This is sad and disturbing

[PlannerGirl]

Ok this is from the paper in Greensboro NC, I used to live there so read it online daily-this gives you some idea the mind set.

http://www.newsandrecord.com/news/local/gso/website27rk.htm

So very disturbing...

 

[Downtown]

You've got to be kidding me! The people running that website sound like morons. sigh.

 

[PlannerGirl]

Im flabergasted that the local GOP folks would knowingly let that stand for "months". Islam nor any major religious group is about hate-not anymore than the Catholics and the crusades.

*sigh*

Bush is all up in arms about Iraq and we have a much larger problem with N Korea brewing.

 

[Chet]

Narrow Minded Southerners! Oh wait - that was almost as bad!

Seriously - It's on par with Senator Lott as far as I'm concerned.

 

[el Guapo]

I'll bite.

While it is obviously wrong to place that on their website - I know a bunch of Moslems personally and I am truly underwhelmed by their uniformly meager outpouring of support on a variety of issues that all humanity is dealing with. Somebody had to say it. Now I'm off to Al Jazeera to apologize!

 

[El Feo]

And I'll bite on the Bush-baiting.

Bush is all up in arms about Iraq and we have a much larger problem with N Korea brewing.

North Korea=nuclear power run by doddering madman. (Gee, thanks Bill J. Clinton and Jimmah Cahtah!)

Iraq=aspiring nuclear power run by doddering madman. (Gee, thanks useless Bush I and Colin Powell!)

IMHO, gotta make sure the horse that's in the barn's locked in there, before we go chasing after the one that's already out.

In other words, one rogue nation at a time. Though I have no doubt the world'll bitch incoherently when we deal with that one, too.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Typical Republican engaging in religion-baiting. Of course, Democrats are just as stupid when it comes to mixing religion and politics. But they aren't crass enough to put something like that on a website.

 

[gkmo62u]

I'll bite too

Are we going to deny that there are a great many of those who worship this religion do in fact hate us, the freedom's we stand for, and wish to end our way of life at any opportunity.

IMO that makes them evil.

Someone want to point out to me the Great Islamic Democracy?


I didn't think so.

 

[Dan]

Re: I'll bite too

Someone want to point out to me the Great Islamic Democracy?

Turkey.

 

[Chet]

Re: I'll bite too

Someone want to point out to me the Great Islamic Democracy?B]

Elbonia. Don't forget Elbonia.

 

[Downtown]

Re: I'll bite too

Are we going to deny that there are a great many of those who worship this religion do in fact hate us, the freedom's we stand for, and wish to end our way of life at any opportunity.

IMO that makes them evil.

Someone want to point out to me the Great Islamic Democracy?


I didn't think so.

George - There are people of every kind of creed and religion that hate us, our government and our way of life. Was it Pat Robertson, or one of his ilk, that said 9/11 was a punishment to the US for our immoral way of life? You can't just paint a broad brush against the muslims because of the radical and horrible actions an extremist group.

 

[PlannerGirl]

A vocal minority make things hell for a whole group of folks that by in large are not out to hate anyone.

if we blindly hate we are just as "guilty" as anyone else.

thats whats "sad"

 

[Chet]

Re: Re: I'll bite too

You can't just paint a broad brush against the muslims because of the radical and horrible actions an extremist group.

Agreed. You can't categorize the citizens of the USA as evil because of people like Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber, and Donald Rumsfeld.

 

[El Feo]

Re: Re: I'll bite too

Turkey.

Not to pick at nits, but Turkey is a democracy with a majority Islamic population, not an "Islamic democracy." Their 1996 elections caused a bit of a furor because though Turkey has traditionally been ardently and conspicuously secularist, self-proclaimed "Islamic traditionalists" of the Islamic Virtue Party (whose stated goal is imposition of sharia law) won 20% of the vote. Now, the Turkish courts have moved to shut the party down, and have had the ban upheld by the EU. They are SERIOUS about shielding the government from political Islam.

I think George's point is that there's no such thing as an "Islamic state" that's a democracy.

 

[gkmo62u]

Let me clarify before you throw me to the wolves.

Dan: Point taken on Turkey. My point obviously is that its not exactly a long list.

Kel/PG: At no point did I say I hate Muslims or believers of Islam. Do you remember after 9/11? Mass demonstrations in Syria, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, West Bank--thousands upon thousands of people celebrating the worst day in our history.

Is the radical element still "radical" when it represents more than a small number?

BTurk: Low blow on the Donald Rumsfeld thing. He may a other things, but evil? Don't think that's accurrate.

Sorry to be so cemented on this one, but no hoping for peace love and understanding will replace the facts: The dictatorial Islamic states of the middle east represent the single greatest threat to our way of life.

And by saying that, it does not mean I hate all Muslims.

 

[Mastiff]

Several websites I've read quote these passages to show that the Qu'ran does not believe in the things the "militant" Muslims do...

"Fight in the cause of Allah against those who fight you, but do not transgress limits. Allah does not love transgressors." (Quran 2:190)

"If they seek peace, then seek you peace. And trust in Allah for He is the One that heareth and knoweth all things." (Quran 8:61)

But if you put them in context, you might see it a bit different.

In Al Baqarah (2):

"O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is an alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom."

And there is life for you in retaliation, O men of understanding, that ye may ward off (evil). (Quran 2:178-179)


In Al Anfaal (8):

"And when those who disbelieve plot against thee to wound thee fatally, or to kill thee or to drive thee forth; they plot, but Allah plotteth; and Allah is the best of plotters." (Quran 8:30)

"And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do." (Quran 8:39)

And here is the verse before 61, about "seeking peace"...

"Make ready for them all thou canst of force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged." (Quran 8:60)

I guess it doesn't seem very clear to me. In fact, it reads like much of the Old Testament. Someone mentioned the Crusades, but would a Catholic today march to war on the orders of the Pope? And how many of you Baptists or Methodists would strap up with explosives and hop a plane because your pastor encouraged it?

Seems to me the "fundamentalists" of the western religions shoot doctors and bomb abortion clinics to save the unborn, but are generally spurned by reasonable people. It may simply be easier to gain influence over young, oppressed, poor men in middle eastern cultures... and explain that the Qu'ran expects them to kill people of the "evil empire".

 

[PlannerGirl]

update from web

Update from the News & Record website

http://www.newsandrecord.com/news/now/update27.htm

Seems they got some heat and took it down.

 

[Chet]

BTurk: Low blow on the Donald Rumsfeld thing. He may a other things, but evil? Don't think that's accurrate.

Really my point was that many people and associate our Country and the "American People" as evil because of the overall policies of the United States, and in his position, Mr. Rumsfeld is the figurehead that mouths those policies. My point was to suport Kel's statements that , You can't just paint a broad brush against the muslims because of the radical and horrible actions an extremist group. The same can be said for the American People. To those that support terrorism against the USA, we are the extremists!

 

[Chet]

But if you put them in context, you might see it a bit different.

Mastiff - the same can be done with The Bible!

 

[Mastiff]

Mastiff said: I guess it doesn't seem very clear to me. In fact, it reads like much of the Old Testament.

Bturk said: Mastiff - the same can be done with The Bible!

Mastiff says: Duh!


P.S. I love the link...

 

[gkmo62u]

I see everybody's point.

I am just trying to prevent us from going down Moral Relativism boulevard. Who cares if "they" think we are extremists. We are not, we are right, and so is our way of life, defined by freedom and liberty.

We should not apologize ever for being Right.

Grouping Rumsfeld with the Unabomber and Tim McVeigh is just wrong.

I gotta run, everybody, good discussion.

I won't be in the office next week.

Have a safe New years.

 

[Chet]

Mastiff said: I guess it doesn't seem very clear to me. In fact, it reads like much of the Old Testament.

Bturk said: Mastiff - the same can be done with The Bible!

Mastiff says: Duh!


P.S. I love the link...

OOOPS- When I edited your quote I grabbed the wrong sentence. My bad...

 

[The Irish One]

Bin Laden did what he did because our military is on holy soil and Saudi gov. is a a US puppet. The whole kill America crew from arabia could care less if we watch porn all day and shoot up heroin, actually they would be very approving. Bin Laden's war is one of nationalistic purposes and of course Pan- Wahabiism for then Arabian peninsula.

 

[Mastiff]

OOOPS- When I edited your quote I grabbed the wrong sentence. My bad...

Hehehe... Just funnin' with ya.

 

[Wannaplan?]

The dictatorial Islamic states of the middle east represent the single greatest threat to our way of life.

Didn't the proud leaders of the U S of A say the same thing about communism at one point prior to 1989?

 

[Wannaplan?]

The Real Axis of Evil

Agreed. You can't categorize the citizens of the USA as evil because of people like Timothy McVeigh, the Unabomber, and Donald Rumsfeld.

Some leftists think the real Axis of Evil is Bush-Cheney-Rumsfield-Rice.

 

[Mastiff]

The whole kill America crew from arabia could care less if we watch porn all day...

Well, Bturk is safe!

Actually, TIO, I agree to some extent. I'm not exactly sure where they would draw the line on what they consider American imperialism. They might then turn toward Isreal, bases in Turkey, U.N. in Iraq... You get my point.

If you want to put it in terms of the U.S., how did we react when the U.S.S.R. decided to place missles in Cuba? Or even another country helping a polynesian movement to recoup Hawai`i?

But in my opinion, we have the power to have those bases, and we consider the Saudis an ally, and bin Laden can kiss my ass. I want him dead for his actions, and I'd lay waste to whatever country hides him to get it done. That is not, however, a reason to decry the entire Islamic religion.

 

[El Feo]

Didn't the proud leaders of the U S of A say the same thing about communism at one point prior to 1989?

Yep, and they were right, then.

 

[Chet]

COVERT ANTI MUSLIM OPERATION SSSHHHH!

I just heard on NPR that the CIA is secretly sending thousands of the WWJD Thongs to the wives of extremist Muslims:

 

[Mastiff]

LOL

I just heard on NPR that the CIA is secretly sending thousands of the WWJD Thongs to the wives of extremist Muslims:

Imagine finding one of those on a girl you picked up at a bar...

"Hmmm... Well, that's out. And, erm, THAT is definately out... I suppose I could... Mmmm... no, guess not. Say honey, can we turn off the lights?"

 

[Chet]

Mastiff, then she would crawl into bed wearing one of these too:

 

[Mastiff]

I like that better...

Has this thread been hijacked, or WHAT?

 

[Chet]

Has this thread been hijacked, or WHAT?

Hijacked, beaten with a stick, left for dead.

 

[Habanero]

BTurk: Low blow on the Donald Rumsfeld thing. He may a other things, but evil? Don't think that's accurrate.

Then can you explain THIS?!?!























































































Rumsfeld hex on you!!

 

[el Guapo]

Didn't the proud leaders of the U S of A say the same thing about communism at one point prior to 1989?

Communisim was/is a threat. You don't agree?

 

[Wannaplan?]

Yep, and they were right, then.

Not exactly.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Communisim was/is a threat. You don't agree?

Not exactly.

 

[El Feo]

Not exactly.

I, along with millions of Stalin's, Pol Pot's, and Mao's victims will have to agree to disagree with you.

 

[el Guapo]

Beaner,
Please tell us more. How was the Red Menace not such a menace?

 

[Tranplanner]

Interesting take on the subject of communism

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1489165

 

[El Feo]

Interesting take on the subject of communism

http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=1489165

Interesting piece. Marxism as faith sums it up nicely - but thankfully, hope never triumphs over reality.

 

[Habanero]

I think, in theory, communisim could've worked. However, it didn't- in real life it left people hungry and in poverty, and the select few fat and happy.

It was supposed to be "the real appropriation of the human essence by and for man... the complete return of man to himself as a social being..." (Economic and Philosophical Manuscripts of 1844)

I went to Russia for a month in the early 90s, right before Communim fell. It was sad, it was horrible that a country could treat it's people in that manner. It was absolution. It was espionage. It was, and is, evil. They say it's for the greater good- to have everyone participate in a way they can, to have everyone help each other out. I saw a lot of people that couldn't care if they did the job or not, they were getting paid either way, and they weren't being paid enough for it at that. If they did make any money the mafia would threaten them and/or take it. Anyone who owed a car was also paying the mafia for the "right" to drive the car.

It only worked on paper.

 

[The Irish One]

People say communism is a threat but then I direct them to the DPRK

Unless they're not toally brainwashed by Uncle Sam's Capitalism and Imperialistic evil doing, then we all agree to praise the great leader who works hard for all the masses. After this praise, we feel good and great joy for the betterment of all people.

 

[The Irish One]

meritocracy baby, that's all I have to say. We're not all equal in ability.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Beaner,
Please tell us more. How was the Red Menace not such a menace?

Well, I would make a distinction between communist countries with nuclear weapons and communist countries without nuclear weapons. I think the issue has more to do with nuclear capabilities than an economic system. As we discovered in 1989 and in the early 1990's, communism, as an economic system, is, was, and always will be a failure. The free markets are superior, no question about it. But mix in megalomaniacal leaders and nuclear weapons with communist ambitions, then yes, that is a threat.

As an economic system, communism was never a threat to our way of life.

 

[Wannaplan?]

I, along with millions of Stalin's, Pol Pot's, and Mao's victims will have to agree to disagree with you.

Communism has nothing to do with that. Any leader can kill and persecute its population, regardless of economic institutions. History has a long list of worldwide psychotic leaders who have engaged in mass murders, many who killed before Das Kapital was ever published.

 

[el Guapo]

As an economic system, communism was never a threat to our way of life.

I have a little problem with the enslavement aspects of our Red buddies. Show me the commie country that allowed all its people the right of free travel and encouraged open politics please. Enslavement in any form is a threat to all free people. I would argue we (the free nations) have a moral imperative to liberate the North Koreans from their government. Nukes have nothing to do with it, other than to make the problem a level of magnitude more difficult.

Better Dead than Red!

 

[El Feo]

Communism has nothing to do with that. Any leader can kill and persecute its population, regardless of economic institutions. History has a long list of worldwide psychotic leaders who have engaged in mass murders, many who killed before Das Kapital was ever published.

Sorry, beaner, you're not getting off the hook nearly that easily - we weren't talking about before Das Kapital (1989, remember), so that straw man won't work. We were talking about communism and the Cold War, and their threat to the way of life of free men. And in the mid-to-late 20th Century, the communists were the only game in town when it came to slaughter at such magnitude. History will judge that to this point, nobody's been as good at it as the communists were - even better than fascist Hitler - and ideology had everything to do with it.

 

[Wannaplan?]

Sorry, beaner, you're not getting off the hook nearly that easily - we weren't talking about before Das Kapital (1989, remember), so that straw man won't work. We were talking about communism and the Cold War, and their threat to the way of life of free men. And in the mid-to-late 20th Century, the communists were the only game in town when it came to slaughter at such magnitude. History will judge that to this point, nobody's been as good at it as the communists were - even better than fascist Hitler - and ideology had everything to do with it.

My straw man to your straw man.