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The paranormal?

The Paranormal: Is it real?

  • It exists and I have seen, felt, channled, projected through it myself.

    Votes: 9 21.4%
  • I'm very open to the possibilty of a paranormal plane

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • I'm unsure, but I lean towards belief.

    Votes: 10 23.8%
  • I'm unsure, but I lean towards skepticism.

    Votes: 5 11.9%
  • I'm very skeptical.

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • No way. Pure rubbish. The Amazing Randy is correct.

    Votes: 6 14.3%
  • I have no opinion, and people like me better this way.

    Votes: 2 4.8%
  • See my opinion below:

    Votes: 1 2.4%

  • Total voters
    42

Jeff

Cyburbian
Messages
4,161
Points
27
Yes, I really do believe. 2 distinct occurences have happened to me, none of which I want to discuss. Sorry those who want to discuss.
 

Chet

Cyburbian Emeritus
Messages
10,623
Points
34
At some level, I have to believe. My middle niece, from ages 3-5 would carry on conversations with her great grandmother, who had died prior to the nieces birth. No one ever spoke in detail about the great grandsmother to her, and she would know very personal things that happened decades prior.
 
Messages
5,352
Points
31
If I didn't experience it for myself (as a young child), then I would have definitely said no.
 

The Irish One

Member
Messages
2,267
Points
25
Yes, It's hard to talk about this stuff without looking like a fool. I've tried with my family and some friends with no success. I've seen the throbing brain of Cyburbia, isn't that proof enough?
 

Richmond Jake

You can't fight in here. This is the War Room!
Messages
18,313
Points
44
No way...all that exists is what I can perceive with my six....er....five senses.
 

Tranplanner

maudit anglais
Messages
7,917
Points
36
Nope - sorry, don't believe in it. Not until I can bend people to my will by mere thought.

*now somebody bring me a beer*
 

Gedunker

Moderating
Staff member
Moderator
Messages
11,487
Points
41
This is a pretty interesting topic eG , I think you'll see some cool posts.

I voted "unsure/skeptical". I have experienced a sense of deja vu -- someone told me it was better defined as presque vu (sp?) where I felt I had experienced the conversation before the words were spoken.

I reason that occasionally the brain speeds up and processes just a slight bit faster and that throws us from our accustomed speed. I just don't know.
 

PlannerGirl

Cyburbian Plus
Messages
6,377
Points
29
All of the women in my family dream things that happen and we all just KNOW things with no idea how we should or could know.

The phone rings and we always know if its one of the other women and which one it is.

Its wayyy freaky
 

Repo Man

Cyburbian
Messages
2,549
Points
25
Never had anything paranormal happen to me or anyone I know, so I am not a believer.
 
Messages
3,690
Points
27
I'm a definite believer, based on experiences that close friends and family have had. Rob's cousin is very devoutly Catholic and actually had a priest by their house to perform a cleansing because of some of the problems they'd been having with their new place.
 

biscuit

Cyburbian
Messages
3,904
Points
25
I'm a believer, based on numerous personal experiences I've had. I'll have to tell some stories once I get some more time.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
I believe and have a few experiences with the paranormal and other things not explainable. Been to a few haunted houses as well, also am currently living with resident ghost/spirit. Story anyone?
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,270
Points
30
Rumpy Tuna said:
I believe and have a few experiences with the paranormal and other things not explainable.
UHH, brew, weed, acid?

I lean towards believing.
 

Tom R

Cyburbian
Messages
2,274
Points
25
BOO!

NFW

Come to think of it, my ex hasn't hit me up for $ recently....Could be..........
 

Zoning Goddess

Cyburbian
Messages
13,852
Points
39
I'm sort of a believer. I think I have had a couple relevant experiences, one as a child and one as an adult. But I am not interested enough to actually hope I see ghosts or something like that.
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
Psychic tendencies also run in my family. It does not freak me out. It is perfectly normal.

But, having said that: I have spent way too much time hanging out on gifted boards, trying to understand and cope with my oldest child (whose IQ is "higher than the law allows"). Things he says and does sometimes are eery. But if I ask him about it, he has very ordinary explanations for it. So I have difficulty classifying such things because I can see a number of explanations, from various perspectives.

One example: he is extremely empathic, sensing the emotions of others around him to a degree that made it difficult for him to distinguish what came from him and what came from others when he was younger. Not that long ago, he announced that he is so empathic because he has a good sense of smell. That sounds a little nutty until you think about some of the scientific studies about the effects of pheromones, etc. And, heck, everyone knows that dogs can 'smell fear'. My son is a science geek extraordinaire and kindly explained a smidgeon of physics to me when he was 13. So I am sure he is well aware of research on such things.

And, hey, I have probably already been branded a "nut" (well before THIS post), so I will throw this out there: I have long been haunted by dreams (mostly dreams -- but sometimes 'visions') of The Future. It really tormented me. The above comment from my son helped cement an idea that has been gestating for the last year or so: I have concluded that the ability to 'see the future' is a form of "4th dimensional mental modeling".

Hmmm, let's see if I can explain what I mean: I have quite the track record for saying early on where some seemingly small event will lead. But, in my experience, it only is 'destined' to lead to 'the inevitable' if no one takes me seriously and, therefore, people continue on their merry way, in the same vein. I have found that when I have disturbing dreams of The Future and my upset causes me to change my mind about something, my dreams of The Future then change. So, I no longer believe in 'destiny'. Or, more accurately: "Destiny" is the destination you were heading towards but you don't have to end up there. You can always change your path. Always.

So, I think that a vision is a flash of insight into the most likely outcome, assuming that the situation or person stays on course and keeps doing what they've been doing. A lot of people are like robots and don't want to hear any suggestions to 'change their programming'. But, if you "listen", then a vision is not The Future, it is just a source of information that you can use to decide if you like the path you are on.

Hell, there is good evidence that the burning of witches closely coincides with both where they grew a specific grain (rye?) and with damp weather. That grain is prone to infestations of ergot if it is sufficiently damp -- which is the basis for a hallucinogen (LSD?). So, the latest theory is that people got branded 'witches' when they inadvertently digested a hallucinogen and began acting weird. A good friend who was brutally raped and beaten by the husband she was leaving (and who had intended to kill her) told me that "when his eyes stopped being black and turned blue again, that was when I knew he was sane enough for me to fast talk my way out of there. I can understand why they believed in demon possession." So I think that a lot of things which are definitely Real have several possible explanations. Or: It is only "magic" if you do not understand how it works.

Which is not to imply that "paranormal" events are "all in your head". So please do not take me wrong on that. I voted: Absolutely! I knew the gender, time of birth, and hair color of my first child 3 days before he was born. I have no 'logical' explanation for that one (yet!, lol).
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Currently I have a ghost that follows me from apt. to apt. Mainly it likes to hide stuff on me to keep me on my toes (poltergeist). At the moment it resides in the attic and on some nights you can hear it walking around. I also have some spirits that watch out for me when I'm outside or otherwise I would have had that lawsuit against the beer truck by now. If you ever see that thing in the corner of your eye behind you, you know somebody is watching you.
 

Cardinal

Cyburbian
Messages
10,080
Points
34
I have sometimes had an unusual feeling at times when I am in danger. By this I do not mean something like being in combat, but on perfectly normal days. On one occasion I was walking along though a Kansas field when I suddenly had a deep sense of caution. A dozen steps later I spotted a rattlesnake in exactly the spot I had planned to walk down into a ravine. How did I sense the danger that caused me to be cautious? Perhaps it was knowledge of the snake's favored habitat that made me realize the potential for danger. Then again, maybe it was some "sixth sense."

As to ghosts and the like, well, I'm not going to believe until I have some proof.
 

Jen

Cyburbian
Messages
1,704
Points
26
I am not sure, though I have had some coincidental confirmations of things I have predicted. LIke I just KNEW the Broncos were going to lose against the NE Patriots in the final seconds last week.

We used to have a boat lift on our dock that was difficult to use and I often complained that we should get rid of it, well once while directing venomous vibes towrds the dang thing wishing it would break while hubby was lifting the runabout onto it, the cable snapped, convincing him that yes we did not need a boat lift after all.

I have the good luck of hardly ever losing anything, I am able to find it again or it just "turns up" .Once lost something overboard in 20 ft of water in the middle of the lake and the item later washed up on our beach! Weird though i have dreams of finding a cache of cash but that never happened

Was due to give birth during a weekend when we had out of state guests in town, I reassured everyone that the baby would come once they were gone, probably on Wednesday. My baby was born on Wednesday.

Energy fields are all around us, how do we use them, can we influence those energy vibes with just our minds? What is the collective conscious. Aren't we reaching out to each other here beyond usning our keyboards. Don't we all get into each others heads a little - Do you believe the vibes we feel from reading the forums does effect the vibrational energy all around us - maybe reaching across distances?
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
While I remain quite skeptical, I'm inclined to believe that our subconcious mind can detect several things that we conciously can't detect.
One main reason of my skeptisim is because all of the fakes going around. People that explain psychic powers with fake information like "We only use 10% (and I've even heard 6%) of our brains", which is completly false. We use all our brain, but not at the same time.
Also, given the potenciality of the brain impluses to be altered by EMFs and chemicals, one could easily explain "ghosts", and it could also even be a product of self-suggestion. Remeber, schizophrenics can hear and(or) see things that don't exist, hence there is a posibility that ghosts may just be a temporary state of schizophrenia.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,270
Points
30
I predicted that I would fall down a muddy slick hill one time and it happened. I'm not sure if my premonition was due to subtle shifts in the earths electrical fields or my realization that I only had 6 left from a case. Anyway, I was a real mess when I got to the bottom. I looked like Belushi in Continental Divide.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
I lived in a house with ghosts during school in Mississippi. It was weird. She would walk down the hall to the bathroom late at night and one time she sat on my bed. Apparently she died in the house of old age and when the ambulance came to get her it was snowing and icing. The ambulance was parked on a hill and when they went to the street to put her in the ambulance the stretcher slide down the hill on the ice. Many people saw this ghost, so it was not weird.

I also dated a girl in college whose family lived in an antebellum home in southern Mississippi that was quite haunted. Every night household items would move, you could hear ghosts walk and on occasions they would fly out of the chimney.

There was also a building at OLE MISS that was supposed to have ghosts, but I never saw those.

I guess there are a lot of ghosts in Mississippi. 8-!
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
SkeLeton said:
Remeber, schizophrenics can hear and(or) see things that don't exist, hence there is a posibility that ghosts may just be a temporary state of schizophrenia.
Thank you, SkeL, for providing me such an excellent excuse for saying what I have been mulling over this afternoon:

I, too, hear voices that other people don't hear. No, I am not saying what you think I am saying: I am saying that deaf people don't hear voices at all, or any other noises. Why don't all the deaf people band together and have us folks all declared nuts for imagining that we can communicate using some unseen thing called "sound waves"?

No one has EVER seen an atom either. NO ONE. All those drawings of atoms are mental models -- what someone imagined atoms as 'looking like' based on experiments and such -- and, mostly, on their observations and conclusions (that stuff in their heads -- not terribly different from the voices in the head of a schizophrenic, perhaps). So there are lots more folks who have seen ghosts, God, etc, than have ever seen Atoms. Why is a belief in this unseen thing called an 'atom' a mark of education and intelligence and not paranoid delusion or some such?

Carrier pigeons navigate by sensing, um -- what do they sense? Magnetic fields? Is that right? I can't do that. Should I say the track record of carrier pigeons is all wild good luck? Mere coincidence? Or even Paranormal?!!

And we make pictures of people's bones with some unseen force called "x-rays".

I have a god-awful big ego and my friends bust my chops for it all the time. But my ego is not sufficiently big so as to think that A) I am all knowing and if it is outside my vast 38 years of experience, it cannot have possibly been Real and True in the billions of years that the universe has existed or B) that just because we do not, as yet, have a good explanation or understanding of something, it should be dismissed as 'crazy'. They dismissed Galileo as crazy and put him in jail for his nutty claim that the earth revolved around the Sun. And a few doctors suggested that there was nothing physically wrong with me but a good psychiatrist would be extremely useful. I compared the 15 minutes that such brilliant doctors had known me to the many years I had suffered medical problems and decided to keep up my insane claim that, really, there IS something MEDICALLY wrong, not something MENTALLY wrong with me.

I cannot explain all of my experiences. So what? That does not mean I hallucinated it all. I have talked to people who explained my experiences to me in terms of Meyers-Briggs Personality Type. I have had people explain my experiences to me in spiritual terms that I don't even have a label for. I have had people explain my experiences to me from a physiological perspective in terms of subtle brain chemistry. I have found value in all of those explanations -- nor do I see any contradiction in accepting ALL of them as valid, just different ways of looking at it -- the way you can measure both someone's height and their weight: measuring their weight does not prove that "height" is some imaginary load of crap to be dismissed as the product of a deranged mind.

Anyway, I am not meaning to offend or 'stomp' anyone. Just tossing out my meanderings.
 

SkeLeton

Cyburbian
Messages
4,853
Points
26
hearing or seeing things that can't be physically measured isn't completly insane, MZ. I'm just saying that things might be just some neurotransmitors gone wild.
Carrier pidgeons have an acute sense of direction, that's their guidance.

MZ... I have never seen air, yet I know it exists. Atoms exist because they can be sensed electronically. And the configuration of the structure follows patterns that are scattered all over the universe.

I predicted that I would fall down a muddy slick hill one time and it happened.
Budgie...I believe that predictions or premonitions may be things our subconciuos mind detects things beyond our concious senses (or are you conciously aware of the CO2 level in your blood?), you "predicted" that you would fall, because your subconcious was fully aware that there were high chances that you'd slide in that slick hill. You imagined that you'd fall and you subconciously conditioned yourself to it.
 

Rumpy Tunanator

Cyburbian
Messages
4,473
Points
25
Michele Zone said:
I, too, hear voices that other people don't hear. No, I am not saying what you think I am saying:
Join the club already, PWHTA -People Who Hear Things Association. Membership is on the rise.
 

B'lieve

Cyburbian
Messages
219
Points
9
Actually, Skel, MZ was right, carrier pigeons do use, to some extent, Earth's magnetic fields (in combination with other available cues, like the position of the sun in the sky and landmarks), as do a number of other animals, like swordfish, of all things; there are tiny pieces of magnetite, which I believe contain iron and a few other minerals common in the diets of many creatures, that accumulate in certain parts of their brains.

MZ, Skel came close to what's probably a big part of your son's tremendous empathy: subconscious sensing of cues. Many people are better at reading other people's emotions based on a million little cues from body language, tone of voice, etc. than many other people can; these cues, especially in skilled readers of emotion, are usually processed very quickly with little or no conscious effort or direction. Smell (pheremones) is probably one of those cues, and certainly one of the senses that involves the least amount of conscious control. Now, what you do with that information varies a lot based on your personality and values and the situation; you say your son is empathic, which suggests to me that he tends to not only sense people's emotions but also responds to them in a helpful/comforting way, while a very different person might use such sensitivity to others' emotions to manipulate people.

Back to the original questions, I've had a few odd experiences that I haven't yet been able to explain, maybe never will, and don't want to speculate about. I tend to be skeptical about most claims, but admit that there are may be some things we will not/cannot explain/understand.
 

Budgie

Cyburbian
Messages
5,270
Points
30
SkeLeton said:
Budgie...I believe that predictions or premonitions may be things our subconciuos mind detects things beyond our concious senses (or are you conciously aware of the CO2 level in your blood?), you "predicted" that you would fall, because your subconcious was fully aware that there were high chances that you'd slide in that slick hill. You imagined that you'd fall and you subconciously conditioned yourself to it.
No, actually I was conciously aware of the alcohol in my blood. It was the 18 beers I had before I went for the big slide. As I mentioned I only had 6 out of a case left.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
It is pretty amazing to see option one winning here. (even though that is the option I voted for as well). What does that say, that the majority believes based on personal experience???
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
Let me try this again.

B'lieve: I used my child's empathy as an example precisely because he tends to have rather poor social skills. I have good reason to believe he has a mild form of Autism marked by the inability to learn social skills by 'osmosis'. He learns social skills by having them explained to him. His uncanny ability to know what people are feeling combined with his bafflement about social behavior made his awareness of the emotions around him seem 'psychic' or 'paranormal'. But, now that he is old enough to think about how he works and draw conclusions based on his substantial scientific knowledge base, his explanation of his own 'paranormal' awareness is very logical and scientific and has a physical basis. His explanation makes a lot of sense to me and I think he is right.

Anecdotally, people of extremely high IQ seem to be much more likely to have psychic sensitivity. And my son does have a track record that fits with that. I do not doubt that he is "psychic". BUT: his explanation of his eery insights is often not "psychic" at all. His explanation is usually: a large knowledge base, supersensitive observation of certain things that most folks pay no attention to (which would be the kind of thing SkeL is describing as 'subconcious awareness'), and lightening fast analytic ability. Getting a glimpse into his subjective assessment of how he knows 'the unknowable' has been extremely eye-opening for me and has helped rid me of things which had been a problem for me. I have come to understand some of my own bizarre experiences from a different paradigm -- one which makes it explainable and non-threatening and interesting and not something to fear, or be freaked out about, and so on.

My mother grew up in a war zone and dropped out of school at age 13 to take care of her dying mother. She is a very brilliant woman but not educated and was quite traumatized by her childhood. She has always classified her own uncanny insights as 'psychic'. Like many very smart people who are not educated, she confuses education with intelligence and, therefore, figures she isn't all that smart based on her lack of formal education. But she just KNOWS stuff that she cannot explain. She tends to explain it in very superstitious terms and it seems like a personal boogie-man for her -- a monkey on her back which she has never completely escaped. (However, she is now old enough to just be disgusted at the Stupidity of anyone younger than her and that has helped her quit being so weird about the fact that she is not educated but just knows so much more than most people.)

I took that legacy with me -- of having more than normal insight and attributing it to 'the paranormal' -- even though I was in gifted programs and graduated high school with academic honors. This paradigm was a monkey on my back which haunted me. I very carefully avoided passing this family legacy on to my son, who was raised without any particular belief system and was encouraged to figure out for himself how he thinks the world works. I now have more than 5 years of college, some of it at the graduate level (in spite of not having my bachelor's yet, sigh). I am his primary teacher and I have been for some years now. We have studied physics, statistics, conceptual calculus, and other rather esoteric perspective on how things work and how to think about them. So, he is a person without much in the way of 'brainwashing' as to what he is "supposed to" believe (in terms of 'religion', et al) and a strong grounding in critical thinking. He tends to laugh at my 'silly' ideas about things I cannot readily explain and kindly grace me with his explanation, while politely refraining from stating his obvious opinion that "any idiot knows that, mom!". lol. It is very humbling to raise a child with a higher IQ than you have. lol.

I still believe in ghosts, telepathy, faith healing, etc. But I refrain from jumping to conclusions that some 'weird' experience must be 'paranormal' -- or that something 'paranormal' must be the product of a deranged mind, or whatever. I am much slower these days to judge things I cannot readily explain and much more open to seeking out feedback from people who do not see it at all the way I would see it but who are able to share their viewpoint without insisting that I must be wrong, crazy, full of crap, and so on.

SkeL, I was not trying to say that you think that if it cannot be measured, the person must be nuts. My point was about mental models and how they evolve and that I am no longer willing to 'religiously' and 'faithfully' believe that the mental models which are presently accepted are 'the best' ones. My assumption is that we will continue to evolve in our understanding of such things and our quaint categories of 'atoms', 'molecules', etc may, someday, be looked upon in a manner similar to how we look back on the concept of 'the four humours' which were thought to make up the human body. Look at early movies with dinosaurs in them. They assembled the skeletons all wrong and had T-Rex standing upright, with his tail dragging the ground -- modeled after human posture. More recent models are based on our increased understanding of biology and physics and how bodies move and how various biological designs function in nature. A long tail in a lizard is often used to balance the forebody, with the two legs like the fulcrum. This fact is reflected in the way T-Rex is shown in Jurassic Park, et al.

For me, it was a very powerful personal lesson that I spent the first 36 years of my life being plastered with all kinds of negative labels judging my behavior as 'crazy', 'difficult', etc. I was about 32 years old before science had a name for my medical condition -- so, for mos of my life, there simply wasn't a good paradigm for what I was experiencing, which happened to be very real but 'wierd' and "unexplainable". I was raised by extremely old fashioned parents. In fact, my father is only one year younger than my husband's grandmother who lives in the same town. So I was raised with extremely backwards ideas about the role of women and I spent many years trying to avoid disagreeing with someone. In stark contrast, I was also raised by people with a scathing and derisive attitude about how 'stupid' people are. The months that I spent politely disagreeing with the doctors until I met one who was unusually brilliant and unusually current in his knowledge of the latest research -- and who, therefore, ordered 2 dozen tests when he didn't immediately know the answer -- were very hard for me. I could neither run from disagreeing with the doctors -- because agreeing with them would have cost me my life -- nor could I inform them as to what morons I thought they were -- because, again, utterly alienating and rejecting the medical community would have cost me my life. I was between a rock and a hard place. Which left me no place to go but 'up'.

So, when I finally did get a diagnosis and came to understand how cutting-edge my diagnosis was and how damn lucky I was to have gotten it, I quit feeling like all the doctors that didn't know what was wrong with me were 'stupid'. I still resent their assumption that I must be stupid or crazy because there could not be something medically wrong with me which they had not heard of. I still rail against such arrogance and the emotional abuse of me at their hands which it seemed to 'justify' in their minds. And I have gotten in the habit of railing at any paradigm -- such as the one for this poll -- which pits different viewpoints against one another under the assumption that if one is "right", then, clearly, the other MUST be "wrong". The doctors were not 'wrong'. They were making the best judgment they knew how to make based on their education, experience, and the mental models available to them. I certainly LOOKED 'crazy' at times, when I was under so much stress and bursting into tears and speaking of how I was concerned that I would die if they didn't figure out what was wrong. But I certainly was not wrong either, no matter how insane I appeared to a total stranger who didn't understand how sick I was and how sick I had been for a long time already. Sticking by my viewpoint that there had to be an explanation eventually did result in finding a better explanation for my problem than 'Gee, I can't find anything physically wrong. Would you like to speak with a shrink?'

Given all that -- as well as the long journey of figuring out my complex child who has multiple "differences" from the norm -- I find it impossible to dismiss anyone as simply 'crazy' just because, at present they, as individuals, or 'we', as a society, lack an adequate paradigm for describing, explaining, defining, etc, what is going on with them. I accept the fact that many things are explained inadequately and the mental model used to define it is not helpful in coping with it. Now that my medical problems have been 'named' and there is a medical model for understanding my weird eating habits and other behaviors, all my 'difficult', "lazy', 'crazy', "bitchy', and "uncooperative' behavior has been renamed "brilliant coping strategies in the face of an undiagnosed medical disorder". So, when faced with the Unexplained, I am curious as to what the explanation(s) might be and I am also curious as to how a person feels or otherwise subjectively experiences or reacts to something for which they lack a good paradigm or mental model. And I do not seek to 'judge' them.

Sorry for the length. I hope that makes my points clearer.
 
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tsc

Cyburbian
Messages
1,905
Points
23
Mike D. said:
Anyone have a "Guardian Angel" ? Or believe they do?
I like to think that I was blessed with a guardian angel who stays by my side in the form of an 80 pound hound dog.
 

H

Cyburbian
Messages
2,850
Points
24
Can I predict the future? Last night I dreamt that the VOLS had Miami on the ropes until the last minute when the ‘canes came back to win. :-( So do I have the foresight? I will let you know tomorrow after the game.

GO VOLS!!
 
Messages
7,649
Points
29
Mike D. said:
Anyone have a "Guardian Angel" ? Or believe they do?
I would not use that terminology. But, shortly before I moved to the Bay Area, I dreamed that San Francisco was a city all in white and that my life would be cleansed of many things here. Looking back on it, it was quite miraculous that I arrived here when I did:

I had already been quite ill for about a month when I arrived here. I went to the ER the very day I arrived and that began a whirlwind tour of seeing how many specialists I could either baffle or piss off. Five or 6 weeks later, my 10 weeks of chronic sinusitis turned to pneumonia.

I believe that one of the reasons I survived the pneumonia is because our last duty station was about 3000 feet above sea level. It took a few weeks for our bodies to adjust to the altitude. I have good reason to believe that living at the higher altitude increased my lung capacity. People who live at higher altitudes and then visit lower altitudes have a physical advantage and tend to find that they have increased energy levels. But the biggest gains are short-term. The body eventually begins to adapt the lower altitude and lose some of that advantage. The slight edge in lung functioning that I had from moving to the Bay Area -- which is just about at sea level -- may well have made the difference between life and death for me.

Additionally, there are only a dozen hospitals in the U.S. with a specialty clinic specifically for CF. I happen to live midway between two of them. There is also a research facility in either SF or Sacramento. Therefore, I am in a place which is uniquely rich in knowledge and research related to my obscure and recently discovered form of CF.

The hospital on the military base here -- which is an air base and my husband is army, so that is weird to begin with -- is the largest military hospital I have personally seen. It is a regional facility serving 8 states and also a teaching hospital with ties to the teaching program at UC Davis Medical Center, which is where my specialist works.

The allergist that ordered the test which ID'd my condition had previously worked in a hospital in Chicago -- one of the 12 hospitals with a CF unit -- and did not consider this hospital to be all that big (people get lost in it and the longest hall is 1/4 mile long -- the damn thing has its own personal gate onto the base, something I have also never before seen).

I could go on, but the short version is that so many things had to come together just right in order for me to get a diagnosis a mere 4 years after genetic research finally named my medical condition that you either have to believe 'someone was looking out for me' or you have to believe it was the wildest stroke of luck imaginable. I am inclined to believe the former, based in part on the dreams I had before I moved here.
 

Trail Nazi

Cyburbian
Messages
2,779
Points
24
I have had a number of dreams where I am speaking with the deceased - people from my family and not, including those I have not had a relationship with at all. I know that they were there because I so rarely remember my dreams unless they are nightmares.
 

The Irish One

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I have had a number of dreams where I am speaking with the deceased
I have a recurring situation in my dreams. I meet n old friend who died a few years back and he's calling me to come over by him. When I realize it's him, I always tell him that he's dead and I ignore him. This isn't paranormal, it's just dealing with the death of a good friend which takes years. God Bless Clay.
 

Jeff

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So is it too crazy if I believe one of my deceased roomates and firend is reincarnated as my dog?
 

Richmond Jake

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Mike D. said:
So is it too crazy if I believe one of my deceased roomates and firend is reincarnated as my dog?
It isn't too crazy, only mildly demented.
 
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The Irish One said:
I have a recurring situation in my dreams. I meet n old friend who died a few years back and he's calling me to come over by him. When I realize it's him, I always tell him that he's dead and I ignore him. This isn't paranormal, it's just dealing with the death of a good friend which takes years. God Bless Clay. [/QUOTE

Irish, it is fear of this kind of slap that is the reason so many people -- you included -- have said "Yes I believe. No, I do not want to give details." I would like to politely remind you that your view of what dreams are does not happen to be Absolute Truth anymore than Trail Nazi's view is.

I was tempted to title this post "Lead me not into temptation", tell you about the hellacious week I have had and ask you to not give me any excuse to shred you as an amusing distraction from my own misery. :) But I didn't think you would find the humor in it -- and I figured you would miss my actual point that I think it is extremely disrespectful to tell someone they have no right to believe what they believe -- as if the thoughts in your head are more valid than the thoughts in their head -- if you don't happen to see it the same way.

I have taken a couple of psych classes and spent way too much time hanging out with folks with degrees in it. Psychology does not know what the purpose of dreams happens to be. They are a tad difficult to record directly. You kind of have to go on the unreliable 'say so' of subjects you interview. They have studied dreams indirectly, in terms of studying brain wave patterns and which ones are associated with REM sleep, etc. They can tell us now that REM sleep is when we dream. Perhaps the 'rapid eye movement' of REM sleep is like the mind's eye watching the drama unfold. Or perhaps it is some nervous twitch. Who knows?

Generally speaking, modern science views dreams as 'the subconcious' speaking. I, personally, wonder if it is 'the left brain speaking to the right brain'. I also have difficulty with the amorphous 'conscious', 'subconcious' and 'supraconcious' classifications of modern science (aka "psychology"). I do not see why that is so much more respectable than more traditional views of 'a higher self' (which seems like it would correspond to the supraconscious), and so forth. My subjective experience of dreams and such makes me feel that the Shamanistic view of things is more accurate: that our minds and souls have 'architecture' and you are genuinely wandering around within 'the house' of your soul and mind when you sleep.
 

The Irish One

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Irish, it is fear of this kind of slap
I'll just stop you there and let you know I was speaking for myself and if you'd like to show me the part I was disrespectful, please do. I gave one single dream account and what it means to me and you think I'm disrespecting trail nazi and an unspecified shamanistic view of dreams. I don't imply any such thing in my post but, if you thought I had Why would you be so aggressive to say something like this

I was tempted to title this post "Lead me not into temptation", tell you about the hellacious week I have had and ask you to not give me any excuse to shred you as an amusing distraction from my own misery.
and not inquire with me, cause you do seem offended.

Edit: Imean a pm when I say inquire.
 
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The Irish One said:
I'll just stop you there and let you know I was speaking for myself and if you'd like to show me the part I was disrespectful, please do. I gave one single dream account and what it means to me and you think I'm disrespecting trail nazi and an unspecified shamanistic view of dreams. I don't imply any such thing in my post but, if you thought I had Why would you be so aggressive to say something like this

and not inquire with me, cause you do seem offended.

Edit: Imean a pm when I say inquire.
Perhaps I mistook it. It seemed like a rebuttal, given the similarity of the dream content, the "timing" (in that it came right after her post), and your general-sounding statement that there was nothing paranormal about it. That last item sounded to me like a sweeping dismissal that any dreams of the dead – or any dreams at all – are or could be paranormal.

When dealing with ‘delicate’ subjects, where people have stated repeatedly they are reluctant to discuss it, subtle implications and assumptions can quickly bring a conversation to a halt. You do not have to directly dismiss someone to shut them up when they already are on shaky ground. In fact, a subtle attack is often more effective because they cannot ‘defend’ themselves if there was no ‘attack’: hints, innuendo, and insinuation are far harder to fight than an outright attack. If they respond to it, one can always claim: “I never said that. You are reading in crap that isn’t there. And, god, you are so paranoid.”

I did notice that the conversation seemed to peter-out after your seemingly dismissive comments and I felt that it might be worthwhile to comment on it openly. Perhaps the conversation had simply already run its course and your comment coming near the end was not causative but merely coincidental. Asking you privately would have clarified your meaning only for me but it would have no potential to clear the air if others mistook your comments in the same way I did. That is why I chose to comment publicly – but apparently not nearly as diplomatically as I intended because the comments you have labeled ‘aggressive’ were meant to be humorous and I stated that in my post. Granted, it is dark humor but it was not intended as an attack.
 

giff57

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I had a college prof that put it this way. "if you believe in God then you have to believe in th other.....they are in the same plane of existance.

I have had several unexplainable events as well.
 
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