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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
5,870
Points
24
Well, the North Carolina republicans hit a new low yesterday. Despite telling the democrats that they would not vote on anything on Wednesday Morning so some could attend 9/11 memorial services, they changed up at the last minute to override the governors veto regarding the budget with a 55-9 vote knowing that many of those on the democrat side would not be there to vote.

LINK TO STORY

I know people who have always supported the GOP who have indicated that this was the last straw for them.
This was really one of the dumbest things they could have done. No one will be able to justify their actions here. In the world of PR, this is what one would call a "bad look".
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
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11,351
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37
This was really one of the dumbest things they could have done. No one will be able to justify their actions here. In the world of PR, this is what one would call a "bad look".

I think that's one of the things that have changed - they don't care if it looks bad - that PR line is now over - very sad, unless people fight back
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
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Messages
26,869
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57
Anyone who experienced or is familiar with the events of the 1960's can tell you the amount of civil discord/division we're experiencing now is not nearly as bad as it's been in the past. One thing, however, has changed from previous generations. It used to be that if one wanted to profess allegiance to some view or actively voice displeasure with the other 'side' of an issue you had to go through considerable effort to do so. In the past, one could start a grass-roots 'underground press', but that took a lot of coordination, organization and resources to be able to print, broadcast, and/or distribute materials to get the word out. Social media has changed all that. Now one can announce their allegiances and broadcast whatever ill-supported conspiracy theories they care to with no more than a few clicks. Suddenly, Karen or Jamal on Facebook can reach as many eyes and ears as the John Birch Society, or Weather Underground Organization did in years past. This state of affairs is made manifestly worse when the Leader of the Free World routinely increases certain fringe organizations visibility and prestige when he re-tweets their unsupported conspiracy theories. Sadly, because many Americans have been conditioned to regard the office of President as being one associated with wielding power responsibly and with restraint they are inclined to accept this information without (sufficient) question.
I felt sad yesterday when a Facebook friend shared two things: one about "It's official, Muslims have taken over Michigan. Click if you agree." The other was something about "Real Americans have to work hard their whole lives, pay taxes, and still can't afford medical care, while Illegals get it for free. Click if you agree."

How best to respond (if indeed at all) to these?
 
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Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,054
Points
34
I don't respond to idiot or racist Facebook posts. I just think as a municipal employee, it is unwise. I've only blocked messages from a couple of people who were just completely over the top, so I still see some sheet that gives me agita. I like to think, sometimes, that after I leave public service, I'd reply to these types of posts, but I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, so I probably never will.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,697
Points
36
I don't respond to idiot or racist Facebook posts. I just think as a municipal employee, it is unwise. I've only blocked messages from a couple of people who were just completely over the top, so I still see some sheet that gives me agita. I like to think, sometimes, that after I leave public service, I'd reply to these types of posts, but I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, so I probably never will.

I think BigOwl said he was going to be a professional internet troll when he retires.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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Messages
26,869
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57
I don't respond to idiot or racist Facebook posts. I just think as a municipal employee, it is unwise. I've only blocked messages from a couple of people who were just completely over the top, so I still see some sheet that gives me agita. I like to think, sometimes, that after I leave public service, I'd reply to these types of posts, but I know I'm not going to change anyone's mind, so I probably never will.
el Guapo kind of addressed this issue on a thread he started a couple months ago. How does one go about actually changing hearts and minds in the face of ignorance? Similar to his N-word contractor, we've all likely encountered this sort of thing on message boards and social media... Mexicans are a bunch of rapists and drug dealers, Muslims are a bunch of terrorists, anyone supporting Trump is a racist/fascist, etc. To call this out and openly condemn people propagating these views calling them bigots or morons might feel gratifying but it's certainly not the best way to go about changing hearts and minds as it closes the doors to folks ever entertaining alternate views. Human nature is such that we are hardwired to assume an us/them binary view, and as soon as you've identified your tribe it's frequently on like Donkey Kong. The trick is in devising ways to successfully circumvent this programming. It's not an easy or simple thing to do in practice.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,279
Points
43
Anyone who experienced or is familiar with the events of the 1960's can tell you the amount of civil discord/division we're experiencing now is not nearly as bad as it's been in the past. One thing, however, has changed from previous generations. It used to be that if one wanted to profess allegiance to some view or actively voice displeasure with the other 'side' of an issue you had to go through considerable effort to do so. In the past, one could start a grass-roots 'underground press', but that took a lot of coordination, organization and resources to be able to print, broadcast, and/or distribute materials to get the word out. Social media has changed all that. Now one can announce their allegiances and broadcast whatever ill-supported conspiracy theories they care to with no more than a few clicks. Suddenly, Karen or Jamal on Facebook can reach as many eyes and ears as the John Birch Society, or Weather Underground Organization did in years past. This state of affairs is made manifestly worse when the Leader of the Free World routinely increases certain fringe organizations visibility and prestige when he re-tweets their unsupported conspiracy theories. Sadly, because many Americans have been conditioned to regard the office of President as being one associated with wielding power responsibly and with restraint they are inclined to accept this information without (sufficient) question.
I felt sad yesterday when a Facebook friend shared two things: one about "It's official, Muslims have taken over Michigan. Click if you agree." The other was something about "Real Americans have to work hard their whole lives, pay taxes, and still can't afford medical care, while Illegals get it for free. Click if you agree."

How best to respond (if indeed at all) to these?
There has been a long history of people who used pseudonyms to say how they really feel for various reasons. For example, Silence Dogood was not a middle age female widow, but a 16 year old Ben Franklin.

I have a friend (who also lives in Michigan) who posted a couple of 9/11 conspiracy links yesterday. Personally, I ignore them because I think they are looking for a reaction more than anything else. I do however think that there are situations where one can gather support for a grass roots effort with the desire to peruse some greater cause and given the nature of things with DC over the past several decades, I would love to see more 3rd party candidates have a real chance.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,279
Points
43
Did anyone watch the debates? If so, can you provide an overview of you thoughts, who you thought won, and who, if anyone, would be able to actually unify this country again.

Also what were the best moments?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,697
Points
36
The debate was on at our house, but The Girl & I ended up having a fairly in depth conversations about her (& her peers) thoughts about the overall political issues today. That was pretty cool.

Still too many participants to say which was a 'winner' or 'loser' - there are a couple that are fading and one or 2 that should be cabinet members, but I'm still in the evaluation mode.
 

Maister

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I didn't watch the debates because I've already read enough about the various candidates positions (or in some cases "positions"). As to 'who can unify this country again', there are no charismatic titans currently in play on the national stage that could even come close to filling that role. It's likely to be a 'what' rather than a 'who' that reunites us.

In thinking about this whole unifier thing, you notice how moderates seldom inspire the masses...oh man, I loved how that leader cut a great compromise on that tax bill! And the way they spent their political capital in brokering those congressional appointments in exchange for that relatively unpopular appropriations measure was awesome! And yet these are the hallmarks of competent leadership and essential for getting business of governance done. Politicos selling some vision seem to appeal to one end of the spectrum at the expense of the other. A candidate selling an inspiring vision where health care is considered a basic human right is sure to alienate those on the right, just as surely as a candidate selling a vision where people of color are no longer welcome in this country is sure to alienate the left. It's actually a bit more complicated than that, but that's the crux of the problem.

As to third parties, I have had it up to here with them. They have a way of showing up at our doorstep in a most annoying fashion every four years when they trot out some Presidential candidate who dependably trims a critical 1.3% of the electorate thus throwing the balance of the race one way or the other. So you want to be in charge of the country? Here's a novel idea: how about you prove you possess the capability to operate in a governing role from the ground up. You know, invest in developing candidates to first serve as state legislators, secretary of state, county commissioners, mayors, etc. then once you've proven you can handle governance on a smaller scale move up the food chain. Build your freakin' party instead of treating the Chief Executive as some sort of entry level position.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
5,870
Points
24
Did anyone watch the debates?
Maybe it's just me, but I see no point in watching them. The Democratic party will hand pick their candidate anyway even with the primary votes through whatever means they can. Plus it's a stable full of lame ducks just trying to out crazy each other.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,697
Points
36
In tRump's speech last night, he called his VP Mike Pounce.

I guess Mike will have to go this morning and fill out forms with a sharpie to legally change his name just to prove his bossman right.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
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17,549
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55
I felt sad yesterday when a Facebook friend shared two things: one about "It's official, Muslims have taken over Michigan. Click if you agree." The other was something about "Real Americans have to work hard their whole lives, pay taxes, and still can't afford medical care, while Illegals get it for free. Click if you agree."
I don't know, but if you love Jesus, like this post. If you worship Satan, keep on scrolling.
 
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