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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
What?! Matt Gaetz is a terrible human? I would have never guessed it...

So this Infrastructure Bill is going to be interesting. I like the public transit funding concept, but hopefully it will require that we look at future solutions, not just funding the old broke solutions. And there are big numbers with vague details. I am very interested to see those details, because what could be a good bill, is looking more and more like an attempt to push social policy along with investment in infrastructure... which is going to make the infrastructure bill harder to actually get adopted.



I personally think the infrastructure part of this is terrific and I think that the course of action to make it happen is not unreasonable. I do think that in addition to increased taxes in some sectors, I also think that they need to cut a lot of the wasteful things that are being funded right now. I would love to see a greater focus on alternative transportation options such as train, hyperloop, electric charging station installations, and improved utilities.
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,767
Points
45
I personally think the infrastructure part of this is terrific and I think that the course of action to make it happen is not unreasonable. I do think that in addition to increased taxes in some sectors, I also think that they need to cut a lot of the wasteful things that are being funded right now. I would love to see a greater focus on alternative transportation options such as train, hyperloop, electric charging station installations, and improved utilities.

I'm torn on this bill. On one hand, my inner fiscal conservative rolls his eyes and groans. On the other hand, this is the infrastructure-development consultant part of my brain right now:

70b192e2fd16f1da72a2565951407c02.gif
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
6,018
Points
36
The voting restriction measures that are gradually creeping scross state legislatures are generating lots of discussion. On a media report about Delta pushing back against Georgia's new laws, there's an entertaining exchange.

Someone who lives in Boston: "pretty sure it’s always been against the law to give any voter, anything while standing in line as it can been seen as influential. Damn people of Georgia with the water
🙄
Bring your own if your that parched of a person!"
(doesn't she seem nice?)

Me: "actually ... it's not. Polling places have always extended amenities to those inside. I don't live in Georgia, but on my visits there I've noticed that it can be pretty warm. Can't imagine standing in a queue to vote, with hundreds of others, for hours.
Just be kind, it goes a lot further.
(y)
"

Her: [laugh react} "actually, it is illegal. Please learn the law. People need to bring their own water. No one stands in lines for “hours” to vote, so stop."

And she offered this expertise:

Actual quote from that link:
"QUESTION:
Is it legal under federal law to hand out food to voters waiting in line at polling places?
ANSWER:
Yes, as long as they are not asking for anything in return or trying to influence someone's vote."
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,767
Points
45
The voting restriction measures that are gradually creeping scross state legislatures are generating lots of discussion. On a media report about Delta pushing back against Georgia's new laws, there's an entertaining exchange...

As it's behind a paywall:

The public debate on Georgia’s new voting law has become a stew of falsehood, propaganda and panic. Part of the blame lies with the partisan distortion of Democrats, part with their media echoes, and now part with CEOs of major companies who are uninformed at best or cowardly at worst.

Start with President Biden, the great unifier, who on Wednesday to ESPN called the law “ Jim Crow on steroids,” while saying he’d “strongly support” moving the Major League Baseball all-star game out of Atlanta. He’s picking up the smear about Georgia from Stacey Abrams, who still hasn’t accepted that she lost the race for Peach State Governor in 2018.

“You’re going to close a polling place at 5 o’clock, when working people just get off?” he said to ESPN. “This is all about keeping working folks, and ordinary folks that I grew up with, from being able to vote.” Mr. Biden either doesn’t know what’s in the Georgia bill or he is lying about it. We’d like to believe it’s the former, but that gets harder to credit as his falsehoods multiply.

On Election Day in Georgia, anyone in line by 7 p.m. gets a ballot. The new law requires an extra Saturday of voting, while specifying early voting hours: The minimum is 9 a.m. to 5 p.m., but counties may run 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. In metro areas, “you might not notice a change,” explains Georgia Public Broadcasting. Elsewhere, “you will have an extra weekend day, and your weekday early voting hours will likely be longer.”

Then there are the big companies racing out PR statements of condemnation, though what’s often most conspicuous is their vagueness. The voting law “is unacceptable and does not match Delta’s values,” said the airline’s CEO, Ed Bastian. He groveled that he’d had “time to now fully understand all that is in the bill.”

What a clumsy emergency landing. Last week Mr. Bastian said that “concerns remain” about the law, while he explained—accurately—that it “expands weekend voting, codifies Sunday voting and protects a voter’s ability to cast an absentee ballot without providing a reason.” He added: “For the first time, drop boxes have also been authorized for all counties statewide.”

What changed in the interim? Could it be that he has bowed to the woke mob, as the path of least political and commercial resistance? Why not stay silent if you don’t know what you’re talking about or can’t stand the heat?

Gov. Brian Kemp, who signed the bill, rightly called foul: “Today’s statement by Delta CEO Ed Bastian stands in stark contrast to our conversations with the company, ignores the content of the new law, and unfortunately continues to spread the same false attacks.”

Or take Coca-Cola’s watery statement. “We are disappointed in the outcome of the Georgia voting legislation,” said CEO James Quincey. “Our focus is now on supporting federal legislation that protects voting access and addresses voter suppression across the country.” He cited no specifics about either bill. Apparently Coke’s secret ingredient is pandering.

When woke progressives target a company with tactics like a “die-in,” as Coke received last month, CEOs seem to view a mealy-mouthed statement as cheap insurance. But surely we should expect more from senior business executives, who are supposed to have some backbone and concern for the facts. They’d react with high dudgeon if similar falsehoods were spread about their companies.

Yet so much of this CEO posturing cites no facts—or even fails to mention the word “Georgia.” American Express stands “against any efforts to suppress voting,” said CEO Steve Squeri. “ BlackRock is concerned about efforts that could limit access to the ballot,” said CEO Larry Fink. “Governments should be working to make it easier to vote, not harder,” said Cisco CEO Chuck Robbins.

Georgia’s law does make it easier to vote, though it also tries to reassure citizens about ballot integrity. The state provides far more days of early voting than New York. It offers no-excuse absentee ballots, unlike Mr. Biden’s beloved Delaware. So who’s really suppressing whom? Georgia’s new law puts limits on drop boxes, but as Delta’s Mr. Bastian now regrets pointing out last week, it also makes them a permanent part of the voting system. In 2019, before Covid, drop boxes were illegal.

***
CEOs may think there’s no downside to hopping on a bandwagon that insinuates that Georgia’s GOP leaders are inveterate racists. But far from dodging our partisan political warfare, they’re taking a side and promoting more division. They and their companies may pay the price when the woke mob decides to turn on them and they need GOP protection.
 
Messages
2,959
Points
23
I can't understand why there's even debate on this essential right. The reason why congress should not pass any laws restricting gun ownership is spelled out explicitly in the Constitution - it's so we can maintain militias! What is so hard to understand about that? That's why so many many of us patriots report once a month to the village green so that we can perform line drills with our muskets under the watchful eye of the Company commander (and what a dashing figure he cuts perched gallantly upon his stallion with sabre drawn). Sure, some of the poorer members lack the funds necessary to purchase those newfangled socketed bayonets and the grenadiers never seem to have the necessary supplies Continental Congress continually promises, but it is through such patriotic fervor that our lands are kept free from foreign kings and potentates.
Absolutely brilliant!!

Just logged on to say that. Now I'm logging off.
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,767
Points
45
Andy Marlette
Pensacola News Journal


c2e0bda8-90c0-4a97-880c-58824fd7a74d-2021.03.26-georgia-election-law.jpg
You know, @JNA, after four-plus years of you (rightfully) posting about Trump lying, it's pretty darn amusing that you're buying the left's lies about the recently passed Georgia voting law without a second thought. Maybe you should do yourself a favor and actually read what was passed, and then compare it to the state's voting regs in 2018 (the last pre-pandemic election), and then compare it to the multiple blue states with more restrictive voting laws than Georgia....or does than not fit this BS narrative?

EDIT: ...and now @JNA's post has been deleted. How craven is that? Man up and own your post, dude.
 
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DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
15,481
Points
53
I just look at the whole Georgia thing this way, don't be making it harder for me to vote. I'm a lazy man and I like just signing my ballot and sending it in. Also Georgia, stop with the multiple run off elections. I just want to vote once - goes back to the lazy thing. Then again, I don't live in Georgia so it's not my problem. I will say stuff like handing out water to people in line is kind of lame, but I have a feeling there is more to the story that I don't care about.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,932
Points
47
Well actually in some ways it might actually make it easier for you to vote. But don't let the facts get in the way of what's actually happening. That's not a slam at you DVD. Just at this full-blown hysteria ginned up by some folks folks talking about Jim Crow. Talk about hyperbole.

And for the record, I'm a pretty (unaffiliated) liberal guy. But I have exactly ZERO problem with having to provide identification in order to vote. Many states, including Georgia actually offer free state-issued ID's that can be used for voting purposes.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
Absolutely brilliant!!

Just logged on to say that. Now I'm logging off.

It's still not correct if you read the writings of those who wrote and approved the bill of rights... but hey, why let facts get in the way of emotion.

Well actually in some ways it might actually make it easier for you to vote. But don't let the facts get in the way of what's actually happening. That's not a slam at you DVD. Just at this full-blown hysteria ginned up by some folks folks talking about Jim Crow. Talk about hyperbole.

And for the record, I'm a pretty (unaffiliated) liberal guy. But I have exactly ZERO problem with having to provide identification in order to vote. Many states, including Georgia actually offer free state-issued ID's that can be used for voting purposes.

Ok, I might be missing something with all of this. First let me say I am in favor of showing my ID when I go to vote. I am also in favor of making ID's free for anyone over a particular age. But I also support the idea of early voting and being able to to early vote at a location other than your primary polling place. I also think that there should be a standardized national system when it comes to presidential elections that allows early voting for 4 weeks before the election and roll right into the election. I think that all the polls should close at 8pm the night of the election and if you are in line, you get to vote. If you are not in line at 8:00 PM on local time, you don't vote. It does not matter how long the line is. I also think that no results should be provided until 48 hours until the close of the last poll. That way the results on the east coast will not influence the results on the west coast.

(I also had other thoughts about elimination of gerrymandering and not having states be a winner take all, but I have explained that in the past so I won't go into that again)


On a side note... what are your thoughts on this:
 
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DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
15,481
Points
53
I'm just saying don't make it hard for me to vote. Arizona was floating an idea of making me notarize my mail in ballot. Somewhere was the idea that you had to mail them a copy of your license with the ballot. That's a big no. I don't want copies of my license floating around even if it is a supposedly secure voting location.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
I'm just saying don't make it hard for me to vote. Arizona was floating an idea of making me notarize my mail in ballot. Somewhere was the idea that you had to mail them a copy of your license with the ballot. That's a big no. I don't want copies of my license floating around even if it is a supposedly secure voting location.
So are more concerned about a photo copy of your license than you are about your ballot?

My issues with mail-in ballots are that things like this would continue:
 

Dan

Dear Leader
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
19,161
Points
71
re: this post by @michaelskis:


... an somehow 25% of the households on our cul-de-sac are occupied by extremist liberals. (One called the cops on me because she heard that I own guns, another told me that he was offended because I have an American flag flying on my front porch.) ...

Do you let your politics influence how well you get along with your neighbors? I live in a very blue community. One of my next door neighbor is fairly conservative. We never talk about politics, but he has a few conservative bumper stickers up in his garage. Nonetheless, we're friendly, and we even share some responsibilities for our shared drive. (It's technically my property, but there's an easement for access to both of my neighbors. He clears snow; I maintain the pea gravel surface.)

I'm not outward about my left-leaning-but-not-woke ideology to my neighbors. There's a bunch of bumper stickers on one of my recycling bins; a few have environmental messages, but none of them are political. I fly the Stars and Stripes on national holidays, and try to maintain a turf lawn as best as I can with our clay soils. Around here, that might signal to others that we lean to the right. Anyhow, I've had nothing but positive exchanges with folks on my block -- except a grumpy, crunchy crone the next cluster over, whose animals all hate men for some reason.

As for gun-owning neighbors, that's none of my business. I know a lot of left-leaning people who own a gun or two, so I can't make assumptions. Even then, it doesn't matter.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
11,081
Points
52
re: this post by @michaelskis:




Do you let your politics influence how well you get along with your neighbors? I live in a very blue community. One of my next door neighbor is fairly conservative. We never talk about politics, but he has a few conservative bumper stickers up in his garage. Nonetheless, we're friendly, and we even share some responsibilities for our shared drive. (It's technically my property, but there's an easement for access to both of my neighbors. He clears snow; I maintain the pea gravel surface.)

I'm not outward about my left-leaning-but-not-woke ideology to my neighbors. There's a bunch of bumper stickers on one of my recycling bins; a few have environmental messages, but none of them are political. I fly the Stars and Stripes on national holidays, and try to maintain a turf lawn as best as I can with our clay soils. Around here, that might signal to others that we lean to the right. Anyhow, I've had nothing but positive exchanges with folks on my block -- except a grumpy, crunchy crone the next cluster over, whose animals all hate men for some reason.

As for gun-owning neighbors, that's none of my business. I know a lot of left-leaning people who own a gun or two, so I can't make assumptions. Even then, it doesn't matter.

I don't let my politics be known to my neighbors and they don't ask. If they did ask, I'd probably demure unless we were closer friends. That said, judging by the lawn signs my immediate neighbors put up this past cycle, we'd probably all get along pretty well on that front (though they probably think that my lack of Biden lawn sign and constant flying of the Marine Corps flag means I lean a lot more to the right than I actually do).

I know politics has seem to become our national pastime over the last decade and as somebody who works for electeds and has degrees in political science and public policy, you'd think I'd always be up for a political conversation but I'd rather just leave all that at the office.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
re: this post by @michaelskis:




Do you let your politics influence how well you get along with your neighbors? I live in a very blue community. One of my next door neighbor is fairly conservative. We never talk about politics, but he has a few conservative bumper stickers up in his garage. Nonetheless, we're friendly, and we even share some responsibilities for our shared drive. (It's technically my property, but there's an easement for access to both of my neighbors. He clears snow; I maintain the pea gravel surface.)

I'm not outward about my left-leaning-but-not-woke ideology to my neighbors. There's a bunch of bumper stickers on one of my recycling bins; a few have environmental messages, but none of them are political. I fly the Stars and Stripes on national holidays, and try to maintain a turf lawn as best as I can with our clay soils. Around here, that might signal to others that we lean to the right. Anyhow, I've had nothing but positive exchanges with folks on my block -- except a grumpy, crunchy crone the next cluster over, whose animals all hate men for some reason.

As for gun-owning neighbors, that's none of my business. I know a lot of left-leaning people who own a gun or two, so I can't make assumptions. Even then, it doesn't matter.
I don't, but they do.

As I noted they are extremist and I am not their only target. There is a right wing person in the cul-de-sac that still has a Trump sign up on his yard but he normally keeps to himself, but he on a weekly basis one of the far left neighbors does a Facebook Live bashing this guy showing the Trump sign in the background.

We have tried multiple times to socialize with three of these families, but because we don't adhere to their political views, we are not worthy of their friendship. The extent of it is my kids playing with their kids, but even then one of them told my oldest that my wife and I must hate minorities because we didn't vote for Biden.

Other than the American Flag, we don't do campaign signs in our yard (because I don't believe they make a difference) but when someone asks, I don't hide my political views.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,932
Points
47
It used to be you didn't really talk about religion or politics unless it was someone you'd known well for a long time. Now I swear it's like one of the first things people want to know about you. I subscribe to some policies of the left and some from the right. Like many of us I'd imagine. I hate to be labeled. Here in South Carolina you don't choose a party when you register to vote. You just have to pick one party or another in a primary. The last several years I was in Maryland I was "unaffiliated" because like I said, I didn't care to be lumped into one particular group.

This is not an original thought but it rings true: If we'd concentrate more on the 90% of things we all agree on the whole world would be a lot better off.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,230
Points
59
Just a friendly reminder:

I'm pretty sure Neville Chamberlain is still on the wrong side of history.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
Today, President Biden will put forth several executive actions to curb gun violence.


In my reading of the information thus far, I question if these actions would have prevented any of the mass shootings that had occurred over the past few months, or years. What are your thoughts on these orders? Do you think that it is right for these to be executive orders vs actual bills from Congress? Do you think they too far or not far enough?

Frankly, I think that these are low hanging fruit and personally, I don't think they are going to have much of an impact. I am not in opposition to anything that was proposed, but I wonder if this is part of a larger intent.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
2,932
Points
47
It's an incredibly complicated issue (obviously) and I think the administration just wants to be able to say they've done SOMETHING. Not saying it will or won't have any impact but that they're paying some attention to it is what the takeaway is.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,313
Points
59
Today, President Biden will put forth several executive actions to curb gun violence.


In my reading of the information thus far, I question if these actions would have prevented any of the mass shootings that had occurred over the past few months, or years. What are your thoughts on these orders? Do you think that it is right for these to be executive orders vs actual bills from Congress? Do you think they too far or not far enough?

Frankly, I think that these are low hanging fruit and personally, I don't think they are going to have much of an impact. I am not in opposition to anything that was proposed, but I wonder if this is part of a larger intent.
No, they should be passing comprehensive gun legislation, but that isn't possible with one side of the aisle not willing to even talk about anything.

I dislike executive orders. I didn't like Trump executive orders and I don't like Biden executive orders. The legislative branch should do their job and find ways to get along and make laws. The system is clearly broken if we have to have our President's continually do what they want.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,039
Points
57
First steps I believe.

Some say the Assault Weapons Ban wasn't effective. It looks like there was a drop...

1617902869258.png

Source Mother Jones.


...can we reimplement/reauthorize that as another step?
 

gtpeach

Cyburbian
Messages
2,251
Points
25
The slow trickle of news about the Matt Gaetz scandal is by far the most interesting political story of the post-trump era so far.
I feel like a lot of my thoughts might be better left unsaid, but the more these types of abuses come out, the more sickened I become. I'm hoping for accountability of all, and that both parties can put ethics and integrity ahead of politics. When that can't happen in these especially extreme situations, our system is irreparably broken. It feels like we're desperately close to that being the case.
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
6,018
Points
36
This pathetic loser actually gave a news interview after he was IDed in Capitol event videos. The MLive link is cited in the charging documents.


He mentioned running for office. When this article appeared, someone helpfully provided a link to his campaign FB page.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,706
Points
56
...can we reimplement/reauthorize that as another step?
Maybe. What guns will be banned as part of that bill, and why are those guns selected? More so, since the assault weapons ban was lifted, how many deaths occurred due to those weapons compared to other weapons?
 
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