• Ongoing coronavirus / COVID-19 discussion: how is the pandemic affecting your community, workplace, and wellness? 🦠

    Working from home? So are we. Come join us! Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, planning adjacent topics, and whatever else comes to mind. No ads, no spam, no social distancing.

The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,629
Points
51
There should be an endless parade of witnesses from actually relevant to totally insane like Weird Al, just because I wanted to hear what he has to say on the subject. It could last until election day. It would show the dems are totally out of it. Watch your dad's head spin.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,689
Points
53
I feel like I have to watch it, at least for the sake of talking about this time in our history to my grandchildren.

Back in the fractious 2020 election year, we rational people that could actually think watched it unfold in real time with the knowledge that history doesn't repeat, but it sure does rhyme....
Meme_fractious 2020.jpg
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
Dad decided to stay another night so this should be fun.

At lunch I convinced him that the Iowa Caucus issue was caused by a corrupt Democratic National Party in an effort to discredit results that showed that the chosen candidate (Biden) flopped and is essentially a non-viable option. The company that created the app has ties to the Clinton campaign which, as he already knew, was thrust into the nomination by a shady backdoor process that ignored the popular votes because the party refuses to let Bernie (or God forbid, Butitgeigighe) have fun. Coincidentally, Homeland Security offered to test the app for them, but were refused. The reason I gave to him is that "the Democrats feel that the Department of Homeland Security is a compromised pro-Trump group, and thus couldn't be involved in vetting the software".
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,969
Points
49
Rand Paul made an interesting point. The Democrats say the President used his office to go after a political opponent. (Which he did). But the Democrats did the exact same thing with their opponent by using the political process to go after Trump with their timeline of events.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,607
Points
49
Rand Paul made an interesting point. The Democrats say the President used his office to go after a political opponent. (Which he did). But the Democrats did the exact same thing with their opponent by using the political process to go after Trump with their timeline of events.
I mean you understand the difference right? The "political" process you reference was put in place to protect our democracy from a President who uses the Presidency to only increase his own power and bank account, and not for the people. Also, the democrats wouldn't have been able to use the political process, had Trump not done so many illegal things.

---

The SOTU was rough. I knew going in what I should expect, as these things aren't exactly magic, but geez. Trump is rough overall when it comes to speeches that have purpose, he is much more comfortable just speaking off the cuff, with groups that will clap no matter what crazy things he says. This was different, but the R's still did their job and clapped at everything.

I don't wish ill on anyone, and I certainly understand how much cancer sucks, but Rush Limbaugh getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom is embarrassing. It isn't about journalism, or helping America, it is about speaking positively about Trump. I'm not sure anyone else has ever received that award for that purpose.

No shaking Pelosi's hand was childish, but so was ripping up the speech by Pelosi. The Democrats have to get over this urge to stoop. They look really bad when they do it. Trump can spin it, D's cannot.

Overall, socialism. I think that is going to be the word du jour for the next 9 months.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dan

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,689
Points
53
I mean you understand the difference right? The "political" process you reference was put in place to protect our democracy from a President who uses the Presidency to only increase his own power and bank account, and not for the people. Also, the democrats wouldn't have been able to use the political process, had Trump not done so many illegal things.

---

The SOTU was rough. I knew going in what I should expect, as these things aren't exactly magic, but geez. Trump is rough overall when it comes to speeches that have purpose, he is much more comfortable just speaking off the cuff, with groups that will clap no matter what crazy things he says. This was different, but the R's still did their job and clapped at everything.

I don't wish ill on anyone, and I certainly understand how much cancer sucks, but Rush Limbaugh getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom is embarrassing. It isn't about journalism, or helping America, it is about speaking positively about Trump. I'm not sure anyone else has ever received that award for that purpose.

No shaking Pelosi's hand was childish, but so was ripping up the speech by Pelosi. The Democrats have to get over this urge to stoop. They look really bad when they do it. Trump can spin it, D's cannot.

Overall, socialism. I think that is going to be the word du jour for the next 9 months.
I know the difference between the political acts that Trump did to Ukraine and what the House has done by following the Constitution. Trump is clearly looking for foreign interference in our election and the House felt that was too far this time and acted to impeach which is permitted under the Constitution.

mskis - I'm surprised you appear to not see the clear difference as you continuously refer back to the Constitution all the time in this thread.

The SOTU was full of claimed statistics and pandering (some just preaching to the choir, some clearly tone deaf). The economic stats I will not accept unless verified by an objective third party as I don't trust anything coming from this Administration.

The whole monkey show was a clear image of the absolute partisan divide in our Fed. government.

Lastly, Limbaugh getting the Medal of Honor is a blatant and disrespectful act. Limbaugh has his right to free speech, but his rhetoric has always been dismissve and racist for financial gain.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dan

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36


Pictured above - Rush Limbaugh shortly before receiving his Presidential Medal of Freedom.

And normally I don't think making fun of ones health is anything to laugh at, but Rush Limbaugh is a terrible person who deserves what he gets.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
28,249
Points
71
Limbaugh has done a great deal to promote hate and division in this country and grown wealthy in the process, but even so I wouldn't wish the end game suffering lung cancer patients endure on anyone.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,629
Points
51
Dad decided to stay another night so this should be fun.

At lunch I convinced him that the Iowa Caucus issue was caused by a corrupt Democratic National Party in an effort to discredit results that showed that the chosen candidate (Biden) flopped and is essentially a non-viable option. The company that created the app has ties to the Clinton campaign which, as he already knew, was thrust into the nomination by a shady backdoor process that ignored the popular votes because the party refuses to let Bernie (or God forbid, Butitgeigighe) have fun. Coincidentally, Homeland Security offered to test the app for them, but were refused. The reason I gave to him is that "the Democrats feel that the Department of Homeland Security is a compromised pro-Trump group, and thus couldn't be involved in vetting the software".
So I laughed at this yesterday and today in the local rag opinion section I get some guy ranting about how the Iowa thing is a scam and the the Dems are just hiding the fact that Bernie won and not Biden. AGs conspiracies are coming true!
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,379
Points
39
<snip>

Lastly, Limbaugh getting the Medal of Honor Freedom is a blatant and disrespectful act. Limbaugh has his right to free speech, but his rhetoric has always been dismissve and racist for financial gain.
I fixed that for you. The Medal of Honor is a military honor approved by Congress and bestowedby the president; the Presidential Medal of Freedom is a civilian honor. Rush Limbaugh was indeed an odd choice, given his blatant racism. But then, Trump isn't exactly .... oh, nevermind.:r:
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
So I laughed at this yesterday and today in the local rag opinion section I get some guy ranting about how the Iowa thing is a scam and the the Dems are just hiding the fact that Bernie won and not Biden. AGs conspiracies are coming true!
I mean there's probably a shred of truth in it, but it appears it may have been skewed more towards Buttighehtghe's favor by people close to his campaign and the Sanders campaign caught it because they were using their own app. Either way it's a joke.

The speech with Dad went as well as it could. He constantly talked about how evil the Democrats are for sitting down during Trump's more "mee meeeee meeeee" moments, but he failed (as all Republicans do) to remember that they did the same thing to Obama at every SOTU. He asked why I wasn't paying attention and I told him that no matter what side of the aisle they're on, Washington is largely a corrupt worthless group of individuals who have no grounds in reality anymore, so none of it matters.
 

Hawkeye66

Cyburbian
Messages
612
Points
21
I for one would be glad if the Iowa Caucuses went away. I got bombed by text messages and am not even in a party. Because of my job, I am not openly partisan, which is required in a caucus.

Streaming ads and TV ads were terrible. My Lord Tom Steyer spent a lot of money for a lot of nothing.

I am tired of having our state ripped on. Is it perfect? Of course not, but every state has its warts.
 

Suburb Repairman

moderator in moderation
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
7,396
Points
33
I remember when TX got rid of its weird "two-step" of a caucus and primary in 2008. I remember becoming a precinct captain by virtue that I was the only one at the caucus that actually knew how it was supposed to work, and then helping the poor bastard at the county level who was completely overwhelmed by the turnout. The county I lived in at the time had been so red for so long that they hadn't had meaningful turnout for the caucus portion in probably 16 years. They switched to a true primary system just after the 2012 elections.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,969
Points
49
Many thoughts:

Trumps speech last night was a fine blend of fiction, coincidence, and lies mixed in with truths that he had nothing to do with.

Trump was a dick for not shaking Pelosi hand before the speech.

Pelosi reminds me of a childish brat that throws a fit when she does not like something. I would laugh if Trump does the same to the articles of impeachment.

The most pathetic thing last night was the evident hate between the two parties and how they go out of their way to demonstrate it with disrespect.

I understand the differences, between what Trump did and what the Democrats did... but I also see the similarities.

I have a new respect for Mitt Romney for doing what he knew was right regardless of the political consequences.
 

gtpeach

Cyburbian
Messages
2,060
Points
20
I have a new respect for Mitt Romney for doing what he knew was right regardless of the political consequences.
I didn't vote for Mitt when he ran, but I've always liked him. It's amazing how many people (Republicans) are saying that his vote was based on sour grapes for not being elected versus supporting his personal moral values that he's trying to be consistent with. The cynical part of me wonders if he felt like he was able to make that vote because he knew it wouldn't change the outcome, but he still took a huge risk by casting it, and it gives me a little glimmer of hope that there CAN be such a thing as ethics in politics.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,689
Points
53
I didn't vote for Mitt when he ran, but I've always liked him. It's amazing how many people (Republicans) are saying that his vote was based on sour grapes for not being elected versus supporting his personal moral values that he's trying to be consistent with. The cynical part of me wonders if he felt like he was able to make that vote because he knew it wouldn't change the outcome, but he still took a huge risk by casting it, and it gives me a little glimmer of hope that there CAN be such a thing as ethics in politics.
Agreed with this all.

But I'm sure Romney is fully aware that he also just put himself in the history books as the first to do what he did.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,829
Points
51
If the glove don't fit, you must acquit! Sorry wrong sham trial.



SOTU thoughts:
This was the 'perfect' reality shitshow episode. Think about it. Gave out a dubious Medal of Freedom; spotlighted a toddler 'saved' from abortion; brought in a war vet to return home; et cetera - plus it began with snubbing Pelosi's handshake, a great introductory first sequence.
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,379
Points
39
If he voted to convict, then why not vote to hear witnesses? (He could say the House made its case without them, I suppose. Still, Bolton would have dramatically escalated the case for removal.)

Trump is going to be a beast for however long he has left...buckle up, 'cause it's going to be a bumpy ride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JNA

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,358
Points
43
If he voted to convict, then why not vote to hear witnesses? (He could say the House made its case without them, I suppose. Still, Bolton would have dramatically escalated the case for removal.)
Romney did vote to hear witnesses. So did Snow.

______________________________

Regarding the SOTU - I always despise those videos of servicemembers returning home and surprising their family and to bring that trope to the SOTU is even more manipulative and despicable. To me, it's just another example of how the current President thinks the military is nothing more than a prop that he can use to pander to his base.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,757
Points
32
I didn't vote for Mitt when he ran, but I've always liked him. It's amazing how many people (Republicans) are saying that his vote was based on sour grapes for not being elected versus supporting his personal moral values that he's trying to be consistent with. The cynical part of me wonders if he felt like he was able to make that vote because he knew it wouldn't change the outcome, but he still took a huge risk by casting it, and it gives me a little glimmer of hope that there CAN be such a thing as ethics in politics.
There's a TY postcard to him getting prepared on my desk. I selected one of Mackinac Island, which he'd remember since his moderate GOP dad was our governor for a while. :mi:
Can't forgive him for his outrageous defense regarding the treatment of Seamus, and the secret video about the 47%. However, he has some principles, and zero Fs left to give about 45.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
25,574
Points
59
Read this on the internet about the GOP
Matthew 16:26 NIV
What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
I don't really understand the shock and awe at the acquittal results. I mean Moscow Mitch was very clear from the beginning that this was going to be the end result.

And don't be fooled for a minute that Romney voted with his "conscious" or anything like that. It's a party move. Get one well known guy to "flip" so whenever shit DOES hit the fan and the party needs to distance itself from Trump, they can push Mitt back to the forefront with the excuse of "SEE!! I was against him!! LOOK AT ME!!".
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,629
Points
51
I have to agree with WSU on the prop up a vet for person gain crap. Most vets I know don't want anything more than the occasional pass on building permit requirements. Even that thank you on Veteran's day is kind of awkward, but to use a vet to say you support vets when no politician really does is appalling to me.
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
18,521
Points
69
I don't wish ill on anyone, and I certainly understand how much cancer sucks, but Rush Limbaugh getting the Presidential Medal of Freedom is embarrassing.
That will go down in history with an asterisk next to Limbaugh's name. IMHO, the only reason why Trump awarded Limbaugh the PMoF was to "piss off the libs."
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,607
Points
49
That will go down in history with an asterisk next to Limbaugh's name. IMHO, the only reason why Trump awarded Limbaugh the PMoF was to piss off the libs. w-
And it worked....
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
That will go down in history with an asterisk next to Limbaugh's name. IMHO, the only reason why Trump awarded Limbaugh the PMoF was to piss off the libs. w-
TBH, the Medal of Freedom is sort of a joke anyway. Lets name a few people who have received it to see what everyone thinks....

  1. Walt Disney
  2. Audrey Hepburn
  3. Steven Spielberg
  4. Tom Hanks
  5. Frank Sinatra
  6. Barbra Streisand
  7. Bill Cosby
  8. Oprah Winfrey
  9. Angela Merkel
  10. Tony Blair
  11. Bear Bryant
  12. Michael Jordan
  13. Tiger Woods
  14. Dean Smith
I mean really, what makes any of these people more deserving of the Presidential Medal of Freedom than Rush Limbaugh is? I'm not trying to defend Limbaugh's award, because obviously I dislike the man too, but the award has absolutely zero meaning now, it's been diluted to "let me give it to someone I happen to like" rather than "let me give it to someone who has made a lasting meaningful impact on our nation. Yes, they've made great movies, fantastic music, and have given us pleasure watching them triumph at their sport, but I see no reason why any of them deserve to get that award.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,607
Points
49
TBH, the Medal of Freedom is sort of a joke anyway. Lets name a few people who have received it to see what everyone thinks....

  1. Walt Disney
  2. Audrey Hepburn
  3. Steven Spielberg
  4. Tom Hanks
  5. Frank Sinatra
  6. Barbra Streisand
  7. Bill Cosby
  8. Oprah Winfrey
  9. Angela Merkel
  10. Tony Blair
  11. Bear Bryant
  12. Michael Jordan
  13. Tiger Woods
  14. Dean Smith
I mean really, what makes any of these people more deserving of the Presidential Medal of Freedom than Rush Limbaugh is? I'm not trying to defend Limbaugh's award, because obviously I dislike the man too, but the award has absolutely zero meaning now, it's been diluted to "let me give it to someone I happen to like" rather than "let me give it to someone who has made a lasting meaningful impact on our nation. Yes, they've made great movies, fantastic music, and have given us pleasure watching them triumph at their sport, but I see no reason why any of them deserve to get that award.
Careful. Tom Hanks is a treasure.
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
209
Points
9
He asked why I wasn't paying attention and I told him that no matter what side of the aisle they're on, Washington is largely a corrupt worthless group of individuals who have no grounds in reality anymore, so none of it matters.
I don't pay attention to Trump's campaign events. That's all the SOTU is, a campaign event.
 

TOFB

Cyburbian
Messages
2,429
Points
29
I for one would be glad if the Iowa Caucuses went away. I got bombed by text messages and am not even in a party. Because of my job, I am not openly partisan, which is required in a caucus.

Streaming ads and TV ads were terrible. My Lord Tom Steyer spent a lot of money for a lot of nothing.

I am tired of having our state ripped on. Is it perfect? Of course not, but every state has its warts.
I too would be glad. The text messages were awful and I had three door knockers before 11 am on Sunday before. And I try to keep my politics out of the public arena and that doesn't happen while caucusing.

It was at times a painful two hours and may not do it again if it was to happen.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
Careful. Tom Hanks is a treasure.
I agree!

I was curious who all has won this award, and it is all over the freaking map.

More and more I wonder what the meaning of these awards are. Just look at all the people who have a Nobel Prize. While many are deserving, some are not.
Oh I don't disagree, Tom Hanks is great, but are his accomplishments really worthy of the Medal of Freedom? That's what I'm getting at, the award is largely watered down now because of the randomness of who gets it. I'm not shocked Rush got it, nor do I think it really matters.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,757
Points
32
Question for Hawkeye, Giff, TOFB, and any other Iowans --

Some local progressives got all bent out of shape over news that a caucusing locale had to be moved a few blocks. (Church social hall to a Masonic temple, in Sioux City IIRC) I went looking on the Iowa Dems twits, and found another one -- there was a gas leak at the original location so the building was closed. They found a nearby alternative spot.

How closely did the "must be in line by 7pm" thing get policed? Any caucusers get shut out of participating due to a venue change? These young progressives are claiming all sorts of conspiracy theories.

I looked up the Sioux City one, and it appears that one could see the two locations if standing on the sidewalk. Presumably there was a Magic Markered sign taped to the closed location, and maybe a friendly RAGBRAI participant-type standing out front?

Any insight here?
 

Hawkeye66

Cyburbian
Messages
612
Points
21
Question for Hawkeye, Giff, TOFB, and any other Iowans --

Some local progressives got all bent out of shape over news that a caucusing locale had to be moved a few blocks. (Church social hall to a Masonic temple, in Sioux City IIRC) I went looking on the Iowa Dems twits, and found another one -- there was a gas leak at the original location so the building was closed. They found a nearby alternative spot.

How closely did the "must be in line by 7pm" thing get policed? Any caucusers get shut out of participating due to a venue change? These young progressives are claiming all sorts of conspiracy theories.

I looked up the Sioux City one, and it appears that one could see the two locations if standing on the sidewalk. Presumably there was a Magic Markered sign taped to the closed location, and maybe a friendly RAGBRAI participant-type standing out front?

Any insight here?
Because of my job, I steer clear of the caucuses. I vote, but I dont do anything outwardly political. I am not real sure on Sioux City, I am in the Eastern part of Iowa.
 

giff57

Corn Burning Fool
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
5,436
Points
33
I am not aware of any issues here but I do not participate for the same reason as Hawkeye. I would guess if the move was significant there would be signage and probably a volunteer. Like everything else, if you are not early you are late. If you show up right at 7:00 and something unexpected happens, it's your fault. Ok, Ok I know.... Ok Boomer ;-)
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
209
Points
9

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,829
Points
51
For some reason, I can't open Politico website.

Never mind I saw where there is a blue cap with "MAKE THE WHITE HOUSE GREAT AGAIN"


and this little tid bit:
White House counselor Kellyanne Conway on Monday hinted that additional officials could be forced out of their roles following the ousters last week of Lt. Col. Alexander Vindman and Ambassador Gordon Sondland — both high-profile witnesses in the impeachment investigation of President Donald Trump.

Didn't Sondland give tRump $1 million for his inauguration for this pleasure?
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
Since the Democrats have managed to screw up the presidential election again by filling their stables with losers, I have come up with their only solution to defeat Trump in November.....

Endorse him. Clinton's, Obama's, Pelosi, Schiff. All of them. Barack Obama is the Republican equivalent of throwing holy water on a vampire. Hillary Clinton is akin to the anti christ, seconded only by Bill. According to my father, the quintessential Republican, Pelosi is the most evil person on earth. Their heads will literally explode from confusion.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,607
Points
49
Since the Democrats have managed to screw up the presidential election again by filling their stables with losers, I have come up with their only solution to defeat Trump in November.....
New Hampshire certainly made things more interesting. The problem the D's are having is the same problem the R's had in 2016. They cannot get behind a single candidate. Which is why Bernie is winning. If the Center Left got behind Pete, or Amy, or Biden, or Bloomberg, they would be winning by a landslide. But they are fractured, which is why Bernie on the far left, is hitting his stride. Add in the fact that Warren is lost, and her voters will largely go to Bernie and will be interesting.

With that said, if South Carolina goes for Biden, it will make the whole thing a mess. I think if Pete or Amy do well in South Carolina, or if Biden gets 3rd there, things are going to change A LOT as I don't think Biden stays around if he doesn't win South Carolina.

Speaking of, Yang and Bennett are out. Not really surprising. Next up, Steyer, Patrick, and Gabbard?

That leaves:

Pete
Amy
Biden
Bloomberg
Bernie
Warren

I see Warren as the next out, with Biden potentially being next. If Amy and Pete do terrible in states that actually have diversity, one or both could be out. It may end up being Bloomberg v. Sanders, which would be hilarious in the oddity of it.

If Bloomberg makes it as the candidate for the D's he will win the whole thing. The polls are starting to show how much his media blitz is working. I'm not sure if Bernie wins, but he would be fun to watch against Trump.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,969
Points
49
New Hampshire certainly made things more interesting. The problem the D's are having is the same problem the R's had in 2016. They cannot get behind a single candidate. Which is why Bernie is winning. If the Center Left got behind Pete, or Amy, or Biden, or Bloomberg, they would be winning by a landslide. But they are fractured, which is why Bernie on the far left, is hitting his stride. Add in the fact that Warren is lost, and her voters will largely go to Bernie and will be interesting.

With that said, if South Carolina goes for Biden, it will make the whole thing a mess. I think if Pete or Amy do well in South Carolina, or if Biden gets 3rd there, things are going to change A LOT as I don't think Biden stays around if he doesn't win South Carolina.

Speaking of, Yang and Bennett are out. Not really surprising. Next up, Steyer, Patrick, and Gabbard?

That leaves:

Pete
Amy
Biden
Bloomberg
Bernie
Warren

I see Warren as the next out, with Biden potentially being next. If Amy and Pete do terrible in states that actually have diversity, one or both could be out. It may end up being Bloomberg v. Sanders, which would be hilarious in the oddity of it.

If Bloomberg makes it as the candidate for the D's he will win the whole thing. The polls are starting to show how much his media blitz is working. I'm not sure if Bernie wins, but he would be fun to watch against Trump.
I think that you are 100% correct. I also wonder if this is the left's side indicating that they too are sick and tired of the establishment. Bernie might be old, but he is not the establishment. I don't think Biden has a chance anymore.

I have also been hearing stories about moderate democrats who voted for Trump because they hated Clinton so much and now they hate Trump and don't know who to vote for. I think that Bloomberg would win that group in a landslide.

Overall, I think Bloomberg would do a much better job than Trump, but I don't agree with him on several key issues, so he won't get my vote.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
6,987
Points
36
If Bloomberg makes it as the candidate for the D's he will win the whole thing. The polls are starting to show how much his media blitz is working. I'm not sure if Bernie wins, but he would be fun to watch against Trump.
I'm beginning to think he's the best candidate. I don't really know that much about him though. In the last election, I was pro Bernie, but that's only because there was no one better. The rest were all kinda junk. I'm shocked that in 4 years the Dems couldn't find anyone better.
 
Top