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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
I think other folks might be thinking quietly to themselves that you keep moving the goalpost. If I recall correctly, you started out by saying unprompted:

Which happens to be a Fox talking point as well. I'm not saying you bringing that up is a case of causality.... just that it's more than a coincidence.
When I heard the message from Dr. Saladino, it was expressed as coming from Biden. Unlike many extremists liberals and conservatives I know, I acknowledged that those comments didn't come from Biden. But are you denying that those comments were made by others? My objection is to the idea that we will go away from real meat or reduce meat production and availability in the US.

The real problem with meat production in the Untied States is the factory farm arrangement that we have. Free range cattle is not only healthier, it is also better for the environment. https://farmvsfactory.org/About a year ago we switched to one of those meat subscriptions that provides only grass fed and finished beef. Yes, it is a little more expensive than the store brand ground beef or steaks, but it is healthier and tastes better.

To shift gears:

What are your thoughts on the Presidents speech last night? I think there were some things that were a bit far fetched, but the jobs plan sounds promising. I think it is better to put people to work than give them a handout. I also agree with him regarding the inquinate infrastructure system. We see it all the time with some of our state maintained roads.

On the other hand, I think it is a load of crap that Unions built the middle class, but I do think that there needs to be renewed interest in the trades. Programs like Mike Rowe Works is a small but significant step in the right direction. Biden pushed the possibility of free community college, but I think he should also make trade schools free and subsidize apprentices for trades.

He talked about gun reform, but he didn't address the other side of the coin of improving mental health services.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,175
Points
57
'There are people saying' Kamala Harris is going to assassinate Biden, declare Sharia Law, and Obama will seize power with Antifa.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
So back to Biden's speech last night. I am guessing you all thought that it was one of the of the following:

You feel that Biden is ridiculous and that that he has no idea as to what he is doing, so it was not worth watching.

Or

You are so in love with the liberal party that you didn't bother watching it because if it came from someone with a D behind their name, it is perfect gospel.

Or

You hate Biden so much and unless the person speaking has an R behind their name, it is not worth listening to.
 

Bubba

Cyburbian
Messages
5,831
Points
46
So back to Biden's speech last night. I am guessing you all thought that it was one of the of the following:

You feel that Biden is ridiculous and that that he has no idea as to what he is doing, so it was not worth watching.

Or

You are so in love with the liberal party that you didn't bother watching it because if it came from someone with a D behind their name, it is perfect gospel.

Or

You hate Biden so much and unless the person speaking has an R behind their name, it is not worth listening to.
Or

I paid as much attention to it as I have pretty much every other Presidential address over the past three decades.
 
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Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,820
Points
47
Biden's speech sounded to me like a pretty definitive repudiation of Reaganism's hatred of all government.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,175
Points
57
There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware
I think it's time we stop
Children, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's going down?
There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind
It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's going down?
What a field day for the heat (Ooh ooh ooh)
A thousand people in the street (Ooh ooh ooh)
Singing songs and they carrying signs (Ooh ooh ooh)
Mostly say, "Hooray for our side" (Ooh ooh ooh)
It's time we stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's going down?
Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
Step out of line, the men come and take you away
We better stop
Hey, what's that sound?
Everybody look, what's going down?





Man this song is as relevant as it was when it first came out!
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,175
Points
57

Former GOP State Lawmaker At Capitol On Jan. 6 Is Photographed Auditing Arizona Votes Ex-state Rep. Anthony Kern, who has touted the “Stop the Steal” lie, is also on the ballots he was seen reviewing.


This seems about right, kosher, justified, correct, ligit - bullish!t
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,607
Points
70
2097027.gif
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
So Trump is calling for Liz Cheney to be removed from a leadership role in the GOP and it sounds like they are following his lead. However I am curious if you think that Trump stands a chance against Biden a few years. Do you think he could actually make a comeback?
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,382
Points
59
If the GOP let's Trump lead their party any longer, it is on them when they lose again. I certainly wouldn't say that they have learned anything from Trump. Instead of ideas and policy, they are leaning on Trump somehow getting the vote out in 2022. I'm not sure he can get past himself to truly help others. There is a power trip in there where he wants something from it...

I think 2022 is going to look good for republicans only because it is a mid-term and the D's are pushing pretty hard at topics that lots of R's don't support.

With that said, the R's I know are pretty split with the party right now. Liz Chaney is being kicked out of leadership because she said Trump helped create an insurrection. It isn't like she is lying about vote counts or a stolen election. I mean what can a rational republican think?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,175
Points
57
^^^Also I think he wants to get one of his cult members in office and then he can tell them what to do. He'd rather the power than the office.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
Yesterday I watched a documentary on Jordan B. Peterson. I recognized the name because of references that others made in the context of the Carnivore Diet, but until yesterday I knew nothing about it.

After watching the documentary, I decided that I am going to read his first book to see what it is all about, however I find it interesting how polarizing of a figure he was, and I question if that was his intention or if it gravitated towards him. The documentary also showed the level of protests at his speaking engagements, to the point where they were hijacked in some cases, and I wonder if something similar happens at presentations from those with the opposite views.

What are your thoughts on Peterson and this beliefs?
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,607
Points
70
The Headlines about the Arizona are beyond ______.

Republican says 'embarrassing' Arizona recount 'makes us look like idiots'​


Sheriff Goes Ballistic After Arizona Recounters Demand Access To County Passwords​

Giving computer network router and password information to a firm run by a conspiracy theorist is “mind-numbingly reckless,” the Maricopa County sheriff said.

QAnon hatches plan to steal Arizona for Trump by replacing every 'usurper' elected since 2018​

 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,382
Points
59
Yesterday I watched a documentary on Jordan B. Peterson. I recognized the name because of references that others made in the context of the Carnivore Diet, but until yesterday I knew nothing about it.

After watching the documentary, I decided that I am going to read his first book to see what it is all about, however I find it interesting how polarizing of a figure he was, and I question if that was his intention or if it gravitated towards him. The documentary also showed the level of protests at his speaking engagements, to the point where they were hijacked in some cases, and I wonder if something similar happens at presentations from those with the opposite views.

What are your thoughts on Peterson and this beliefs?
If he was actually scholarly anymore, he wouldn't be trying to write NY Times best sellers. He is just like many others before him. He is selling masculinity basically. It isn't really that creative, nor is he really that interesting.

I make an effort to not follow, read, or give any interest to these types of wind-bags who really just want attention and say things to get it -- see Ben Shapiro.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
If he was actually scholarly anymore, he wouldn't be trying to write NY Times best sellers. He is just like many others before him. He is selling masculinity basically. It isn't really that creative, nor is he really that interesting.

I make an effort to not follow, read, or give any interest to these types of wind-bags who really just want attention and say things to get it -- see Ben Shapiro.

I am curious about three of your statements. (none of it relates to Peterson ironically)

First of all, what's wrong with being a NYT best seller? I look at the list of best sellers and they come from both sides of the political spectrum and range from academics, to politicians, to movie stars. Are you indicating that there is not value in their work once they achieve that designation?

Second, you seem to have something against masculinity. Can you expand on that and your thoughts behind the idea of it? After all, I think we are all trying to 'sell' something, but some are better at monetizing it than others. Is it that he is trying to sell something or is it the masculinity that you have concerns with? Have you ready any other articles or books on the topic? (Point Man is a great one to start with if you haven't)

Third, you indicate that you avoid books and content such as this and I would like to know more about why. Is it just because you know you won't agree with it and you feel that there is nothing to learn from it? I don't agree with a lot of the political ideas of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, or Barrack Obama... but I read books written by each of them and I learned something from each of them.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,382
Points
59
I am curious about three of your statements. (none of it relates to Peterson ironically)

First of all, what's wrong with being a NYT best seller? I look at the list of best sellers and they come from both sides of the political spectrum and range from academics, to politicians, to movie stars. Are you indicating that there is not value in their work once they achieve that designation?

Second, you seem to have something against masculinity. Can you expand on that and your thoughts behind the idea of it? After all, I think we are all trying to 'sell' something, but some are better at monetizing it than others. Is it that he is trying to sell something or is it the masculinity that you have concerns with? Have you ready any other articles or books on the topic? (Point Man is a great one to start with if you haven't)

Third, you indicate that you avoid books and content such as this and I would like to know more about why. Is it just because you know you won't agree with it and you feel that there is nothing to learn from it? I don't agree with a lot of the political ideas of Bill Clinton, Al Gore, or Barrack Obama... but I read books written by each of them and I learned something from each of them.
1. There is a formula to becoming a NYT best seller. You A. Have something amazing and interesting to write and people love it. See Hillbilly Elegy, etc. B. You have written LOTS of books that people love, and even though this book sucks, you are still on the list. See John Grisham. Or C. You write something specifically for a group of people that you know will eat it up and read it. See Self-Help Books.

2. I have nothing negative about masculinity in general, but the desire some men have to beat their chest and WISH things used to be like they were when "men were men" is stupid. Not just stupid. Ignorant. The people who sell books talking about how a man can be a man, are really backhandedly saying a lot more. I don't read self-help books, as I don't need self-help thankfully, but I appreciate it. I do like cookbooks though, which I am glad to learn are also considered self-help by the NYT.

3. Yes, I avoid wasting my brain space with information that isn't factual, or is being contorted to make a point that isn't necessary. Reading a book by Clinton or Obama is very different from reading a book by say Rush Limbaugh. I read a lot of autobiographies. I, as I assume most do, choose which ones I read based on my interest in the person, not what I hope to learn from them. I certainly have no interest following the pathway of Obama, or hope to learn something from him. I just thought the book may be interesting because he had an interesting life.

I guess generally I don't look for others to teach me things. I utilize people in my life who have been mentors and trusted friends to help shape my world view and priorities. I don't care what some self-help book writing person says I should be doing, because if they really believed it, they wouldn't need to sell a book to do it. They would give it away. Self-help only goes as far as Dave Ramsey will allow it (ps. please pay $600 for a class to teach you that $600 on self-help classes is a poor use of your money).

My point was that he is a blowhard at this point. He isn't writing scientific papers to journals for merit or peer review. He is writing NYT books for profit. THAT is a different book than one that is actually providing value to the greater good.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,175
Points
57
This is a quote from McCarthy's letter to cancel Liz Cheney:

“We are a big tent party. We represent Americans of all backgrounds and continue to grow our movement by the day. And unlike the left, we embrace free thought and debate.”

So let me get this straight - the republicans embrace "free thought and debate" but if you have an independent thought that they don't agree with, they'll boot you out. Got it!
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
I guess generally I don't look for others to teach me things. I utilize people in my life who have been mentors and trusted friends to help shape my world view and priorities. I don't care what some self-help book writing person says I should be doing, because if they really believed it, they wouldn't need to sell a book to do it. They would give it away. Self-help only goes as far as Dave Ramsey will allow it (ps. please pay $600 for a class to teach you that $600 on self-help classes is a poor use of your money).

My point was that he is a blowhard at this point. He isn't writing scientific papers to journals for merit or peer review. He is writing NYT books for profit. THAT is a different book than one that is actually providing value to the greater good.

You seem to know quite a bit about what he has to say without actually reading anything he has written. I am also guessing that you didn't mean to make the "I guess generally I don't loot for others to teach me things..." phrase that way because I am sure that you do to have achieved in your life what you have.

Personally, I to reach out to seek information and understand the ideas, thoughts, and beliefs that are different than my own and don't isolate myself with people to act, think, look, or behave the exact same way I do. In the end I know I will either learn that I don't agree with what they have to say, or I will learn something that will change the way I think about something. But in the end, I am always learning something.

As for profit, that is the great thing about my local library. I can download kindle and audio books for free.
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,382
Points
59
You seem to know quite a bit about what he has to say without actually reading anything he has written. I am also guessing that you didn't mean to make the "I guess generally I don't loot for others to teach me things..." phrase that way because I am sure that you do to have achieved in your life what you have.

Personally, I to reach out to seek information and understand the ideas, thoughts, and beliefs that are different than my own and don't isolate myself with people to act, think, look, or behave the exact same way I do. In the end I know I will either learn that I don't agree with what they have to say, or I will learn something that will change the way I think about something. But in the end, I am always learning something.

As for profit, that is the great thing about my local library. I can download kindle and audio books for free.
I know little to nothing, other than what I googled searched for him after you asked. He fits a mold. Maybe that was a quick judgment on my part, but the three articles I read were singing the same tune.

I meant that I generally don't look for others to teach me things. That isn't how I became successful, or became the person I am today. I did it. Sure, there were other people who in my life have changed my perspectives, and there are many mentors that I have been fortunate to utilize in my career and life. I also surround myself with people who are different from me (sometime by choice, and sometimes not). None of that requires me to buy books by people to teach me things about myself that I didn't know I needed.

To each their own. What works for one person, doesn't work for others. We all are on a weird learning curve in life, where we are growing, learning, and hopefully changing. In general I am pretty ambivalent to that kind of stuff. I don't care if someone wants to become a self-help guru and make millions off the backs of people who can't help themselves... this is America for ++pick your denominational leader's++ sake. I just also want to be clear that many (most) of those people are snake-oil salesmen. And it is sad that we promote such silliness.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
I know little to nothing, other than what I googled searched for him after you asked. He fits a mold. Maybe that was a quick judgment on my part, but the three articles I read were singing the same tune.

I meant that I generally don't look for others to teach me things. That isn't how I became successful, or became the person I am today. I did it. Sure, there were other people who in my life have changed my perspectives, and there are many mentors that I have been fortunate to utilize in my career and life. I also surround myself with people who are different from me (sometime by choice, and sometimes not). None of that requires me to buy books by people to teach me things about myself that I didn't know I needed.

To each their own. What works for one person, doesn't work for others. We all are on a weird learning curve in life, where we are growing, learning, and hopefully changing. In general I am pretty ambivalent to that kind of stuff. I don't care if someone wants to become a self-help guru and make millions off the backs of people who can't help themselves... this is America for ++pick your denominational leader's++ sake. I just also want to be clear that many (most) of those people are snake-oil salesmen. And it is sad that we promote such silliness.
I am not disagreeing with what you said, but to get clarification, it sounds like you formed your opinion on him based on the opinions of others instead of work and information directly from him?

You are correct that there are a lot of charlatans out there that with the intent to just get your money. Some say Dave Ramsey is one, personally disagree. I haven't from my judgement on Peterson as I only got a chapter into his book 12 Rules so far. For quite a bit of my life, I had a predetermined bias against particular groups based on their political, social, or cultural beliefs and over time. I found resources (yes, self help books) that taught me that maybe I should pass judgement without actually checking it it out first. Since then I have realized that many of my past perceptions of some of those political, social, or cultural beliefs were wrong. In some cases, they were exactly what I thought they where. But until I tested those beliefs, they were only assumptions.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
Several news agencies are reporting that Colonial Pipeline paid the hackers almost $5 Million in untraceable cryptocurrency.

My question is do you believe this well embolden hackers to make attacks on other infrastructure agencies? Additionally, will this paint a target on Colonial Pipeline for other hackers to do the same thing, knowing that they paid once, they might do it again?
 

DVD

Cyburbian
Messages
15,501
Points
53
Damn Arizona is going crazy asking the county for routers and router passwords and some mysterious deleted file in the voting machines. I'm sure it was a test file or something stupid and common like that. Just stop already. The other states are laughing at us.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,422
Points
60
Damn Arizona is going crazy asking the county for routers and router passwords and some mysterious deleted file in the voting machines. I'm sure it was a test file or something stupid and common like that. Just stop already. The other states are laughing at us.
-_MteJQZ_400x400.jpeg
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,607
Points
70
Cancun Cruz blamed Biden for the Chik-fil-A sauce shortage.

It that all you got Ted? Sad.

Ted Cruz blames Chick-fil-A sauce shortage on Biden — and Twitter can't tell whether he's kidding​


This is so laughable. :rofl::insane:
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
Liz Cheney has been replaced by Elise Stefanik in the GOP leadership. How do you feel about this situation. Do you think that Liz Cheney being forced out is because the party still bows to Trump, and if so, do you think this will result in lasting repercussions for future presidential elections?

As for Stefanik, I don't know much about her yet other than she supported the Trump conspiracy theories and that she voted with Trump 77.7% of the time, which is less than Liz Cheney.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
29,915
Points
73
Liz Cheney is positioning herself for the future in my opinion. To a time after the GOP is going to have a moment of clarity and realize 'WTF were we thinking?' Cheney will then be positioned as one of the few voices of reason during a time when the rest of the party was otherwise completely off the rails committed to a personality cult founded on lies, corruption, and conspiracy theories.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,814
Points
57
A bunch of people I know are angry about the NC Gov lifting the occupancy restrictions, social distancing requirements, and mask mandates for those who have been vaccinated.

Some are saying that he gave into the sports teams, others are saying he is a sell out, and most businesses are still requiring them.

Our City Hall is continuing to operate as if they are all still in effect.
 
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