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The NEVERENDING Dating Thread

natski

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Seriously, who enjoys rejection- or the fear of getting rejected?

I think its just a basic (and annoying at times) human reaction
 

kjel

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Mastiff said:
Use this one... "Hmmm... I seem to have lost my number, can I have yours?"
That's so lame *lol* Rates right up there with the man holding the door open to the Barnes & Noble who followed me in and said "Excuse me, would you be offended if I told you that I thought you are beautiful?"
 

natski

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Im heading into the city tonight- so i may have some interesting stories for the weekend for you all...
 

natski

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No stories from my night out.
Turned up to the bar to meet some friends and it was practically empty! Then a friend of mine's bf brought this exchange planner (from Holland) that works with him along. So i got the pleasure of talking to a hot holland planner. Apparently i have to take him to the Blue Mountains :)

Sorry to dissapoint everyone- i will do better next time ;)
 

Michele Zone

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natski said:
Seriously, who enjoys rejection- or the fear of getting rejected?

I think its just a basic (and annoying at times) human reaction
There are times when I am tongue-tied. I have been trying to figure out when/why -- what causes that in me, since it isn't like that all the time. Nor am I particularly shy. With thinking about it, I have concluded that I get "tongue-tied" where there is a history of misunderstandings and it has begun to feel like everything I say will be misinterpretted by X person, so "what's the point?" There are other times when I have a hard time talking about something, but often I am very casual about saying something and waiting to see how the person responds. Whether they react positively or negatively, the reaction itself is valuable information.

My basic feeling is that, yeah, it sucks to be rejected but if you never let anyone know how you feel about them, how can you get the acceptance and closeness you want? If you make no attempt to tell them, how will they know how you feel? For me, I would rather know for sure they aren't attracted to me or don't want the same things I want so I can have closure and not waste a lot of emotional energy fantasizing about some fairy tale ending which has no hope of happening. And for me it has been a good experience in life -- not just romantically, but socially -- to have people tell me what they think of me or have me tell them what I think of them. Often, it doesn't lead to what I am looking/hoping for. But I don't feel imprisoned either behind a wall of silence. And most men are nice about saying "Oh, I'm flattered but I'm engaged" or whatever.
 

SkeLeton

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Bleh.... The thought that best describes my "dating" scene (or should I say lack of?) is "It's better to be alone than with bad company"

I don't think that it's a crime to be alone, and anyways it's not that I don't have friends, but at least I preffer to have a lot of "Me" time available...
 

natski

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I havent had much "dating" updates of late- but alas today (well yesterday) something actually did happen.

I think i got hit on by a guy at work- from my opinion, work relationships are a no go (due to the fact that i was in one and it ended so so badly). Now i could be completely wrong about the guy- so i will have to see what happens next time im in at work- but what is everyones opinion on workplace relationships?

Oh and update on HTG- his sister is catching our train now- so i have lost my seat next to him!!!
 

Michele Zone

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natski said:
Oh and update on HTG- his sister is catching our train now- so i have lost my seat next to him!!!
[cue the cheesy soap opera muzak]
And now for the continuing saga of Hot Train Guy....

[/end cheesy muzak]




:)
 

Richmond Jake

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I guess if I described my recent dating adventures, ya'll would say "...there they go again with that Florida connection thing...." So, I won't. Seems like my life is nearly an open book here.
 

biscuit

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An older, and sometimes wiser, friend of mine once said that being single and dating always sucks... until after you've been married a few years.

Just something to ponder. ;-)
 

natski

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biscuit said:
An older, and sometimes wiser, friend of mine once said that being single and dating always sucks... until after you've been married a few years.

Just something to ponder. ;-)
A wise friend indeed.
 

JNL

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Not a date, but...

Had a weird situation on Saturday. Got an email out of the blue from a guy I met 2 YEARS AGO, saying I had a made an impression on him and he'd heard I had "recently become unattached" and he would love to meet up! I remembered his name but could not remember anything about him? I'm not really interested in dating yet so was going to put him off, but a co-worker urged me to be kind, so i sent back an email saying I was not really looking to start anything new, but was planning to go hear our mutual friend play in his band on Sat night, so might see him there. So even though I wasn't interested, I suddenly found myself in a blind date type situation!! I went along and dragged my 3 flatmates with me, who all found the situation quite amusing. After the band packed up, our mutual friend came over with this guy and... oh dear. I stood up to shake his hand and I was easily a few centimetres taller, and he was so shy, and terrible at making conversation - he actually said something about how he once looked into selling encyclopedias! :-o He was also about 20 years older than me!! I had already googled him and found he'd won lots of scientific awards. Accomplished in the laboratory, but not in social skills. It was very awkward. Some other friends turned up and this young guy jumped in between us and started chatting to me. Then we decided to leave and I said bye and poor Mr Scientist looked very sad.. "I might see you around some time?" he said, without much hope :-( Felt bad but didn't want to encourage him and send mixed messages.

Not looking forward to getting back into dating! :p
 

donk

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Got chatted up today on my ride home from my mtb bike ride as a rode along the street. I passed this girl, looked back to make sure I was clear, blasted through a stop light (it was yellow). She caught up to me at the next red light and said hi and asked me some questions and made small talk, rode for about 10 minutes with her, then she turned off with a quick "bye" . Flirting is fun.
 

natski

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JNL said:
Not looking forward to getting back into dating! :p
I was under the impression you were attached JNL?

Anyway sounds like an interesting (ok awkward) situation. Whatcha gonna do?!!!
 

JNL

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natski said:
I was under the impression you were attached JNL?

Anyway sounds like an interesting (ok awkward) situation. Whatcha gonna do?!!!
I was... up until recently.

Re the awkward situation... don't think I'll hear from him again. I'm kind of glad to have resolved it quickly, rather than have emails going backwards and forwards, without really knowing what he was like. I feel bad for him, but it's not really my problem. i don't think I was mean.

Hey donk - nice one with the cycle-flirting ;-)
 

njm

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That's what is so nice about cycling/walking. You can actually interact with others on the street (novel idea, I know.) I s'pose preaching that here is really not required...

Anyway. I have a bit of an interesting and completely relevant situation (that's been brewing for, oh, 3 years.) A former summer research intern (from a different school) from the summer after my 5th year at the U... we were friends for the entire summer, and only at the end of the summer did it become apparent that my interest in her would be returned... but she went back to her school for her last year. Halfway through that year she came to visit, there were many moments that were akward because we were, in my assessment, trying to avoid having feelings (because I was in Minnesota and she Virginia.) At the end of the trip she told me she was applying to Minnesota fro a masters. I had already applied to KTH (in Stockholm, Sweden) and was planning to go there. 18 months later I live in upstate NY, she's still in MN. I'll be in MN in two weeks, we've already set up an afternoon together that could easily be 'just friends' or a full-out date...

I've never had a 'clear-cut' dating relationship. Ever. It must not fit my genetic disposition.
 

michaelskis

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RichmondJake said:
I've only been picked up once. But that was due to a Sadie Hawkins Day dance in high school, so I guess that doesn't count. :-|
Well, was he your type? ;-)
 

Hceux

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Earlier today, I was standing at the bus stop at a busy corner, waiting for the next bus to come along. As I stood there, I saw a very odd thing that happened in front of my eyes.

First, the traffic was coming to a stop because of a red light. I saw a man in a Pontiac Sunbird catching a woman's attention and prompting her to use her cell phone, which she was doing anyways.

The woman in a Toyota Matrix pointed her cellphone towards him, trying to catch the guy's attention again.

The man was slowing taking out his cell phone and his ear buds out of his jacket. He never bothered looking back at her.

Soon, the lights turn green and there they went racing down the busy three-laned street.

So, what was this that I saw? A new dating fad? Pointing cellphones at each other as a form of flirting?!
 

Michele Zone

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Hceux said:
So, what was this that I saw? A new dating fad? Pointing cellphones at each other as a form of flirting?!
Sounds to me like they probably knew each other already.
 

Mastiff

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kjelsadek said:
That's so lame *lol* Rates right up there with the man holding the door open to the Barnes & Noble who followed me in and said "Excuse me, would you be offended if I told you that I thought you are beautiful?"
Lame can so work... But she has got to know it's lame on purpose.
 

JNL

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JNL said:
I stood up to shake his hand and I was easily a few centimetres taller, and he was so shy, and terrible at making conversation - he actually said something about how he once looked into selling encyclopedias! :-o He was also about 20 years older than me!! I had already googled him and found he'd won lots of scientific awards. Accomplished in the laboratory, but not in social skills. It was very awkward.
So the guy I mentioned above has sent me another email asking me out. I am so surprised!! There was no connection, no interest from me. So... how do I let him down easy? How do I write a nice email that says 'sorry not interested' in a clear but not too harsh way??

Ha ha... I could send him a link to this thread!! Only joking.
 

Tranplanner

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JNL said:
So the guy I mentioned above has sent me another email asking me out. I am so surprised!! There was no connection, no interest from me. So... how do I let him down easy? How do I write a nice email that says 'sorry not interested' in a clear but not too harsh way??
Well, you should let him know you're not interested and not drag it out. I've never been on this side of the equation - I was always the loser someone was trying to give the brush off :r: A straight, but nice, "thanks but no thanks" was always preferable to the "maybe some other time".


Could always say you have a new boyfriend - Stan, from Michigan ;-)
 

Jaxspra

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I am joining the "man hater" club....

Tired, tired of guys, tired of trying to meet one, tired of them being wierd once I do, just plain old tired...I have two guys at home, might as well stick with them :r: ;-)
 

donk

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[quUOTE=Jaxspra]I am joining the "man hater" club....

[/QUOTE]

For comic relief, I am starting to think of getting myself one of the tshirts with this on it. ;)



Posted not in a misogynistic or gay way. Not that there is anything wrong with that, well maybe there is something wrong with misogyny.
 

Jaxspra

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donk said:
I am starting to think of getting myself one of the tshirts with this on it. ;)

I really need a shirt like that (of course it will be a She-woman Man Haters club) :-D .....isnt it just exhausting trying to find a decent person?? I didn't have such a negative out look before but at the moment I am discouraged and too tired to even deal with anymore of the drama....
 

Mastiff

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donk said:
or lets just be friends.
Now that is a lame line...

I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
 

Jaxspra

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Mastiff said:
Now that is a lame line...

I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
KUDOS to your friend!!!
I cannot STAND people who are mean to people, especially when they have done the hard part in walking up to someone. I am the one that stands in the corner hoping to make eye contact, never having the nerve to walk up and talk to someone. So when guys approach me, no matter what they look like (if they are being nice and not obnoxious ;-) :r: ) I will talk to them no matter what. There is no reason not to have a conversation. There are plenty of women out there that won't talk to someone based on how they look or are dressed (I have a friend or two like that) and it drives me nuts, none of us are perfect.
 

RandomPlanner

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Speaking of slightly awkward...

njm said:
... I had already applied to KTH (in Stockholm, Sweden) and was planning to go there. 18 months later I live in upstate NY,....
This is awkward to say in this thread, but...OMG -- you lived in Stockholm and now you're in CNY?? I lived in Stockholm and now I'm in CNY. We should totally be friends!
 

Michele Zone

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Mastiff said:
I'll never forget being out with a couple guys, and somehow the ugly chubby guy from the group (alcohol was involved) got up the nerve to approach a table full of very pretty women and ask one for her number. Well, instead of just being nice, she very loudly exclaims that he could never get her number, blah blah blah...

Well, when he came back just crushed, another fellow with us, probably the exact opposite of the first... tall, dashing, all that stuff, heads over. He talks to her for just a minute or so, and then shouts over the music, "Dance?! No, honey, I said you look fat in those pants!"
Reminds me of something I read where a woman embarrased some guy in a bar -- I don't recall what she said Very Loudly -- but when she came back a little while later and apologized and explained to him that it was part of an experiment for a college class, he stood up and very loudly exclaimed something like "SEVENTY FIVE DOLLARS?? ARE YOU NUTS?"

PS The whole "let's be friends" thing -- I think that's actually, on some level, an attempt to tell men that women just want to be treated like human beings, not sex objects, and want an emotional and intellectual connection first and foremost. Yes, by the time she says that, it probably means things have gone to hell and can't be worked out. But I think it often is an attempt to say that the real problem is that he is treating her like an object and like sex is the only reason to talk to her and she isn't enjoying being treated in such a dehumanizing fashion.

I am not trying to dog out men. I'm quite fond of men. But it seems to be really common that men and women don't know how to interact like human beings and get all weird about the fact that sex might, maybe, someday be part of the picture if they hit it off. I think if you worry more about the hitting it off part, the sex thing is actually a lot easier. Worrying about the sexual or romantic aspect of the relationship while overlooking the fundamental health of the relationship is putting the cart before the horse and I think that wrecks a whole lot of relationships from the get go.
 

Zoning Goddess

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Michele Zone said:
I think if you worry more about the hitting it off part, the sex thing is actually a lot easier. Worrying about the sexual or romantic aspect of the relationship while overlooking the fundamental health of the relationship is putting the cart before the horse and I think that wrecks a whole lot of relationships from the get go.
Good point. Hitting it off when it's not all about sex can save a lot of heartache down the road.

I have some very attractive friends who also get ticked when they get hit on all night just because of their looks. They don't see men going after their friends so they become paranoid, thinking nobody wants to get to know them, they just want them for their looks. (Not to say that some women aren't just going after the "hot" guys, I know that happens, too...)
 

JNL

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Tranplanner said:
Well, you should let him know you're not interested and not drag it out.
That's what I was thinking. Because I have had difficulties in the past where I was trying to be nice and not blunt but that meant it dragged out more than it should have. I have sent the email now - I just kept it simple and straightforward. I still feel kinda bad though - I hope it doesn't hurt his feelings.
 

Richmond Jake

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She's A Beauty- The Tubes

:8: Step right up and don't be shy,
because you will not believe your eyes.
She's right here behind the glass
and you're gonna like her, 'cause she's got class.
You can look inside another world.
You get to talk to a pretty girl.
She's everything you dream about...
but don't fall in love...
She's a beauty ---
one in a million girls, she's a beauty.
Why would I lie?
You can say anything you like,
but you can't touch the merchandise.
She'll give you every pennies worth,
but it will cost you a dollar first.
You can step outside your little world.
You can talk to a pretty girl.
She's everything you dream about...
but don't fall in love...
She's a beauty ---
one in a million girls, she's a beauty.
Why would I lie. :8:
 

natski

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Zoning Goddess said:
I have some very attractive friends who also get ticked when they get hit on all night just because of their looks. They don't see men going after their friends so they become paranoid, thinking nobody wants to get to know them, they just want them for their looks. (Not to say that some women aren't just going after the "hot" guys, I know that happens, too...)
I think i am one these paranoid people you talk about. But i think i am more paranoid because these guys that approach you cause they just want sex.

But then again a male friend of mine argued the other day that it is also important initally in a relationship to find someone attractive- so it may not be that the guys are shallow a**holes but do want to know you
 

Mastiff

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Michele Zone said:
The whole "let's be friends" thing -- I think that's actually, on some level, an attempt to tell men that women just want to be treated like human beings, not sex objects, and want an emotional and intellectual connection first and foremost. Yes, by the time she says that, it probably means things have gone to hell and can't be worked out. But I think it often is an attempt to say that the real problem is that he is treating her like an object and like sex is the only reason to talk to her and she isn't enjoying being treated in such a dehumanizing fashion.
You don't "tell men" all of that by saying, "Let's be friends", even if it were the case... We aren't good with subtle.

From Playing by Heart. (If you haven't seen it, it's a good movie.)

Meredith: Look, Trent, you're a nice guy. l--
Trent: Aw! Aw. That's-- You know?
Meredith: What?
Trent: I'm swimming ashore. You can call the Coast Guard.
Meredith: Oh, come on.
Trent: "Nice guy"? That's-- I haven't been dismissed with that since high school.

That's the same way we see "let's be friends"... it's simply a dismissal. If a woman really feels treated like an object and hence, dehumanized, why would she want that particular person as a friend? I would suggest she doesn't. If she's really wanting to "slow" the relationship, let her do it. I've met many women who have the "friends first" policy, but they tend only to explain it to men who they believe might one day be a partner.

Oh, and ladies... If you dress up in a tight leather mini, black pumps, and a plunging neckline, we're not going to ignore your body like we're eunics. Here's a question. If you are dressed in a provocative manner out single in a bar, would you rather.

a) Have a man talking to you and "sneaking" peeks at your body, or;

b) Have a man look at you... and really take a look not a leer... then say something like, "You look very nice tonight, might I buy you a drink and get to know you a bit?" Then not check you out again (As in... eye contact while talking) for the rest of the night.
 

btrage

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The majority of men have been treating women as "sex objects" since the beginning of mankind. It's not going to end anytime soon, so there's really no reason to make a big deal out of it. It is what it is.

That's why when you're able to find someone to spend the rest of your life with, it really is a big deal than most people realized. That's why weddings are such a big celebration :)
 

Jaxspra

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Mastiff said:
Here's a question. If you are dressed in a provocative manner out single in a bar, would you rather.

a) Have a man talking to you and "sneaking" peeks at your body, or;

b) Have a man look at you... and really take a look not a leer... then say something like, "You look very nice tonight, might I buy you a drink and get to know you a bit?" Then not check you out again (As in... eye contact while talking) for the rest of the night.
B - and this has happened to me and it is not nearly as offensive as trying to hold a conversation with someone and them not paying a bit of attention to what I am saying. Of course I dress up when I am out (no tight mini skirts) but I do it for me, I dress how I feel comfortable and confident. Taking notice of how someone looks (and telling them so) is nice (well, depending on how its said ;-) ), gawking and not making eye contact during conversation is rude....
 

Michele Zone

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Mastiff said:
You don't "tell men" all of that by saying, "Let's be friends", even if it were the case... We aren't good with subtle.
So the majority of women communicate just as poorly as the majority of men. Big deal.

As for "why would they "want" such a person as a friend?", I think because most people are used to being treated rather poorly and most of the time are faced with a choice between "half a loaf" or "starvation" -- or even worse choices. And for other reasons.

That doesn't mean they are being realistic or practical. From what I have seen, most folks really aren't that realistic or practical, especially when it comes to romantic relationships.
 

Mastiff

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Michele Zone said:
So the majority of women communicate just as poorly as the majority of men. Big deal.

As for "why would they "want" such a person as a friend?", I think because most people are used to being treated rather poorly and most of the time are faced with a choice between "half a loaf" or "starvation" -- or even worse choices. And for other reasons.

That doesn't mean they are being realistic or practical. From what I have seen, most folks really aren't that realistic or practical, especially when it comes to romantic relationships.
My point was that "let's be friends" is a lame but well understood brush off, not some code that a woman wants to be respected and not objectified...

But I'm not understanding where you went after that.... Are you saying a woman who was feeling poorly treated would rather accept it than move on and find a better person with which to share their time? If so, that's kind of sad.

However, I think they are being quite realistic and very practical, just not forthright. They don't want a romantic relationship, they want the man to back off, but because they fear the hurt feelings they actually do him a disservice.


LLOYD: Come on, give it to me straight. I drove a long way to see you, the least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?

MARY: Not good.

LLOYD: You mean not good, like one out of a hundred?

MARY: I'd say more like one out of a million.

LLOYD: So you're telling me there's a chance!

(Guess it's my day for movie quotes...)


Oh, and Jax, don't think of it as offensive at all if you can. If the fellow looked you over when he knew you'd see him, he probably wanted you to know he noticed... The whole idea is... I saw you, I liked what I saw, now can I hold a conversation with you where neither of us gets bored in two minutes.
 

Michele Zone

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Mastiff said:
My point was that "let's be friends" is a lame but well understood brush off, not some code that a woman wants to be respected and not objectified...
I don't completely agree. I know it is a "common brush off". I think there is more to it than that. But it doesn't sound to me like you really want to understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps we should drop it. I'm really not looking for an argument.
But I'm not understanding where you went after that.... Are you saying a woman who was feeling poorly treated would rather accept it than move on and find a better person with which to share their time? If so, that's kind of sad.
A lot of people do live pretty sad lives.
However, I think they are being quite realistic and very practical, just not forthright. They don't want a romantic relationship, they want the man to back off, but because they fear the hurt feelings they actually do him a disservice.
I think it is more likely that "not wanting to hurt his feelings" is really code for "not wanting to provoke him". Some men can be very nasty and dangerous when they are rejected. That may feel very unfair to the decent men who wouldn't behave in a threatening manner if she told them straight up but I think it is a legitimate concern for women, and likely will not stop shaping such behaviors any time soon.
 

Jaxspra

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Mastiff said:
Oh, and Jax, don't think of it as offensive at all if you can. If the fellow looked you over when he knew you'd see him, he probably wanted you to know he noticed... The whole idea is... I saw you, I liked what I saw, now can I hold a conversation with you where neither of us gets bored in two minutes.
I try not to and typically am not offended easily...I don't mind someone talking to me, I am a chatterbox and usually strike up conversation with about anyone when out. Checking someone out can be done subtly, and should be.
I do need to find a better place to meet guys though, in my opinion the bars are for one thing, well 2 - going out and having a good time with friends or picking someone up...but where on earth am I going to meet someone besides a bar? The grocery store? The office (well I do meet tons of guys at the office and you would think we had things in common...never seems to work that way though), I don't go to church so thats out. I think I need to just stop thinking about it, thats when you always seem to meet someone...when your least expecting it....
 

Richmond Jake

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Jaxspra said:
..... I think I need to just stop thinking about it, thats when you always seem to meet someone...when your least expecting it....
I'm hesitant to respond, but this explains alot. I'm not going into details, but this is pretty much how ZG and I got connected...I still remember hovering over the "Submit reply" button....for what seemed like an hour.
 

Mastiff

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Michele Zone said:
I don't completely agree. I know it is a "common brush off". I think there is more to it than that. But it doesn't sound to me like you really want to understand what I am trying to say. Perhaps we should drop it. I'm really not looking for an argument.
I think I do understand what you're saying, I'm just not in agreement with what you wrote about it being the end of the line because the male treated the female as a sex object. If that truly is the message some women are trying to get across, it isn't working. Take this example:

"Few phrases can shred a guy's ego faster than "Let's just be friends." Tired of being the guy all women think is a great catch, but just not the right guy for them?" - Matt Murphy of MSN Dating & Personals

But really, don't take my word for it, just google "let's just be friends" and see what you get. A couple sites actually use the acronym LJBF!

And this isn't an argument, it's just a discussion. But if you'd prefer to drop it, that's fine.

Michele Zone said:
I think it is more likely that "not wanting to hurt his feelings" is really code for "not wanting to provoke him". Some men can be very nasty and dangerous when they are rejected. That may feel very unfair to the decent men who wouldn't behave in a threatening manner if she told them straight up but I think it is a legitimate concern for women, and likely will not stop shaping such behaviors any time soon.
Now this I can easily agree with... If a woman feels any kind of threat, though, you would want it to be clear that a romantic involvement isn't going to happen, even if she lets him down easy...
 

Michele Zone

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Mastiff said:
I think I do understand what you're saying, I'm just not in agreement with what you wrote about it being the end of the line because the male treated the female as a sex object.
My impression is that we would need to first come to a better understanding of what each of us means by the expression "sex object". And, sure, there can be other reasons why a relationship doesn't work. I just think the most common issue is that most men get a lot of their ego needs and other needs met via work, friends, etc. and primarily seek out female companionship for sex. I think there is a lot of merit to the saying that "men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love". But I really don't know that I am up to such a conversation, which is unlikely to be an easy one in such a public forum.

Now this I can easily agree with... If a woman feels any kind of threat, though, you would want it to be clear that a romantic involvement isn't going to happen, even if she lets him down easy...
The problem is that a woman is most in danger of being assaulted or even dying when she LEAVES (or otherwise rejects a man). A man who has beaten his wife for years will commit murder in order to prevent her from leaving him. Even men who do not have a history of violence sometimes do very threatening things when they are rejected, especially if they are more emotionally invested than usual in the relationship.
 

Mastiff

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Michele Zone said:
My impression is that we would need to first come to a better understanding of what each of us means by the expression "sex object". And, sure, there can be other reasons why a relationship doesn't work. I just think the most common issue is that most men get a lot of their ego needs and other needs met via work, friends, etc. and primarily seek out female companionship for sex. I think there is a lot of merit to the saying that "men give love to get sex and women give sex to get love". But I really don't know that I am up to such a conversation, which is unlikely to be an easy one in such a public forum.
Not really... The reason we wouldn't need to be define the meaning of "sex object" is because it's a non-issue for me. All of what you have said may be true in the instance of an existing relationship, even a very fledgling one. The point I made, and still contend, is that a woman saying "let's just be friends" doesn't mean that at all. She most likely wants you to leave her alone. Is it because she feels like the man thinks she's a piece of meat? Maybe... But not the issue. It would just be one instance of a woman not wanting a male to persue her...

Our perfect case in point is this very thread! JNL hasn't said anything about the man in question treating her in the manner which you suggest, rather, she just has no interest. Nor, it seems, does she wish to be friends. So... were she to use Donk's suggestion (sorry Donk), she would simply be using the same hackneyed line so many men have heard... and sadly, understand.

(I didn't adress the other point since we basically agree...)
 

Michele Zone

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Mastiff said:
Not really... The reason we wouldn't need to be define the meaning of "sex object" is because it's a non-issue for me. All of what you have said may be true in the instance of an existing relationship, even a very fledgling one. The point I made, and still contend, is that a woman saying "let's just be friends" doesn't mean that at all. She most likely wants you to leave her alone. Is it because she feels like the man thinks she's a piece of meat? Maybe... But not the issue. It would just be one instance of a woman not wanting a male to persue her...

Our perfect case in point is this very thread! JNL hasn't said anything about the man in question treating her in the manner which you suggest, rather, she just has no interest. Nor, it seems, does she wish to be friends. So... were she to use Donk's suggestion (sorry Donk), she would simply be using the same hackneyed line so many men have heard... and sadly, understand.

(I didn't adress the other point since we basically agree...)
My impression is that JNL wouldn't actually want to be friends. If so, it would be an outright lie as well.

I know a lot of people, men and women, in dating situations and in other situations, use canned phrases like "Call me" when they don't mean it at all. My suggestion is that the hackneyed phrase "let's just be friends" grows subconsciously out of this other stuff -- not necessarily a direct statement about a specific relationship. I once found myself telling a guy "We used to also be friends. What happened to that? I am feeling really used here." He didn't get it. I found his company less and less pleasant. So I spent less time with him, while trying to communicate what I felt had gone wrong in hopes of fixing it because I had really liked him at one time. His reaction was to begin accusing me "there's someone else, isn't there?" -- which just alienated me all the more. To me, the accusation "there's someone else" when I was withdrawing because the relationship had become one-sided is just another expression of the idea that he was entitled to get his needs met at my expense and treat me like a "possession" or object, not a human being with needs of my own and entitled to meet them as well. It was just further proof that it was all about his needs, his rights, etc and not about an actual relationship between human beings. I think women often refer to the "friends" thing because freindship is a human relationship based on mutual benefit. A lot of romantic relationships quickly cease to be based on mutual benefit and mutual enjoyment.

Anyway, when I was trying to fix the above relationship, I was reminded of that hackneyed phrase -- "let's just be friends" -- and it seemed to me that perhaps a lot of women are trying desperately to communicate a desire for romantic relationships which are as mutually fulfilling as friendship typically is. I wasn't trying to give the guy the brush-off. I was trying to tell him what I needed from him in order to remain and continue to be willing to meet his needs.

And if that doesn't make it clear, then just chalk this up to "MZ is clearly in la la land today". I'm unbelievably tired and perhaps not communicating effectively. :-x
 

Jaxspra

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So Friday night I met up with an old friend for a few drinks (he left the Cards/Cubs game early to meet me so I didn't have to sit at the bar alone :-$ :) :a: )...anyway he's an old friend, I have known him for about 10 years and we lost touch the past few years. Met up Friday and had a great time, he called Sunday evening :) and may be going to the Cards game Wedneday night :) . May be something, may be nothing but for the first time in quite sometime I made an effort AND he's a nice guy, not the typical looser I usually find myself interested in :)

Finally I get to post in this thread about something positive :-D
 
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