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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

WSU MUP Student

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They haven't been legally challenged yet. Therefore, they don't want to unilaterally open any cans of worms.

That's what I figure.

Immediately after the elections, they are always start to move a lot quicker to remove them from any ROW, but it's been a few months since the election and I still see a few signs in people's yards. 99% of them are for Trump, and a few have been there since the 2016 election.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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20,602
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54
That's what I figure.

Immediately after the elections, they are always start to move a lot quicker to remove them from any ROW, but it's been a few months since the election and I still see a few signs in people's yards. 99% of them are for Trump, and a few have been there since the 2016 election.
I am curious to see what our HOA does. The crazy liberal a few doors down has complained about another neighbor's Trump sign. But there is another house on our cul-de-sac that has a Biden/Harris yard flag. The HOA prohibits all of these (as well as my U of M flag).

To switch gears, I have a question that I hope does not spiral out of control. One of the EO's that Biden signed would allow transgender athletes to participate in sports as a gender other than their birth. It is already being challenged by a female cross country runner who says that there is no way that she can compete with those who were born as a male because of the muscle mass difference. I wonder about other sports where the performance gap is even greater. Take football, baseball, or some of the track and field events. What are your thoughts. Does this establish an unfair advantage for transgender athletes? Should we eliminate the separation between men's and women's sports?
 

mendelman

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To switch gears, I have a question that I hope does not spiral out of control. One of the EO's that Biden signed would allow transgender athletes to participate in sports as a gender other than their birth. It is already being challenged by a female cross country runner who says that there is no way that she can compete with those who were born as a male because of the muscle mass difference. I wonder about other sports where the performance gap is even greater. Take football, baseball, or some of the track and field events. What are your thoughts. Does this establish an unfair advantage for transgender athletes? Should we eliminate the separation between men's and women's sports?
I think there is too much variability between individual humans (even by gender and the selection bias of a specific sport) to make this presumptive automatic assumption.

Plus, I feel this is much less of a concern for me and/or society (in my opinion) as it's for sports, which is a life luxury not a human right.

Honestly, there shouldn't be a split between genders for sports. It's an outdated human bias.
 

Bubba

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Honestly, there shouldn't be a split between genders for sports. It's an outdated human bias.
tenor.gif
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
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2,841
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45
Honestly, there shouldn't be a split between genders for sports. It's an outdated human bias.

Gotta go with Bubba here. So Lebron playing in the WNBA would be good? Tee boxes should be the same for men and women at the Master's? Sorry, men and women are different. That's biology. Sure there are some outliers but not that many to make those kinds of changes. There is almost a full second difference between 100 meter races for men and women. And the women's record is over 30 years old. So we have a non-gender bias 100 meter dash in the Olympics and women never even place? Sure, that sounds fun.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
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20,602
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54
I think there is too much variability between individual humans (even by gender and the selection bias of a specific sport) to make this presumptive automatic assumption.

Plus, I feel this is much less of a concern for me and/or society (in my opinion) as it's for sports, which is a life luxury not a human right.

Honestly, there shouldn't be a split between genders for sports. It's an outdated human bias.
Do you feel this is true for all sports? In another post you referenced basketball and tennis. What about football, baseball, or hockey? I also think about the Olympics and how there are some co-ed sports but there are also gender specific divisions for events.

I think there are absolutely some sports that should be gender neutral. But I think about sports where mass, size, and strength can be a significant variable, and I am not sold on that as a blanket concept.
 

mendelman

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Do you feel this is true for all sports? In another post you referenced basketball and tennis. What about football, baseball, or hockey? I also think about the Olympics and how there are some co-ed sports but there are also gender specific divisions for events.

I think there are absolutely some sports that should be gender neutral. But I think about sports where mass, size, and strength can be a significant variable, and I am not sold on that as a blanket concept.
Probably some gender neutrality given the sport, I'll grant that, but outliers can be fun too.

And I bet everyone's also interested in my opinion about girls being permitted into the boy scouts organization. :daydream:

EDIT: geez, DVD. :oops: ;)
 
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mendelman

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I feel like I may have missed something in there about scouting, but that I understand the gist of it. :ha:
My original post (subsequently edited because of DVD's post) had vague enough wording to permit easy misinterpretation...by sickos.

;)
 
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WSU MUP Student

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I guess Lindsey Graham took offense to the new Press Secretary's Space Force jokes. Wait 'til he hears what people say about the Air Force.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Our obsession with sports is likely not healthy for our society. I don't disagree that women's sports won't likely exist as they do today, if we were to remove certain definitions for "woman". My question, and I guess what I imagine mendelman is getting at, is who cares?

The likely outcome would be that the WNBA would fold, because there is already a developmental league for the NBA.

Sports where physicality doesn't matter, would be much more co-ed. Which is great. No negative there.

High School sports though likely won't / wouldn't see any changes. Does anyone actually believe that a person who identifies as a man would identify as a woman to play basketball for a high school team? Maybe one. Or two? What happens when the humor of "doing it to screw the man" wears off and you look like an ass? Would you be proud of pretending to be the scoring champ?

I think what is missing from most discussions about this is that most trans people, man or woman, are having enough trouble trying to come to grips with who they are (and the reaction from those they love), that they are not trying to bring more attention to themselves. This is especially true in high school, where life is miserable. I personally don't see that this is going to affect sports to the level that people are seeming to make it become.

Maybe I am just naïve, but I just don't see the disaster that many are saying is coming.
 

mendelman

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I think what is missing from most discussions about this is that most trans people, man or woman, are having enough trouble trying to come to grips with who they are (and the reaction from those they love), that they are not trying to bring more attention to themselves. This is especially true in high school, where life is miserable. I personally don't see that this is going to affect sports to the level that people are seeming to make it become.
100%

Also, the suit is probably more about the threat to scholarship opportunities rather than mere sports(wo)manlike competitiveness, which I can understand, though I don't agree that it's really is so important for society.
 
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mendelman

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232 years ago today, George Washington was certified by the Electoral College as the first President of the United States of America.
 

michaelskis

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54
Over lunch, I read on FB a thing about the democrat leadership asking Biden to cancel student loan debt with an executive order. I was surprised at how difficult it was to find any information outside of right-wing resources, but it appears that Yahoo News picked up the story.


My question is do you think this is a good idea or not. I know that it would help a ton of families out there. But is this executive overreach?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
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Start by reducing the predatory loan interest rates these people have to pay for student loans. Bring all down to 1%-3% at the most.

It's wild to me to think that people have been paying a student loan debt for 10 years and still have a higher balance than their original loan amount.
 

WSU MUP Student

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Over lunch, I read on FB a thing about the democrat leadership asking Biden to cancel student loan debt with an executive order. I was surprised at how difficult it was to find any information outside of right-wing resources, but it appears that Yahoo News picked up the story.


My question is do you think this is a good idea or not. I know that it would help a ton of families out there. But is this executive overreach?

It's important to note that the president can only affect federal student loan debt so if somebody took out a loan through Wells Fargo or one of the other private lenders, they'd be SOL. Unfortunately, those are the lenders that usually have the worst rates, most predatory practices, or are more likely to be lending to students who were "attending" one of those shady for-profit "universities".

Yes, I think it would be a good thing to cancel student loan debt for large swaths of the borrowers. It's unfortunate however that those with the worst loan terms would probably be ineligible.

The argument I most commonly hear against canceling the debt is basically something like, "I paid my loans, so everybody else should have to as well!" Of course that makes for good sound bites or those who harp on personal responsibility on this subject, but that seems to boil down to, "I didn't have nice things, so neither should you!" :r:

There needs to be a major overhaul in how we prioritize higher education and vocational training in this country and how we pay for it. I don't think canceling federal student loan debt would solve the issues around it but it would be a good first step. Then we'd need to figure out what to do about people attending college tomorrow or next year. Will there continue to be federal loans, just in some other form that goes directly to the university? Will the federal government set rates as to what colleges and universities can charge per credit hour and the government will reimburse up to that amount and then the rest is the student's responsibility?
 

Maister

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I think states and federal governments should majorly subsidize trades and vocational training. Like any investment there's a cost, but the payoff of having a skilled workforce pays dividends in many ways. Not everyone is designed to go to university or be a software coder.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
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45
Over lunch, I read on FB a thing about the democrat leadership asking Biden to cancel student loan debt with an executive order. I was surprised at how difficult it was to find any information outside of right-wing resources, but it appears that Yahoo News picked up the story.


My question is do you think this is a good idea or not. I know that it would help a ton of families out there. But is this executive overreach?
Just so you know this has literally been covered by all the news sources for months. The fact you're not seeing it a lot of places is because that news cycle has moved on.
 

Hink

OH....IO
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I think states and federal governments should majorly subsidize trades and vocational training. Like any investment there's a cost, but the payoff of having a skilled workforce pays dividends in many ways. Not everyone is designed to go to university or be a software coder.
I think we should make becoming an electrician, plumber, construction trade, etc. free. What about training for infrastructure replacement projects - solar panel, electric grid, etc. experts?

I would rather see us invest in specific training, than just forgive loans. I get why it would help, but I also have a tough time with the government prioritizing that debt over feeding the homeless, etc. It wasn't the government that required you to go to college. If the government isn't willing to provide a solid backstop in terms of the social services needs of our country, I have a difficult time justifying that we should prioritize debt for people who were making a choice. I certainly also support rethinking how we manage college, and the expectations on students (which led to many people taking out debt and going to college when they shouldn't have). My problem is that there are students who go to college for 5 years because they don't know who they are, or what they want to be, and rack up debt too. I would love to pick out the people who got a degree and are using it and are still underwater, from someone who got a liberal arts degree and took 6 six years to do it.
 

Maister

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Twitter Goes Nuts After Rep. Greene Blames Others Who ‘Allowed Her to Believe’ Bonkers Conspiracies: ‘One of the Most BS PR Spin Lines Ever’​

What annoys me about the Greene nuttery is when you get right wingers trying to diminish by drawing some sort of false equivalence about how 'dems have people just as insane like that Ocasio Cortez. You don't see her getting her committee assignments yanked' While she may have some politically naïve viewpoints, she's not even in the same league with Greene, whose career is founded on promoting bigoted conspiracy theories and embracing political violence. Equivalence here would be if Occasio Cortez agreed that minority leader McCarthy should get removed from office via a bullet in the head.
 
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mendelman

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Thinking about it further, claiming she was being 'allowed' to believe such lunacy as a defense is surely worse.

It convicts oneself as easily manipulated and lacking any objective judgement, discernment and intellect, which is not any quality I want in my Representatives or any Representatives.

She is a complete waste of space in the House of Representatives.
 
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JNA

Cyburbian Plus
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MyPillow CEO Mike Lindell Makes 3-Hour Conspiracy Documentary About the Election​




David Hogg launching pillow company to compete with MyPillow's Mike Lindell​

 

michaelskis

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What are your thoughts on the lack of partisanship over the COVID stimulus plan? Do you think a compromise could have been reached? Or do you think that the democrats are using it as a victory lap to shove the lack of power in the GOP's face?
 

giff57

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What are your thoughts on the lack of partisanship over the COVID stimulus plan? Do you think a compromise could have been reached? Or do you think that the democrats are using it as a victory lap to shove the lack of power in the GOP's face?
I think if the Republican proposal would have been closer to Biden's ask it would have been possible. The Republicans knew it was a poison pill when they brought it. Both sides still playing games...
 

Hink

OH....IO
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What are your thoughts on the lack of partisanship over the COVID stimulus plan? Do you think a compromise could have been reached? Or do you think that the democrats are using it as a victory lap to shove the lack of power in the GOP's face?
I am pretty confident that the GOP is lost when it comes to what compromise means now. The D's aren't great, but generally they actually at least pretend to try. When the Republicans have power they ignore Democrats, and when they don't have power, they don't let anything get accomplished unless it meets some litmus test, which is never going to happen.

Middle ground is hard to come by when you have Cawthorne, Greene, Jordan, etc. in the house, whom have no interest in policy, just politics, or in the case of Greene space lasers.
 

michaelskis

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Quite interesting.


It is his own fault for going along with Trump all these years. He had so many moments to do the right thing, but he did not step up.
 

Maister

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It is his own fault for going along with Trump all these years. He had so many moments to do the right thing, but he did not step up.
In a nutshell. And of course Pence is hardly the only one guilty of this sin. In hindsight, there were many occasions where members of his own party could have stepped in and headed off Trump's rush to cray cray.
 

mendelman

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In a nutshell. And of course Pence is hardly the only one guilty of this sin. In hindsight, there were many occasions where members of his own party could have stepped in and headed off Trump's rush to cray cray.
This is all the history books that will be written about this time.

amsterdam-northern-netherlands-june-24-260nw-1021798684.jpg


I guess some people don't care which side of history they're on.
 
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MD Planner

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Does anybody else think the stimulus proposals are getting out of hand? I mean, you (and by you I mean the federal government) just can't keep doling out cash to people. Especially people who are working. The cost is mind-boggling. Give real money to people who have lost jobs, increase unemployment payouts etc. But just giving money to people is sort of insane in my mind. The extra money is nice, but the reality is many of us continued to work and get paid. Use the money to increase vaccine supply and distribution, but handing it out like candy just doesn't make that much sense to me.

And I'm not saying there aren't income problems in this country. But $1,400 is not going to solve those problems. But hey, it feels good in the moment right?
 

DVD

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I'm conflicted on the bonus money. On the greedy side, I like extra money when you give it to me. On the other hand, I really don't need it. It helped pay a couple bills and fix my AC when it was down, but I'm not out of a job or out of a home or even close. I understand my spending extra money on crap keeps people in jobs, but the conservative side of me would rather see:
  • infrastructure spending to get people back to work
  • target unemployment - help those that really need it
  • small business loans/grants to keep them in operation and require them to keep the people they have employed.

I'm sure we could come up with other things, but the point is that I will miss the $1,400, but then again, I won't.
 

michaelskis

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This is all the history books that will be written about this time.

amsterdam-northern-netherlands-june-24-260nw-1021798684.jpg


I guess some people don't care which side of history they're on.
No...

This is all the books that will be written about this time:
41tW1MG862L._AC_.jpg


Does anybody else think the stimulus proposals are getting out of hand? I mean, you (and by you I mean the federal government) just can't keep doling out cash to people. Especially people who are working. The cost is mind-boggling. Give real money to people who have lost jobs, increase unemployment payouts etc. But just giving money to people is sort of insane in my mind. The extra money is nice, but the reality is many of us continued to work and get paid. Use the money to increase vaccine supply and distribution, but handing it out like candy just doesn't make that much sense to me.

And I'm not saying there aren't income problems in this country. But $1,400 is not going to solve those problems. But hey, it feels good in the moment right?
I'm conflicted on the bonus money. On the greedy side, I like extra money when you give it to me. On the other hand, I really don't need it. It helped pay a couple bills and fix my AC when it was down, but I'm not out of a job or out of a home or even close. I understand my spending extra money on crap keeps people in jobs, but the conservative side of me would rather see:
  • infrastructure spending to get people back to work
  • target unemployment - help those that really need it
  • small business loans/grants to keep them in operation and require them to keep the people they have employed.

I'm sure we could come up with other things, but the point is that I will miss the $1,400, but then again, I won't.

Let me ask you this. If they sent you the check, would you be willing to distribute it to people in your community that you know would need it more than you do?
 

Hink

OH....IO
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Does anybody else think the stimulus proposals are getting out of hand? I mean, you (and by you I mean the federal government) just can't keep doling out cash to people. Especially people who are working. The cost is mind-boggling. Give real money to people who have lost jobs, increase unemployment payouts etc. But just giving money to people is sort of insane in my mind. The extra money is nice, but the reality is many of us continued to work and get paid. Use the money to increase vaccine supply and distribution, but handing it out like candy just doesn't make that much sense to me.

And I'm not saying there aren't income problems in this country. But $1,400 is not going to solve those problems. But hey, it feels good in the moment right?
I think how we handle government money is out of hand. We do not have any parties that care about budgets or spending. The libertarian in me is continually troubled by our unwillingness to make hard choices when it comes to the budget. The R's can pretend they care, but Trump didn't clearly. The D's certainly don't care what the budget is and cannot / will not make the hard choices that are required on the military budget.

I am not against the stimulus money generally, but I don't think it is doing what you are trying to achieve. I think looking at ways to reduce people's costs would be more beneficial than giving people money without restriction. Why not put a freeze on rental payments, and pay the building owners to do that? Or remove property taxes for a year, and give local governments that money? I understand that many situations wouldn't help this group or that group, but there is at least a clear reason for the money.

Giving someone who makes $75k a year an additional $1,400 per person, just because, isn't getting at the issue we have right now, which is the squeeze at the bottom and a job market that is not helping get people paid.

I also think that a $15/hr. minimum wage wouldn't end the world. So who knows where I stand... ;)
 
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