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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Maister

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While I was at lunch a read a bit more regarding Kaepernick's complaint to Nike regarding the logo on the show and his concern is he says that it is a Symbol of Slavery. What does everyone else in here think. Regardless if one should or should not put the logo on a shoe, or let's say a Philadelphia 76'rs Jersey that is also produced by Nike, is the 1776 Betsy Ross flag a raciest symbol? What about the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, or the Constitution?
If it's some sort of racist symbol that's news to me.
 

WSU MUP Student

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While I was at lunch a read a bit more regarding Kaepernick's complaint to Nike regarding the logo on the show and his concern is he says that it is a Symbol of Slavery. What does everyone else in here think. Regardless if one should or should not put the logo on a shoe, or let's say a Philadelphia 76'rs Jersey that is also produced by Nike, is the 1776 Betsy Ross flag a raciest symbol? What about the Liberty Bell, Independence Hall, or the Constitution?
My theory of the complaint was way off the mark. I thought it was people were complaining that after endorsing Kaepernick, Nike had the stones to put a flag on a shoe. After reading a much better-written article about the outrage, I see that it was Kaepernick who was complaining.

That said, I don't know that I agree with his complaints that the original Betsy Ross design was a symbol of slavery other than that it was a adopted and flown during a time when slavery was still legal. Where do you draw the line? Is anything that the government did during that era automatically thrown out because of something else that was occurring?

I do stand by the Flag Code though and would still never wear an article of clothing with the flag on it, especially a shoe (or underpants).

Oh, and I'll still keep rotating through the three pair of Nikes currently in my running shoe rotation and likely replace them with more Nikes when the time comes (though there is a new pair of Hoka that have caught my eye).
 

DVD

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So I did some random reading about the thing (NYT) and I guess so racist @holes have started using Old Glory to promote their cause so the flag is now racist. I have so many problems with the whole Nike thing and what is and isn't racist. Can we get rid of obvious racist symbols like the Stars & Bars and maybe not give an F about whatever minor thing racist groups are using today like tiki torches and old versions of the flag. Also, can I not have the determining factor of what is and isn't racist be a 31 year old football player that none of the teams seem to want? Granted it seems to be the Michigan chapter of the NAACP that first said it over some high school students being dumb at a football game, but still no one really cared until some pseudo celebrity said something.
 

gtpeach

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I just think the shoe was ugly, regardless. I disagree with Kaepernick's assessment of the symbolism of Betsy Ross' flag, but it ultimately also had to be agreed upon my Nike. And they decided that it had enough merit, or that maintaining a relationship with Kaepernick was valuable enough, to pull the shoe. I don't really fault Kaepernick for what happened as much as I fault Nike for giving credence to his theory. That said, none of this is enough to make me change my view of Nike/Kaepernick one way or another.

I think American expressions of patriotism are pretty weird and over the top. I don't like to say the pledge of allegiance - I think it's a little creepy. And I hate the mixture of patriotism and Christianity. I won't sing "God Bless America," either, for that reason.

All that to say, all of that informs my (lack of) interest in what has gone down. And also, one of my aunts is very upset about this, so I'm trying really hard not to comment on her FB page.
 

michaelskis

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Ok, I am going to tell you all what I really think about this.

There are symbols of hate and racism. A statue dedicated to the confederate soldiers who died, Betsy Ross's flag, and the star spangled banner are not symbols or hate or racism anymore than a rainbow flag is a symbol of hatred towards heterosexual couples. There are without exceptions do this such as the swastika or the Pittsburgh Penguins logo, but that is beyond the point right now.

But the bigger picture is we all go around being all offended about stupid stuff. I come from a strong Irish heritage, should I be offended by the Notre Dame mascot? No... that would be stupid. He is a freaking cartoon character.

The point is perhaps we should start having thicker skin, stop being so offended by stupid stuff or finding ways to create controversy, and stop giving power to idiots who's egos are far bigger than their talents could ever be.

Personally, I have some Nike gear and the idea that they are not putting a flag on a shoe does not bug me at all as it is a violation of the Flag Code. I too do not own or wear anything that has the flag on it. I have a high quality flag detail on my vehicle, my wife's vehicle and a flag hanging from my front porch (with lighting for nighttime. What bugs me is they made their decision based on some whinny punk who could not hack it in the NFL and is riding the coat tales of a controversy.


And finally to Kaepernick I say this: [NSFW]
 
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gtpeach

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I disagree with the confederate statues assessment. If you look at when they were erected, a lot of them seem to be purposefully placed to remind black people of where they belong in society. Plus, you know, the whole issue about what the confederate side was really fighting for was problematic in and of itself...
 

michaelskis

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I disagree with the confederate statues assessment. If you look at when they were erected, a lot of them seem to be purposefully placed to remind black people of where they belong in society. Plus, you know, the whole issue about what the confederate side was really fighting for was problematic in and of itself...
How do you feel about the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC?
 

gtpeach

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How do you feel about the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in DC?
That it's a completely different scenario. For one, it was very clearly not placed there to intimidate a certain population of people into remembering their rightful place in our nation's history. Second, many of those who fought in Vietnam that are honored by the memorial did so against their own free will. Third, efforts to have it created began within five or six years of the war ending. Not decades or even CENTURIES later.
 

Dan

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Ok, I am going to tell you all what I really think about this.

...

But the bigger picture is we all go around being all offended about stupid stuff. I come from a strong Irish heritage, should I be offended by the Notre Dame mascot? No... that would be stupid. He is a freaking cartoon character.
Came here to post this.

Those on the left and right used to laugh at the Nat X character on Saturday Night Live, when he complained about Black History Month being the shortest month of the year. Now, folks are serious about it, and those of us whose politics lean left are silent.

Whenever I read about the more ridiculous aspects of outrage culture -- for example, how academics consider farmers markets racist -- it's usually from a right-leaning source. With few exceptions, left-leaning news outlets don't disavow or distance themselves from this kind of moral panic. I think it sends a message -- by not acknowledging how silly is it that people believe the American flag is racist, farmers markers are racist, craft beer is racist, Dr. Seuss stories are racist, math is racist -- implicit liberals actually believe these opinions are valid. This isn't going to help the Democrats next fall.

After Independence Day 2020, innocent people will be shamed into oblivion on Twitter and Facebook for flying a "racist" Betsy Ross flag from their homes and flagpoles. I won't be blaming this on the Republicans.

For what it's worth, the 50 star flag became official before the Civil Rights Act. Don't even try to take that flag from me.

24703
 
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michaelskis

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Came here to post this.

Those on the left and right used to laugh at the Nat X character on Saturday Night Live, when he complained about Black History Month being the shortest month of the year. Now, folks are serious about it, and those of us whose politics lean left are silent.

Whenever I read about the more ridiculous aspects of outrage culture -- for example, how academics consider farmers markets racist -- it's usually from a right-leaning source. With few exceptions, left-leaning news outlets don't disavow or distance themselves from this kind of moral panic. I think it sends a message -- by not acknowledging how silly is it that people believe the American flag is racist, farmers markers are racist, craft beer is racist, Dr. Seuss stories are racist, math is racist -- implicit liberals actually believe these opinions are valid. This isn't going to help the Democrats next fall.

After Independence Day 2020, innocent people will be shamed into oblivion on Twitter and Facebook for flying a "racist" Betsy Ross flag from their homes and flagpoles. I won't be blaming this on the Republicans.

For what it's worth, the 50 star flag became official before the Civil Rights Act. Don't even try to take that flag from me.

View attachment 24703
I agree 100% with everything you said.


As for the Vietnam Memorial, I disagree that it is completely different. Those soldiers returned and were publicly shunned and made to feel disgraced because of the war. In many ways you are doing the same thing to the memory of Confederate Soldiers. It was a battle of bother vs brother, father vs son, and it almost ripped the US into two. I don’t disagree that there were some of those situations where they were put up for a sinister reason, but why toss out the entire harvest for a few bad apples? Should all the Confederate Monuments at Gettysburg be removed too?
 

DVD

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The difference between Vietnam and Confederate statues is that Vietnam memorials were not placed explicitly to subjugate a group of people. I'll get my history wrong without google, but most of the statues were placed around civil rights times to remind/haze black voters of their place in society. Vietnam memorials are also viewed by society as a point of honor when they were built and today. We are honoring people who died in service of their country even if we don't all believe in the cause of the war. The Confederate soldiers also died for their country, but they lost. So our country is honoring people who fought against our county, but I'm rambling. The bigger picture is that the confederacy stands for allowing slavery to a lot of people where Vietnam does not stand for denigrating the Vietnamese. Granted I would be okay with some kind of educational memorial. Something that reminds us of our history. We can't shy away from the bad things we've done as a country.
 

Bubba

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...most of the statues were placed around civil rights times to remind/haze black voters of their place in society.
Most were placed during the Jim Crow era - there was a secondary/smaller surge during the Civil Rights era. Just FWIW.
 

gtpeach

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Not far from where I live, in Appomattox, VA, is the American Civil War Museum. I haven't been, but the premise is to tell the story of the Civil War from several different perspectives. This is their mission from their website: "The mission of The American Civil War Museum is to be the preeminent center for the exploration of the American Civil War and its legacies from multiple perspectives: Union and Confederate, enslaved and free African Americans, soldiers and civilians." I 100% have no issues with this. There is a place to remember our nation's history.

I read up a lot about the Vietnam Memorial yesterday after Michaelskis posted the question. It was very clear that it was intended to be, from the very beginning, apolitical. It came from a man who had been in the Vietnam War and saw many of his friends die in an explosion. He wanted the memorial to promote healing for the soldiers that were returning to a hostile environment. The premise all along was to honor the warriors, and not the war. It was erected with a LOT of public input. The design was selected from a public competition, and the winner was a 21-year-old female Yale student of Asian descent. There was a committee of experts in art, architecture, and landscape design that chose the design from thousands of submissions.

All that to say, the process of deciding how to honor the soldiers, with the clear intent that no one wanted to honor the war itself, with a huge public input process, makes the Vietnam Memorial considerably different than the confederate statues that are placed all over the south.
 

AG74683

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Most were placed during the Jim Crow era - there was a secondary/smaller surge during the Civil Rights era. Just FWIW.
Either way, the argument stands. Confederate monuments were largely placed to antagonize African American's.

I was watching a video of a contractor who got fired by some folks because he had a Confederate flag on the back of his truck. I always remember that Cleveland Show joke about it where Lester and Cleveland got in an argument about race related stuff. At the end, they made up, but Cleveland was angry that Lester still had the Confederate flag up on the side of his house. "Confederate flag? What's that? That's my Dukes of Hazzard flag!".
 

michaelskis

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As I noted above, there was without question some situations where they were put up for a sinister reason. I have personally witnessed it go way too far here locally.

What do you think would be an appropriate way to honor confederate soldiers or do you think that aspect of history and their memory should be erased? What perimeters would you suggest that one take into consideration when determining if a statue or monument is appropriate or not?
 

AG74683

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What do you think would be an appropriate way to honor confederate soldiers or do you think that aspect of history and their memory should be erased? What perimeters would you suggest that one take into consideration when determining if a statue or monument is appropriate or not?
We don't. It's that simple. Civil War monuments shouldn't be Confederate or Union monuments, they should be Civil War monuments with everyone represented equally. At the end of the day, everyone who died was an American, so it's irrelevant what side they represented.

The Civil War was the darkest time in our entire history as a nation, and it should not be glorified. It should be respected for what it was, but shouldn't be put on some sort of pedestal for all to see.
 

michaelskis

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We don't. It's that simple. Civil War monuments shouldn't be Confederate or Union monuments, they should be Civil War monuments with everyone represented equally. At the end of the day, everyone who died was an American, so it's irrelevant what side they represented.

The Civil War was the darkest time in our entire history as a nation, and it should not be glorified. It should be respected for what it was, but shouldn't be put on some sort of pedestal for all to see.
Just so I understand, the individual monuments such as the Monument to the 24th Michigan Infantry which fought at Gettysburg should be taken down? I am not disagreeing with your concept, I am just trying to better understand the potential ramifications of this idea.
 

AG74683

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Just so I understand, the individual monuments such as the Monument to the 24th Michigan Infantry which fought at Gettysburg should be taken down? I am not disagreeing with your concept, I am just trying to better understand the potential ramifications of this idea.
Unpopular opinion, but yes. If it were for a Confederate infantry division, it'd either already be taken down, or subject to some sort of crazy debate. It has to be equitable, you cannot have one without the other. A monument that adequately represents BOTH sides would be reasonable.
 

michaelskis

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Unpopular opinion, but yes. If it were for a Confederate infantry division, it'd either already be taken down, or subject to some sort of crazy debate. It has to be equitable, you cannot have one without the other. A monument that adequately represents BOTH sides would be reasonable.

You mean a confederate statute kind of like the North Carolina Memorial? My point is Gettysburg has both and to the best of my understanding will continue to have both. The Confederate memorials did not come until much later and over half of them have been erected since 1980.
 

michaelskis

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Battlefields like Gettysburg are great for educating and memorializing. State court houses are not. Unless that's where some big thing happened.
I will support that position. I would also add in that museums that can provide an overview of the context are more appropriate than the green of a college campus.
 

michaelskis

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I do stand by the Flag Code though and would still never wear an article of clothing with the flag on it, especially a shoe (or underpants).
Here is a question that came up yesterday while at a party... is it that the Flag should not be worn as clothing, or is it that clothing should not have the resemblance of a flag. The code states:

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.

It also says:
(j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

What are your thoughts? I am on the fence and can see both sides of the argument.
 

DVD

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Obviously the flag itself should never be used as anything but a flag, but who would wrap themselves in a flag off a pole?

If you take a hard line on the rule, printing the image of a flag on clothing makes it a flag and should not be done. So no flag ties, shirts, shorts, or worse.
 

luckless pedestrian

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Like many things, it's a straight face test - like most laws, it answer the questions related to not being an asshole...

Underwear? not illegal, maybe, not sure, but tasteless, yes
Those people who fly flags off their pickups I think does denigrate the flag because they get ripped to shreds and look like hell - I don't understand why they don't see that
A t shirt with a flag on it you wear for the 4th of July parade/party/fireworks? it's fine
On the back of a shoe, it's fine -

It's to say the flag is a symbol of our country and should be treated with respect

Those other flags mean nothing in terms of rules of the country, there's only one flag - government buildings should only fly Old Glory and the state flag, and adjacent countries' flags if they want (we have many Canadian flags flying alongside Old Glory and the Maine flag here, especially at tourist centers and it's fine)

I do think it's weird when some New England born-and-raised person has a Confederate flag on their pick up - I think it shows a lack of respect to their history of all of the Maine regiments that fought in the Civil War, but illegal? no
 

Richmond Jake

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“Our Army manned the air, it rammed the ramparts, it took over airports, it did everything it had to do,” in the Revolutionary War. It was easy because there were no TSA agents then.
 

Gedunker

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I'm pretty much a Flag Code fanatic - so much so I called the local library to read them the riot act once for flying the national emblem half staff, while the adjacent state and local flags flew at full staff. I regularly inform architects/engineers when their site plans don't display the colors according to the Flag Code. I shake my head every time I see Hoosiers and the flag is displayed with the canton in the upper right while hanging in the Huskers' gym. When POTUS 44 was elected, a local Catholic school got a pointed phone call from me for flying the flag in the inverted position - a signal of extreme distress and NOT a permissible form of political protest. I do tend to think of the people flying the Confederate Stars and Bars as losers - not necessarily as people themselves, but rather as supporters of the defeated enemy of the Republic.

I tend to agree with my father - people that disrespect the flag generally are unable to mount a cogent argument against whatever it is they oppose and are simply trying to shock.
 

DVD

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I tend to go with the more European attitude - mom is German - why they hell are you putting flags on everything and every building. Flags only belong at important public buildings and places. By having every idiot fly a flag at the car dealership, house, car, show you disrespect the flag. You're not hanging that flag to be patriotic, you're hanging that flag to brag somehow. It's harsh and it's care too much about people wearing flags on the 4th or the guy down the street that has his flag up with the Marine Corp flag. We all love our country, but you're just trying to say you love it more and by doing so you make the flag a common thing and less the symbol it is.
 

michaelskis

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I tend to go with the more European attitude - mom is German - why they hell are you putting flags on everything and every building. Flags only belong at important public buildings and places. By having every idiot fly a flag at the car dealership, house, car, show you disrespect the flag. You're not hanging that flag to be patriotic, you're hanging that flag to brag somehow. It's harsh and it's care too much about people wearing flags on the 4th or the guy down the street that has his flag up with the Marine Corp flag. We all love our country, but you're just trying to say you love it more and by doing so you make the flag a common thing and less the symbol it is.
I have been thinking more about your comment and while I agree 100% with the idea of using it to attract attention for a commercial purpose and that it should be consistent with the flag code, we are not European. We are American. Germany had substantial higher sense of national pride in the 1800s and early 1900s but was more or less eliminated after the world wars.

We live in a society where there are visible brand labels on nearly everything. The cars we drive, the shoes we wear, the watches we wear and accessory’s we carry.

I agree that there is a significant difference in being excessive with their expressions and I think they are disgracing the symbolism behind the flag. However I don’t think there is anything wrong with flying the flag on your house, wearing a flag lapel pin, or even having a flag decal or patch on a vehicle or clothing if it is being shown to say I am proud of what America stands for and the principals that it was founded on.
 

WSU MUP Student

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It's harsh and it's care too much about people wearing flags on the 4th or the guy down the street that has his flag up with the Marine Corp flag. We all love our country, but you're just trying to say you love it more and by doing so you make the flag a common thing and less the symbol it is.

Them's fightin' words! I have my EGA flying almost all year long!

FWIW, I always keep an eye out for military flags when I am running or driving through residential neighborhoods and for every Army, Navy, or Air Force flag I see flying in front of somebody's house, I can usually count 10 Marine Corps flags. We are a proud bunch.
 

DVD

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I knew I could catch some WSU with that bait. Marines always needed something to remind them they aren't just an adjunct of the Navy.

I honestly don't care much about some guy needing a flag in his yard. You just won't see me flying one other than Memorial Day and other holidays it's needed. I don't stand around on the roof at Christmas waving a flag to get Santa's attention. He knows where I'm at. He also knows what I've done so I get skipped a lot.

Now just to bait Mskies, what are those American values? Ever notice that outside of people who have served the ones flying the American flag from their truck, etc. believe in 'Merica. That value comes off as pride to me and if I remember right that's one of them sins.
 

luckless pedestrian

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I think if pride is at the expense of others, then yes, it's one of the deadly sins - but simple pride of putting up the flag (what we do) from Memorial Day to Veteran's Day then down for the winter is fine - acting like a crazed football fan chanting USA in people's faces, not illegal, but definitely trying to exist at the expense of others

the only time a USA chant is appropriate is at the Women's World Cup - that is, a sports event - but when it's done at political rallies, it's a little frightening
 

Planit

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I do think it's weird when some New England born-and-raised person has a Confederate flag on their pick up - I think it shows a lack of respect to their history of all of the Maine regiments that fought in the Civil War, but illegal? no

This is a serious issue IMHO. The Confederate Battle Flag (red field, blue 'x' with white stars) has been hijacked by the racist crowds & now stands more for racist views than Confederate heritage. Just as the swastika was hijacked by the Nazis. Originally the swastika was a symbol of good luck, now it will never again be seen as such.
 

mendelman

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This is a serious issue IMHO. The Confederate Battle Flag (red field, blue 'x' with white stars) has been hijacked by the racist crowds & now stands more for racist views than Confederate heritage. Just as the swastika was hijacked by the Nazis. Originally the swastika was a symbol of good luck, now it will never again be seen as such.
Also agree. I grewup around a bunch of northern Rednecks in northern MI with confederate flags on their jacked up trucks that likely had never been in OH let alone south of Saginaw, MI. I knew then in high school that it was less 'pride' and more racism. Dopes.
 

AG74683

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hijacked by the racist crowds & now stands more for racist views than Confederate heritage.
But wasn't Confederate heritage based on racist views to begin with? I mean back then it probably wasn't seen as "racist" or even wrong to own slaves or treat African American's differently because people just didn't understand or believe it was wrong, but at the end of the day, those views (even if seen as perfectly acceptable then) are still racist.
 

Maister

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While I'm sure there are those who consider the confederate battle flag as a symbol of southern heritage, and others a symbol of racism, I think there's a third group that consider it a symbol of - for lack of a better term - badassness...yeah I'm a rebel and if you don't like it you can just eff off. Hand me another Bud while I put this Skoal sticker on the back of my F-150, oh and turn up that Clint Black song that's playing on the radio. The flag in this case is simply one of a series of symbols that have been adopted by a subculture, and is no different than the inner city teen wearing a 'Basketball, Cadillacs and Cash' tee shirt, backwards ball cap, sagging shorts, and FUBU shoes. The irony, of course, being that this act of 'rebellion' in such instances is actually an institutional/prescribed part of the subculture and its' display an act of conformity required to self-identify within the group.

Now if you'll excuse me I've got to put my fedora on and take off my trench coat so everyone I'm playing Dungeons & Dragons with can see my cool new Gandalf tee shirt. Damn, this neck beard is scratchy...
 

AG74683

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While I'm sure there are those who consider the confederate battle flag as a symbol of southern heritage, and others a symbol of racism, I think there's a third group that consider it a symbol of - for lack of a better term - badassness...yeah I'm a rebel and if you don't like it you can just eff off. Hand me another Bud while I put this Skoal sticker on the back of my F-150, oh and turn up that Clint Black song that's playing on the radio.
I think you're right, and I think that third group is the overwhelming majority of those who slap that flag on everything they can find.
 

Veloise

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So I did some random reading about the thing (NYT) and I guess so racist @holes have started using Old Glory to promote their cause so the flag is now racist. I have so many problems with the whole Nike thing and what is and isn't racist. Can we get rid of obvious racist symbols like the Stars & Bars and maybe not give an F about whatever minor thing racist groups are using today like tiki torches and old versions of the flag. Also, can I not have the determining factor of what is and isn't racist be a 31 year old football player that none of the teams seem to want? Granted it seems to be the Michigan chapter of the NAACP that first said it over some high school students being dumb at a football game, but still no one really cared until some pseudo celebrity said something.
Something similar happened to the Gadsden flag. "In recent years, the Gadsden flag has become a favorite among Tea Party enthusiasts, Second Amendment zealots—really anyone who gets riled up by the idea of government overreach." (excellent article at the link)


I routinely appear at protests with a similar image.

Glad I did some research before an event where a young Black student contested it, and I could relate some historical context for him.
 

MD Planner

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There was a news story a few months ago about a police department in California (I think) that has the American flag on their vehicles. There was actually debate about removing the flag because some people felt "uncomfortable". Thankfully there was actually enough common sense to not overreact for a change. Ummm, hello. You're IN America, you should probably expect to the see the nation's flag a lot of places. We have real honest to God problems in this country; why we spend so much time and energy on the cosmetic ones is beyond me.
 

michaelskis

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There was a news story a few months ago about a police department in California (I think) that has the American flag on their vehicles. There was actually debate about removing the flag because some people felt "uncomfortable". Thankfully there was actually enough common sense to not overreact for a change. Ummm, hello. You're IN America, you should probably expect to the see the nation's flag a lot of places. We have real honest to God problems in this country; why we spend so much time and energy on the cosmetic ones is beyond me.
There was just a case where there were 6 police officers having coffee in a Starbucks in AZ and when someone went up to the counter and demanded that the store do something because it make that person feel uncomfortable, so the Barista went up to these 4 officers and in a very polite way asked them to either leave, or move so they were not within this person's sight. (LINK TO NPR STORY) The officers departed without issue.

What are your thoughts on this situation? Now before you go all "Trump Immigration Policy" I am going to stop you right there because I think that argument is a load of crap and I know that you can do better than that.

What I will say is we live in a hyper sensitive society that needs to toughen up. Many of us in here are bashed and attacked on social and regular medias on a daily basis because we are doing our job and doing them well. But people are so busy searching for something to be offended about that they won't take the time to notice the overwhelming things that they should be grateful about.
 

DVD

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I understand the problems of police officers and racial profiling and the whole walking while black thing or at least as able as a privileged white guy can understand it, but police officers having drinks in a Starbucks should not "make you uncomfortable" unless you are nervous about something that they might want to know about. Generally Phoenix metro area police are pretty chill and we don't get a lot of problems so right or wrong I'm going to say the other person needs to suck it up.

On a side note, when I worked a cigar store we had a bunch of officers and detectives that would stop in for a smoke. We made sure they got discounts (never told them, just did it) and I used to mock this giant officer who smoked tiny mango cigarillos. I also gave him better things to try, but I still mocked him. We felt having the police around made out store a little safer, understood that one happy beat cop told a bunch of friends, and the customers generally liked hearing some of the stories they told. Also, they were good people.
 

Gedunker

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Maybe the customer uncomfortable with the cops was on the autism spectrum...
 

dw914er

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There was a news story a few months ago about a police department in California (I think) that has the American flag on their vehicles. There was actually debate about removing the flag because some people felt "uncomfortable". Thankfully there was actually enough common sense to not overreact for a change. Ummm, hello. You're IN America, you should probably expect to the see the nation's flag a lot of places. We have real honest to God problems in this country; why we spend so much time and energy on the cosmetic ones is beyond me.
It was Laguna Beach Police. I have no idea why it was a story.
 

Bubba

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Mick Jagger Mocks Pres. Trump's Revolutionary War Airport Gaffe During Foxborough Show: Watch
Speaking of the Rolling Stones...

Alice Cooper on rock stars and politics: "I absolutely hate it. It’s the worst idea ever. First of all, why do people think rock stars know more than they do? That is the biggest fallacy in the world – if anything, we’re dumber. We’re not smarter than anybody else. I mean, why do you think we’re rock stars?...Trust me, we don’t read magazines you don’t read. Nobody calls us up and gives us as inside information on politics. We know less than you do. If I watch TV, it’s Family Guy...When my mom and dad talked about who to vote for, I’d go in the other room and put on the Beatles or Rolling Stones – and I’m still like that."
 

luckless pedestrian

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Speaking of the Rolling Stones...

Alice Cooper on rock stars and politics: "I absolutely hate it. It’s the worst idea ever. First of all, why do people think rock stars know more than they do? That is the biggest fallacy in the world – if anything, we’re dumber. We’re not smarter than anybody else. I mean, why do you think we’re rock stars?...Trust me, we don’t read magazines you don’t read. Nobody calls us up and gives us as inside information on politics. We know less than you do. If I watch TV, it’s Family Guy...When my mom and dad talked about who to vote for, I’d go in the other room and put on the Beatles or Rolling Stones – and I’m still like that."
I see that but I also see the irony of many parents pushing their kids into drama and music because it "makes them smarter" but if someone does it for a living after years of study, then they suddenly become dumb?

I do think Alice Cooper is right that some musicians/actors-actresses are just in it to win it but many people that study it for years have synapse connections from that study that make them assuredly able to have a sound and informed decision to share and if they also have celebrity status, then they have the podium to speak from that many of us do not have
 

Bubba

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I see that but I also see the irony of many parents pushing their kids into drama and music because it "makes them smarter" but if someone does it for a living after years of study, then they suddenly become dumb?

I do think Alice Cooper is right that some musicians/actors-actresses are just in it to win it but many people that study it for years have synapse connections from that study that make them assuredly able to have a sound and informed decision to share and if they also have celebrity status, then they have the podium to speak from that many of us do not have
Eh, I just posted that because A. It's always amused me, and B. He specifically mentioned the Rolling Stones.
 
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