low-carb" beers. I've vaguely heard of Steelback, but I don't think I've ever tried them - not sure I want to.

#### Gedunker

##### Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Mmmmm: Bell's Oberon

#### Repo Man

##### Cyburbian
boiker said:
Now, were you able to taste anything with Miller Lite? I wasn't. Light beer in gernal is bad.
Being from Milwaukee I am legally bound to not say anything bad about Miller products. ;-) Actually I don't mind Miller light even though it is virtually tasteless and I kind of enjoy MGD light, but I don't go out of my way to drink them.

This weekend I picked up a 6-er of Moose Drool. I am so glad that they now have this in Wisconsin. It is one of the best Brown Ales I have ever tasted.

I also grabbed a 6-er of Great Lakes Brewing's Burning River Pale Ale. Pretty tasty. I am always looking for a good pale ale. Any recommendations? Some of my favorites are Summit, New Glarus Hearty Hop, Cream City, and Dogfish Head's 90 Minute IPA - a double pale ale filled with alcohol and flavor I think it has 9% alcohol by volume.

#### michaelskis

Gedunker said:
Looking for something different on Friday I discovered a local retailer with a pretty complete line of Bells. Suddenly -- 8-! -- the Never Ending Beer Thread jumped to the fore and I bought a six pack of Bell's Oberon ($9.49). It was exceptional. Now to try the stout :-D Just so you know, Oberon is seasonal, and it is close to end of season. It is at it’s best two weekends after Memorial Day, or the first 90 degree sunny Saturday there after! To everyone else, what are your thoughts on flavored beers? (Blueberry, Pumpkin, Christmas... and so on) #### Duke Of Dystopia ##### Cyburbian michaelskis said: ......To everyone else, what are your thoughts on flavored beers? (Blueberry, Pumpkin, Christmas... and so on) American Lambics are fermented wine coolers. Therefore, I suggest staying away from any American product labled "Lambic". There is NO such thing as an American Lambic. I do suggest any fruit flavored Lambic you can get from the BENELUX area! #### PlannerByDay ##### Cyburbian michaelskis said: To everyone else, what are your thoughts on flavored beers? (Blueberry, Pumpkin, Christmas... and so on) :-# YUCK :-# I can't stand fruity beers or those with cloves, nutmeg or other such beers. Perhaps the only time I'll drink a fruity beer is when it is mixed with a nice robust stout or porter. Sierra Nevada Porter with a rasberry lambic or cherry sam adams is alright. #### Maister ##### Chairman of the bored Staff member Moderator michaelskis said: Just so you know, Oberon is seasonal, and it is close to end of season. It is at it’s best two weekends after Memorial Day, or the first 90 degree sunny Saturday there after! To everyone else, what are your thoughts on flavored beers? (Blueberry, Pumpkin, Christmas... and so on) I'm 100% OK with the whole notion of 'flavored' beers - variety in beer is a GOOD THING. I've had some flavored beers (Cherry Larry...yummm) that have been outstanding and I have had some that, quite frankly, sucked. #### Repo Man ##### Cyburbian I like some flavored beers but not too many. I really enjoy Lakefront (Milwaukee) Brewery's Pumpkin Lager and I like many of the pumpkin aless that I have tried. Point Brewery used to make this awesome Maple Wheat..it leaft a maple syrup taste on your lips when you drank it. It was discontinued due to lack of interest. #### jresta ##### Cyburbian Yuengling's "Lager" is of course the "cheap beer" around these parts and usually my beer of choice. I actually just noticed a few months ago that hardly anywhere has Bud or Miller on tap and everyone has Lager. Yeungling's "Black&Tan" is pretty popular and is on a lot of taps. Their "Lord Chesterfield" Ale is also on the money and great for the summer when the lager is too heavy. For some reason PBR, or "the champagne of beers" if you prefer, has become pretty hip in the city . . . i think it has to do with the price. A lot of bars have it on tap now. A shot of Jim Beam and a can of PBR are now known as the "Citywide Special" and can be had just about anywhere by that name for$2-$4 Yard's is brewed in Philly. I go for their ESA every once in a while but i have to be in the mood. Victory is brewed out on the main line and their Hop Devil is good stuff. It's def. up there on the list. i just had the Dogfish Head (of Delaware)"Raison d'Etre". Tasty and STRONG! 3 pints and i was ready to call it a night. "A deep mahogany ale brewed with beet sugar, green raisins, and Belgian yeast. As complex as a fine red wine. 8% ABV 36 IBU" Last edited: #### michaelskis ##### Cyburbian jresta said: Yuengling's "Lager" is of course the "cheap beer" around these parts and usually my beer of choice..... ....i just had the Dogfish Head (of Delaware)"Raison d'Etre". Tasty and STRONG! 3 pints and i was ready to call it a night. "A deep mahogany ale brewed with beet sugar, green raisins, and Belgian yeast. As complex as a fine red wine. 8% ABV 36 IBU" Please tell me you think of it as "inexpensive" and not cheep. As for Dogfish Head... I love the champaigne bottle look, but it was not a good choice right after an Oktoberfest Party. I don't think that I have been that drunk in my entire life. I did not get sick only because the buzz lasted for a few days. #### boiker ##### Cyburbian flavored beers... there is a chocolate stout available from a micro brewery here that is amazing. I like stout however and I like chocolate. It was a simple win-win. #### jresta ##### Cyburbian michaelskis said: Please tell me you think of it as "inexpensive" and not cheep. As for Dogfish Head... I love the champaigne bottle look, but it was not a good choice right after an Oktoberfest Party. I don't think that I have been that drunk in my entire life. I did not get sick only because the buzz lasted for a few days. Yes, exactly, the lager is inexpensive and tasty. You're in Reading, right? Next time you're in Philly and the line at Monk's is too long head over to Abbaye at 3rd&Fairmount - it's the only other place i know of with the Raison d'Etre on tap. #### michaelskis ##### Cyburbian jresta said: You're in Reading, right? Next time you're in Philly and the line at Monk's is too long head over to Abbaye at 3rd&Fairmount - it's the only other place i know of with the Raison d'Etre on tap. I was in Reading. But last fall, I got out and found a great job for a city in the Kalamazoo Michigan area. (Mid way between Detroit and Chicago) #### Dan ##### Dear Leader Staff member Moderator Yesterday, I bought a six pack of Bell's Oberon.$8.50 at Cost Plus World Market. I also bought a six of New Holland Sundog and Three Floyds Alpha King (from NW Indiana, but close enough) to try out.

I think a microbrewery in Detroit selling their wares in 40 ounce screw-top bottles might be worth a gamble. Riot Blood Red Ale, Devil's Night Fire-Brewed Lager, and Oakland County Extremely Pale Ale would definitely have some kitsch value, much like the brews from Schmaltz Brewing. Which reminds me ... I should check out the kosher grocery store near me to see if they have any.

Trivia: Three Floyds Gumballhead is technically illegal in Ohio. Why? (Yes, I know a bar here that serves it. No, I'm not telling you where.)

#### JNA

##### Cyburbian Plus

Merger talks between Canada's Molson Inc. and U.S.-based Adolph Coors Co. helped boost their stocks on Tuesday, but analysts were left wondering if the brewers' possible merger would create a firm that could compete in a tough global market.

But since Molson and Coors already have a joint venture -- where Molson brews and sells Coors products in Canada and Coors brews and sells Molson's brands in the United States -- analysts have been wondering where and how the combined company could grow.

The brewers are steeped in family tradition, with Coors founded in the Denver suburb of Golden in 1873 by Adolph Coors and Jacob Schueler. John Molson founded the company that bears his name, in 1786 in Montreal.

A Molson-Coors deal would likely offer little or no premium to shareholders of either company with executive positions split among them, analysts said..

Q. Do Cyburbians drink enough beer to equal

"In the United States, annual consumption per person in 2002 was around 175 pints, according to industry figures."
OR
"The average German adult drank 255 pints of beer last year, 35 more pints than his British counterpart, the survey found."

taken from the AP Wire Story:
Survey: 1 in 5 Germans Drink to Get Drunk

Pretty funny coming from a non-drinker.

Last edited by a moderator:

#### Maister

##### Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
JNA said:
Q. Do Cyburbians drink enough beer to equal

"In the United States, annual consumption per person in 2002 was around 175 pints, according to industry figures."
OR
"The average German adult drank 255 pints of beer last year, 35 more pints than his British counterpart, the survey found."

taken from the AP Wire Story:
Survey: 1 in 5 Germans Drink to Get Drunk
There's this cool pub in town called the "Pilsen Klub" located on campus which features lots of imports and micros (dimly lit, has lots of couches to sit on, big fireplace with a fire going all winter long) ......anyways....they used to have a chart on the (half timbered) wall which showed the per capita consumption of beer and wine in the world. Needless to say countries like France and Italy topped the wine consumption list, but what surprised me was that Australia led the world in per capita consumption of alcohol overall, edging out even germany in the beer department. I wonder if those stats hold true today?

#### biscuit

##### Cyburbian
Maister said:
There's this cool pub in town called the "Pilsen Klub" located on campus which features lots of imports and micros (dimly lit, has lots of couches to sit on, big fireplace with a fire going all winter long) ......anyways....they used to have a chart on the (half timbered) wall which showed the per capita consumption of beer and wine in the world. Needless to say countries like France and Italy topped the wine consumption list, but what surprised me was that Australia led the world in per capita consumption of alcohol overall, edging out even germany in the beer department. I wonder if those stats hold true today?
I don't know? Perhaps we can ask Rem, da monkey, or one of the other Aussie Cyburbians. That is, if they're sober enough to type a response. :b:;-)

I don't know how it is in the rest of the nation but it was big news that per capita beer consumption in Pennsylvania has dropped to the lowest level since 1947. Down to just under 23 gallons per person.

#### Rumpy Tunanator

##### Cyburbian
biscuit said:
I don't know how it is in the rest of the nation but it was big news that per capita beer consumption in Pennsylvania has dropped to the lowest level since 1947. Down to just under 23 gallons per person.
That's because I moved.

I know Yuengling has been slowly creeping into WNY, but it still hasn't made it to Buffalo, although 45 minutes away you can get it. Tough market to tap into, expecially in a market where Bud doesn't have over a 50% share.

PBR has been back for a while, although I don't think it ever left. They a had a special at the store for a 24 pack for \$8.99, although the Genny 30 pack is still cheaper.

#### Maister

##### Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Has anyone ever encountered a woman who could just put away beer like no one's business? I was looking at one those alcohol metabolizing charts - you know the ones which show how many drinks over so many hours put you at .10 or .075 or whatever blood alcohol level and I noticed on one web site that they had one chart for males and another for females. Typically, the more one weighs the more alcohol one can consume without getting as drunk. The thing I noticed, though, was that a male and a female of identical weight metabolized alcohol at different rates, women appear not to metablolize as quickly. I always assumed that it was just because guys are usually heavier that we hear the gals always saying "I am such a lightweight when it comes to drinking". Apparently there is also some biological basis for it as well.
That said, I did know this girl in college who could routinely put down more beers than most of the football players could. She did have a rather...uh..zaftig...figure (I guess the beer had to go somewhere), but not so much so that it could easily explain her ability to hold her liquor. I wondered if anyone else has come across this?

#### Gedunker

##### Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Maister said:
Has anyone ever encountered a woman who could just put away beer like no one's business? <snip> I wondered if anyone else has come across this?
Most women I know will have a couple of beers and then switch to something else. I can't think of any that had hollow legs. Mrs. G. is a direct descendant of Jim Beam and can put away good Kentucky bourbon like no one's business B-)

#### tsc

##### Cyburbian
I know a good irish woman who can down beers/liquour like no tomorrow... she could down a case of beer... and does indulge in the dark heavy beers as well. She is slowing down a bit.. and she isn't a cow either.

#### Maister

##### Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
tsc said:
I know a good irish woman who can down beers/liquour like no tomorrow
This is probably worthy of a sub-thread in itself. It seems that most nationalities claim they have traditions of being boozehounds - some more than others. Irish have figured prominently in this mythology. Russians too. Perhaps there is some basis for it, though. Germans, after all, are the world's great beer drinkers....

#### tsc

##### Cyburbian
I lived on an island in Greece for a summer.... and no one could drink like the vacationing Scandanavians..... back to the topic....beer of choice in Greece were German beers... Henniger and Dinkelacker... also drank Amstel (not light)

#### Rumpy Tunanator

##### Cyburbian
tsc said:
I lived on an island in Greece for a summer.... and no one could drink like the vacationing Scandanavians.....
You've got that right :b:

#### biscuit

##### Cyburbian
tsc said:
I know a good irish woman who can down beers/liquour like no tomorrow... she could down a case of beer... and does indulge in the dark heavy beers as well. She is slowing down a bit.. and she isn't a cow either.
I dated a Norwegian back in college (part of my international studies requirement ;-) ) and she could put away a few drinks. However, I have never meet a heavier drinking bunch than the Australians and Kiwis I met and partied with while traveling Europe. Granted I wasn't even 18 at the time but those kids were drinking everyone under the table.

It might have been because they were sauced all of the time but they were also some of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting.

#### The One

##### Cyburbian
And why not...

Why wouldn't they be the nicest people you've ever met, look at the lifestyle :-} ...Drink :-D , Beach o , Work 32-36 hours a week B-) and/or 4-6 weeks off a year ..compulsory trips around the world ;-) ...small number of people for huge resources ...on and on and on.....can you tell I'm overworked?

#### JNA

##### Cyburbian Plus
Q. Anybody remember this brand - Rheingold ?

#### Duke Of Dystopia

##### Cyburbian
Maister said:
Has anyone ever encountered a woman who could just put away beer like no one's business?......
Standard Wisconsinite women do a fair job of keeping up with this states Male professionals! :-D

#### giff57

##### Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Maister said:
Has anyone ever encountered a woman who could just put away beer like no one's business?......

Duke Of Dystopia said:
Standard Wisconsinite women do a fair job of keeping up with this states Male professionals! :-D
I once tryed to keep up with a Native American woman. I can attest that stereotype is very untrue. I was put down like a dog.

#### JNA

##### Cyburbian Plus
The cyburbian affect - Geography of Micro Brews

From the Indianapolis Star, July 28, 2004:
State has microbreweries from LaPorte to Evansville
http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/165741-7498-067.html

Seventeen microbrew companies are operating in Indiana.
Listed by region northern, central (Indy), and southern; then by