• Cyburbia is a friendly big tent, where we share our experiences and thoughts about urban planning practice, planning adjacent topics, and whatever else comes to mind. No ads, no spam, no echo chambers. Create your FREE Cyburbia ID, and join us today! You can also register through your Reddit, Facebook, Google, Twitter, or Microsoft account.

The NEVERENDING Raising Children Thread

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
I thought the other day when we were all talking about how we were dealing with our teenagers that possibly we needed to break off a thread.

Whether it is dealing with toddlers or teens, children can be wonderful as well as frustrating.

Parenting tips or just a place to vent.

I will start:
Let's talk about teens. AARRGGHHH!

I understand how to deal with them when they are screaming and angry but I have no clue what do with apathy.

My example:
15 yr old got an invitation to go to the theatre out of town. Ticket cost $75.00
She managed to manipulate money from mom for the ticket.
She knew about this for months...
Two weeks ago she came and asked for $100 for shopping and food. The discussion began about how was she going to earn the money. She just did not know what to do. We gave her a few suggestions.

Two days before, I explained to her that I did not have any jobs that I wished to pay her for to earn the money.

Yet she still does not put out ANY effort to even give me the impression that she even wants to go. She does not put out any extra effort to do anything.

Last night, her father and I once again try to light a fire under her to get her to do something.
Finally I vetoed the request and went on about the work that needed to be done.

Her father finally decided to go get the money for her to go. When I asked him what logical reason he had for doing that. All he could say was that she was going to lose the ticket money if he didn't let her go.

So I am mad.

She has managed to get $175.00 to go play and did not have to do anything to earn it. It was just handed to her. My husband says it is a loan that she has to pay back. So now starts the nagging and belly aching at her to go do something to earn it. He did not understand the concept of earning the money before she gets to go.

Just venting!!!:-@
 

Maister

Chairman of the bored
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
27,241
Points
62
ISo I am mad.

She has managed to get $175.00 to go play and did not have to do anything to earn it. It was just handed to her. My husband says it is a loan that she has to pay back. So now starts the nagging and belly aching at her to go do something to earn it. He did not understand the concept of earning the money before she gets to go.
I'm discovering that one of the most annoying and troublesome aspects of raising children has nothing to do with the children themselves per se, but one's partner. They always say the three most common sources for conflict in marriage/domestic life are: money, sex and raising children. The more two parents' personal/philisophical views differ on the topic of raising children the greater the potential for conflict. It seems obvious when you hear folks say "'well in that case just make sure you're both on the same page before you go ahead and have kids (duh)". Yeah, well, easier said than done. Most people just don't plan things that thoroughly ahead of time. Since we chose the adoption route to becoming parents, my wife and I had more opportunity than most to explore and discuss our philosophies on parenting beforehand, but even so we still run into disagreements and misunderstandings all the time. It just isn't possible to anticipate every contingency or situation that could arise. And when confronted with a new situation that neither discussed beforehand, the most natural thing to do is to revert to one's preprogrammed responses (which seem fated to always be different from one's partners!)
 
Messages
1,264
Points
22
Baby Star hasn't gotten here yet. I do plan to give him an allowance so that he can learn money management and responsibility. However, his allowance will be based on let's say $20 / week. He will have chores to do. If those chores aren't met then his allowance will be deducted accordingly. Hopefully, when he finds out that his $5 worth of work won't cover his $15 movie ticket and a GI Joe with the Kung Fu grip that he'll get the picture.
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,507
Points
40
no, you certainly cannot plan how you will raise your children before you have them and to people in here about to be married or have kids, yes, you should discuss it (it's good to know if the other one wants to spank, wants private schools, general big issue kind of things) but know that you will change and be prepared to change and be prepared for the other person to change once baby #1 arrives - the key is to stick together in front of the kids even if you don't agree - disagree in private on discipline and granting of freedoms/privileges/allowances to the kids

believe me, I have eaten lots of humble pie due to all the times I have said to myself "Oh, I'll never do that with my kid" , etc etc. and when I got to that stage, did the same exact thing I said I would not do, you just don't know until it happens :-$

my husband is more strict than I am so he is quick to say no - but if we discuss it together first, we usually agree on the answer - and if he said no already, I don't turn that into a yes because that's not right and it sends a bad message to the kids

our kids definitely know how we operate as a couple and try to manipulate us constantly (which is normal, kids are not stupid) so it's important that we do stick together

and Queen B - I make my 14 yo earn the money she needs for special things she wants to do before she goes - or at least we have a plan - like I just got her a sleeping bag she really wanted for her trip this weekend and she knows she needs to babysit 6 hours for me to pay for it - so there are promissory notes drawn up when there are things that come up un-expectantly
 

ofos

Vintage Cyburbian
Messages
8,278
Points
27
She managed to manipulate money from mom for the ticket.
Is this a daughter or step-daughter? If she's your natural (and I use the term loosely knowing that she IS a teenager) and you caved first, don't blame dad when he caves too.

If she's a step-daughter and mom isn't you, there's another whole set of dynamics for manipulation of mom, dad, & step-mom that's probably way beyond this forum.

Either way, dad might just as well admit it's all his fault and move on to the next crisis.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,703
Points
42
The one area (so far) that my wife and I differ significantly in attitude is regarding schooling (particularly college). I really disliked school (esp. high school and college, although I did fine throughout and even got my Master's) and have the attitude that if you are going to college you need to have a reason to be there, not just because it is what you're supposed to do.

So, my opinion can be misinterpreted as "school is lame, fight the man", which is really not my intent. My wife is more staunchly "go to college...period".

So we have had many a discussion regarding this topic and came to the conclusion that the child certainly needs a purpose for being in college, and that I should refrain from really delineating my position until they can handle the nuance of the opinion.
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
My wife and I try to provide a united front in child-rearing efforts, but are not always successful. The biggest disagreement is education. My wife wants our son to go to a parochial school. I went to Catholic schools for six years and am very much opposed to my son attending parochial school. One reason is the additional cost. Primarily I do not see an advantage to an education that often is used to insulate the student from "those people" and "those ideas" different than the parents'. My son will be exposed to "those people" and "those ideas" in his life and it is better he does it at an early age. Education should be broadening.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
I did half of elementary in a parochial school and half in public school with the remainder in public schools. The only thing I remember about parochial school was the ugly uniforms and Sister Mary with the ruler she used to whack us with. Always remember that the parent is the most important educator in a child's life and that not all academic learning takes place within the walls of the school.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
More on teenagers:

If you don't think you can trust one of your kid's friends, terminate the relationship. They will invariably do something way worse than you can imagine, usually involving your kid and the local law enforcement. Don't worry about offending their parents.

Don't pull your kid out of a school he loves and where he thrives, just to save tuition.

Long road trips can be a good time to listen to your kid and find out what they're thinking.

RJ and I are going to have some bumps dealing with my son; he's got an attitude and bombing in school. At least he's looking forward to moving to the panhandle.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
More on teenagers:

If you don't think you can trust one of your kid's friends, terminate the relationship. They will invariably do something way worse than you can imagine, usually involving your kid and the local law enforcement. Don't worry about offending their parents.

Don't pull your kid out of a school he loves and where he thrives, just to save tuition.

Long road trips can be a good time to listen to your kid and find out what they're thinking.

RJ and I are going to have some bumps dealing with my son; he's got an attitude and bombing in school. At least he's looking forward to moving to the panhandle.
I've been lucky with the friend part...most of her friend's parents are stricter than I am so it helps.

I agree about not moving a thriving child out of a school they love unless it's unavoidable.

ZG-perhaps a change of venue and having RJ around might improve his attitude. I'd have an advance meeting with the school he will attend to address any issues before they multiply.
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
Messages
18,278
Points
43
Timely thread, QB.

The good news: My youngest graduates from high school next month.
The bad news: It's from the alternate HS. He's been enrolled there since September. Did his dad know this minor detail? HELL, NO!!!

I'm disappointed, irritated, frustrated on so many levels.

I rewarded his big brother generously three years ago when he graduated. But I'm not so sure about the youngest.


Thoughts? Recommendations?
 

ofos

Vintage Cyburbian
Messages
8,278
Points
27
Timely thread, QB.

I rewarded his big brother generously three years ago when he graduated. But I'm not so sure about the youngest.


Thoughts? Recommendations?
Reward him too. He's not his big brother and he knows it without having it reinforced. Don't expect immediate gratitude but the payback will come some day down the road. My boys have turned into pretty decent adults and yours will too.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
Timely thread, QB.

The good news: My youngest graduates from high school next month.
The bad news: It's from the alternate HS. He's been enrolled there since September. Did his dad know this minor detail? HELL, NO!!!

I'm disappointed, irritated, frustrated on so many levels.

I rewarded his big brother generously three years ago when he graduated. But I'm not so sure about the youngest.


Thoughts? Recommendations?
By all means celebrate the graduation....he could have dropped out altogether you know. Perhaps tie the reward to having a post high school plan in place?
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
Messages
18,278
Points
43
Timely thread, QB.

The good news: My youngest graduates from high school next month.
The bad news: It's from the alternate HS. He's been enrolled there since September. Did his dad know this minor detail? HELL, NO!!!

I'm disappointed, irritated, frustrated on so many levels.

I rewarded his big brother generously three years ago when he graduated. But I'm not so sure about the youngest.


Thoughts? Recommendations?

EDIT: It goes without saying, I love the kid unconditionally. I'm the asshole to be "afraid of..." WTFs that all about? It's a long story.

Thanks for your recommendations. Ya'll are right. Just wish the little fart would call me.

Mods: can ya'll merge this? My head is blown tonight. Thanks.
 

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
RJ,
As long as he gets it, that is what counts. But yeah he should have told you.
Hang In there!:-D
 

cch

Cyburbian
Messages
1,436
Points
20
I'm lucky, my husband and I are usually on the same page when it comes to raising our daughter. We did disagree for awhile on whether to pay for college for her (my parents paid for mine, but his didn't). We've compromised, and we'll pay with restrictions/conditions. But, that is so far in the future. Right now the main thing is potty training, and he can't see the signs that she's about to go, like I can. If I'm busy he'll never offer to help her get to the potty or anything. Then of course he always wants me to change her diapers. He pretends like he can't smell poop :(.
 

Jaxspra

Cyburbian
Messages
3,517
Points
24
My EX was in town the past two weeks and let me tell you I am SO happy I don't have to deal with him on a daily basis (he has moved out of state). That MF'er does not pay child support (EVER, not one penny); I let him stay at my house when he is in town, and has the ba!!s to talk to me about how to raise the boys? He pops in once every 6 weeks (maybe); plays a gig during that time and acts like Daddy of the Year?
He signed away legal and physical custody during the divorce but still feels the need to let me know what he thinks I am doing wrong. But then he leaves, all goes back to normal and all the child raising is done by me with no one to answer to except my boys :) (oh, and my mom ;)
I am lucky thus far, however they are still little and young enough to be somewhat afraid of me :) My oldest will more than likely be a handful in his teen years but the three of us try to work as a team, know we are all "in this together" and work together well.
Speaking of little ones, my oldest broke his leg this past weekend. Broke his knee cap and tibia, full cast from thigh to foot....great makings for the first week of summer!!!! 6-8 weeks in the hot itchy thing...poor baby!!
Needless to say, the ex of course took off just in time for me to depleat all of my sick leave, let my work pile high on top of my desk, so he could go back to Ann Arbor (no, he did not have a job to go back to, just his 19 year old girlfriend :-@)
Thanks for letting me vent this afternoon :-$ :)
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
25
oooh sorry to hear about the leg break, what a bummer at the beginning of summer!

My oldest will be in 6th grade in the fall, and it blows my mind!!! NOOooooooooo. :-c

I hope my cheerful, motivated, creative, kind and friendly daughter does not turn into a moping, surly cruel chola wannabe:-c

And tell me, if I have let the kids slide on chores until this point is there any hope they can start to lift a finger any time soon?

I never grounded my kids, am I an oddball? I hear 'rents say this all the time. "Your grounded for a week and with no playstation!" Do they follow thru? doubt it. That is why I dont ground, I would never follow thru! I have to say I would give in once they start bugging me, get out of here and go outside. But I can hold my ground against TV watching and screen time.
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,853
Points
39
And tell me, if I have let the kids slide on chores until this point is there any hope they can start to lift a finger any time soon?

I never grounded my kids, am I an oddball? I hear 'rents say this all the time. "Your grounded for a week and with no playstation!" Do they follow thru? doubt it. That is why I dont ground, I would never follow thru! I have to say I would give in once they start bugging me, get out of here and go outside. But I can hold my ground against TV watching and screen time.
They can always start to do chores. Some of them, like my kid, will complain and put them off as long as possible, even if it's something they've been doing for years. So if yours complains, no big deal. I play to his ego: But son, you're sooo much stronger than me, I can't possibly lift this!

Yeah, I'm bad about letting things slide on groundings. Except when it involves another kid. I've had to ground my kid from hanging out with the miscreant next door, for up to 30 days, and stuck to my guns. Since X-mas, he has been permanently not allowed around him.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
Mine is pretty good about doing chores but will procrastinate if she really doesn't want to do something but I just say "if you don't do X right now, you will not get to do Y" which is generally good enough.

As far as grounding....I don't think I've ever had to really ground her as punishment, usually it's like ZG where I "ground" her from other kids.
 

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
So after two rounds of flooding in the basement, the children still have not gotten the hint to pick their things up. The eldest is out of town this weekend with a friend and I peak into her room and I can not see the floor. I pick up all her thing and bag them in trash bags. Set the bags on her bed. When she came home I made her go through all the bags and sort them and then put it all away, a process that did not take a whole hour.

They just did not manage to do anything with themselves last week...

SSSOOO dad cut the cable phone and computer this morning:-c.

And I woke them up at 7:15. No sence in burning daylight while there are things to do.:-D
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
So after two rounds of flooding in the basement, the children still have not gotten the hint to pick their things up. The eldest is out of town this weekend with a friend and I peak into her room and I can not see the floor. I pick up all her thing and bag them in trash bags. Set the bags on her bed. When she came home I made her go through all the bags and sort them and then put it all away, a process that did not take a whole hour.

They just did not manage to do anything with themselves last week...

SSSOOO dad cut the cable phone and computer this morning:-c.

And I woke them up at 7:15. No sence in burning daylight while there are things to do.:-D
You go Mom!
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
Bump....

So today I braved the back to school shopping trip with my daughter. Everything was fine until we went to get some jeans for her. We were in the dressing room and she had collected an armful of jeans in a size 6 which is one size larger than she wore last year. She tried them on and I wasn't really satisfied with the way they were fitting so I told her to go get some 8s to try on to see if they fit better. To my surprise the tears starting flowing and she was all choked up. I was shocked so I asked her what was wrong and she wouldn't answer. So I started questioning her and it finally came out that she thought that because she needed an 8 that she was fat!

I was speechless to say the very least and reassured her that she was nowhere near being fat (5'7" and 140) and that she was beautiful. She's just grown some curves and filled out in places which requires the next size up. How have any of you with girls dealt with this? (Do boys have the same problem?)
 

btrage

Cyburbian
Messages
6,423
Points
26
Bump....

So today I braved the back to school shopping trip with my daughter. Everything was fine until we went to get some jeans for her. We were in the dressing room and she had collected an armful of jeans in a size 6 which is one size larger than she wore last year. She tried them on and I wasn't really satisfied with the way they were fitting so I told her to go get some 8s to try on to see if they fit better. To my surprise the tears starting flowing and she was all choked up. I was shocked so I asked her what was wrong and she wouldn't answer. So I started questioning her and it finally came out that she thought that because she needed an 8 that she was fat!

I was speechless to say the very least and reassured her that she was nowhere near being fat (5'7" and 140) and that she was beautiful. She's just grown some curves and filled out in places which requires the next size up. How have any of you with girls dealt with this? (Do boys have the same problem?)
Please, as a father of two daugthers under the age of 5, I would also like some advanced advice on situations such as these!!!!!:-c Please Cyburbia, if you give me adivce now, I'll have approximately 10 years to prepare. :-|
 
Last edited:

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
What are these "children" you speak of?
They are these creature that come and inhabit your house.
They eat your food. Make messes that they say they never made. They ask for money. They feel like they have a god given right to gripe and complain.
Some days we don't know why we allow them to stay.
But somehow we are responsible for them and we have to cope, thus the reason for this thread!
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,422
Points
44
Kids and Money.

When the soon to be Mrs. Skis and I were in marriage prep classes, the question about teaching kids about money came up... as with most things relating to money, I we agreed that we like the Dave Ramsey Plan. Starting from an early age we will give our kids a salary for doing little tasks around the house. While many of them will be a ‘helping us’ task such as helping give the dog a bath, helping clear the table, or helping clean up their room, each task will have a set value. When they complete that task, it will be marked on a task board. At the end of the week, we (the entire family) will look at the task board and pay the kids.

From that point, they will put it in three clear jars. One will be spending (2/5 of income) one will be saving (2/5 of income), and one will be giving (1/5 of income). As they get older, the tasks will get more complex... (such as mowing the lawn)... and the values will increase.

When they want to spend money on something such as a toy or a trip, we will go to the spending jar... if it is empty, then the task list will grow.
 

mendelman

Unfrozen Caveman Planner
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,703
Points
42
Luckily, I don't have to worry about the logistics of returning my son. We're pretty happy with him and have decided to keep him.

Plus, I think I lost the receipt, anyways.



;) :-D
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
When the soon to be Mrs. Skis and I were in marriage prep classes, the question about teaching kids about money came up... as with most things relating to money, I we agreed that we like the Dave Ramsey Plan. Starting from an early age we will give our kids a salary for doing little tasks around the house. While many of them will be a ‘helping us’ task such as helping give the dog a bath, helping clear the table, or helping clean up their room, each task will have a set value. When they complete that task, it will be marked on a task board. At the end of the week, we (the entire family) will look at the task board and pay the kids.

From that point, they will put it in three clear jars. One will be spending (2/5 of income) one will be saving (2/5 of income), and one will be giving (1/5 of income). As they get older, the tasks will get more complex... (such as mowing the lawn)... and the values will increase.

When they want to spend money on something such as a toy or a trip, we will go to the spending jar... if it is empty, then the task list will grow.
You are going to pay your kid to do everything around the house? Aren't some things considered to be "household citizen" chores like keeping your room clean and picking up after yourself? Do you get paid for each and every little thing you do? Just curious. Paying for doing chores over and above what you should be doing seems to go a little further in equating work with earnings. The savings-charity-spending jar thing works pretty well from experience though.
 

arcplans

As Featured in "High Times"
Messages
6,453
Points
26
hey all

**Dealing with terrible 2's**
This forum has been great for planning questions, but now is time to divulge into my personal life. Mrs. CPSU and I are just having a whale of a time dealing with our daughter who just turned 2. I know she is going through the terrible 2s because whenever she doesn't get what she wants, she goes all dramatic on us, with a flop to the ground, hit her head and start balling, or flop in our arms and feel like a little fish our of water. Worse yet is the throwing, and the occasional hitting. Yes, we do punish her through time-outs, and the occasional pat on the tush when she really knows she is not suppose to be doing something as a last resort. My wife has begin raising the issue that i am not using a "firm" voice with her, but yelling at her, which i don't think i am, but could be because i am just frustrated and at witts end. Any advice? Did i mention my daughter is like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going with a whole heck of a lot of energy?
 
Last edited:

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
**Dealing with terrible 2's**
This forum has been great for planning questions, but now is time to divulge into my personal life. Mrs. CPSU and I are just having a whale of a time dealing with our daughter who just turned 2. I know she is going through the terrible 2s because whenever she doesn't get what she wants, she goes all dramatic on us, with a flop to the ground, hit her head and start balling, or flop in our arms and feel like a little fish our of water. Worse yet is the throwing, and the occasional hitting. Yes, we do punish her through time-outs, and the occasional pat on the tush when she really knows she is not suppose to be doing something as a last resort. My wife has begin raising the issue that i am not using a "firm" voice with her, but yelling at her, which i don't think i am, but could be because i am just frustrated and at witts end. Any advice? Did i mention my daughter is like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going with a whole heck of a lot of energy?
If only we could figure out how to harness the energy of toddlers! As far as the tantrums were concerned I only had to deal with a few and each time I just ignored her. Once she figured out she would get no attention whatsoever with that behavior it ended rather quickly. Saying no and then redirecting her from something she wasn't supposed to be doing/touching worked in our case but you have to be 100% consistent.
 

jmf

Cyburbian
Messages
594
Points
17
My daughter just turned 3 and I don't think she really gets time outs yet although she does understand that sometimes she (we) needs to have a little quiet time reading a book or doing a puzzle just to bring the energy down a level.

Our biggest success - CHOICES. We rarely ask/tell her to do something directly it is usually formed as a choice. For example, do you want to go to the toilet with mummy or papa? Do you want a fork or a spoon? Do you want to get out of the carseat by yourself or should mummy do it? Even "If you want a cookie, you have to eat your vegetables first." is a choice.

She feels like she is in control but the choices are limited to safe things and geared to what needs to be done. It is pretty easy to create choices.

I also limit taking her to stores where she may demand everything in sight and when we do go I rarely buy her anything. Before we go out, I tell her what errands we are doing and what exactly we are buying then I try to turn it into an adventure - who can find item X first? Then if she has behaved well I reward her with a trip to the library, playground or another favorite stop (currently a local farm that has minature horses).

As for the drama queen - don't react to her act although sometimes giggling and saying how silly she looks can work - but not always... Just make sure she is safe.

**Dealing with terrible 2's**
This forum has been great for planning questions, but now is time to divulge into my personal life. Mrs. CPSU and I are just having a whale of a time dealing with our daughter who just turned 2. I know she is going through the terrible 2s because whenever she doesn't get what she wants, she goes all dramatic on us, with a flop to the ground, hit her head and start balling, or flop in our arms and feel like a little fish our of water. Worse yet is the throwing, and the occasional hitting. Yes, we do punish her through time-outs, and the occasional pat on the tush when she really knows she is not suppose to be doing something as a last resort. My wife has begin raising the issue that i am not using a "firm" voice with her, but yelling at her, which i don't think i am, but could be because i am just frustrated and at witts end. Any advice? Did i mention my daughter is like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going with a whole heck of a lot of energy?
 

michaelskis

Cyburbian
Messages
19,422
Points
44
You are going to pay your kid to do everything around the house? Aren't some things considered to be "household citizen" chores like keeping your room clean and picking up after yourself? Do you get paid for each and every little thing you do? Just curious. Paying for doing chores over and above what you should be doing seems to go a little further in equating work with earnings. The savings-charity-spending jar thing works pretty well from experience though.
There will be some things that will be “typical household good citizen” things such as putting Landry away or putting dirty clothing in the hamper, making your bed, clearing your plate when you leave the table and typical day to day things. It would be more of the 1 or 2 times a week to a few times a month type of things that they would get paid for.

When I mention ‘Cleaning bedroom’ it is changing sheets, washing windows, dusting and that type of thing.

I think of it like this, (not sure if Dave would agree but here we go), every moment can be a teachable moment, and every task could be used as such. There are particular tasks that I agree should be done just as a good household citizen, but so many other tasks can be used to equate work and earnings. As an example, there are some tasks that I need to do every day as part of my job. If I go a long time without doing them, I run the risk of loosing my job.

For more information available in a kit form (includes Jars, stickers, and a task board) you can go to www.daveramsey.com


*I am no way affiliated nor paid by Dave Ramsey, his corporation, or anyone that he is affiliated. I just like his products and his message.
 
Messages
1,264
Points
22
You are going to pay your kid to do everything around the house? Aren't some things considered to be "household citizen" chores like keeping your room clean and picking up after yourself? Do you get paid for each and every little thing you do? Just curious. Paying for doing chores over and above what you should be doing seems to go a little further in equating work with earnings. The savings-charity-spending jar thing works pretty well from experience though.
I agree with you kjelsadek. However, I never got an allowance as a kid, and I am terrible with money. I'm getting better in my old age. I wanted to spend every red dime I had. I'm not as bad as my siblings, but I can do better. On the flipside, the Mrs. always got an allowance, and she is very good with being cheap. Oops I meant, frugal. She does have her moments though. My point is that you have to be exposed to and work for money so that you can appreciate its value and power.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
I agree with you kjelsadek. However, I never got an allowance as a kid, and I am terrible with money. I'm getting better in my old age. I wanted to spend every red dime I had. I'm not as bad as my siblings, but I can do better. On the flipside, the Mrs. always got an allowance, and she is very good with being cheap. Oops I meant, frugal. She does have her moments though. My point is that you have to be exposed to and work for money so that you can appreciate its value and power.
I didn't get an allowance either. We were lucky we had enough to have a roof, utilities, food, and basic clothing. I was always doing odd job work from the time I was 11 through babysitting, doing work for the super, picking berries, helping the old people where my grandma lived run errands, etc. until I was old enough to work at an hourly job. Then I contributed $150 to the rent and bought most of my own clothes, bought a bus pass rather than even think about a car, etc. My daughter doesn't have the opportunity to really do those things but she's pretty resourceful in offering to do extra things around the house for an asking price of a buck or two. This summer she's come to work with me every Friday and earned $20 for doing so. She ends up saving about 1/2 of it and for things like school clothes she has a fixed amount to spend, gets it in cash, but has to make a list of what she needs at a minimum and figure out how to buy it all. Same with school supplies....the kid knows how to coupon shop very well. As an incentive she gets to keep the difference she doesn't spend from the allocated budget.
 

btrage

Cyburbian
Messages
6,423
Points
26
As posted by btrage in a different thread...

Growing up, my mother never asked us kids to do the laundry and rarely asked us to the dishes and clean around the house. Us boys did help Dad with yardwork and projects around the house.

Now, as an adult, I tend to be a very clean and organized person and I am usually the one cleaning the kitchen, etc.

When my wife and her siblings were growing up they were asked to do everything around the house. As adults (with the exception of my wife...not sure how that happened) they are all very messy, disorganized people.

Although these are just two families, I've always found this comparison very interesting. I've come to the conclusion (at least in this case) that my siblings and I learned through the example of our parents, while my wife and her siblings grew to resent the chores that they were forced to do.

This leads me to wonder if children learn more by what they see us do, than by what we tell them to do.
 

wahday

Cyburbian
Messages
3,960
Points
23
When the soon to be Mrs. Skis and I were in marriage prep classes, the question about teaching kids about money came up... as with most things relating to money, I we agreed that we like the Dave Ramsey Plan. Starting from an early age we will give our kids a salary for doing little tasks around the house. While many of them will be a ‘helping us’ task such as helping give the dog a bath, helping clear the table, or helping clean up their room, each task will have a set value. When they complete that task, it will be marked on a task board. At the end of the week, we (the entire family) will look at the task board and pay the kids.

From that point, they will put it in three clear jars. One will be spending (2/5 of income) one will be saving (2/5 of income), and one will be giving (1/5 of income). As they get older, the tasks will get more complex... (such as mowing the lawn)... and the values will increase.

When they want to spend money on something such as a toy or a trip, we will go to the spending jar... if it is empty, then the task list will grow.
You should print this out and keep it for the day when you are trying to implement something like this, just so you can remind yourself of all the good ideas you might be able to pull off if you actually had any time to do them. I am amazed by all the things I said I would or wouldn't do with kids. But in reality, I threw it all out the window and started again from ground zero.

Lately, I have identified the parental rhetorical question phenomenon whereby children are asked questions that you either don't expect them to answer.

Like "What did I just say?" or "Where are you going with that fork?"

Its rather like the cop question. You know, "Can't you read, boy?" Is there really any answer that won't get you in more trouble.

I'm as guilty as the next person. I used to joke about the "what did I just say?" thing, and now its a regular part of my vocabulary.
 

btrage

Cyburbian
Messages
6,423
Points
26
You should print this out and keep it for the day when you are trying to implement something like this, just so you can remind yourself of all the good ideas you might be able to pull off if you actually had any time to do them. I am amazed by all the things I said I would or wouldn't do with kids. But in reality, I threw it all out the window and started again from ground zero.
I think this is a more valuable lesson for would-be parents to learn, rather than for them to "plan" how they are going to raise their children.

Not that rules and overall guidelines shouldn't be established, but it's ludicrous to think that there is a "one-size-fits-all" approach to parenting. Children are individual people just like their parents and each of them respond to different approaches and techniques.
 

otterpop

Cyburbian
Messages
6,655
Points
28
The other night we were in the car and my son was having a meltdown because he wasn't going to get his way. He screamed "You are making me so angry." Then pow the little b*****d sucker-punched me in the jaw while I was driving! :-{

I am thinking the karate classes probably weren't a good idea. He has a good punch for a six-year-old, though. :r:

We were only a few blocks from home at the time. Needless to say, the rest of his evening was pretty bad. He got the mother of all lectures (at an elevated decibel level), his allowance and all of his weekend priveleges taken away, no dinner and had to go straight to bed. The coming weekend is going to suck for him.

The next morning he was very sorry for his actions.

He really is a great kid 90 percent of the time. He needs to work on his impulse control, obviously.

Funny thing and it is fortunate is that having his priveleges taken away and losing his allowance wasn't what bothered him the most. It was having Papa mad at him. Not playing with him and not speaking to him made him very sad indeed. I must admit I worked that. Showed him my mad face :-{ for longer than I was really angry.

He was very happy when Papa had his happy face :) once again.
 

kjel

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
12,169
Points
34
The other night we were in the car and my son was having a meltdown because he wasn't going to get his way. He screamed "You are making me so angry." Then pow the little b*****d sucker-punched me in the jaw while I was driving! :-{

I am thinking the karate classes probably weren't a good idea. He has a good punch for a six-year-old, though. :r:

We were only a few blocks from home at the time. Needless to say, the rest of his evening was pretty bad. He got the mother of all lectures (at an elevated decibel level), his allowance and all of his weekend priveleges taken away, no dinner and had to go straight to bed. The coming weekend is going to suck for him.

The next morning he was very sorry for his actions.

He really is a great kid 90 percent of the time. He needs to work on his impulse control, obviously.

Funny thing and it is fortunate is that having his priveleges taken away and losing his allowance wasn't what bothered him the most. It was having Papa mad at him. Not playing with him and not speaking to him made him very sad indeed. I must admit I worked that. Showed him my mad face :-{ for longer than I was really angry.

He was very happy when Papa had his happy face :) once again.
I also have a "pleaser" who really doesn't respond to privileges being taken away, but it is sheer torture for her when I upset with her or refuse to allow her to do anything with me. I think you handled it well though. Perhaps a calm discussion after the storm has passed of why it's not ok to hit people even if you are angry would be in order. My SIL had this problem with her son who also studies karate, it reached it's pinnacle on Christmas Eve when he karate kicked his cousin twice after being warned to stop. We found him hiding under a bed upstairs and then he was removed to be chastised by his embarrassed father in the bathroom. He was pretty meek for the rest of the evening at the party.
 

Michele Zone

BANNED
Messages
7,657
Points
29
**Dealing with terrible 2's**
Yes, we do punish her through time-outs, and the occasional pat on the tush when she really knows she is not suppose to be doing something as a last resort. My wife has begin raising the issue that i am not using a "firm" voice with her, but yelling at her, which i don't think i am, but could be because i am just frustrated and at witts end. Any advice? Did i mention my daughter is like the energizer bunny who keeps going and going and going with a whole heck of a lot of energy?
I know it's a belated reply but the odds are good that you are still coping with this. Proviso: This isn't criticism of you. I am only sharing what worked for me in hopes that it is helpful to you.

I am not big on punishing kids. That's not to say there are never any "sticks" and all carrots around here, but I think the goal should be disciplining the children, not punishment. To me, discipline means giving them the opportunity to learn self-discipline with an eye on the long-term goal that raising kids is about preparing them to be effective adults who know how to handle themselves in this world. It's all too easy to forget that long term goal and just try to force the kid to "behave" in the here and now because their current behavior is inconvenient.

An example of the difference between punishment and discipline:

When my kids would fight about some video game they were playing, I took the game away and told them that games were supposed to be fun and if they were fighting over it, they weren't using it properly. I told them no game was worth harming their relationship with their brother or a friend who was visiting. So please play something else. They weren't being punished for fighting. Taking the game away was not intended to hurt their feelings, deprive them, or otherwise "punish". The game itself was the problem and it was being temporarily removed so the problem would end. They eventually learned to not get all wrapped around the axle about winning or losing a videogame.

In contrast, their father would take vidoegames away from them as punishment for other things they had done, completely unrelated to the games themselves. My kids never resented the things I did to intercede and stop problem behaviors. They did resent what their father did because it was clearly intended to simply cause them pain as a means to discourage things he didn't approve of.

As for tantrums per se, kids have all these big feelings and don't know how to cope with them or they blow a gasket over some other problem they cannot verbalize. Making a big deal of it tends to create problems. My youngest used to have tantrums. At some point, I realized it was because he is flat-footed and his feet would begin hurting if we did a lot of walking (like at the mall). When I realized what was causing the problems and made accommodations for this issue, the tantrums stopped. He had never been either punished or rewarded for the tantrums. His tantrums were treated like "small kids sometimes blow a gasket -- it's normal and no big deal and it's not like you see 20 year old's laying on the ground kicking and screaming". So when the source of his problem was resolved, the tantrums stopped because they had never been made into an issue. I think it is frightening for kids when parents act like a tantrum is a big deal. For some issues, it helps to make it a "child sized problem" and not signal that this is something the adult can't cope with, if that makes sense.

Or if they have learned they can manipulate the parents, they will certainly do that. If your sense of embarrassment or something is a means to hold you hostage, then you have given the child the power in the relationship. You can choose to take that power back.

I hope that helps. Good luck.
 

Jaxspra

Cyburbian
Messages
3,517
Points
24
My 9 year old is making me absolutely nuts. The kid loses EVERY friggin thing he touches; EVERYTHING. Then this morning I asked him if he had socks on and he said yes. I went to tie his shoe ( the right way, he had long strings hangin out drivin me crazy) and gee, guess what NO SOCKS....hgughughgu I asked him 2 times and he said yes then I asked if he was lying he said no....the kids is brilliant bookwise but no common sense or drive to do anything at all for himself. I have cleaned out and organized his room (yes with his help, trying to make it as organized as possible for him to keep his things together); I have put things in the hpus in specific places for him..anything I can do, I have done...I am at the end of my rope with him...he walks around in a daze half the time, pays no attention to anything other than the exact task at hand...des perfect in school, teachers love him; grandma sees none of this behaviour, just me....sending me over the edge.....

The youngest...perfect, never looses anything, never forgets anything, keeps all of his things in one spot and defiantely does not lie to mom....


On a positive note...both monsters are leaving to the lake this afternoon with my parents....whle weekend to myself :)
 

ofos

Vintage Cyburbian
Messages
8,278
Points
27
My 9 year old is making me absolutely nuts.
Easy there Mom. He's not doing it, you're driving yourself nuts. He's just being a 9 year old boy and probably isn't even aware of how frustrated you are. I had one like that but it was my youngest. When I coached soccer and hockey, we had kids just like that too. Usually made them be the goalie so they wouldn't get lost by running around. You just had to try to get them to wake up and focus when the ball/puck was coming their way. I was a single parent then too and know exactly how frustrated you are, how good the weekends without the kiddos are, and how you still miss them when they're not there.
 

luckless pedestrian

Super Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,507
Points
40
My 9 year old is making me absolutely nuts. The kid loses EVERY friggin thing he touches; EVERYTHING. Then this morning I asked him if he had socks on and he said yes. I went to tie his shoe ( the right way, he had long strings hangin out drivin me crazy) and gee, guess what NO SOCKS....hgughughgu I asked him 2 times and he said yes then I asked if he was lying he said no....the kids is brilliant bookwise but no common sense or drive to do anything at all for himself. I have cleaned out and organized his room (yes with his help, trying to make it as organized as possible for him to keep his things together); I have put things in the hpus in specific places for him..anything I can do, I have done...I am at the end of my rope with him...he walks around in a daze half the time, pays no attention to anything other than the exact task at hand...des perfect in school, teachers love him; grandma sees none of this behaviour, just me....sending me over the edge.....
wow, this is my 8.5 yo daughter to a tee - my 14 yo was like this too at this age and when she got to about 12, she started figuring it out - now she's a control freak about her stuff! :-|
 

Queen B

Cyburbian
Messages
3,179
Points
25
I don't really like children much from about 6-12. They know and understand some things but you just never know what they are going to grasp.
 

Jaxspra

Cyburbian
Messages
3,517
Points
24
Thanks for the responses, you are all correct, it is me that making myself nuts. I need to let him be a kid...thats really all there is to it. Sometimes (often) I probably expect too much out of him...I am excited about the weekend to myself (it truly is a weekend to myself because they are going to the lake with my parents. I know they are in THE best possible hands and I get to sleep in if I want to!!) but I will miss them terribly tommorrow morning, I alreayd know it...
Jacob and I just keep trying to refocus and organize...let me say he has been getting a BIT better, I think we just had a bad morning this morning and I vented a little too early...he is a good, GOOD boy 95% of the time.
 

cch

Cyburbian
Messages
1,436
Points
20
As for the terrible twos (I don't think my daughter has totally left them yet), the SuperNanny "naughty stool" technique really does work well for us.

But lately it has become appearant that she likes to frustrate me and get me upset with her, just so that then she can start behaving, and make me happy. She'll ask "mommy, are you happy now." And when I say yes she just beams. Maybe it is my fault for not being happy all of the time.

Now for my latest child-rearing issue... our little girl (just over 3 years old) has started telling my husband that she doesn't like him. He'll lean down to kiss her goodbye and she'll push him away and say "No. Don't kiss me. I don't like you!" When we tuck her in at night she says "No, mommy will stay and give hugs and kisses, but I want you to leave daddy!" He disciplines her the same I do, only his voice is probably a little scarier. He is always playful and sweet to her. He's really torn up about this, and as gone so far as to accuse me of turning her against him. He's desperate to figure out why she acts like this.

What say the throbbing brain? Any insight?
 

Planit

Cyburbian
Messages
11,889
Points
38
As for the terrible twos (I don't think my daughter has totally left them yet), the SuperNanny "naughty stool" technique really does work well for us.

But lately it has become appearant that she likes to frustrate me and get me upset with her, just so that then she can start behaving, and make me happy. She'll ask "mommy, are you happy now." And when I say yes she just beams. Maybe it is my fault for not being happy all of the time.

Now for my latest child-rearing issue... our little girl (just over 3 years old) has started telling my husband that she doesn't like him. He'll lean down to kiss her goodbye and she'll push him away and say "No. Don't kiss me. I don't like you!" When we tuck her in at night she says "No, mommy will stay and give hugs and kisses, but I want you to leave daddy!" He disciplines her the same I do, only his voice is probably a little scarier. He is always playful and sweet to her. He's really torn up about this, and as gone so far as to accuse me of turning her against him. He's desperate to figure out why she acts like this.

What say the throbbing brain? Any insight?
Wee P did the same with me for a little while, my response was always "I'll always love you" - it will go away soon, tell him not to sweat it...
 
Top