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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

MD Planner

Cyburbian
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25
However, I will also argue in support of that rural america is more informed now than at any point in history thanks to today's technology. Anyone can log into a campaign website to understand the ideas and theories of a particular candidate within a moments notice. They can also watch or live stream debates, speeches, and commentary from a wide range of pundits. They no longer get to the ballot box and look down at several foreign names for president whereas in the late 1700's that was the case in rural America.
Yes, you're right. They can. But they don't. I am certain that we are the most entertained and least informed era of America that's ever existed. Even with all the opportunities that exist to gather information.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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14,868
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40
I just have to put this somewhere that it can be read again....

The Independent said:
“Let me tell you. In six years – or maybe 10 or maybe 14, right? – in six years, when I’m not here, the New York Times goes out of business very quickly.”

The suggestion he could continue as president beyond 2025 – when he would be required by the constitution to step down – appeared likely a joke, albeit one he has repeated with increasing regularity in recent months.

It also came on a day in which Mr Trump, even by his standards, dominated the news agenda by veering wildly between partisan attacks, blatant mistruths, and authoritarian proposals.

On Wednesday, he:

 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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27,184
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61
Yes, you're right. They can. But they don't. I am certain that we are the most entertained and least informed era of America that's ever existed. Even with all the opportunities that exist to gather information.
In some ways, the sheer volume of information available is ironically one of the central problems facing low information voters. They aren't low information because they don't have access, but rather lack training in critical thinking skills and are hopelessly overwhelmed by all the data, and are often lacking the educational background to know how to be able to place that information into any meaningful context. And so in the face of all that, they essentially 'retreat' to the single media source relying on them to tell them a narrative that will somehow make sense to them.
 
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JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,819
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51
What a Headlines -

Donald Trump can't just 'hereby order' whatever he wants

‘I hereby order’: Internet drowns Trump in mockery over his unhinged China meltdown
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,749
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34
I saw that article earlier today and as I clicked to open the link I was repeating in my head - ...don't be my hometown, don't be my hometown...
It's not far from my hometown (and where my orthodontist was). While St. Clair County is no bastion of liberal ideals, the cities there along the water (Port Huron, St. Clair, Marine City...) have always felt a lot more progressive than what you would expect in similar sized communities that are in primarily rural counties. Marysville was always sort of the outlier and felt a lot more insular than those other cities. I always chalked it up primarily to commuting patterns and a lack of interaction with the more urban and suburban areas of the Detroit Metro. Other than a funeral and a stop for gasoline, I haven't been to Marysville in probably 20+ years even though I drive right past it quite regularly. It doesn't sound like much has changed.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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19,387
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Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,598
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28
Look at the reporters Channel 4 sent to cover this nonsense (the one holding the mic told her, "I'm an immigrant"). WXYZ's coverage: one of the reporters told her, "I'm English, and my wife is Canadian." :troll: :troll: :troll: :troll:

She's managed to get coverage in WaPo, NYTimes, TIME, and even Snopes. Not to mention the local TV stations.

Took me about 30 seconds to find her address. She lives around the corner from City Hall (bet she drives there) and used to live in Rochester. Down the block and across the St Clair River, less than a mile away, is ... a foreign country!

The mayor pro tem -- her father was an immigrant, and the council meeting room is named after him. Her son-in-law is Black, and her grands are bi-racial. Of course shis crazy old lady weighed in on that, too.

On the bright side, voter turn-out here and anywhere nearby is likely to not be apathetic this time. Likely get some new voter registrations too.
 
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michaelskis

Cyburbian
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19,387
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43
As some of you are aware, there are significant fires burning in the Amazon and if they continue, they would have catastrophic global impacts to our biodiversity and overall environment. Next week the G7 will discuss it. But the question is what do you think that we as the US can do to help the situation? What would you like to see Trump do? Personally, this is a situation that I think we need to get involved in even though it is not on US ground as the impacts to health will directly impact everyone on the globe.
 

Suburb Repairman

moderator in moderation
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30
As some of you are aware, there are significant fires burning in the Amazon and if they continue, they would have catastrophic global impacts to our biodiversity and overall environment. Next week the G7 will discuss it. But the question is what do you think that we as the US can do to help the situation? What would you like to see Trump do? Personally, this is a situation that I think we need to get involved in even though it is not on US ground as the impacts to health will directly impact everyone on the globe.
Maybe stop enabling the Brazilian President, who has Trump-like abilities as a pathological liar. Maybe stop denying human impacts to climate change. Maybe stop undermining environmental policies himself, and stop his cabinet profiteers from doing the same. Maybe stop gutting science from the government. :daydream:

What I think the U.S. could practically assist with:
  • investigation into cause (we're pretty good at that)
  • potentially send additional forest fire personnel beyond just the air tankers
  • Adopt punitive policies to address mining/ag activity in the Amazon; incentivize better, more sustainable behavior (I like carrots alongside sticks)
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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61
The US should help by pressuring the Brazilian government to enforce their environmental protections. They did pretty good for a time but fires from slash and burn agriculture have risen dramatically this year. The US should also be willing to help contribute financially to assist the Brazilian government to preserve this incredibly important global resource. I mean we spend hundreds of billions contributing financially/militarily to help other countries preserve (our access to) petroleum reserves, why should we not help with something that will actually benefit the world?

As for what would I like to see Trump do? This is a moot point. The mechanisms driving climate change don't exist in his mind. It's fake news to him. He does not care about the future of the earth. All he cares about is improving his re-election prospects in 2020. Fighting battles for preserving the environment or looking to preserve things outside of our national boundaries would be anathema to both he and his base.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Joe Walsh launches a Repub. primary campaign against the Pres.

I don't know if he's stable or crazy, but maybe some crazy against crazy can cancel each other out and/or invoke mutually assured destruction.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,598
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28
Look at the reporters Channel 4 sent to cover this nonsense (the one holding the mic told her, "I'm an immigrant"). WXYZ's coverage: one of the reporters told her, "I'm English, and my wife is Canadian." :troll: :troll: :troll: :troll:

She's managed to get coverage in WaPo, NYTimes, TIME, and even Snopes. Not to mention the local TV stations.

Took me about 30 seconds to find her address. She lives around the corner from City Hall (bet she drives there) and used to live in Rochester. Down the block and across the St Clair River, less than a mile away, is ... a foreign country!

The mayor pro tem -- her father was an immigrant, and the council meeting room is named after him. Her son-in-law is Black, and her grands are bi-racial. Of course shis crazy old lady weighed in on that, too.

On the bright side, voter turn-out here and anywhere nearby is likely to not be apathetic this time. Likely get some new voter registrations too.
She's dropped out of the race. :up:
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,819
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51
the character of some candidates for office ?

Michigan city council candidate who wanted to keep community as white "as possible" leaves race

Ex-Sheriff Joe Arpaio Wants to Bring Back His Brutal Tent City
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
13,812
Points
40
Tent city wasn't that bad of an idea when it first started. Granted you can't do it in cold climates, but here you can house low level criminals in tents, just make sure they have enough water. They had a couple buildings with AC and plenty of fans. It discouraged idiots from drinking and driving and things like that. A lot of people were work release or weekend jail people, but the dumb ass started into his crap and made it a racial thing. He's a sucker to say any stupid thing he can just to get his greasy head on TV and I hope the voters here are smart enough to ignore him, but there are a lot of retirees that think he walks on water. I will point out most of them come from the midwest and there seem to be a lot of Wisconsin fans (I was going to make fun of tOSU or Michigan, but it's not accurate this time).
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,819
Points
51
‘Take the land’: President Trump wants a border wall. He wants it black. And he wants it by Election Day.

has directed aides to fast-track billions of dollars’ worth of construction contracts, aggressively seize private land and disregard environmental rules, according to current and former officials involved with the project.

He also has told worried subordinates that he will pardon them of any potential wrongdoing should they have to break laws to get the barriers built quickly, those officials said.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,870
Points
37
So it the last 2 days, pResident tRump tweeted:

"Fox News isn't working for us anymore"

Declared this is the "Age of tRump"




Thoughts & Prayers folks!
 

gtpeach

Cyburbian
Messages
1,994
Points
17
I don't think the federal government can pre-empt local regulations here, though, right? I realize the penalties for local zoning violations can be really minimal comparatively, but I still think they'd have jurisdiction. And courts can enforce that if the violations were pursued to a high enough level.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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41
I don't think the federal government can pre-empt local regulations here, though, right? I realize the penalties for local zoning violations can be really minimal comparatively, but I still think they'd have jurisdiction. And courts can enforce that if the violations were pursued to a high enough level.
My understanding is that all Federally owned property is automatically exempt from all local (municipal and State) regulations due to the Supremacy clause in the US Constitution.

In IL and OH, where I've worked, we have never been permitted to regulate the land use of such property.

Now, a Federal facility renting a privately owned property is an entirely different scenario.

But, also due to the US Constitution, the Federal government can't unilaterally take private property without the proper eminent domain process. That's the fundamental illegality of the situation.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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19,387
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My understanding is that all Federally owned property is automatically exempt from all local (municipal and State) regulations due to the Supremacy clause in the US Constitution.

In IL and OH, where I've worked, we have never been permitted to regulate the land use of such property.

Now, a Federal facility renting a privately owned property is an entirely different scenario.

But, also due to the US Constitution, the Federal government can't unilaterally take private property without the proper eminent domain process. That's the fundamental illegality of the situation.
A legal perspective from the UNC School of Government states:
The land and facilities of the federal government are not subject to local zoning. Under Supremacy Clause, federal agencies not required to comply with local land use regulations. Federal law encourages the General Services Administration (GSA) to coordinate federal agency land acquisition, use, and disposition with local zoning in urban areas. 40 U.S.C. § 531 (2006). The GSA is directed to carry out its work “to the greatest extent practicable,” consistent with zoning and land use practices. The administrator is directed, “to the extent he determines practicable,” to comply with zoning in the acquisition or change of use of any real property in an urban area. 40 U.S.C. § 533 (2006). But if the federal government concludes it is appropriate to override local zoning, it can do so.
I understand why it is in place, however it is not something that I am a super fan of.
 

mendelman

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A legal perspective from the UNC School of Government states:


I understand why it is in place, however it is not something that I am a super fan of.
Well, in many State constitutions, the State is exempt from local regulation as well.

Also, many public school districts and State unis are exempt from them as well. I know that in IL and MI the school districts are exempt from land use regulations, but here in OH, they are not.
 

Gedunker

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To anyone that has dealt with eminent domain issues, relocation (presumably), and environmental review, this is beyond frustrating.:mad:
 

DVD

Cyburbian
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13,812
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40
What a lot of people keep forgetting is that a good portion of the land, at least in Arizona, is tribal land. There is no eminent domain clause to take tribal land and they ain't gonna let you build the wall. Beyond the political, it actually goes to their religious beliefs. Good luck with that.
 

AG74683

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Not only do you have the tribes to deal with, you also have incredibly old deeds and land records, some dating back to when Spain controlled Texas and areas of the southwest. Finding and tracing these records is not an easy task.

There is the added fact that in many cases, a border wall won't even follow the border. It'll be miles away.
 

kjel

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34
Eroding birthright citizenship....


I was thinking this morning how I thought a couple of years ago that it would take several decades for President Obama to be recognized as a truly a great president (that timeline seems to have shortened dramatically) but now the real question is how long will it take America to recover from the Trump presidency.

And his Twitter tirade that FOX isn't working for "us" (GOP?) anymore. Even as shitty as I think FOX is they are still media independent of the government. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fox-news-donald-trump-tweet-fox-isnt-working-for-us-anymore-2019-08-28/
 

DVD

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Yeah a section of that removes the automatic citizenship for children of military service members serving abroad. The parents now have to apply for citizenship for the children. Way to take care of the military.
 

WSU MUP Student

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Yeah a section of that removes the automatic citizenship for children of military service members serving abroad. The parents now have to apply for citizenship for the children. Way to take care of the military.
It only removes the birthright citizenship for children of military service members who are themselves naturalized citizens and haven't lived in the U.S. (not counting overseas bases) at least X number of days over Y years (I don't recall the exact numbers).

I'm not defending the policy (I do not agree with the policy change), just adding a bit of clarification.
 

kjel

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It only removes the birthright citizenship for children of military service members who are themselves naturalized citizens and haven't lived in the U.S. (not counting overseas bases) at least X number of days over Y years (I don't recall the exact numbers).

I'm not defending the policy (I do not agree with the policy change), just adding a bit of clarification.
It doesn't differentiate if the military parent was naturalized or born in the US. The link I posted has the proposed changes.

Chapter 2, Section F is wholly new. It doesn't currently exist and adds a "residency test" which impacts MANY people living abroad whether they work for the US government/Military or not.

Chapter 5, Section E currently reads:

E. Application for Citizenship and Issuance of Certificate under Section 322 (Form N-600K)
A U.S. citizen parent of a biological, legitimated, or adopted child born outside of the United States who did not acquire citizenship automatically may file an Application for Citizenship and Issuance of Certificate Under Section 322 (Form N-600K) for the child to become a U.S. citizen and obtain a Certificate of Citizenship. The application may be filed from outside of the United States.

If the U.S. citizen parent has died, the child's U.S. citizen grandparent or U.S. citizen legal guardian may submit the application, provided the application is filed not more than five years after the death of the U.S. citizen parent. [13]

The child of a U.S. citizen member of the U.S. armed forces accompanying his or her parent abroad on official orders may be eligible to complete all aspects of the naturalization proceedings abroad. This includes interviews, filings, oaths, ceremonies, or other proceedings relating to citizenship and naturalization.


The changes now apply the aforementioned residency test.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
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13,812
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40
I'm just saying people that volunteer to defend your country should not be worried about if their child is a citizen just because they live in Germany for the time being. They have more important things to think about.
 

michaelskis

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19,387
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43
I'm just saying people that volunteer to defend your country should not be worried about if their child is a citizen just because they live in Germany for the time being. They have more important things to think about.
I agree and I really question what the government is thinking about with this one.
 

gtpeach

Cyburbian
Messages
1,994
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17
My understanding is that all Federally owned property is automatically exempt from all local (municipal and State) regulations due to the Supremacy clause in the US Constitution.

In IL and OH, where I've worked, we have never been permitted to regulate the land use of such property.

Now, a Federal facility renting a privately owned property is an entirely different scenario.

But, also due to the US Constitution, the Federal government can't unilaterally take private property without the proper eminent domain process. That's the fundamental illegality of the situation.
I think this is where I'm getting hung up. Would they actually be acquiring ownership of all the land that they'd be putting the wall on? Or would they be getting easements from private land owners? And then if they just have an easement versus actually acquiring the land, wouldn't local governments still be able to regulate development? And then eminent domain proceedings have to go through courts, correct? So the courts would have to determine that there was justification to take the property and that the compensation was fair...

It just seems like there are a number of protections in place to prevent this. And from a conservative perspective, it seems to create a lot of conflicts between support for the wall and then conservatives typically being pretty concerned about individual property rights...
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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It just seems like there are a number of protections in place to prevent this. And from a conservative perspective, it seems to create a lot of conflicts between support for the wall and then conservatives typically being pretty concerned about individual property rights...
Yep. This sums up the current cognitive dissidence and hypocrisy of the current Republican right.

And all your other questions are part of the reason Trump's spouting with this "get it done" mentality is ludicrous and objectively not legal, unless we want to 'habeas corpus' parts of the US Constitution's 5th amendment, which is a really bad idea.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,870
Points
37
Read this carefully - Federal DOJ are looking into 4 car companies who agree to follow California's high fuel economy standards that tRump has lowered.

https://jalopnik.com/feds-launch-antitrust-investigation-into-four-car-compa-1837929148

In other words, tRump is trying to keep car companies from volunteering to meet high fuel economy standards than what's allowed to get by...ain't that some $hit.
Aren't there bigger problems in this country to work on?
 

Hink

OH....IO
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14,868
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Read this carefully - Federal DOJ are looking into 4 car companies who agree to follow California's high fuel economy standards that tRump has lowered.

https://jalopnik.com/feds-launch-antitrust-investigation-into-four-car-compa-1837929148

In other words, tRump is trying to keep car companies from volunteering to meet high fuel economy standards than what's allowed to get by...ain't that some $hit.
Aren't there bigger problems in this country to work on?
He has to be able to say that regulations aren't fair. If the companies comply voluntarily, he can't say that. The basis of almost all his logic is that people aren't smart enough to actually look into things and will just believe him. These companies are betting on him not being in charge for long, and they see the long term benefits. Why a sitting president wouldn't support these companies being proactively green is beyond me.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,870
Points
37
John Bolton was fired today, or resigned last night...either way he is thrown on the pile of previous administration underlings.

Remember when tRump said he only hired the best people? :roflmao:
 

Planit

Cyburbian
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11,870
Points
37
Does this make you feel safe?

With Bolton's ouster, Trump is now searching for his fourth national security adviser in less than three years, reviving concerns about instability among the president's top advisers as he faces a series of pressing national security matters. Yet in recent months, Trump has replaced his Homeland Security secretary, his director of national intelligence and Bolton. His Defense secretary has only been on the job for a matter of weeks.


____

In more local matters...NC Republicans told lawmakers there would be no recorded vote this morning, so 43 of the 55 Democrat lawmakers went to a 9/11 memorial service only to find out while they were gone that the Republicans voted to override Gov. Cooper's veto of their proposed budget. That's Democracy?
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,819
Points
51
Quick order your
DONALD TRUMP #SHARPIEGATE HURRICANE MAP BOBBLEHEAD


 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,387
Points
43
Well, the North Carolina republicans hit a new low yesterday. Despite telling the democrats that they would not vote on anything on Wednesday Morning so some could attend 9/11 memorial services, they changed up at the last minute to override the governors veto regarding the budget with a 55-9 vote knowing that many of those on the democrat side would not be there to vote.

LINK TO STORY

I know people who have always supported the GOP who have indicated that this was the last straw for them.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
9,749
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34
Well, the North Carolina republicans hit a new low yesterday. Despite telling the democrats that they would not vote on anything on Wednesday Morning so some could attend 9/11 memorial services, they changed up at the last minute to override the governors veto regarding the budget with a 55-9 vote knowing that many of those on the democrat side would not be there to vote.

LINK TO STORY

I know people who have always supported the GOP who have indicated that this was the last straw for them.
The NC GOP has looked exceptionally childish and petty over the past few years.
 
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