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NEVERENDING ♾️ The NEVERENDING Political Discussion Thread

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
11,254
Points
52
I don't plan on going anywhere any time soon (I've been enjoying not doing things or going places over the past 15 months) but if I am inside somewhere, I'll probably continue to wear my mask for now. If my children are with me, both of whom are under 12, I'll definitely keep my mask on when we're indoors somewhere public. As long as they are ineligible for a vaccine and required to wear a mask I will keep mine on to model and reinforce that behavior.

Children may be less likely to contract serious cases of COVID but the risk is definitely not 0.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70

'QAnon Shaman' attorney refuses to apologize for 'short-bus people' comments​



“A lot of these defendants — and I’m going to use this colloquial term, perhaps disrespectfully — but they’re all f------ short-bus people. ... These are people with brain damage, they’re f------ retarded, they’re on the goddamn spectrum,”
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
How much involvement do you think that the US should have in regards to Iran, Israel, and the Middle East as whole?

On one hand, I am of the frame of mind that it's not our fight... but on the other hand if we don't step in, could it get out of hand and spill over into other things?
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70
251694.png
 

Veloise

Cyburbian
Messages
6,068
Points
37
Our state lege, in their NEVERENDING brilliance, has worked themselves into a lather over the gov visiting her ailing father in Florida back in March. (Previously, armed incels who "didn't like" the lockdown restrictions formed a plot to kidnap and murder her. They now face federal and state charges related to kidnapping, firearms, and more.)

The gov flew charter. A moment's reflection will indicate why this was a good choice, consider the Twitstorm: photos of her, identifiable clothing, exact location provided by fellow travelers in the Lansing airport, on the commercial aircraft, on the ground in Florida. Think that the Null brothers et al don't have copycats?

Here's their most recent commotion. Yes, we do have a lieutenant governor, whose duties are delineated in the state constitution. No, we don't have customs border guards at our three adjacent states.



(not my work, but it's great)
! whitmer shirkey kidnapper.jpg
 
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JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70
DeSantis signs bill to fine tech companies for banning politicians

Under the newly signed law, the Florida Election Commission can impose fines of
$250,000 per day on any social media company that deplatforms any candidate for statewide office and
$25,000 per day for deplatforming candidates for non-statewide offices.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
15,544
Points
60
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Messages
3,044
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26
[Slain] Capitol Police officer Sicknick’s mother meets with senators as Republicans are set to block Jan. 6 commission
The vote Thursday would be the first successful use of a filibuster this year to halt Senate legislative action

Gladys Sicknick, mother of the late Capitol Police officer Brian Sicknick, arrives at the office of Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin, who has been in the vanguard of a Republican pivot toward characterizing the deadly Jan. 6 riot as not particularly threatening nor very different from a typical Capitol tour.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
The White House is proposing a $6 Trillion budget. Materials costs for construction are at record highs. The cost of used vehicles is at record highs. Cost of food is skyrocketing. Housing costs are crazy. Interest rates have been held to zero way too long. The federal deficit continues to grow and there is all this short term money, but what happens when that money runs out?

At what point do you think that the economy will completely collapse? The past several presidents have done a ton of damage in the effort to "help" but it is just kicking the can down the street.

More so, what do you think that collapse will look like?
 

Super Amputee Cat

Cyburbian
Messages
2,507
Points
35
The White House is proposing a $6 Trillion budget. Materials costs for construction are at record highs. The cost of used vehicles is at record highs. Cost of food is skyrocketing. Housing costs are crazy. Interest rates have been held to zero way too long. The federal deficit continues to grow and there is all this short term money, but what happens when that money runs out?

At what point do you think that the economy will completely collapse? The past several presidents have done a ton of damage in the effort to "help" but it is just kicking the can down the street.

More so, what do you think that collapse will look like?
No matter what happens you can be assured that the 1%ers will keep all their ill-gotten gains and the rest of us will all pay dearly for it. The Super Rich ALWAYS find ways to make every one else pay, like they did in the 2008 housing crisis, the Covid-19 Pandemic, not to mention the dozens of hurricanes that we all pay for when their million dollar McMansions get flooded.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70
Texas Election Law to be voted on includes -

Another new provision could also make it easier to overturn an election in Texas, allowing for a judge to void an outcome if the number of fraudulent votes cast could change the result, regardless of whether it was proved that fraud affected the outcome.
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
30,162
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74
Trump’s ‘Delusional Fantasy’ Claim Of Being Reinstated As President
Is Being Roasted By Republicans, Too

We should be done talking about Trump now. We're four months into the Biden administration. Trump to me is interesting only insofar as he continues to damage the GOP. Part of me delights in the damage he's causing them but the more grim reality is that our democracy and country truly NEEDS a rational opposition party. That's simply not going to happen so long as His Orangeness continues to snag headlines and keep the party under his knuckle so they continue to parrot his lies.
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,267
Points
57
^^^That's all he ever wants is to be 'relevant' and 'in the news' remember he paid for 'news' to be published about him in the Daily Post...well that & lots of $$$.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70
Statement of Concern
The Threats to American Democracy and the Need for National Voting and Election Administration Standards

 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,267
Points
57
The Former Guy's new communication platform (really just a blog) turned out to be a bust - it lasted a month.

As noted in an article:
“From the Desk of Donald J. Trump” was preceded in death by Trump Airlines, Trump Shuttle, Trump beverages, Trump: The Game, numerous Trump casinos, Trump magazine, Trump Mortgage, Trump Steaks, a Trump travel website, Trump telecom, Trump University, and Trump Vodka.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
Depending on which news sources you follow, the recent release of Dr. Fauci's e-mails appear to either paint him has an overwhelmed member of the medical community, a liar, or perhaps both.

There appears to be increasing evidence to show that Fauci had information that COVID-19 might have come from a lab despite repeated denials on TV and the press. My question is if he had those suspicions or thoughts, why didn't he just say so? Or was it that he was ignoring what his researchers told him because he didn't want to accept that it was man made?
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,441
Points
59
Depending on which news sources you follow, the recent release of Dr. Fauci's e-mails appear to either paint him has an overwhelmed member of the medical community, a liar, or perhaps both.

There appears to be increasing evidence to show that Fauci had information that COVID-19 might have come from a lab despite repeated denials on TV and the press. My question is if he had those suspicions or thoughts, why didn't he just say so? Or was it that he was ignoring what his researchers told him because he didn't want to accept that it was man made?
He wasn't sure then, and isn't sure now. I love how the right-wing media likes to pretend like hindsight doesn't exist.

If we all remember 12 months ago, there were a lot of unknowns. He was pretty clear that he didn't want to go that direction at the time because there were so many negative impacts on the Asian community when he didn't see any clear indication of one reason over the other (i.e. he wasn't sure).

The fact that Biden is allowing more research into this is good. If it was a lab and not general mutation or transmission from an animal it is important to know.

With the incredible increase in Asian violence our country is seeing, I agree with Dr. Fauci that it probably wouldn't have helped anything for him to say it was the Chinese, especially when he wasn't sure about it.

If people wanted him to act like Trump and just say things because of some political points to be earned, they clearly aren't going to get the payoff they are wanting.
 

MD Planner

Cyburbian
Messages
3,124
Points
49
It cracks me up when people think that what we know (or think we know) today is what we will always know. More information allows us to either confirm or disprove things we thought we knew to be the truth. There's a reason it's called a NOVEL virus. It's because it's new and we don't know everything. So SMART people will continually evolve their thinking and understanding as more research is performed and data gathered.

Of course I'd imagine many of the anti-vaxxers also take a dim view on evolution and say things like "I didn't come from no ape". Which of course is absolutely true but since they clearly have no understanding of the theory to begin with there is no point in having that conversation.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
He wasn't sure then, and isn't sure now. I love how the right-wing media likes to pretend like hindsight doesn't exist.

If we all remember 12 months ago, there were a lot of unknowns. He was pretty clear that he didn't want to go that direction at the time because there were so many negative impacts on the Asian community when he didn't see any clear indication of one reason over the other (i.e. he wasn't sure).

The fact that Biden is allowing more research into this is good. If it was a lab and not general mutation or transmission from an animal it is important to know.

With the incredible increase in Asian violence our country is seeing, I agree with Dr. Fauci that it probably wouldn't have helped anything for him to say it was the Chinese, especially when he wasn't sure about it.

If people wanted him to act like Trump and just say things because of some political points to be earned, they clearly aren't going to get the payoff they are wanting.
12 Months ago, he was quite sure it was not from a lab. A man made virus is not the same as a virus from an animal. In the documents regarding Ralph Baric and Dr. Shi Zhengli seem to show that he lied to Congress in terms of SARS Gain of Function research.

In terms of the Asian hate, I don't think that lab vs market would have made a difference. Hate should not happen regardless of where the virus came from.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Moderator
Messages
15,544
Points
60
What does it really matter, at this point, whether it came from a lab or nature?

If from a Chinese lab, what are we rationally going to do about it as they are never going to admit culpability/blame and/or apologize?

Trade war? Not good.

Actual war? Not gonna happen...ever.

A vigorous finger wagging? Probably, but also purely symbolic.

I trust Fauci and I will admit it if I was duped by a long term con from him, but I don't see it objectively occurring.

I think people are simply trying to attack him because he has been a solid and communicative persona during all this.
 
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Hink

OH....IO
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Moderator
Messages
16,441
Points
59
12 Months ago, he was quite sure it was not from a lab. A man made virus is not the same as a virus from an animal. In the documents regarding Ralph Baric and Dr. Shi Zhengli seem to show that he lied to Congress in terms of SARS Gain of Function research.

In terms of the Asian hate, I don't think that lab vs market would have made a difference. Hate should not happen regardless of where the virus came from.
Just so we are on the same page, I assume the sentence "he lied to Congress in terms of SARS Gain of Function research" is in relation to the Rand Paul back and forth.
  1. If Rand Paul is involved, you should serious look at whether it makes any sense at all, but let's ignore that for now.
  2. Fauci, along with almost all credible scientists in the world, including the WHO, etc. all said that they thought that it was “zoonotically” from animals and that it coming from a lab was extremely unlikely. Please note he didn't say impossible.
  3. Rand Paul assumed that if something happened in China, the US should be at fault, because we work with the Chinese on virology - including research by Baric and Zhengli.
  4. "Gain of Function" if you are knowledgeable on these topics, which I assume you are, since you are using the terms, is dependent on what you think the NIH funding is covering. It was covering the potential for a coronavirus to cross species, not to actually be used to create a virus. There is a VERY clear difference. Rand Paul knows this, and anyone that allows scientists or others who are actually in this field to inform their thoughts do too.
  5. This was primarily going on under Trump. It certainly doesn't make it anymore right or wrong, but it is important to know. Trump did stop funding it in 2020, so I guess we could say he "fixed" the issue?
  6. No funding went into trying to create any additional avenues for a virus to infect human populations, only to see what happened when they inserted spike proteins into them to understand their ability to infect human cells. There is a difference.
I am sure you are watching a replay of some comments he made 12 months ago and using that against him. Sure go for it. But in the end, he has stated recently, that he wasn't confident (and still is not confident) of anything. It is good to continue to look into what happened, because at this point, no one can pinpoint what caused it. The only reason that the GoF discussion is even occuring is because they have not been able to pinpoint the exact bat or other animal that crossed the virus into humans.

The NIH statement about this is pretty interesting.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
What does it really matter, at this point, whether it came from a lab or nature?

If from a Chinese lab, what are we rationally going to do about it as they are never going to admit culpability/blame and/or apologize?

Yes. it matters because there is detailed documentation about how it was created, and that can be used to make sure that future vaccines and booster shots are established to eradicate it without causing long lasting side effects.

Just so we are on the same page, I assume the sentence "he lied to Congress in terms of SARS Gain of Function research" is in relation to the Rand Paul back and forth.
  1. If Rand Paul is involved, you should serious look at whether it makes any sense at all, but let's ignore that for now.
  2. Fauci, along with almost all credible scientists in the world, including the WHO, etc. all said that they thought that it was “zoonotically” from animals and that it coming from a lab was extremely unlikely. Please note he didn't say impossible.
  3. Rand Paul assumed that if something happened in China, the US should be at fault, because we work with the Chinese on virology - including research by Baric and Zhengli.
  4. "Gain of Function" if you are knowledgeable on these topics, which I assume you are, since you are using the terms, is dependent on what you think the NIH funding is covering. It was covering the potential for a coronavirus to cross species, not to actually be used to create a virus. There is a VERY clear difference. Rand Paul knows this, and anyone that allows scientists or others who are actually in this field to inform their thoughts do too.
  5. This was primarily going on under Trump. It certainly doesn't make it anymore right or wrong, but it is important to know. Trump did stop funding it in 2020, so I guess we could say he "fixed" the issue?
  6. No funding went into trying to create any additional avenues for a virus to infect human populations, only to see what happened when they inserted spike proteins into them to understand their ability to infect human cells. There is a difference.
I am sure you are watching a replay of some comments he made 12 months ago and using that against him. Sure go for it. But in the end, he has stated recently, that he wasn't confident (and still is not confident) of anything. It is good to continue to look into what happened, because at this point, no one can pinpoint what caused it. The only reason that the GoF discussion is even occuring is because they have not been able to pinpoint the exact bat or other animal that crossed the virus into humans.

The NIH statement about this is pretty interesting.

I could care less about Rand Paul's comments. The question is did he knowingly lie to congress?
 

Hink

OH....IO
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
16,441
Points
59
Yes. it matters because there is detailed documentation about how it was created, and that can be used to make sure that future vaccines and booster shots are established to eradicate it without causing long lasting side effects.



I could care less about Rand Paul's comments. The question is did he knowingly lie to congress?
If it is that cut and dried, I certainly would imagine further discussions need no nuance.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
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Moderator
Messages
15,544
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60
Yes. it matters because there is detailed documentation about how it was created, and that can be used to make sure that future vaccines and booster shots are established to eradicate it without causing long lasting side effects.
I disagree.

We have multiple vaccines already and are further deepening the understanding of it's affect on the entire human species...right now...in real time.

I'm not a subject matter expert, but I'm not yet convinced knowing the origin is materially important at this point, except for political points.

I'm confident Fauci has not lied to Congress.
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
If it is that cut and dried, I certainly would imagine further discussions need no nuance.

I also wonder if Trump pushed him to lie... There is no question that there were several times where Trump silenced him. Given how Trump ran things, I would not be surprised if he also forced them to say things that they knew were not true.

Personally, I think it is a good thing that Biden is having the source investigated more.
 

JNA

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
26,678
Points
70

Hink

OH....IO
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59
Ignoring his potentially backwards pants (which I doubt, they just seem very wrinkled), I was still amazed that the RNC through Trump, still has no policy agenda. I think that the RNC assumes that they can just win the mid-term because Trump is still well liked.

I think this will again be a very interesting case study, as most mid-term elections are won by the opposite party because they put a line in the sand and state clearly what they will do differently than the current administration. That is not going to happen in 2022. The Republicans don't have a clue what they stand for right now, other than that the elections were stolen, less people should vote (excuse me, I meant that we should have STRONGER protections so our elections aren't stolen), and maybe that they don't like Biden's definition of infrastructure.

I don't see anywhere an agenda of small government, fiscal responsibility, or of any policy positions that are actionable. I guess that Republican state legislators are taking advantage of their wins and we are seeing more local laws about republican concepts (i.e. anti-abortion, tighter voting restrictions), but nationally, they are not very good at stating a clear policy agenda.

Let's see if Next Gingrich can try and become relevant again with another Contract with America. It will be hilarious to see the list of items though, as many would have to just be out of thin air, because they really have no policy wonks right now.
 

Suburb Repairman

moderator in moderation
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
7,452
Points
36
I'm baffled by the GOP's embrace of Trump. They had an opportunity to split--political parties have never stuck with their past President when he loses reelection. They could have done a hard reset with policy focus. They could have denounced authoritarianism. They didn't.

And I don't think the electorate is going to follow them off that cliff. And the GOP continues to have a demographic problem.

Voting rights was actually an opportunity: I actually think they can legitimately win votes with a practical conservative policy focus. And if they would've run towards the fire on voting rights, it would open doors to other demographics. I know a lot of us hate on George W. Bush, but he was skilled at this. It is how he won as Governor of TX and how he ultimately won the GOP nomination and Presidency.

I'm not happy about this. The U.S. needs at least two viable parties that believe in democracy. It isn't healthy.
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
319
Points
12
Is Trump Considering a Run for House Speaker?

Trump Suggests He May Run for House in 2022 to Become Speaker: 'Very Interesting'
Now that his official residence is Mar A Lago, which is D+10, where the current incumbent has won the last 2 by close to 20% and Biden won by 17%, I'd think it'd be an uphill battle for him.
 

WSU MUP Student

Cyburbian
Messages
11,254
Points
52
I don't see him actually running for a House seat, especially in that current district (or whatever districts exist in that corner of South Florida after redistricting). Given the demographics down there I don't see him having an easy time of winning, regardless of his name-recognition and I can't see him wanting to add another loss to his record.

However, there is no requirement that the Speaker of the House has to be an actual member of the House of Representatives. I could see some Trump sycophant nominating him for the Speakership if the Rs take back the house in 2022.
 

estromberg

Cyburbian
Messages
319
Points
12
I don't see him actually running for a House seat, especially in that current district (or whatever districts exist in that corner of South Florida after redistricting). Given the demographics down there I don't see him having an easy time of winning, regardless of his name-recognition and I can't see him wanting to add another loss to his record.

However, there is no requirement that the Speaker of the House has to be an actual member of the House of Representatives. I could see some Trump sycophant nominating him for the Speakership if the Rs take back the house in 2022.
Today I learned....
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
30,162
Points
74
So the mega-rich & corporations pay their fair share in taxes? Well no, because loopholes, credits and wealth is not income:

That is so depressing. Even some well-intentioned but foolhardy and ultimately unfair regressive tax scheme like everyone pays a flat 10% would be better than billionaires paying a measly 3.4%:yell:
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
14,267
Points
57
Lara tRump tells border residents to "arm up" and "defend" from immigrants.

Let's incite some violence y'all...
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
20,882
Points
57
Lara tRump tells border residents to "arm up" and "defend" from immigrants.

Let's incite some violence y'all...
I agree that is not the way to handle it and violence should only be an last resort for the protection of oneself and their loved ones. However, I would be interested in knowing if the Biden administration is actually going to do something about it. Thus far, they seem to be ignoring it in hopes that the media coverage will go away.
 
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