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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
15,424
Points
53
Let me ask you this. If they sent you the check, would you be willing to distribute it to people in your community that you know would need it more than you do?
Nope, I'm a greedy SOB. Which goes to why were you stupid enough to give me money. Actually we did donate some to our favorite charities.
 

terraplnr

Cyburbian
Messages
2,418
Points
29
Let me ask you this. If they sent you the check, would you be willing to distribute it to people in your community that you know would need it more than you do?
I wish. o_O I sent extra payments to my lawyer instead, who definitely doesn't need it more than I do (custody-related legal fees courtesy of my ex). At least he's a decent guy. :r: Maybe he'll donate some of it.
 

dw914er

Cyburbian
Messages
1,529
Points
21
Does anybody else think the stimulus proposals are getting out of hand? I mean, you (and by you I mean the federal government) just can't keep doling out cash to people. Especially people who are working. The cost is mind-boggling. Give real money to people who have lost jobs, increase unemployment payouts etc. But just giving money to people is sort of insane in my mind. The extra money is nice, but the reality is many of us continued to work and get paid. Use the money to increase vaccine supply and distribution, but handing it out like candy just doesn't make that much sense to me.

And I'm not saying there aren't income problems in this country. But $1,400 is not going to solve those problems. But hey, it feels good in the moment right?

I would imagine people would complain that they had to work, had they known that they could have just received cash and not worked, they would have.

I do think those that did keep working may have still had other issues that made life tougher, including reduced hours, or new expenses to cope with working during COVID.

Let me ask you this. If they sent you the check, would you be willing to distribute it to people in your community that you know would need it more than you do?
We donated some of the last one to Planned Parenthood and our synagogue, and also used it to support local businesses.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,013
Points
59
meme_firstimpeachlawyergrocerybag.jpeg
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
13,001
Points
55
on the stimulus checks - I think they are necessary if we are going to tell people to isolate and stay home due to a worldwide pandemic then we have to realize that people will lose their job/business because of that happening and we need to compensate people for it - the Pay protection program was a joke - it's more efficient to pay the people so they can pay their bills, rent/mortgages - that 2k should have gone out every month and in the end, it's cheap change that could have prevented some (not all) of the deaths

if you, as a taxpayer, decide to give that money away, then there should be something on next year's tax forms that allows you to deduct the money from your taxable income and provide a receipt that it went to a non profit
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,687
Points
43
I did see that Krispy Kreme on one of my runs and thought about taking a couple dollars with me so I could stop and get a couple donuts and eat them while I went the final few blocks back to the hotel but decided against it since I didn't think anybody wanted to be in line next to a sweaty gross runner. I did make a couple trips to Mary Mac's across the street from there though (not while in running gear). I told my wife I would move to ATL just to be able to have chicken from there every day.
Massive fire there early this morning. :cursing:

 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
Well, back to politics....


I know there was talk of Trump starting a new party, now there are 120 anti-Trump Republicans looking to start a new party with a conservative foundation. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out and who all becomes part of it, IF it becomes reality. I don't think it will, but you never know.

I also think that it will be a substantial hit to the current Republican party and is further evidence on the fracturing of the GOP.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,989
Points
51
Well, back to politics....


I know there was talk of Trump starting a new party, now there are 120 anti-Trump Republicans looking to start a new party with a conservative foundation. It will be interesting to see how that shakes out and who all becomes part of it, IF it becomes reality. I don't think it will, but you never know.

I also think that it will be a substantial hit to the current Republican party and is further evidence on the fracturing of the GOP.

If I've learned anything from anti-Trump republicans over the last 4 years, it's to not expect them to actually do anything about their anti-Trumpiness.

I don't see the official forming of a new party, splintered off from the mainstream GOP, happening anytime soon. Maybe anti-Trump members in the House will form some sort of official caucus (a Congressional Member Organization) like the Tuesday Group or the Republican Main Street Partnership, but besides being vocal about something, do caucuses have any actual power? Unless they've got many votes and are willing to actually vote in a bloc, the answer is a resounding "No."
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,244
Points
59
If I've learned anything from anti-Trump republicans over the last 4 years, it's to not expect them to actually do anything about their anti-Trumpiness.

I don't see the official forming of a new party, splintered off from the mainstream GOP, happening anytime soon. Maybe anti-Trump members in the House will form some sort of official caucus (a Congressional Member Organization) like the Tuesday Group or the Republican Main Street Partnership, but besides being vocal about something, do caucuses have any actual power? Unless they've got many votes and are willing to actually vote in a bloc, the answer is a resounding "No."
I think 2022 will be the real proof. In Ohio, Josh Mendel is running for Portman's seat and he made a HUGE deal about the impeachment and how he was going to follow the Trump policies, etc. If he wins the primary over more what I call in Ohio "Kasich Republicans", I think you know that there will be a split sooner than later. I think if they manage to tamp him down and more center right Republicans win the primary, than they have a chance.

In the end the Republican party is going to splinter if they cannot convince the far right to accept Mitt Romney, and John McCain, and Susan Collins, etc. The unholy alliance that makes up the Republican party for the last 20 years has always been odd, but it seems that if you got enough money behind a group that dropped the social contract with America, and went for business people who don't care about religion, but care about budgets, etc., they would get a large group of center right and left, and likely libertarians. If that group pushed a green agenda for rebuilding America, they may just have enough to be a player....
 
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Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,732
Points
45
I think the Democratic impeachment managers did a fantastic job outlining the case for conviction against Trump. I'd like to think there's going to be a "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" moment here, but I know there are a ton of Republican senators that lack cajones and the senate will acquit.

Still, every once in a while I let myself hope, only surely to have it cruelly dashed.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
13,928
Points
55
A group of Republican senators met with tRump's defense team this week in a closed door meeting.

That sounds all fair and open and non-political, don't you think?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
13,928
Points
55

When asked if he's now comfortable with the Trump team's legal strategy, Cruz said, "I think the end result of this impeachment trial is crystal clear to everybody."
"Donald Trump will be acquitted," he added. "It takes 67 votes to convict him and every person in the Senate chamber understands that there are not the votes to convict, nor should there be."
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
Wow... if this gets any worse, I think Andrew Como's political career will be over... if it's not already.

 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
I was just told that Rush Limbaugh passed away. Years ago that my dad mentioned the ratings for his show were more than double any other political talk radio show back when Clinton was President.

Given is views and history with Talk Radio, what are your thoughts on this. Do you think he had an impact on American politics?
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,841
Points
45
I wrote something but then deleted it. Something about not speaking ill . . . . Let's just say I never found him particularly meaningful toward civil dialogue and discourse in our country. To be fair, he's not the only one in that club. But he certainly had a seat on the board of directors.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,244
Points
59
I think Rush's impact to reasonable dialog, and fair treatment is what will live on. He made having a conversation and being able to disagree something that was all of a sudden bad. He pushed politics over rationality and reason.

My hope is that with him goes his (and Trump's) worldview, that if you don't agree with someone they are stupid.

Here's to a world without political talk show hosts and talk radio.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
President Biden has said that he would reject the $50,000 payoff of federal student loans, and would only support payoffs of $10,000 and free community college tuition for those families making less than $175,000 a year. He also indicated that he does not believe that he can use executive order to forgive student loan debt.

What are your thoughts on this, especially being that he is breaking with the democrat position on this? Do you think that something will become reality within his administration or do you think it will just linger on as discussion for decades?


As for Talk Radio, I don't think that this is the end of it.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,013
Points
59
...the democrat position on this?
This is pedantic, but it's 'democratic'.

Unhelpful epithets...

As for your full question...I'm good with $10,000 forgiveness and free CC educations.

I look back on the leg up my dad received in NYS in the 1960s when he received a free undergraduate degree from the SUNY at Buffalo. This surely gave him a great head start having grownup blue collar, lower income inner-city Buffalo.
 
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MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,841
Points
45
Yeah I'm good with the 10K too. People enter into these loans knowing what is involved. Now I am ALL in favor of figuring out a much cleaner path to forgiveness for certain careers and also for a much easier ability to restructure and refinance student loans. That makes perfect sense to me. But it's a little difficult for me to feel overly compassionate for someone who racked up over 100K in debt obtaining a PhD in French literature. And the reality is most of that is money the feds fronted for these students. We have a lot of needs in this country and not getting paid back trillions will have an impact.

I am glad to see the tide slowly shifting in that people are starting to understand and accept that not everyone has to go to college in order to earn very decent wages. Vocational and other technical training is becoming more and more skilled but that doesn't mean that they need to take English Lit and Art Appreciation.
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
15,424
Points
53
As a person with a ton of student loan debt I'll take all I can get, but that's the selfish part of me. Otherwise I'll stick with plan A which is get that 10 year public service payoff. I like the free community college thing and 10k assistance will go pretty far for a lot of people.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
This is pedantic, but it's 'democratic'.

Unhelpful epithets...

As for your full question...I'm good with $10,000 forgiveness and free CC educations.

I look back on the leg up my dad received in NYS in the 1960s when he received a free undergraduate degree from the SUNY at Buffalo. This surely gave him a great head start having grownup blue collar, lower income inner-city Buffalo.
Yeah I'm good with the 10K too. People enter into these loans knowing what is involved. Now I am ALL in favor of figuring out a much cleaner path to forgiveness for certain careers and also for a much easier ability to restructure and refinance student loans. That makes perfect sense to me. But it's a little difficult for me to feel overly compassionate for someone who racked up over 100K in debt obtaining a PhD in French literature. And the reality is most of that is money the feds fronted for these students. We have a lot of needs in this country and not getting paid back trillions will have an impact.

I am glad to see the tide slowly shifting in that people are starting to understand and accept that not everyone has to go to college in order to earn very decent wages. Vocational and other technical training is becoming more and more skilled but that doesn't mean that they need to take English Lit and Art Appreciation.
As a person with a ton of student loan debt I'll take all I can get, but that's the selfish part of me. Otherwise I'll stick with plan A which is get that 10 year public service payoff. I like the free community college thing and 10k assistance will go pretty far for a lot of people.
I don't disagree, but I wonder if they will actually be able to get it done.

(As for the "Democrat" vs Democratic Party, I was not aware of that. I am still going to call them Democrats though... same with the Republicans.)
 

Super Amputee Cat

Cyburbian
Messages
2,423
Points
33
As someone who was broke all throughout the 1980s because I had always paid my own tuition, I am not in favor of complete forgiveness. It's going to have to be paid for somehow and no one should be let completely off the hook. I paid my way, so should they.

I am in favor of partial forgiveness, plus a really low interest rate. That's what I've heard is the real problem. All lot of these student loans are outsourced to private companies who charge up to 6%. It should be no more than 1% or 2% or so to cover loan servicing fees and there needs to be a department in the federal government that will oversee it all, and to take down the predatory lenders.
 

Super Amputee Cat

Cyburbian
Messages
2,423
Points
33
I was just told that Rush Limbaugh passed away. Years ago that my dad mentioned the ratings for his show were more than double any other political talk radio show back when Clinton was President.

Given is views and history with Talk Radio, what are your thoughts on this. Do you think he had an impact on American politics?

He was a monster that spewed nothing but poison and hate for 30+ years. Other than Hannity, I can think of no other talk show host that has done more to divide this country with his relentless spew. The fact that he got a Presidential Medal of Freedom is an insult to all the other recipients that had received it.

Oh well. At least he can't hurt anyone anymore.
 

The Terminator

Cyburbian
Messages
1,702
Points
23
As someone who was broke all throughout the 1980s because I had always paid my own tuition, I am not in favor of complete forgiveness. It's going to have to be paid for somehow and no one should be let completely off the hook. I paid my way, so should they.

I am in favor of partial forgiveness, plus a really low interest rate. That's what I've heard is the real problem. All lot of these student loans are outsourced to private companies who charge up to 6%. It should be no more than 1% or 2% or so to cover loan servicing fees and there needs to be a department in the federal government that will oversee it all, and to take down the predatory lenders.
In Fall 1979-Spring 1980, my Father's tuition as a Freshman at New York University was $3200 for the academic year, adjusted for Inflation, that is about $10,750 in 2020 dollars. He paid his own books and incremental fees from working as a Bank Teller that previous summer, and my Nonno, who was a Airline Safety Inspector for the FAA, paid the rest. Nonno Tony brought home about $35,000 per year in 1979 dollars, about 117,000 today. My father completed his 4 years without financial aid. Today, one academic year at NYU will run you about $54,880. Without financial aid, there would be no way my Father would be able to afford NYU if he were born 40 years later and came from a similar economic background.

I too, have little sympathy for dumb liberal millennials who rack up hundreds of thousands in debt for brand-name liberal arts educations and "useless" social justice-y degrees; like many of my cohort, but I don't blame working and middle class students for trying to educate themselves. And while I may raise an eyebrow at the absurdity of much of Academia these days, I do see an intellectual value in the humanities, beyond the value that the market places on such degrees. I don't think "Learn to code" or "you should have chosen STEM" is necessarily the answer for everyone, I don't think that everyone in a society needs to necessarily be a "producer". There comes a point where you can't "personal finance" your way out of a cost of living and salaries that are out of whack with inflation, and you have to decry the greed of private, elite educational institutions.

Student loan forgiveness is not a question of "rewarding bad behavior", it is a question of correcting structural inequities.

Tout cela dit: If I knew what I did today in 2009, when I graduated High School in the midst of the Great Recession; I probably would have chosen to go to Trade School to learn Metal Fabrication and Auto Body work instead of pursuing my UG Urban Studies degree and getting into Planning. I would make a KILLING fixing the cars of all my classmates who went on to become doctors and lawyers, and would have enough business income from "Sergio's European Collision and Autobody" that I would also be able to pay it forward by putting my less fortunate friends into cheap beaters that I rescued from insurance auctions at song and dance prices.........that would be the life!

Unrelated: I am glad Rush Limbaugh is dead. It was a shame he didn't croak 25 years ago. There was nothing redeemable about that man, I consider him to be on the same plane of nefariousness as David Duke.

Controversial opinion: There is an empty chair in Hell next to Rush for Bill Maher.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,602
Points
54
Was the A$$H@T of the day but

Texas mayor who wrote 'only the strong will survive' amid deadly winter storm says he has resigned​

The guys wife also got fired too... and she had nothing to do with it. What are your thoughts? Should she be held accountable for her husbands actions?
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,841
Points
45
The guys wife also got fired too... and she had nothing to do with it. What are your thoughts? Should she be held accountable for her husbands actions?

I haven't seen any real proof thus far that she was "fired" for anything related to her idiot husband. That being said, if she was and she wasn't posting anything inflammatory I'd have a real problem with that. Being married to a jerk isn't a crime. At least not yet.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
29,470
Points
73
The guys wife also got fired too... and she had nothing to do with it. What are your thoughts? Should she be held accountable for her husbands actions?
I can't imagine why the wife got fired. Could there maybe be some other reason, apart from her being married to a douchebag?
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
10,989
Points
51
I can't imagine why the wife got fired. Could there maybe be some other reason, apart from her being married to a douchebag?

You mean other than the fact that she was likely an at-will employee in a state that has been whittling away what little labor protections they had?
 
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