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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

kjel

Super Moderator
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34
Okay.... can we talk about this letter?


Holy.... geez I just don't know how he can see these things as wins for him. Is he really that blind to reality? Wowza...
I read it last night and thought it was so incredibly awful that there was no way it could be real, but the White House verified its authenticity.

NPR's Steve Inskeep interviewed Erdogan adviser Gulnur Aybet this morning. She said that 1) the letter was not taken seriously; 2) the letter lacked "diplomatic finesse"; 3) Turkey's response to the letter was the invasion; 4) the letter was interpreted as a request to negotiate with a terrorist as if they were a NATO partner. https://www.wnyc.org/story/erdogan-adviser-on-turkeys-attacks-in-syria (click forward to 3:40).

Of all the crazy ass things Cheetolini has done, this may very well be his undoing and has caused significant damage to America's credibility when it comes to our defensive allies.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,877
Points
37
Dear Mr. Mayor, City Council and City Manager:

Let's work out a good deal! you don't want to be responsible for undermining the economic development and thousands of tax dollars, and i don't want to be responsible for destroying your careers — and I will. I've already given you a little sample with respect to social media.

I have worked hard to solve some of your problems. Don't let the town down. You can make a great deal. Joe Developer is willing to negotiate with you, and he is willing to make concessions that they would never have made in the past. I am confidentially enclosing a copy of his letter to me, just received.

History will look upon you favorably if you get this done the right and humane way. It will look upon you forever as the devil if good things don't happen. Don't be tough guys! Don't be a fool!

I will call you later.

Sincerely,
Your Planning Director
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Messages
14,880
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40

Ho. Lee. Sheet.

It seems the newly adopted line of defense is "we do whatever the hell we feel like doing in broad daylight now. So what are you going to do about it, huh?"
He said that the Quid Pro Quo wasn't about the Biden's though. I mean it's just stuff they do all the time with countries; withhold aide to get what they want. That's how you do foreign policy.... right?

So like, get over it.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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27,196
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62
So like, get over it.
I mean it's not like congress personally printed that money themselves, so why shouldn't the Executive branch be able to do with it whatever they want, right?
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,398
Points
43
I mean it's not like congress personally printed that money themselves, so why shouldn't the Executive branch be able to do with it whatever they want, right?

Here is the sad thing... he might actually win a second term even with this out there. :puke:
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Now Mulvaney is walking it back... surprising. It's funny how the truth sounds when you actually say it. I mean you said the President told you to withhold money until you got information on the DNC server and other corruption in Ukraine. Which is a quid pro quo. And now...

"Mulvaney adds that Trump never told him to withhold money until the Ukrainians took action related to a server Democrats used in the 2016 election. "

I am guessing less than a week until Mulvaney "has other opportunities" he is going to pursue.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
1,993
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26
Here is the sad thing... he might actually win a second term even with this out there. :puke:
I think it's almost a given unless there is video of the President strangling a hooker. The Dems just don't have anybody that the middle can get excited about. I think for all the hue and cry we all hear a lot of folks will sit the next one out. There's still time for someone else to emerge but the window is rapidly closing.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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62
I think it's almost a given unless there is video of the President strangling a hooker. The Dems just don't have anybody that the middle can get excited about. I think for all the hue and cry we all hear a lot of folks will sit the next one out. There's still time for someone else to emerge but the window is rapidly closing.
I agree. Short of a video emerging of him drowning puppies and kittens, or a recession hitting, I'm placing somewhat better than even odds that we're looking at four more years of insanity and Constitutional crises.

Edit, I take back the part about the video of him drowning puppies and kittens. All joking aside, I don't think that video would necessarily result in him losing in 2020 either. "It's faked. The CIA and Deep State manufactured that video. It isn't me. This is an attempt by the crazy Democrats to grab power and steal the election."
 

Hink

OH....IO
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I think it's almost a given unless there is video of the President strangling a hooker. The Dems just don't have anybody that the middle can get excited about. I think for all the hue and cry we all hear a lot of folks will sit the next one out. There's still time for someone else to emerge but the window is rapidly closing.
I think the D's have the next 6 months to either:

A. Push Warren to be MUCH more moderate. Focus on things the midwest can support and stop talking down to people who don't agree.
or
B. Hope that Biden fails early enough to have Mayor Pete win Iowa somehow and hope people can get behind his moderate train.

If Biden stays strong enough to win, but is harmed by the next six months, the D's will lose. Personally I think the only two people who even have a remote change at beating Trump are Biden and Buttigeig. Sanders and Warren are not electable with the Electoral College.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2019/10/18/would_warrens_ideology_weaken_her_as_democrats_nominee_141525.html

If we hit a recession or go to war, the math changes.

I also didn't think Trump could win, so what do I know. But I do think there is a general push by independents and D's to be more active. I think there is a lot of sky is falling feeling, which generally will get more people out to the polls. The question will be has Trump created enough of a narrative of being unfairly characterized that his base comes out too.
 

kjel

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Trump has a 50-50 shot of winning this again.

It will depend on what ticket the Dems will run. I wouldn't be upset at a Warren-Buttigieg ticket.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
13,818
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40
I just listened to a coworker tell me how horrible the dems are because if you wear a MAGA hat you get shot and the Rs never did stuff like that. Also, there is no quid pro quo because the transcript show he never said he would withhold something. Plus the economy is all this guy. It's this thinking that I would rather deal with this guy and his occasional twitter crap than these evil democrats that get people like this reelected.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,877
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37
tRump said he's building the wall in Colorado at a recent speech / rally last night.

Man geography is hard and confusing Mexico with New Mexico is an easy mistake I guess. I wonder if we'll see a new Sharpie altered map on this one?

Enquiring minds want to know.
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
4,880
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29
tRump said he's building the wall in Colorado at a recent speech / rally last night.
I was in Denver a couple of weeks ago - it went from 80 degrees and sunny at 3 PM on Wednesday to 25 degrees and snowing by 5 AM on Thursday. I'm fine with building a wall around that place. :cool:
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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This latest border wall statement is...just...baffling...still.

Trump's sheer verbal incompetence, figuratively, leaves me with no way to comprehend him and his supporters.

Baffled.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,398
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43
Do you think anyone on the GOP side would really have a shot at running against Trump for the nomination? (Please say yes... please say yes...)
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Do you think anyone on the GOP side would really have a shot at running against Trump for the nomination? (Please say yes... please say yes...)
More likely (hopefully) enough Repub Senators grow a backbone and politically bail on him and he gets impeached.

I really don't see a major downside for these Senators to cut him loose. Trump gets impeached then they (we) get Pence as President and he seems like he'd be 'their' man easily...provided Pence has/does keep the Trump stank off himself and doesn't get pulled into the fall.
 
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Dan

Dear Leader
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17,781
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58
Cars weighed down by tens of bumper stickers are icons of this region.

stickers.jpg

This takes the sentiment a bit too far.

73020293_10219462697776668_6533804443119386624_n.jpg

I first saw the "I'M ASHAMED TO BE A WHITE AMERICAN MALE" Subaru in real life a couple of weeks ago, but wasn't able to get a picture of it. I found this image on a local Facebook group.

As for what I think about it, I'll just let Nick Pether's editorial in the Stanford Daily speak for me.

"No one was inspired to be a progressive or work for justice by absurd performances of shame. .... In order to make a better society, we need to convince a lot of people who do not currently share our values to fight for them. If all progressives appear to have on offer is shame and condescension, then why the hell would anyone want to be a progressive?"

In my eyes, all I see is someone who wants to tell the world "I'm a more righteous and virtuous person than you."
 

Maister

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I really don't see a major downside for these Senators to cut him loose. Trump gets impeached then they (we) get Pence as President and he seems like he'd be 'their' man easily...provided Pence has/does keep the Trump stank off himself and doesn't get pulled into the fall.
You or I might not see a major downside, but what if, say, 5% of the voters in a senator's state were rabid Kool Aid drinkin' Trump loyalists - we're talking the folks who believe all the nonsense about deep state conspiracies and 'know better' than the unanimous consensus of this country's intelligence services that believe Russians interfered in the 2016 elections. If this 5% refused to vote for any senator that gets rid of their boy, Donny that's as good as resigning. Worse, we're hearing that Pence may be knee deep in this Ukraine scandal as well, which would mean both possibly getting the boot. There is no way in h-e- double hockey sticks the GOP is going to cede the Executive branch to the democrats, because that leaves Nancy Pelosi as next in succession. Trump will NOT be convicted in the Senate no matter how damning or convincing the evidence appears.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Trump will NOT be convicted in the Senate no matter how damning or convincing the evidence appears.
I know, rationally, that this is more likely than my scenario, but this time is not comparable to Clinton's idiocy and is a real and present threat to the basic foundations of our Republic.

I'm appalled that people still support Trump.

I would hope for the sake of one's name in history and the 'ease' of saying 'this is just too much' you should risk your reelection for the greater and much more important sake of the Nation. But I know, hopes and wishes and butterflies and fairytales and such.

I simply ask for true leadership from a simple majority of Congress. Alas....
 
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Planit

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Have you noticed that the Rs are arguing about the process & not the innocence of tRump?

Did you know that the process was last revised by the Rs when John Boehner was Speaker?

Do they understand this is just the fact-finding piece of an inquiry (which can be heard behind closed doors) BEFORE the Articles of Impeachment are presented (in open session) and heard by the House? The Rs don't understand that this is similar to what police & prosecutors do all the time before they issue a warrant for arrest?

The Rs don't understand "irony" or "hypocrisy" or maybe even "karma"!
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Have you noticed that the Rs are arguing about the process & not the innocence of tRump?

Did you know that the process was last revised by the Rs when John Boehner was Speaker?

Do they understand this is just the fact-finding piece of an inquiry (which can be heard behind closed doors) BEFORE the Articles of Impeachment are presented (in open session) and heard by the House? The Rs don't understand that this is similar to what police & prosecutors do all the time before they issue a warrant for arrest?

The Rs don't understand "irony" or "hypocrisy" or maybe even "karma"!
But they certainly understood the Electoral College in 2016. In 2020, there may be universal amnesia...again.

This is what every news outlet and rational not-idiot needs to keep repeating - These are the rules you created.
 

Wannaplan?

Galactic Superstar
Messages
3,149
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27
Parked the car this morning, turned off the radio (was listening to NPR), got out, and my brain smooshed classic lyrics from an LL Cool J song with current events:

Don't call it a witch hunt...
Nancy gonna knock you out!
Nancy gonna knock you out!
Nancy gonna knock you out!
 

Maister

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I am curious to see what the Article(s) of Impeachment will be. I understand the effort is to try to focus on the one single most easily understood and adequately documented crime and direct the charges there exclusively. Andrew Johnson faced 11 charges and Clinton faced 4. Both were ultimately acquitted too on the basis that it was not clear whether things like ‘obstruction’ even qualified as impeachable offenses. I heard commentator, Ari Melber (who is both a journalist AND attorney), make a pitch for charging Trump with ‘bribery’ as his publicly avowed actions meet all the necessary legal criteria, and there can be no argument as to whether or not bribery is an impeachable offense, as it is specifically listed in the Constitution.
But as I said earlier this exercise is largely academic as Trump will NOT be removed from office in this manner. The bigger question is how badly the GOP will be viewed as damaged in the eyes of so-called independent voters come time for the elections.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
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6,079
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26
My theory is that the R's are desperately trying to slow the impeachment process down to see how they do during these mid-terms. On the federal stage, there isn't anything major, but the state and local stage has a fair amount going on. It should be fairly telling to see if there is any voter erosion happening in their strongholds. If they see any troubling change, I could see the party shifting to dump Trump to try and regain control for 2020.
 

Maister

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My theory is that the R's are desperately trying to slow the impeachment process down to see how they do during these mid-terms. On the federal stage, there isn't anything major, but the state and local stage has a fair amount going on. It should be fairly telling to see if there is any voter erosion happening in their strongholds. If they see any troubling change, I could see the party shifting to dump Trump to try and regain control for 2020.
Several states also have November and December deadlines for announcing candidacy in primaries. If the deadline passes and it's a state with a Republican senator I suppose there's a chance they might feel emboldened taking a stance against Trump, seeing as how they already would know they won't get primaried
 

AG74683

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"Last Thursday, a British tabloid published additional intimate photographs of Hill. "

I think the American public deserves to be properly informed of the situation, we must be shown those photographs. EDIT* Oh, don't go searching for them. They are....disappointing.

The response to this is interesting. Seems a good portion of people (predominately strong feminists) proclaim that no one should have been involved in her private life and that her relationships should have been her business only. Those are also the same folks who still claim Bill Clinton didn't get enough punishment for his. I mean at their core, both relationships involved a superior and a consenting subordinate, so why is one worse than the other?
 
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JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
24,831
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51
This so Fing crazy -

White House press secretary Stephanie Grisham comment -
“I worked with John Kelly, and he was totally unequipped to handle the genius of our great President,”
White House press secretary and Arizona product Stephanie Grisham OD's on Trump Kool-Aid
 

Dan

Dear Leader
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Even President Obama has issues with "woke" culture. From the article:

Mr Obama told the audience: "I get a sense among certain young people on social media that the way of making change is to be as judgemental as possible about other people.

"If I tweet or hashtag about how you didn't do something right or used the wrong verb, then I can sit back and feel pretty good about myself because 'Man did you see how woke I was? I called you out!'"

"That's enough," he said. "If all you're doing is casting stones, you are probably not going to get that far."

Mr Obama added that "people who do really good stuff have flaws".


This.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,877
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37
tRump was booed at a UCF event in NYC.

You're 2-for-2 in (unscripted) public appearances.

WINNING!
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,079
Points
26
Reports say one of the new whistleblowers coming out is alleging that Jared Kushner gave Mohammed bin Salman the "okay" to arrest Jamaal Kashoggi. Apparently that phone call was intercepted by Turkey. Erdogan then used the intercepted phone call as muscle against Trump to basically force him to remove our troops from Syria.
 

Suburb Repairman

moderator in moderation
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Reports say one of the new whistleblowers coming out is alleging that Jared Kushner gave Mohammed bin Salman the "okay" to arrest Jamaal Kashoggi. Apparently that phone call was intercepted by Turkey. Erdogan then used the intercepted phone call as muscle against Trump to basically force him to remove our troops from Syria.
If that is true, that has to be game over. President being subject to blackmail, affecting foreign policy, is textbook impeachable. And if it is true, Donald Trump & Kushner are President and Vice President of Dumbf***istan.
 

Doohickie

Cyburbian
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1,842
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27
...provided Pence has/does keep the Trump stank off himself
Too late.

Trump will NOT be convicted in the Senate no matter how damning or convincing the evidence appears.
I don't think that's the tactic at all. I think the idea is to just start a credible conveyor belt of negative Trump information that will be in the headlines, still, from now until next fall. It's not the 5% of Trump fanatics that are the target; it's the 5% of Republican moderates that won't necessarily cross party lines, but might choose to stay home in the presence of so much damning information about their man.

The very worst that could happen would be for the Republican Congress members to fast track the impeachment process and put it in the hands of the Senate who will refuse to convict, meaning Trump can use the witch hunt rhetoric in the election.

Do they understand this is just the fact-finding piece of an inquiry
Of course they do. They also know that their base is fully ignorant with respect the machinations of government and the Constitution.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
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11,877
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tRump got to 2nd-base with MAGA hat wearing Nationals catcher Kurt Suzuki when he groped him.








(apologies to Steven Colbert joke ripoff)
 

DVD

Cyburbian
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13,818
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40
tRump is just happy there's an athlete who will show up to the White House anymore.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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19,398
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43
Trump announced war against Mexican Drug Cartels and has received quite a bit of push back from those saying that they have tried that and it didn't work, including from the President of Mexico.

My question is what do you think will work? No I don't think the traditional war approach is the way to go, but I do think we should do something to eliminate the threat.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
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26
My question is what do you think will work? No I don't think the traditional war approach is the way to go, but I do think we should do something to eliminate the threat.
Legalizing marijuana is a good start, but the cartels don't really make their money from weed anymore. I'm kind of leaning towards the opinion that ALL drugs should be legalized, or at the very least heavily decriminalized. The fast majority of income for cartels comes from cocaine and heroin/fentanyl. People will get their fix regardless of legality, and forcing these drugs to be manufactured in clandestine labs results in tainted product that kills people. Alcohol kills more people per year than any drug out there, yet it's legalized. Pain medication is given out like candy by medical professionals (legally in most cases), which causes dependency, which ultimately results in the abuse of illegal substances to fill the gap the pain meds left.

If heroin was suddenly legalized today I wouldn't be going to buy any, I have no interest in it. I don't think legalization will suddenly cause a huge increase in drug users. Private employers can manage the usage like they manage alcohol use now. I just don't see the significant public harm in pulling these substances out from the shadow if illegality and moving them to the legal stage. At least then there's some oversight on these labs making the stuff. Of course that wouldn't outright eliminate illegal production, but it would go a long way towards making illegal drugs simply unprofitable. If the market is flooded and they become easier to get, prices will bottom out.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
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6,079
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26
Republicans will turn on Trump now. Losing the Kentucky gubernatorial race and the Virginia house and senate are telling signs that their hardcore base is eroding and the opposing democratic base is mobilizing. They need to cut the tumor out now, otherwise 2020 will see them lose everything.
 

Gedunker

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Meh, losing Kentucky isn't as big a deal as the media are portraying it, IMO. Bevin is only the third R governor there in a long, long time; Beshear had name recognition as his father was a two-time governor (right before Bevin, in fact); and, Bevin unwisely antagonized teachers and was just a smarmy jerk all the time. The Rs took all the other statewide offices down ballot, so I really don't see that as a bellwether.
 
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