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The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
I agree. I think the first wave is from those who can't be "hurt" by Trump. Obviously his scorn can really put the pain on a candidate, and with 90%+ approval ratings within the republican party, we can assume his opinion still has sway.

My guess though is that the second wave will be House members or other Bush-like Republicans, whom are more establishment, will come out against Trump. I think it is well-known how much a portion of the Republican party dislikes Trump, but just doesn't want the Democrats to win, and are holding their tongue. Without any clear alternative, what advantage do they have to speak out against Trump though? They would just be hurting themselves politically. The only real reason is because they just want to get a parting shot at Trump on the way out. I don't see Senators willing to do that, but House members may.
If only we had a rational 3rd party...

I predict that Biden will win the election because Trump is not going to change his tone or trajectory in the next few months. I also think you will have a lot of republicans stay quiet and vote for Biden just because things are so bad with Trump. I am not quite there yet (as in voting for Biden) but if things get any worse, I might be. I am really disappointed in the political establishment for not having a backbone and standing up to this tyrant. We have checks and balances in place for a reason and they are letting him get away with WAY too much.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,649
Points
51
I look at it this way. Love Biden or not, not voting for him is a vote for the other guy. I never have and never will vote for a racist piece of garbage like that to lead my country. I will make sure my vote counts and speaks loudly that I won't support this crap. Not voting for tRump is not the answer. Voting for the other candidate to show your electorate an overwhelming majority to vote for a true leader is the answer. Everyone do your part to be anti-racist.
 

Suburb Repairman

moderator in moderation
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
7,396
Points
33
When the building is on fire, you spray it with the fire truck. You don't lament the fact that it doesn't have fire sprinklers.

With Trump, the building is on fire. Biden is the fire truck. A rational 3rd party is fire sprinklers--great to wish for, but you aren't going to go into a burning building to install fire sprinklers.

I honestly thought when Trump was elected that you would see a viable 3rd party spin out of the aftermath.
 
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michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
I look at it this way. Love Biden or not, not voting for him is a vote for the other guy. I never have and never will vote for a racist piece of garbage like that to lead my country. I will make sure my vote counts and speaks loudly that I won't support this crap. Not voting for tRump is not the answer. Voting for the other candidate to show your electorate an overwhelming majority to vote for a true leader is the answer. Everyone do your part to be anti-racist.
Well, I have difficulty voting for Biden based on several of his potions and his past treatment of women. Additionally, there are a lot of people who say that not voting for Trump is a vote for the democrats.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,608
Points
49
Well, I have difficulty voting for Biden based on several of his potions and his past treatment of women. Additionally, there are a lot of people who say that not voting for Trump is a vote for the democrats.
Fair enough. So do you vote for the evil you know, or the potential evil you don't? Could it possibly be worse then it is now?
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
Fair enough. So do you vote for the evil you know, or the potential evil you don't? Could it possibly be worse then it is now?
Or vote for someone who has zero chance of getting elected that does not have a history of sexism, racism, or political position is at least a little closer aligned to your belief structure? That way we don't feel guilty for raising someone up who does not deserve to be in that office.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,649
Points
51
In a normal election I would have no problem voting for a third party candidate that never gets elected. Basically it's saying I feel good about myself and screw it, let the rest of the country elect a president. This year I have a choice between absolute chaos, racism, lying, cheating on women, or Joe Biden. I think I will do what gets the oversize piece of crap out of my White House. in four years I can take a more personal moral stand about the perfect candidate that doesn't exist.
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,391
Points
39
Lots of sundown towns in Illinois and Indiana and my band that used to have two African Americans in it (now one) was completely aware of it.
I can’t speak of Illinois, but you are spot on about Hoosiers. Sadly.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
From the Book of Faces:

View attachment 48429
I view it as follows:
You have three ways to get across town. The first is a cab driver who yells and screams, has not cleaned the cab in forever, and the dents on the outside of the cab indicate that he does not care about who he runs into. The second is the bus. The route has no real rationale, has a ton of stops, and goes through some questionable neighborhoods. The driver smiles a lot, is a little too friendly and you suspect he is drunk. The third is to walk. It is a nice day and while it is a long road to get there and it is going to take you a lot longer, it might be the safest and indefinably the most enjoyable. Sure the cab and the bus are more convenient, and will finish the race before you arrive, but at least at the end of the day you can stand up and say that you did not put your support behind a driver that you can't trust.

Given the situation, I am probably going to lace up my shoes.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
7,004
Points
37
In a normal election I would have no problem voting for a third party candidate that never gets elected. Basically it's saying I feel good about myself and screw it, let the rest of the country elect a president. This year I have a choice between absolute chaos, racism, lying, cheating on women, or Joe Biden. I think I will do what gets the oversize piece of crap out of my White House. in four years I can take a more personal moral stand about the perfect candidate that doesn't exist.
I do not care for Biden at all. His voting record is spotty, he's been just as big of a jerk as Trump at times, and he's definitely a creep. I've said before in this thread that I wasn't planning on voting for President because, like the previous election, both candidates suck.

I've since gone back on that. I'm going for Biden. Hell, I'd be willing to campaign for the guy if I wasn't in such a politically sensitive job. 4 more years of Trump will set us back 50 years nationally and another 100 internationally.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
Well it has been shown in almost every election - if you don't vote R or D, it's just a wasted vote.

I think the evidence that tRump has demonstrated over the last 3 years is everything you need to decide whom you should vote for in the end...and if that doesn't convince you, well think of Joe's last name 'BYE DON'
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,649
Points
51
I always feel I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. No candidate will represent me so I'm just going to hop on Mskies bus because you know the cab is getting in a wreck and I'm not walking 30 miles across town. I leave that for people like WSU who run 5 miles a day. Besides, I can get off the bus at the next stop and wait for a better bus driver and still get there faster.
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
7,004
Points
37
I always feel I'm voting for the lesser of two evils. No candidate will represent me so I'm just going to hop on Mskies bus because you know the cab is getting in a wreck and I'm not walking 30 miles across town. I leave that for people like WSU who run 5 miles a day. Besides, I can get off the bus at the next stop and wait for a better bus driver and still get there faster.
I've only been "of age" to vote since 2006, so I've only had the opportunity to vote in 3 Presidential elections. I feel absolutely confident that Obama was not the "lesser of two evils" in either election, he was flat out the best candidate. I respected McCain, and actually really liked him, I just didn't think he was the best fit. I was definitely opposed to Romney and didn't really care for him as a person either, but I'm beginning to think he's not so bad now.

2016 was completely different. That was absolutely the lesser of two evils. I (regrettably) didn't vote for either candidate. Looking back on it (hindsight really is 2020) I absolutely would have voted for Clinton. I naively thought Trump wouldn't be a complete disaster. Boy was I wrong.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
To shift gears out of DC and into MN, where the Minneapolis police chief says that they will take on the union and promises reform.

The article indicates that "it's debilitating for a chief when an officer does something that calls for termination, but the union works to keep that person on the job, and on the street."

What are your thoughts. Do unions help weed out officers that care problematic, or do you think they are keeping bad cops on the job?
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
14,649
Points
51
The unions have got to go. You want to negotiate pay and benefits, fine. I'll even give you a break on protecting employees on minor work related HR problems like not following directions of a supervisor or whatever things that would come up with any office worker, but when you start talking about things on the street you need an independent review board to handle it. I would love to see a statewide board that will make the determination if a cop can stay on the street or not. That way your city and your city politics has nothing to do with it - in theory. If you don't think the new civilian review board started by city X isn't going to be loaded with a bunch of old white guys that don't know or don't care about the problem, you crazy. Of course we'll have the one token 75 year old hippie that actually does care, but they'll all just out vote him anyway.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
CDC Guidelines Issuance

Health Alert

COVID – DJT


This disease has shown up in the past repeatedly in various outbreaks, but was usually confined to a small area. In 2015 – 2016, there was a widespread outbreak which lead to many cases reported. Recent symptoms include a bright red color on top of your head, a blue banner or flag item draped around your shoulders and appearance of a firearm on your hip. Other symptoms might include foaming at the mouth causing dribble from the mouth of lies, hallucinations and memory loss coupled with changing stories and excuses, arrogant lack of any responsibility, orange tinted skin and one’s ability to hold a book.

At this time there is no cure and is highly contagious in group settings. Vaccine could be available in November, but this is not confirmed.

Be careful out there folks.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,326
Points
34
Wow. That's pretty amazing. I see that and I'm reminded of a great line in the movie The American President. I'm paraphrasing a bit but the line talks about someone who claims to love America "but clearly can't stand Americans."
 

Super Amputee Cat

Cyburbian
Messages
2,193
Points
29
According to 538, Trump's disapproval rating is now at 55%. That is the highest in the Covid-19 era.

Hopefully the Dow tanking 1800 points today will raise that number even more. Is an approval rating below 40% attainable in the near future?bg060920dapr.jpg
 

AG74683

Cyburbian
Messages
7,004
Points
37
Band Aid will begin making brown and black flesh toned bandages now. I never really thought about that, but why in the hell haven't they been doing that for years anyway?

I'm happy to see that these protests are actually working towards something finally. I mean we've seen it for years, but nothing came out of it.
 

Citizen Kane

Cyburbian
Messages
42
Points
2
I would imagine we are going to see the never-Trump Republicans start to come out of the woodwork. Say whatever you want about Biden and his abilities, but Trump has burned a lot of bridges. This will be the first chance most Republicans who feel disenfranchised by Trump get to show him how they feel. They have had 4 years to stew....
Colin Powell is not conservative.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
Meet Marjorie Taylor Greene, the GOP Congressional Candidate from NW Georgia (14th District).

“The most mistreated group of people in the United States today are white males,” Greene said.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,608
Points
49
Bolton claims that Trump asked President Xi for help with 2020....

Well maybe that is why Trump is suing to keep the book out of the public's hands.... :shrug:


“He then, stunningly, turned the conversation to the coming U.S. presidential election, alluding to China’s economic capability to affect the ongoing campaigns, pleading with Xi to ensure he’d win,” Bolton writes. “He stressed the importance of farmers, and increased Chinese purchases of soybeans and wheat in the electoral outcome. I would print Trump’s exact words but the government’s prepublication review process has decided otherwise.”
 

Gedunker

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Messages
11,391
Points
39
Trump just sucks the wind out of everything. The media can’t help themselves - covering the rally in Tulsa, for example. First, it was Juneteenth and then Coronavirus. Trump refused to acknowledge the valid complaints about the date, and the location in Tulsa, where white supremacists dropped bombs on “ the Black Wall Street”. Relenting, he changed the date from Juneteenth to the Saturday following, but now it is the rising Coronavirus hospitalizations ... But hey, they’ll take temps of attendees, give them hand sanitizer and masks, but not require they wear them or follow CDC guidelines, such as they are. Meanwhile, it is all free media for Trump. Exactly the same thing that happened in 2016. Trump being outrageous demands media coverage, and gives him tons and tons of free media exposure.

The media have to figure out how to not make the same mistake in 2020 or our republic is screwed.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Messages
15,608
Points
49
Perhaps I am mistaken, but our President doesn't exactly give out the money that goes to state DOTs. I mean he approves the budget that the Congress sent him. I would guess that money was part of the FTA list, which generally follows the congress allocation?

Why would you take direct credit for sending money to state DOTs? Oh, because you assume people are too stupid to know how those things work?

"I’m proposing a $50M award to @nevadadot from @USDOT to reconstruct the Tropicana Avenue/I-15 interchange. So important for improving and reducing traffic in this booming area!"

So the President now is the sole decision maker when it comes to DOT funding?

Maybe that is too inside of baseball, but that kind of stuff makes me mad. It would be one thing if he was just allocating some existing line item to do these projects, but this money was already allocated.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
Perhaps I am mistaken, but our President doesn't exactly give out the money that goes to state DOTs. I mean he approves the budget that the Congress sent him. I would guess that money was part of the FTA list, which generally follows the congress allocation?

Why would you take direct credit for sending money to state DOTs? Oh, because you assume people are too stupid to know how those things work?

"I’m proposing a $50M award to @nevadadot from @USDOT to reconstruct the Tropicana Avenue/I-15 interchange. So important for improving and reducing traffic in this booming area!"

So the President now is the sole decision maker when it comes to DOT funding?

Maybe that is too inside of baseball, but that kind of stuff makes me mad. It would be one thing if he was just allocating some existing line item to do these projects, but this money was already allocated.

Remember he had to put HIS name on the stimulus checks too, like that was a gift from Uncle Donnie.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,371
Points
43
Maybe this should be in the political cartoon thread, but...


Somebody in the neighborhood was having some fun with their lawn bags this week:





I'm going to have to start going past this house every Friday to see if they always put something on their bags.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
25,583
Points
59
TikTok Teens and K-Pop Stans Say They Sank Trump Rally

25 Brutal Memes Mocking Trump’s Humiliating Tulsa Rally
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,608
Points
49
Stating publicly that you want less testing, so the numbers look better, is probably one of the more horrible things I have ever heard spoken by a President.

If people are not clearly denouncing this today, I will be really saddened by the political right. No one should cheer less testing, for political perception purposes.

--

Also, after that rally, I am not certain how any Republican can look at themselves in the eyes (likely in a mirror), and feel good about what that guy stands for or believes in. I am not saying that Republicans should like or support Biden (as he is pretty flawed), but can we all at least just admit that Trump is a terrible representation of what we want in our government and move away from this part of our history?

I am tired of people trying to find ways to make his words, his actions, and his morals, make sense. Maybe the Democrats are terrible at having a clear message (they are bad), and maybe the Democrats don't stand for all the most logical positions (they don't), but in a sad political world of pick from the red or blue pill, how can you feel good about swallowing another 4 years of whatever we want to pretend Trump is?

P.S. That rally was embarrassing for what was said in it, not the attendance numbers. The media needs to stop fixating on the numbers, fixate on his terrible, horrible, words.

--

Also this: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/trumps-latest-firing-may-have-violated-four-democratic-values/
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
Stating publicly that you want less testing, so the numbers look better, is probably one of the more horrible things I have ever heard spoken by a President.

If people are not clearly denouncing this today, I will be really saddened by the political right. No one should cheer less testing, for political perception purposes.
The administration is saying it was tongue-in-cheek. He was joking. HA!

6,200 does not equal "over a million"

*****************

The issue with the firing of a federal prosecutor is bigly. Barr saying tRump directed him & tRump saying it was all Barr. This is not good.
So. Very. Sad.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
12,845
Points
51
In 2016, Trump won despite what the polls said. Do you think the polls are more accurate this year?
There was a lack of attendance by some voters because they thought it was a done deal.

Polls are what they are depending on the question & the people answering the polls.

However I do think the polls give us an very broad overall picture.
 

Super Amputee Cat

Cyburbian
Messages
2,193
Points
29
In 2016, Trump won despite what the polls said. Do you think the polls are more accurate this year?
No, to be honest. I am just waiting for the "October Surprise" :( It will far, far worse this year because with the GOP now in power, they will find it much easier to rig the voting machines than ever before. What is really out there to stop them?NYT Magazine 1.jpgNYT Magazine 1a.jpg
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,215
Points
50
In Maine, I am seeing souped up pickups with huge Confederate flags attached to them and I think of this article about how horrible it is to fly that flag up here.

My favorite lines:

Flying a Confederate flag in Maine doesn’t simply celebrate a romantic rebellion, or express pride in one’s race or family. It represents the greatest tragedy in American history, when too many misguided and misled citizens unfortunately fought to break apart this great nation and reject its revolutionary ideals. Though my relatives fought for the South, I’m thankful so many courageous Mainers in the 1860s enlisted — and died — to reconstitute the Union. Flying the Confederate flag up here dishonors their service and insults their memory.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,985
Points
49
How far should we as a society go regarding the removal of offensive statutes? I support those who want the removal of statutes of confederate generals and heroes, however I question the motives behind the removal of other statutes. Take the statute of Christopher Columbus in Richmond VA that was pulled down and thrown into a river a few weeks ago.

Why? Was the guy perfect, no. But I would like to know what the threshold is to remove statutes, names, or symbols of things that people find offensive. Of the 55 delegates to the constitution, about 25 owned slaves. There were others who once had owned slaves but their views on the issue changed and they became anti-slave advocates. This included Ben Franklin and Alexander Hamilton. How about folks like Robert Boyd or Strom Thurmond? Both of these folks have statutes and their racism was extremely apparent in recent society.

As I noted, there are people who's statutes need to come down. But what about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson? How about Ted Kennedy, Ghandi, Churchill, Lincoln, John Lennon, Henry Ford, JFK, MLK, Frank Sinatra, Jonny Cash, John Wayne, or Coco Chanel? All of these people have a statute somewhere in the US. Yet if you look into their personal lives, they all and elements that were highly offensive.

I guess my question is where do we draw the line? If someone did something that one considers offensive, do we erase their name from history? Did the Columbus statute deserve to be at the bottom of the river?
 
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