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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

Hink

OH....IO
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IT'S THE DEEP STATE!

The far right conspiracy machine is really quite sad really. It tries to use the government as a justification for all the wacky things that are going on in the world. I get it that most of the awful, crazy things in this world would be better if we had control of them. But people need to realize we don't.

Yes, our government is doing a lot of things behind the scenes. And yes, who knows what Trump would do to win reelection. But the idea that we would unleash a bio-weapon on the world without lots of leaks from our lifelong government servants who can't stand working for Trump is unlikely. Why do we keep seeing so many leaks? Mainly because Trump breaks lots of rules, laws, and general understandings and people don't like it. That would be a huge one.

Or it's the deep state. Which is easier to say. So let's go with that.
 

dw914er

Cyburbian
Messages
1,438
Points
18
This morning while waiting to pay for my coffee at a local gas station, there were a couple of people behind me that had the craziest conspiracy theory I have heard in a while. They said that the coronavirus was actually a bio-weapon that was released by China at Trumps request knowing that it would have a greater impact on big cities in the US, allowing him to sweep the electoral college this November.

My first thought was, no.... Trump is not that smart to know to orchestrate something like that.
I have heard the opposite, and that the coronavirus was part of the deep state's efforts to undermine Trump. We live in strange times.

Trump has done a great job of promoting his authoritarian actions as being the administrations efforts to undo the "deep state" rather than what they are, which is undoing the Constitution.
 

MD Planner

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2,378
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34

Hink

OH....IO
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Steyer and Mayor Pete are out. They look much better by bowing out. Klobachar and Warren now look silly, as they have no path to victory.

This is the Biden v. Sanders v. Bloomberg show. And honestly, if Bloomberg crushed tomorrow, Biden should drop, and if Biden crushes tomorrow Bloomberg should drop, making it the Bernie v. Moderate fight this should have always been.

It gets interesting now...
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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20,051
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50
Two questions...
1) I have heard it said by multiple left leaning persons what it is no wonder the Democrats are not going to win, look who they have running. With that, I want to ask who do you think would do a good job? The same question goes to the Republicans. Who would you rather see at the front of the ticket and why?

2) Over the weekend a few facebook friends posted a political caption that overall I don't disagree with, but I thought it was seen through a limited lens. I know if I had asked about how I viewed it, it would have been perceived as being offensive. The question that I have for all of you is how do you address things like that on facebook. I did not respond to their posts, but I am curious as to what others would do/say.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Klobuchar is out.

Warren has said she isn't going to leave... which could be interesting, as she hurts Bernie. Klobuchar quickly stated her support for Biden. Pete hasn't stated who he is supporting yet. I would imagine he will go for Joe as well, setting up a pretty interesting brokered convention... Bernie in the lead by a little, and the D's are going to have to figure out how to manage the expected Bernie Bros attacks on all things DNC if Bernie doesn't take the whole thing...

If it is Sanders v. Biden v. Bloomberg at the convention it makes it MUCH easier to pick Biden (or Bloomberg).

If it is 1 on 1 it will be impossible not to pick the person who is winning going in...

If Warren sticks around, it makes it even more realistic to see Joe winning the second round of a brokered convention.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,792
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51
Two questions...
1) I have heard it said by multiple left leaning persons what it is no wonder the Democrats are not going to win, look who they have running. With that, I want to ask who do you think would do a good job? The same question goes to the Republicans. Who would you rather see at the front of the ticket and why?
I think the election of trump made it clear we don't want career politicians anymore, other than the career politicians who we keep electing to congress which is where I have a bigger problem. So I'm going with anyone but Biden or Bernie or Warren on the dem side. I'm not saying they would do a bad job or are not electable, just get me someone new without the baggage. You know if any of them are elected we get four years of Fox and right wing news screaming about how wrong they are and bringing up junk they did in the past, mostly out of context - not saying CNN does the same thing.
On the GOP side I'll take an articulate monkey at this point. What I want is someone who will stop the GOP everyone does it my way process. Everyone from the pres down to local state reps are all singing the same tune and if they don't they get punished. This is the system that led to gerrymandering and to today's we won't do anything if the other party proposed it attitude. I'm looking for a return (if there was ever a beginning) of statesmen or women and bi partisan problem solving and less straight down the party line politics.

2) Over the weekend a few facebook friends posted a political caption that overall I don't disagree with, but I thought it was seen through a limited lens. I know if I had asked about how I viewed it, it would have been perceived as being offensive. The question that I have for all of you is how do you address things like that on facebook. I did not respond to their posts, but I am curious as to what others would do/say.
I stay off the facebook because it's filled with wrong or half true information and my friends don't post anything better than their kid at their latest play. I don't want to sit through my kids school play, why would I want to see yours! And I don't care what you ate for dinner Karen! My wife on the other hand likes to reply with accurate information which just starts people arguing until they get bored with her posting actual reliable facts, but that's for the stuff that's outright lies and wrong.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
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5,785
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32
On Wednesday I was enjoying the float workshop at Mardi Gras World when the phone rang, 212 area code.
Turned out to be a producer at NBC News. (I simply cannot figure out how these people keep finding me ... oh wait ...)

They had set up a Super Tuesday watch party at a local brewery, wanted me (moi!) to invite locals. So I have.

Fun facts: we vote next week, not today
with all absentee all the time, many have already voted. Our ballot contains many options who are no longer running (this is my samplke ballot)

sample ballot.png
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,378
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34
So amazingly President Trump is actually leading the youth movement in the race. So much for diversity. Sink or swim we're getting an old white guy.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
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7,092
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38
Well looks like Biden and Sanders are pretty close, but Biden is holding a bit of a lead. I think Biden is better poised to defeat Trump in the general election, but both leading Dem candidates kind of suck. Bernie has little to no real "baggage" to speak of, but he's too progressive, even for democrats. Biden carries more baggage than a fully loaded 747, but he's what everyone is used to.

Local election wise, the lesser of two evils won in our commissioner race. It was a Republican primary with no Democrat opponent in the general election so the winner takes the seat. The guy who lost has been an incessant issue in our office for years (a giant know-it-all with a short temper). I'm very grateful he lost because I could see trouble brewing with him on the board. My former Planning Board member who was moved to the BoC after the death of our chairman last year lost by a landslide in his primary. It's a bummer because he is extraordinarily qualified for the seat (far more than his opponents). All told, we will end up with 3 new members for sure. That's gonna be a mess.
 
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Hink

OH....IO
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Well... so Biden.... huh?

So Bloomberg drops and Warren drops and that leaves Biden v. Sanders.

I say Biden picks Warren as his VP.... then it is clearly the strongest available ticket....

Could be interesting...
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
229
Points
9
Well looks like Biden and Sanders are pretty close, but Biden is holding a bit of a lead. I think Biden is better poised to defeat Trump in the general election, but both leading Dem candidates kind of suck. Bernie has little to no real "baggage" to speak of, but he's too progressive, even for democrats. Biden carries more baggage than a fully loaded 747, but he's what everyone is used to.
Yeah. I have resigned myself to the fact that regardless of whether it is Biden or Sanders, I will be casting a vote against Trump. I am so tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I should say I don't think Biden or Sanders are evil, just I wouldn't vote for either of them in the primary. It looks like I'll be taking a Republican ballot in the primary as well, since the local Republican races in the primary are much more important.

The thing I just can't wrap my head around is why Warren didn't do better. Especially compared to Sanders. Their positions are very similar, except she has actual plans of how to accomplish it and a history of getting things done.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Yeah. I have resigned myself to the fact that regardless of whether it is Biden or Sanders, I will be casting a vote against Trump. I am so tired of voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I should say I don't think Biden or Sanders are evil, just I wouldn't vote for either of them in the primary. It looks like I'll be taking a Republican ballot in the primary as well, since the local Republican races in the primary are much more important.

The thing I just can't wrap my head around is why Warren didn't do better. Especially compared to Sanders. Their positions are very similar, except she has actual plans of how to accomplish it and a history of getting things done.
I think she speaks over people. Our country in general wants to understand (or can only actually understand) things at a 4th grade level. I think Warren in particular was bad at understanding that middle America doesn't understand, or potentially agree with much of what she is selling. That messaging needed to be updated to get away from some of the scare tactics of the right, but she never really could explain things in a middle America tone.

Joe Biden and Trump both speak how lots of people speak. They explain things in simplistic terms that middle America likes. It may not be correct, but the professor never understood that coming off professorial is a negative to a lot of people.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
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51
Plus Bernie is an angry old man. Who doesn't like to watch the angry old man rant? Now get off our collective lawn.
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
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229
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9
I think she speaks over people. Our country in general wants to understand (or can only actually understand) things at a 4th grade level. I think Warren in particular was bad at understanding that middle America doesn't understand, or potentially agree with much of what she is selling. That messaging needed to be updated to get away from some of the scare tactics of the right, but she never really could explain things in a middle America tone.

Joe Biden and Trump both speak how lots of people speak. They explain things in simplistic terms that middle America likes. It may not be correct, but the professor never understood that coming off professorial is a negative to a lot of people.
Yeah good point. Obama was knocked for the same thing at times.
 

Gedunker

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I think Senator Warren, whom I like tons better than the other Progressive, couldn't project an image of defeating Trump, the bully, liar, misogynist, "Pocahontas" name-calling POTUS. I think that is predominantly what people want - to be rid of Trump. People just don't see her doing that.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
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71
I've come to understand over the years that federal level elections have very little to do about policy. Sure, they should be - we'd all like to think we're rational decision makers - and while a relative handful of ideologues on both sides of the aisle do care about such things, the large majority of voters pay policy lip service only and actually make decisions on an almost visceral/instinctive level. This is not something new, either. The only things that have changed are the means/methods by which candidates posture.
 

Planit

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This pic is from an article on The Daily Beast and right now is fiction (I hope). BUT I'm afraid it might actually become a reality:

1583416375954.png
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
5,785
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32
On Wednesday I was enjoying the float workshop at Mardi Gras World when the phone rang, 212 area code.
Turned out to be a producer at NBC News. (I simply cannot figure out how these people keep finding me ... oh wait ...)

They had set up a Super Tuesday watch party at a local brewery, wanted me (moi!) to invite locals. So I have.

Fun facts: we vote next week, not today
with all absentee all the time, many have already voted. Our ballot contains many options who are no longer running (this is my samplke ballot)

View attachment 48005
Internet Expert Karen gets the last word. I'd heard a similar statement earlier on NPR, from a reliable source ... also known to wear white pantsuits.


screenshot: VfW earrings & pin, National Women's Party lanyard, off frame is my HRC "woman card"

Super Tuesday 2.png
 
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Suburb Repairman

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Warren is out.
Well there goes the "Bernie with a brain that can math good" option. She got my vote on Tuesday--I appreciate somebody that actually has well-developed platforms and means of accomplishing them. Literally a plan for everything. But American politics does not reward intelligence.

She really isn't as liberal as she seems--it would not surprise me to see her endorse Biden as a means to get her platform integrated with the likely winner at this point. Biden is savvy enough to know that and I'm sure is in heavy discussions. Would love to see her prominently in the administration, though I prefer someone younger for VP (and perhaps a female person of color... there are TONS that are qualified). Bernie didn't move the needle much on Super Tuesday--I don't think he really has a path to the nomination anymore. He got out-politicked and should've anticipated it given his years in the senate. His campaign wasn't ready with a pivot and attack. That tells me that as good as his grassroots/energized infrastructure is, he lacks the capacity to leverage it effectively. His targeting of young voters/new voters isn't paying off.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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The VP means nothing, other than to get votes for the President. So Biden will choose someone that helps him get votes.

Biden has shown he has strong support from African American voters, and will likely do well in California so I don't think he goes with Harris. I think he solidifies the left wing with Warren as that is really the question mark for him. I am not sure the Bernie Bro lovers like Warren any longer, and they will hate her more if she backs Biden, but she may be his best shot at it. Abrams isn't going to win any votes for Biden in Georgia, so she isn't exactly helpful to Biden either.

I has to be a woman and I don't see him needing Klobuchar to get any votes in Minnesota. Catherine Cortez-Masto for Nevada? Michelle Obama because it would make the Republicans mad? .... Nikki Haley? ;) Or is Trump going to drop Pence and pick Haley up?

It may end up being Harris as she seems to be the easy pick, even if Biden doesn't really need her help in California.
 

Suburb Repairman

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Abrams will definitely be a cabinet position, although I'd actually prefer to see her in the Senate.

Warren won't be it now that I've looked closer at it--the Mass. Governor is Republican and would be able to appoint... you better believe he'd appoint a Republican obstructionist to a Democratic President.

Harris would solidify persons-of-color, and brings some of that same fire that Warren does in terms of being able to really roast somebody. People also forget she is Indian-American (mother), which would be an interesting base to activate. That's where my bet goes right now.
 

Gedunker

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Harris probably won't be Biden's choice given her brutal attack on him last summer. Unless he's looking more for a team of rivals (ala Abraham Lincoln's cabinet). But Biden definitely needs a woman of color to thank Rep Clyburn for the endorsement/life ring he threw Biden in So.Car.
Abrams seems more to Bernie's liking, IMO.
Pete needs a cabinet post or important ambassadorship (Russia/China?), not VP, IMO.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
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10,472
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Warren won't be it now that I've looked closer at it--the Mass. Governor is Republican and would be able to appoint... you better believe he'd appoint a Republican obstructionist to a Democratic President.
The governor in Massachusetts does appoint a replacement but it's a temporary replacement and they need to hold a special election within about 6 months of the vacancy so if Elizabeth Warren were selected to be the running mate and then the Ds won the election, it wouldn't be the end of the world. She could actually step down from her Senate position the day after winning the election in order to get the clock rolling a bit quicker on when they need to hold the special election, instead of waiting to start the clock on inauguration day.

All that said, I still don't think it would be Warren. Kamala Harris ended up endorsing Biden a few days ago and I've seen a bit of commentary that she's been angling for the position but I think he's more likely to pick somebody from a bit further to the left than Harris. But why not Warren? She's too old. She would be 71 by the time of the election and if the coronavirus remains to be an issue in the fall, and it continues to hit those age 65+ disproportionately hard, I think Biden would want to pick somebody a bit younger, even though Warren appears to be in great shape for her age.

It would also be interesting to know what the GOP and the DNC are doing behind the scenes to prepare for the worst case scenarios that one of their candidates comes down with the virus or even dies because of it and who they would put on the ticket to replace them. The GOP has an easier decision since Pence would immediately be take over as president but who would fill the ticket with him (I'm assuming the GOP would happily nominate him if they didn't have Trump or Trump had to drop out or something since he would be the sitting president at that point), but if Biden runs away with the delegates from here on out and Sanders drops out and then Biden gets sick or dies, would the DNC really put Sanders on the ticket at that point? I don't know that I see that happening.

If one of these crazy scenarios occured, I think a lot of pundits and voters might look at this as a national crisis and want to see somebody with some executive experience who would be viewed as a steady hand on the till. For the Ds, that might equate to a sitting (or recently sitting) Democratic governor. Jay Hickenlooper? Gretchen Whitmer? Ned Lamont?

These are just my coronavirus fever ramblings.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Biden crushes in Michigan, Missouri, and Idaho. Sanders is done. The question will be does he admit that yet, or force more debates?

I think the coronavirus may make Sanders decision easier. I certainly would not want to be out at rallies right now as a 70+ year old man who has heart disease. He has no path to victory and there is a virus that could kill him... that could be enough.

I think the question at this point is - will Bernie do everything in his power to get his supporters to hold their noses and get out the vote for Biden? A lot of the coverage of the left news media is about how and when the pivot will occur. The longer it takes for him to pivot, the more likely the younger voters will become disenfranchised.

This will be interesting.
 

WSU MUP Student

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Biden crushes in Michigan...
As more absentee ballots are being counted, I'm surprised to see that Biden has actually overtaken Sanders in Washtenaw County (home of Ann Arbor and the University of Michigan). When I went to bed last night, Sanders had a lead of a few percentage points there and with the increase in absentee voting in Michigan this cycle, I figured that lead would actually grow a little bit.
 

Veloise

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...

If one of these crazy scenarios occured, I think a lot of pundits and voters might look at this as a national crisis and want to see somebody with some executive experience who would be viewed as a steady hand on the till. For the Ds, that might equate to a sitting (or recently sitting) Democratic governor. Jay Hickenlooper? Gretchen Whitmer? Ned Lamont?

These are just my coronavirus fever ramblings.
She just started here, and has a lot of ground to cover in terms of her goals. I can't see her abandoning this position before her first term is up.

Also, her girls are in HS. She'll wait for them to graduate.
 

WSU MUP Student

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She just started here, and has a lot of ground to cover in terms of her goals. I can't see her abandoning this position before her first term is up.

Also, her girls are in HS. She'll wait for them to graduate.
I think that her being too new in her current position is probably a bigger deterrent to her not taking the VP position if offered than her kids being in school. Arrangements could be made for her kids to stay in Michigan to finish school if finishing up at the local school there in EL is important to them. But in the grand scheme of things, she seems to get a lot of good national press, would represent positions further left than Harris but not as far left as Warren, and might appeal to younger voters who don't want to see two olds on the ticket. Of the sitting Democratic governors, she does seem to check off the most boxes:female, young, executive experience, coming from a state that is up for grabs, etc.
 

AG74683

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I think the question at this point is - will Bernie do everything in his power to get his supporters to hold their noses and get out the vote for Biden? A lot of the coverage of the left news media is about how and when the pivot will occur. The longer it takes for him to pivot, the more likely the younger voters will become disenfranchised.
Meh, I'm done with this election already. Probably abstain from voting again this time around. The choice is between a crazy old man with orange hair and a crazy old man with white hair. Biden can claim he's had a "change of heart" all he wants to, but his history of bigotry and racism is glaring and obvious. No thanks, I won't be part of this.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Meh, I'm done with this election already. Probably abstain from voting again this time around. The choice is between a crazy old man with orange hair and a crazy old man with white hair. Biden can claim he's had a "change of heart" all he wants to, but his history of bigotry and racism is glaring and obvious. No thanks, I won't be part of this.
If you don't vote, you don't get to complain about the outcome.

Right now, idealism and political purity is for the dead and people that aren't legally permitted to vote.

This is an existential crisis and the most important issue is to get Trump out of the Presidency. I will risk a possibly problematic future in order to get rid of this current and known uncontrollable trainwreck Administration with the worst possible personality at it's head.
 
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mendelman

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I didn't last time, and I don't complain about Trump. It is what it is, a disaster no matter who ends up in office.
Noted.

I still would greatly advise against abdicating your right.

But it is a right that is not compulsory.
 

Planit

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12,968
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Hell tRump might get a copy of the resolution Putin had Russia pass (which keeps him in office until 2036) and give it to his ole buddy Moscow Mitch to ram through the Senate.
 

Bubba

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5,330
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36
Biden crushes in Michigan, Missouri, and Idaho. Sanders is done. The question will be does he admit that yet, or force more debates?
.
.
.
This will be interesting.
I'm more interested in the reaction from the Bernie Bros - do they try and burn everything to the ground because their messiah isn't getting the nomination?
 
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