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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,286
Points
33
It's always been Biden. No one else stands a chance. That's largely why I haven't bothered keeping track of these debates. They are entirely irrelevant.
And that's why he won't win and the D's will blow this opportunity. He would be 78 years old at the time he would take office. You really want a guy that old running the country? I seriously don't. The current president notwithstanding, it's a very draining job if you take it seriously.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,894
Points
34
And that's why he won't win and the D's will blow this opportunity. He would be 78 years old at the time he would take office. You really want a guy that old running the country? I seriously don't. The current president notwithstanding, it's a very draining job if you take it seriously.
Yup, exactly. This election is a wash if the Dems can't put forward anyone better than Biden. Sanders and Warren won't work either, they're too far left.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
It's always been Biden. No one else stands a chance. That's largely why I haven't bothered keeping track of these debates. They are entirely irrelevant.
Do you think that Crazy Uncle Joe will be able to convince the voters to kick the Cheeto with an Ego out of the WH?
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,894
Points
34
Do you think that Crazy Uncle Joe will be able to convince the voters to kick the Cheeto with an Ego out of the WH?
Nope. He's old school Democrat, just like Hilary. He's also still trying to ride the Obama train, so he won't stand a chance at bringing in any of those fringe voters who will make the difference. If Biden is the candidate, Trump will win regardless of all this impeachment stuff.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,532
Points
48
Nope. He's old school Democrat, just like Hilary. He's also still trying to ride the Obama train, so he won't stand a chance at bringing in any of those fringe voters who will make the difference. If Biden is the candidate, Trump will win regardless of all this impeachment stuff.
I disagree. I think Biden wins when Obama supports him fully. I don't think that happens if Biden keeps weakening. Obama isn't going to support Warren or Sanders. They are just too far from his positions. If Obama endorses Joe, I think that is the final push he needs.

With that said, I think Obama could endorse Pete. If Pete wins Iowa and gets first or second in NH, he is likely to be looking better than Biden. I think the D's would benefit from pushing someone other than Biden, but they are scared (and I 100% agree with them) that they will lose.

The D's put up one of the most unpalatable candidates to a majority of America in modern history (Clinton) and still won the popular vote. I think the D's are certainly able to shoot themselves in the foot, but Trump isn't gaining any majorities with his last 4 years, only solidifying whatever he had.

If it comes down to Warren, Sanders, Biden, and Pete, it will be interesting to see who Obama picks, and allows himself to be kingmaker. I think any of those four could compete with Trump, if they got Obama's endorsement, I just doubt strongly that Warren or Sanders can win overall, based on their policy positions.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
This is funny... the democrats are losing their minds... Pelosi flips out on a reporter who asked if she hates Trump (to which we know the answer is yes...) and Biden calls a man a 'damn liar' at a town hall. We all know that Trump is a jerk, but it appears that it has spread to the democrats.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,532
Points
48
This is funny... the democrats are losing their minds... Pelosi flips out on a reporter who asked if she hates Trump (to which we know the answer is yes...) and Biden calls a man a 'damn liar' at a town hall. We all know that Trump is a jerk, but it appears that it has spread to the democrats.
I think you know that this isn't exactly apples to apples. I mean I would certainly say the R's are flipping out too. I mean look at Nunes and Jordan, and Guiliani, and Hannity, and.... you get my point.

I think the idea that the D's are doing this more isn't true. Both sides are flipping out right now, but for different reasons. No one is on the level of Trump when it comes to being a jerk. Either side can try, but he is just really, really good at it.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
I think you know that this isn't exactly apples to apples. I mean I would certainly say the R's are flipping out too. I mean look at Nunes and Jordan, and Guiliani, and Hannity, and.... you get my point.

I think the idea that the D's are doing this more isn't true. Both sides are flipping out right now, but for different reasons. No one is on the level of Trump when it comes to being a jerk. Either side can try, but he is just really, really good at it.
Defensive much?

I guess I was not clear... the Democrats had some sense of civility until recently. The republicans lost that 4 years ago. I am not saying that they are flipping out more then the Republicans, I am saying that they are flipping out more than they have in the past. Trump on the other hand has never been civil.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,720
Points
50
I saw this and thought it was fairly ironic, not surprising, but ironic:

Donald J. Trump Collection
President Donald Trump has for years railed against American companies moving manufacturing facilities elsewhere, often pressuring companies like Ford and GM to keep production stateside. But his own product lines are rarely produced domestically. His “Make America Great Again” hats were, but a quick survey of his other branded merchandise reveals that much of it is produced overseas in China, Bangladesh, or Vietnam.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,894
Points
34
Defensive much?

I guess I was not clear... the Democrats had some sense of civility until recently. The republicans lost that 4 years ago. I am not saying that they are flipping out more then the Republicans, I am saying that they are flipping out more than they have in the past. Trump on the other hand has never been civil.
Frankly, that civility is what has been holding them back. You can only take so much abuse before it gets to a breaking point. Democrats have long been criticized as "weak" because in general they refuse to partake in the political rhetoric that the Republicans do. Guess it's time to fight fire with fire.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
Let me ask you a serious question... do you trust federal government recommendations when it comes to nutrition, health & fitness, or the FDA?
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,638
Points
53
Let me ask you a serious question... do you trust federal government recommendations when it comes to nutrition, health & fitness, or the FDA?
Yes. The last several decades have been a great success overall for food safety enforcement in the US by the FDA.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,740
Points
32
My fair state will be plagued by campaign visits
:mi:

The day this one ^^^ happened, it was announced that the Orange One himself will be in Battle Creek on Dec 18. Yep, we're planning a protest.
Can't bring in the big balloon this time, as it will be cold and the handlers have decided to set a threshold of 60° We'll have a kazillion of the smaller ones.
In our group discussion, I recommended pulling a permit with the city. Feedback arrived: the staff was blindsided, they will be swamped, not sure they can turn on the power to the light poles at our desired location. Also there's much discussion about all the unpaid bills endured by various municipalities in the wake of presidential visits. (In Holland, it appeared that every sheriff deputy, state cop, and city officer was working on a nearby highway or sitting in a car at an intersection.)
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,190
Points
71
Yes. The last several decades have been a great success overall for food safety enforcement in the US by the FDA.
Absolutely agree. Overall, they do a great job. It's easy to forget about how bad things were before the FDA got involved. Instances where they get it wrong are so rare an event that it actually makes the news.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,720
Points
50
Our state DEQ has seen several drops in funding over the last several budget cycles. Wetlands division used to have 9 employees, now 0!

N.C. Department of Quality loses 34% of funding, 430 jobs over last decade
(WUNC)

A new report from the independent nonprofit Environmental Integrity Project found that the North Carolina General Assembly cut funding for the state Department of Environmental Quality by about 34% over the last decade. Between 2008 and 2018, funding for pollution-control programs fell from $136 million to $90 million, despite the state budget increasing by $3 billion. Almost 430 jobs were eliminated during this time. Wetlands protection has been hit hardest by the cuts, with its workforce reduced from nine to zero by last year. Only Wisconsin, Texas and Louisiana made larger cuts to their DEQ.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,532
Points
48
Let me ask you a serious question... do you trust federal government recommendations when it comes to nutrition, health & fitness, or the FDA?
The government has done more positive things for health than harm, by leaps and bounds. Particularly when it comes to food safety, vaccinations, and clean water. I would prefer more regulations and make companies figure out ways to meet these with the potential for less R&D. I would rather have better, safer, and more accessible options, than MILLIONS, which are too expense, too dangerous, or too rare (as it pertains to pharmaceuticals).
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
Absolutely agree. Overall, they do a great job. It's easy to forget about how bad things were before the FDA got involved. Instances where they get it wrong are so rare an event that it actually makes the news.
While I think they do an OK job, I think it is far from a great job. Many of the products that we consume each day are different in other countries because our products have ingredients that the other counties ban.

Same thing goes for drugs that are permitted.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,513
Points
51
That would be Congress, not our government agencies. They have been lobbied to allow certain chemicals, etc. in food rather than follow the formula of other countries with purity laws.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,720
Points
50
South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham told CNN International that he did not feel under pressure to pretend to be a "fair juror."
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,190
Points
71
South Carolina Sen. Lindsey Graham told CNN International that he did not feel under pressure to pretend to be a "fair juror."
Such honesty and candor is refreshing in this day and age.
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,234
Points
33
Our state DEQ has seen several drops in funding over the last several budget cycles. Wetlands division used to have 9 employees, now 0!

N.C. Department of Quality loses 34% of funding, 430 jobs over last decade
(WUNC)

A new report from the independent nonprofit Environmental Integrity Project found that the North Carolina General Assembly cut funding for the state Department of Environmental Quality by about 34% over the last decade. Between 2008 and 2018, funding for pollution-control programs fell from $136 million to $90 million, despite the state budget increasing by $3 billion. Almost 430 jobs were eliminated during this time. Wetlands protection has been hit hardest by the cuts, with its workforce reduced from nine to zero by last year. Only Wisconsin, Texas and Louisiana made larger cuts to their DEQ.
That's really lousy. On the flip side, I had a call yesterday with a local agency that's working on a 404 permit, and they actually already understood the other federal regulatory drivers related to it - that was darn enjoyable...
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,740
Points
32
This should be loads of fun.

The forecast is for very very cold, but clear. I feel for the city officials, who were blindsided by the announcement of the event.
"City Manager Rebecca Fleury said she and others at City Hall found out about President Trump’s campaign visit the day his staff announced it on Thursday December 5. "
 
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AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,894
Points
34
I'm so confused on these statements coming from the GOP regarding the impeachment hearings. They keep claiming that the democrats are "rushing the impeachment proceedings". The impeachment of Bill Clinton began on October 8th, 1998 and the impeachment decision came down on December 19th, 1998. That is 72 days from start to vote.

The impeachment of Donald Trump began on September 24th, and if a decision is reached today, it took 85 days. The Bill Clinton impeachment was a GOP lead initiative that was far more rushed than the current proceedings. That is a fact. There's no conjecture there, there is no debate. Anyone who says the current process has been "rushed" is a damn liar.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,513
Points
51
Facts only relate if they are about my side. They do not count when I'm doing/rushing things against the other side.

Example, the day the county commission fired my was decided after a brief discussion with me not even in the room. The day the new county commission rehired me there were people (that one guy - every community has him) decrying how this decision was rushed and we should take our time considering rehiring all the directors.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
So the house votes to impeach Trump... mostly along partly lines. The Senate will not vote to convict him, mostly along partly lines... and then next fall he will get re-elected...

What kind of damage will this do to the Democrat Party?
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,532
Points
48
So the house votes to impeach Trump... mostly along partly lines. The Senate will not vote to convict him, mostly along partly lines... and then next fall he will get re-elected...

What kind of damage will this do to the Democrat Party?
I think the election will be close. I think it was the right thing to do though. Trump is going to go down as one of the worst presidents in history. His harm to our country isn't going to be to our pocketbooks, but to the relationships we have with the world, and with each other.

Trump has made being "non-politically correct" a very nice way to say rude, or just mean words to each other. I am all about straight talk, but Trump and his penchant to attack people on their looks, or their actions that he doesn't like, is really reprehensible. The fact that a portion of our county now thinks it is okay to speak like that is what I have the most problem with. Beyond policy, beyond party, the public discourse has been altered for the worse because of Trump.

Do I think impeachment was going to ever get him out? No. But I do think it enlivens a Democratic party that wanted that to happen. Is it going to get Republicans to go against Trump? Nope. But the general public supported the impeachment, and thought Trump did something wrong. So maybe you steal some independents?

I think everyone says Trump will win, mainly because they are scared that if they say out loud that a Democrat will win, it will somehow jinx the election. Trump has a lot of work to do to actually win. The states that he won in the midwest aren't doing great. Remember those promises about jobs in Indiana and GM staying, etc. I know two die-hard Republican farmers who won't vote for Trump. Maybe it isn't a huge group, but there are lots of people who don't care that he says things are great, because their lives don't show that.

I don't really think impeachment matters overall. The Senate won't really have a trial, they will just go through the motions and not convict him. But the question for me is, when a President decides to use his power illegally, what do you expect the House to do? Or are we still pretending like what he did wasn't wrong?
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,894
Points
34
So the house votes to impeach Trump... mostly along partly lines. The Senate will not vote to convict him, mostly along partly lines... and then next fall he will get re-elected...

What kind of damage will this do to the Democrat Party?
No damage whatsoever. It's a political farce at best. Democrats will feel vindicated that their representatives tried to get rid of the devil himself and their views that Republicans are all old decrepit evil people are further reinforced. Republican voters will continue to vote republican and it will strengthen their resolve that democrats are out to destroy the free world.

Those "on the fence" have already made up their mind regardless of this outcome. All this did was further divide both sides and set us up for another decade of bitterness between the two parties where Congress will be forever mired in a stupid power struggle that benefits no one but themselves.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
I think the election will be close. I think it was the right thing to do though. Trump is going to go down as one of the worst presidents in history. His harm to our country isn't going to be to our pocketbooks, but to the relationships we have with the world, and with each other.

Trump has made being "non-politically correct" a very nice way to say rude, or just mean words to each other. I am all about straight talk, but Trump and his penchant to attack people on their looks, or their actions that he doesn't like, is really reprehensible. The fact that a portion of our county now thinks it is okay to speak like that is what I have the most problem with. Beyond policy, beyond party, the public discourse has been altered for the worse because of Trump.

Do I think impeachment was going to ever get him out? No. But I do think it enlivens a Democratic party that wanted that to happen. Is it going to get Republicans to go against Trump? Nope. But the general public supported the impeachment, and thought Trump did something wrong. So maybe you steal some independents?

I think everyone says Trump will win, mainly because they are scared that if they say out loud that a Democrat will win, it will somehow jinx the election. Trump has a lot of work to do to actually win. The states that he won in the midwest aren't doing great. Remember those promises about jobs in Indiana and GM staying, etc. I know two die-hard Republican farmers who won't vote for Trump. Maybe it isn't a huge group, but there are lots of people who don't care that he says things are great, because their lives don't show that.

I don't really think impeachment matters overall. The Senate won't really have a trial, they will just go through the motions and not convict him. But the question for me is, when a President decides to use his power illegally, what do you expect the House to do? Or are we still pretending like what he did wasn't wrong?
Don't get me wrong, I think congress did the right thing. I just wonder what kind of message will this send to the American people if he does get reelected. To me, it sends two messages. The first is that the Democrat Party is incapable of making a difference and two, the system is broken and all hope in the federal republic is lost. If your a republican, it reestablishes the idea that he might as well be called Teflon Don and that the republicans are unstoppable. It will lead to protests and rioting in the streets and civil unrest in major urban areas.

IF he loses the election, I think that is the only way for society to maintain faith in DC.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,513
Points
51
The election will fall along party lines unless we can do something to fix the whole electoral college thing. Yeah a couple of states end up deciding with swing votes, but that's the only change you've got.
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,341
Points
38
Prediction: Pelosi sits on impeachment until the courts compel administration officials to testify (Pompeo, Bolton, etc). That will stir the pot to be sure
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,908
Points
49
Prediction: Pelosi sits on impeachment until the courts compel administration officials to testify (Pompeo, Bolton, etc). That will stir the pot to be sure
At what point does her sitting on it become a violation of the 6th amendment?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,720
Points
50
At what point does her sitting on it become a violation of the 6th amendment?
I don't think that comes into play with impeachment. That's another whole set of rules and procedures.

Right off the bat you can't have an impartial jury, McConnell & Graham have already put that out of play.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,638
Points
53
I don't think that comes into play with impeachment. That's another whole set of rules and procedures.

Right off the bat you can't have an impartial jury, McConnell & Graham have already put that out of play.
Yep. That's the Repub's stance, so why not play the same game(s).
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,532
Points
48
So the Christianity Today Editorial is damning. I am not sure how anyone attacks CT. They are pretty fair in their language and clearly do not support Democrats.

Or the President could comment on it....
"A far left magazine, or very 'progressive,' as some would call it, which has been doing poorly and hasn't been involved with the Billy Graham family for many years, Christianity Today, knows nothing about reading a perfect transcript of a routine phone call and would rather have a Radical Left nonbeliever, who wants to take your religion & your guns, than Donald Trump as your President," Trump said in a series of tweets. "No President has done more for the Evangelical community, and it's not even close."

---


I love stories like this. I mean this is the President of the United States.

This is a direct quote, from a man that we elected into our highest office:

“I never understood wind. I know windmills very much, I have studied it better than anybody,” he said.
I would correct my 8 year old if he spoke like that.
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,105
Points
49
whoa - someone just posted pics of the supposed whistleblower onto their LinkedIn page - I just reported it but I wish I had screen shotted it or kept her name - I hope it was a bot as that's pretty bad, no matter your politics

whistleblowers and accusers are two completely different things, wow

it's scary out there
 
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